Good old State of Connecticut...

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Short Wave Sportfishing

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:17:05 PM3/27/07
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One of my good friends just retired from the Merchant Marine after
twenty years as Captain of various tanker and super tanker vessels.

Since he retired, he purchased a boat (50 foot Hatteras convertible)
and went to see the DEP about getting the required Boating Operation
Certificate. He took all his Master's documents down to DEP HQ in
Lyme, CT and was refused - he has to take a boating course.

So I looked it up. As silly as this is, here is the official
statement on previous experience.

13 - I have a valid Coast Guard Operating License. Do I need the Safe
Boating Certificate to operate my boat?

If you have a current master, mate, or pilot license issued through
the Coast Guard, you do not need the Connecticut Safe Boating
Certificate to operate your boat. You must keep the valid license with
you at all times. You cannot use the valid Coast Guard License to
obtain your Connecticut Safe Boating Certificate. You would have to
take a boating course or provide us with proof that you have taken an
approved boating course to obtain a safe boating certificate.

Now I ask you - does that seem even reasonable? He doesn't want to
keep his documents with him at all times - not when a small, wallet
sized card is available from the state.

Freakin' unbelivable.

Tim

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:26:37 PM3/27/07
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I know this doesn't relate, but to me, it's like the kid who is
griping:

"The 'ol man says I can't drive the car untill I learn to drive, so's
hows I supposed to learn to drive the 'ol mans car unless he lets me
drive it?"

Message has been deleted

mjpierce5

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:47:01 PM3/27/07
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On Mar 27, 7:42 pm, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
> They also offer experienced boaters the opportunity to just take the test
> without the course. Big deal. He should just do what's required and stop whining
> like a spoiled baby. Not everything in life is fair or makes sense. Save the
> tears for something worth getting excited about. Does he have inoperable
> cancer?
>
> Jeez!
>
> CWM

Sounds like the State of CT wants its various assorted fees for taking
the test, issuing the documents, etc...
It also sounds like he could be teaching the course.

Michael

Vic Smith

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:47:52 PM3/27/07
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:17:05 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
<em...@swsports.org> wrote:

When I was merchant marine, the CG issued a laminated ID much like my
military ID. Had my rating (Fireman/Watertender) on the card. Still
have it buried in a drawer somewhere.
Seems they would issue the same for a master, mate or pilot, but maybe
they don't - then or now.

--Vic

Message has been deleted

Tim

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:23:35 PM3/27/07
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On Mar 27, 7:13 pm, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
> Big deal. Stop crying and do what you have to do. This is not worth whining
> about. If you can't deal with this minor thing, then you probably are NOT
> equipped to handle a boat safely.
>
> CWM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Charlie, I really don't think there's "crying" going on, but rather
laughing at the irony of the whole scenerio.

Here's a guy that is licensed to command major tonnage, but yet will
be requiered to take a safety course to pilot a boat that could
probably fit in the tankers galley.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Tim

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:05:49 AM3/28/07
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On Mar 28, 5:43 am, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
> He might find that little course beneficial. After so many years of piloting
> huge tankers, he might appreciate seeing things from a new perspective. He won't
> be in a huge tanker any longer, and some things may be a bit different.

>
> CWM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i won't disagree. You could have a point.

JoeSpareBedroom

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:42:35 AM3/28/07
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"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:ujcj039v32k34ucd7...@4ax.com...


> Big deal. Stop crying and do what you have to do. This is not worth
> whining
> about. If you can't deal with this minor thing, then you probably are NOT
> equipped to handle a boat safely.

Brilliant logic, and proof that special education is well worth the
investment.


JoeSpareBedroom

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Mar 28, 2007, 9:37:38 AM3/28/07
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"Short Wave Sportfishing" <em...@swsports.org> wrote in message
news:r09j035kk90jjuqin...@4ax.com...

Dear Governor Rell:
You are cordially invited to the next monthly meeting of the Deep Mud
Sportsman's Club. Each year, we choose a state law that we know to be
absurd, and pick a high ranking official to be lampooned in the press, many
members of which will be present at this gala event. We'll be discussing the
plight of a guy who, for the past 20 years has piloted ships half the size
of Fishers Island, but has to take a silly test to operate a 10 foot sailing
dinghy. Perhaps you'd like to attend! Bring a dish to pass. Dress is casual.
Please RSVP....
Billy Bob Stickbait
Event Coordinulator
203-555-CHUM


Short Wave Sportfishing

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Mar 28, 2007, 11:00:00 AM3/28/07
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On 27 Mar 2007 19:23:35 -0700, "Tim" <tsch...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Here's a guy that is licensed to command major tonnage, but yet will
>be requiered to take a safety course to pilot a boat that could
>probably fit in the tankers galley.

Interesting morning.

Let's just say that the reasoning is...well, arcane.

Plus it seems that while he's qualified to teach the class or a
USPS/USCG class without additional qualifications, he still need to
have taken either course or the State 8 hour course to qualify for the
certificate.

Addendum:

CT now offers a special endorsement to the Operater's Certificate
denoting that you can actually navigate with paper charts and such.
Minor thing actually, but I was curious if I qualified based on my
Master's License.

Turns out I don't - I have to take the course that I taught for three
years as a state instructor to qualify for the certificate or take the
USPS/USCG navigation course which is about three levels below my
qualifications.

Put another way, I can teach the course, but I don't qualify for the
certificate sticker unless I take the course and pass.

Don't you just love bureaucrats?

John H.

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Mar 28, 2007, 12:02:51 PM3/28/07
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LOL!
--
***** Hope your day is better than decent! *****

John H

John H.

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Mar 28, 2007, 12:12:52 PM3/28/07
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Had the same thing happen when trying to register a motorcycle at Fort
Belvoir. I had a Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) instructor's card, but
to register the bike I had to have either the basic rider's course or
advanced rider's course card. Both are well below the instructor level.

Eisboch

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Mar 28, 2007, 11:32:28 AM3/28/07
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"John H." <jher...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ar4l03t8abcnh7532...@4ax.com...

>
> Had the same thing happen when trying to register a motorcycle at Fort
> Belvoir. I had a Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) instructor's card, but
> to register the bike I had to have either the basic rider's course or
> advanced rider's course card. Both are well below the instructor level.


MA has a pretty good rule regarding new motorcycle license applicants. If
you successfully complete an approved course of instruction the registry
waives the requirements of a formal road test and issues the motorcycle
endorsement. My son did this a couple of years ago and although I've had a
motorcycle endorsement for many years (obtained the old fashioned way), I
decided to take the course with him, just for the fun of it. It was very
worthwhile and I'd recommend it to even the most seasoned of riders.

Eisboch


Wayne.B

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Mar 28, 2007, 11:56:23 AM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:00:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
<em...@swsports.org> wrote:

>Don't you just love bureaucrats?

To understand the reasoning you have to remember that it's all about
control.

Tim

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 12:10:05 PM3/28/07
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To me, though, a 50 ft. Hattie may as well be a "Tanker"


Charlie Morgan wrote:

Tim

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Mar 28, 2007, 12:14:14 PM3/28/07
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Do people that administer a drug/urine test, have to take one too?

John H.

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Mar 28, 2007, 1:29:24 PM3/28/07
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I'd recommend the MSF course to anyone who hasn't taken it. I took it with
my wife after many years of riding, and it *was* worthwhile.

Virginia DMV had a rep there for the last day, and he issued the motorcycle
endorsement to all the students who completed the course.

Chuck Gould

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Mar 28, 2007, 12:54:49 PM3/28/07
to

The CT law gives him a choice: He can carry his mater's certificate
with him or sit the exam and carry a card. He's exempt from carrying a
card as long as he carries his certificate. Sounds like the choice he
wants to make is "neither".

The law recognizes that as a master mariner he needn't demonstrate his
basic competency to operate a boat. Fine. But here's the problem;
suppose he gets stopped for inspection?

"Trust me officer, I really am a licensed master, unlimited tonnage,
and I don't need to carry a state card. Prove it? Why should I have to
prove it? Shouldn't my word be sufficient?"

What about the 200 other guys who use the same line, but are simply
BS'n?
The enforcement officer won't really know who's on the level.

Earning the merchant document exempts him from complying with the law
requiring him to take the test, but only if he carries the document
instead of a card.

Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me.

Don White

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Mar 28, 2007, 1:10:35 PM3/28/07
to

"John H." <jher...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ar4l03t8abcnh7532...@4ax.com...

> Had the same thing happen when trying to register a motorcycle at Fort


> Belvoir. I had a Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) instructor's card, but
> to register the bike I had to have either the basic rider's course or
> advanced rider's course card. Both are well below the instructor level.
> --
> ***** Hope your day is better than decent! *****
>
> John H


Yeah but...when did you get that instructor's card... 1948 ??


basskisser

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Mar 28, 2007, 1:56:46 PM3/28/07
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On Mar 28, 12:14 pm, "Tim" <tschna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do people that administer a drug/urine test, have to take one too?
>
>
>
> Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
> > On 27 Mar 2007 19:23:35 -0700, "Tim" <tschna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Here's a guy that is licensed to command major tonnage, but yet will
> > >be requiered to take a safety course to pilot a boat that could
> > >probably fit in the tankers galley.
>
> > Interesting morning.
>
> > Let's just say that the reasoning is...well, arcane.
>
> > Plus it seems that while he's qualified to teach the class or a
> > USPS/USCG class without additional qualifications, he still need to
> > have taken either course or the State 8 hour course to qualify for the
> > certificate.
>
> > Addendum:
>
> > CT now offers a special endorsement to the Operater's Certificate
> > denoting that you can actually navigate with paper charts and such.
> > Minor thing actually, but I was curious if I qualified based on my
> > Master's License.
>
> > Turns out I don't - I have to take the course that I taught for three
> > years as a state instructor to qualify for the certificate or take the
> > USPS/USCG navigation course which is about three levels below my
> > qualifications.
>
> > Put another way, I can teach the course, but I don't qualify for the
> > certificate sticker unless I take the course and pass.
>
> > Don't you just love bureaucrats?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

If they are going to do the task that is being tested for, then I'd
presume yes.

John H.

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:12:13 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:10:35 GMT, "Don White" <whi...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

1991, why?

BTW, not all Canadians share your unwillingness to read.

http://www.canadianvalues.ca/commentary.aspx?aid=288

Don White

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:34:19 PM3/28/07
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"John H." <jher...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tdfl03hv9lg60o82m...@4ax.com...

Yeah..right! Quote someone from Calgary which prides itself on being a
little Houston.
Alberta's premier once said 'Let the the Eastern bastards freeze in the
dark' when complaining about selling some of his oil below market value for
the good of the country.


RJSmithers

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:40:18 PM3/28/07
to

Why should anyone sell their product below market value? If someone in
Newfoundland wanted to buy your boat below market value would you sell
it to them? They would appreciate it. My guess is you would tell them
to let the bastards die dry. grin

John H.

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Mar 28, 2007, 5:20:27 PM3/28/07
to
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:34:19 GMT, "Don White" <whi...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

I quoted no one. I simply pointed out that *some* Canadians read...before
calling something 'lies'.

Jim

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Mar 28, 2007, 7:45:54 PM3/28/07
to
Take the advanced rider course given at Americade. You'll be glad you did.
Americade itself is a hoot.
Jim

Eisboch

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Mar 28, 2007, 7:58:40 PM3/28/07
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"Jim" <jim...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:S6DOh.16026$PL....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> Take the advanced rider course given at Americade. You'll be glad you did.
> Americade itself is a hoot.
> Jim

Do you remember the older, rust orange colored Softail I had in Florida?
It's the one I used when we went for the ride out through sugar cane
country. Anyway, my son Steven has that bike now. Still looks like new.
I've been eyeballing the new Ultra Classics but I think I'll stick to the
one I have. Time for new tires though.

Eisboch


JimH

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:07:25 PM3/28/07
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"Eisboch" <r...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:qbqdnZGLKeINF5fb...@comcast.com...

I still carry a motorcycle endorsement I received on after passing the road
test on my Honda 50 at age 16. My last drive was on a Kawasaki
750...............a fast machine.


Short Wave Sportfishing

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:12:06 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:07:25 -0400, "JimH" <pffff...@noone.com>
wrote:

>I still carry a motorcycle endorsement I received on after passing the road
>test on my Honda 50 at age 16. My last drive was on a Kawasaki
>750...............a fast machine

I can go you one better.

I have the motorcycle endorsement on my driver's license and I've
never owned a motorcycle in my life.

Never actually driven one either.

JimH

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:20:43 PM3/28/07
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"Short Wave Sportfishing" <em...@swsports.org> wrote in message
news:501m031hsj47c18o9...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:07:25 -0400, "JimH" <pffff...@noone.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I still carry a motorcycle endorsement I received after passing the road

>>test on my Honda 50 at age 16. My last drive was on a Kawasaki
>>750...............a fast machine
>
> I can go you one better.
>
> I have the motorcycle endorsement on my driver's license and I've
> never owned a motorcycle in my life.
>
> Never actually driven one either.

I give...........how did you do it?


Short Wave Sportfishing

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:32:11 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:20:43 -0400, "JimH" <pffff...@noone.com>
wrote:

I didn't. The DMV did.

When we moved from MA to CT, I applied, got my picture taken and
received a license with my (at the time) Class One with motorcycle
endorsement.

It's just followed me through every renewal. :>)

Mike

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Mar 29, 2007, 1:10:38 AM3/29/07
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>>What about the 200 other guys who use the same line, but are simply
BS'n?
The enforcement officer won't really know who's on the level.<<

I guess the real point here is that if all he has to do is carry his current
documents in the boat, he should be able to bring those same documents in,
to get the ID card. He should probably still pay the testing fee, but that
should be it.

I agree with Tom, it's just silly.

--Mike

"Chuck Gould" <chuckgou...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175100889.3...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing

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Mar 29, 2007, 10:28:23 AM3/29/07
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 05:10:38 GMT, "Mike" <Mi...@csi.com> wrote:

>I guess the real point here is that if all he has to do is carry his current
>documents in the boat, he should be able to bring those same documents in,
>to get the ID card. He should probably still pay the testing fee, but that
>should be it.
>
>I agree with Tom, it's just silly

Additionally, if you get stopped for whatever reason - say a safety
inspection - and they ask for your operater's card, you show them
Master's documents, expect to get the third degree and the most nit
picking safety inspection you could imagine.

It's happened to me - twice - once in RI and once in CT, once on the
second Contender and once on the Ranger.

I don't carry the Master's license anymore when I'm out unless I have
a client aboard.

Message has been deleted

Jeff Rigby

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Mar 30, 2007, 6:37:03 AM3/30/07
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"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:ujcj039v32k34ucd7...@4ax.com...

> On 27 Mar 2007 16:47:01 -0700, "mjpierce5" <mjpi...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 27, 7:42 pm, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:17:05 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
>>> <e...@swsports.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >One of my good friends just retired from the Merchant Marine after
>>> >twenty years as Captain of various tanker and super tanker vessels.
>>>
>>> >Since he retired, he purchased a boat (50 foot Hatteras convertible)
>>> >and went to see the DEP about getting the required Boating Operation
>>> >Certificate. He took all his Master's documents down to DEP HQ in
>>> >Lyme, CT and was refused - he has to take a boating course.
>>>
>>> >So I looked it up. As silly as this is, here is the official
>>> >statement on previous experience.
>>>
>>> >13 - I have a valid Coast Guard Operating License. Do I need the Safe
>>> >Boating Certificate to operate my boat?
>>>
>>> >If you have a current master, mate, or pilot license issued through
>>> >the Coast Guard, you do not need the Connecticut Safe Boating
>>> >Certificate to operate your boat. You must keep the valid license with
>>> >you at all times. You cannot use the valid Coast Guard License to
>>> >obtain your Connecticut Safe Boating Certificate. You would have to
>>> >take a boating course or provide us with proof that you have taken an
>>> >approved boating course to obtain a safe boating certificate.
>>>
>>> >Now I ask you - does that seem even reasonable? He doesn't want to
>>> >keep his documents with him at all times - not when a small, wallet
>>> >sized card is available from the state.
>>>
>>> >Freakin' unbelivable.
>>>
>>> They also offer experienced boaters the opportunity to just take the
>>> test
>>> without the course. Big deal. He should just do what's required and stop
>>> whining
>>> like a spoiled baby. Not everything in life is fair or makes sense. Save
>>> the
>>> tears for something worth getting excited about. Does he have
>>> inoperable
>>> cancer?
>>>
>>> Jeez!
>>>
>>> CWM
>>
>>Sounds like the State of CT wants its various assorted fees for taking
>>the test, issuing the documents, etc...
>>It also sounds like he could be teaching the course.
>>
>>Michael
>
> Big deal. Stop crying and do what you have to do. This is not worth
> whining
> about. If you can't deal with this minor thing, then you probably are NOT
> equipped to handle a boat safely.
>
> CWM

Yes, everyone has to be treated the same and the lowest common denominator
in our society are idiots. So we all have to be treated like idiots. Makes
life interesting being treated like an idiot by your own government. IT
become more interesting when government employees are idiots too. They
can't be discriminated against and have to be fairly treated in hiring
practices.

I'm not talking IQ here just common sense.

Chuck Gould

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Mar 30, 2007, 3:28:18 PM3/30/07
to
> I'm not talking IQ here just common sense.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

IMO, common sense would dictate that when special conditions, such as
holding a master's license, exempt one from following a general
regulation in a specific jurisdiction it isn't unreasonable for the
person taking advantage of the exception to be prepared to document
his exemption.

I'll bet a dollar vs. a donut......(wait, aren't donuts more than $1
these days?)....
that the wallet card would be perfectly adequate "documentation". It
certainly is in WA.


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