Sea-Doo Challenger weight?
HALCO HAL
undersized.
Larry W4CSC
>How much does a 1976 Challenger weigh.Looking for a lift and I don't want to be
>undersized.
There was no 1976 Challenger Sea-Doo jetboat! I assume you mean
1996....
1865 DRY, add 1200 pounds of lots of FUEL and stuff for a whopping
3000# loaded weight! Powered by finicky jetski engines that REQUIRE
$30/gallon special lube oils for idiotic sliding exhaust valves that
stick and rotating intake valves that wear like crazy, instead of
reeds, it won't make any difference. It spends its time on the
trailer out behind some motorcycle shop waiting for parts or a repair
technician who wants to work on it. It spends twice as much time as a
Sea Doo jetski behind the shop. It's got twice as many problems from
the twice as many engines!
Doo yourself a big favor. Buy a jetboat with a V-6 Mercury Sport Jet
drive in it. It works SO good, even SeaDooDoo abandoned finicky
jetski engines and bought it FROM THEIR COMPETITOR! SeaDoo owns
Evinrude/Johnson, you know, but bought drives from Mercury! Is that a
hint??
RUN away from jetski powered jetboats......
Larry
Eric Nospam
don't want to be
> >undersized.
That figure is for the Challenger 1800. He didn't specify 1800, so I
would guess that he meant the 14' version. The 14' version weighs
significantly less.
> It spends its time on the
> trailer out behind some motorcycle shop waiting for parts or a
repair
> technician who wants to work on it. It spends twice as much time as
a
> Sea Doo jetski behind the shop. It's got twice as many problems
from
> the twice as many engines!
This has not been my experience nor anyone else I know who has one.
Just because your yamaha jet boat had problems doesn't mean that every
sea doo boat will have problems...
> RUN away from jetski powered jetboats......
I agree with you that the merc is a better motor - and given the
choice, I would choose the merc over the rotax. However, the rotax
motors are not anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. As
long as they are reasonably well cared for, the rotax motors just
fine.
- Eric
Curtis CCR
> > >How much does a 1976 Challenger weigh.Looking for a lift and I
> don't want to be
> > >undersized.
> > 1865 DRY, add 1200 pounds of lots of FUEL and stuff for a whopping
>
> That figure is for the Challenger 1800. He didn't specify 1800, so I
> would guess that he meant the 14' version. The 14' version weighs
> significantly less.
And there was no Challenger 1800 in the 96 model year.
The 96 Challenger's dry weight is just under 1,100 lbs. A full tank
of gas would add 162 lbs. (27 gallons). Its "Coast Guard Placard"
capacity is 4 persons or 650 lbs of persons and gear.
Consumption at WOT is about 12 gph.
Larry may have a point about the RAVE (Rotax Automatic Variable
Exhaust) valve being finicky. But he is talking out of his ass in
regard to the rotary intake valve. The rotary valve is proven,
reliable design. Bombardier uses them in other vehicles. Rotax
rotatry valve engines are the most popular among ultrlight aircraft
enthusiasts.
>
> > It spends its time on the
> > trailer out behind some motorcycle shop waiting for parts or a
> repair
> > technician who wants to work on it. It spends twice as much time as
> a
> > Sea Doo jetski behind the shop. It's got twice as many problems
> from
> > the twice as many engines!
The 1996 Challenger is a single. For someone that claims to be such
an authority on problems with Sea-Doo jet boats and Rotax engine, you
sure have your facts FUBAR'd.
> This has not been my experience nor anyone else I know who has one.
>
> Just because your yamaha jet boat had problems doesn't mean that every
> sea doo boat will have problems...
My 96 Speedster has a pair of Rotax 720s (not RAVE). Never had an
engine failure. The two times I have returned to the marina on one
engine were due to fouled jet pumps - once I ended up with severl feet
of dock line wraped up in one). I have never needed a tow. Larry
can't say that about his Sea Rayder
Maintenance on the Rotax is pretty easy - even though Lary will go
into melodramatic forelock tugging about how hard it is to flush Rotax
motors... it's not.
> > RUN away from jetski powered jetboats......
> I agree with you that the merc is a better motor - and given the
> choice, I would choose the merc over the rotax. However, the rotax
> motors are not anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. As
> long as they are reasonably well cared for, the rotax motors just
> fine.
I too would say the Merc is probably a better motor - but its a
different design. But Rotax makes a good, cheap-to-keep engine.
HALCO HAL
lb. lift will do the job.
Larry W4CSC
>"Eric Nospam" <nos...@dontspam.com> wrote in message news:<a8g19...@enews1.newsguy.com>...
>> > >How much does a 1976 Challenger weigh.Looking for a lift and I
>> don't want to be
>> > >undersized.
>> > 1865 DRY, add 1200 pounds of lots of FUEL and stuff for a whopping
>>
>> That figure is for the Challenger 1800. He didn't specify 1800, so I
>> would guess that he meant the 14' version. The 14' version weighs
>> significantly less.
>
>And there was no Challenger 1800 in the 96 model year.
>
>The 96 Challenger's dry weight is just under 1,100 lbs. A full tank
>of gas would add 162 lbs. (27 gallons). Its "Coast Guard Placard"
>capacity is 4 persons or 650 lbs of persons and gear.
>
>Consumption at WOT is about 12 gph.
There's another reason to NOT buy jetski powered boats. Even IF this
is the correct gas consumption of this boat, it's what my 175hp V-6
Sport Jet consumes ALL DAY of racing around the barrier islands on the
Atlantic Ocean and rivers around Charleston. I rarely use 14 gallons
of my 25 gallon tank in the Sea Rayder F16XR2, which weighs dry about
1100#. The Yamaha jetboat, with twin 1200cc Yamacrap triples in it
consumes a whopping 28 to 30 GALLONS PER HOUR!! My buddy's Hatteras
56's twin 8V92TA dual turbocharger train engines don't consume more!
Jetski engines use the same carbs as a weedeater or chain saw. They
are cheap, 2-circuit, diaphram carbs. They are very inefficient,
especially at partial throttle settings in the area where the idle
jets give way to the main jets. The Sport Jet, on the other hand, has
a 5 circuit, float carb, developed over 50 years, with a special
lean-out vacuum system to lean out the carbs in the part throttle
region, giving you much better mileage at cruise. Jetskis have simple
choke plates screwing up the airflow. Racers replace this with a
weedeater hand pump to start it cold. The Sport Jet has a
computer-controlled enrichment system that makes the big V-6 run as
smooth dead cold as it does hot! It always starts unless it's broke.
It never "sneezes" like an Evinrude/Johnson or jetski engine. The
powerhead has been produced since 1983 and Merc has got it right. In
800 hours, I've lost one stator to salt corrosion.
Jetski engines eat spark plugs. Watch the jetskiiers changing plugs
all the time. Just stop and ask 'em about the maintenance. That boat
has the SAME engine, rotary/sliding valves or not. I thought your
boat had the 785 Rotax engines with the sliding valves. The ones
without it had no power. That's why Bombadier went to sliding valves
and rotary intakes. Their competitors added a third cylinder for more
power. Bombadier upped the per cylinder power.
Ask the jetskiiers how many hours a jetski engine will run. They get
their power just like a weedeater, from lots of RPM, up around 7000.
This causes lots of wear on the fast moving parts! It's not rocket
science and all the denial can't cure basic physics. The props spin
so fast in the little pumps, NEVER MADE TO PUSH A HEAVY BOAT, they
have cavitation problems. The sport jet's big prop (7.25") runs
through a 1.25:1 gear and spins a maximum of 4000 RPM when the engine
is wide open at 5500 RPM. It's just less wear and tear. It lasts
lots longer between major overhauls.
Jetski crankshafts are made in little pieces, pressed together, then
pinned to keep them together, saving the company money on bearings and
crank costs. The Sport Jet has the same powerhead as the proven
outboard motor. The crank is a one-piece, forged crank Merc has been
making for 100 years. The crank is huge! It's MADE to drive a heavy
boat. It's made to last, too!
Jetski pumps are made of plastic. It's cheaper and, in a jetski,
anything you do to lighten up the power plant adds speed to the tiny
boats. The Sport Jet pump is made completely of METAL...stainless
steel and cast aluminum. It's very heavy duty. So heavy duty, in
fact, that the owner's manual suggests you practice going into reverse
AT SPEED to brake the boat in an emergency. In a jetski, if you drop
the cheap plastic reverse bucket at 50 mph, it simply gets torn off.
Jetski engines are horizontal in nature. They MUST be located FORWARD
of the pump with a shaft horizontal straight into the pump. This
occupies lots of horizontal deck space. Notice how long the trunk is
in the Challenger. It has to be this way because the engine must sit
in FRONT of the pump. The Sport Jet, on the other hand, sits right on
TOP of the pump. It's a packaged unit that simply fits in a
rectangular hole in the bilge. The intake, pump, nozzle are all part
of the METAL pump. Jetski engines use the hull for an intake. The
seal between the pump and his hull piece has a long history of
leakage. The huge rubber seal held squeezed to the hull in the sport
jet by 8 huge bolts doesn't leak.
Watch the jetskis at your local boatramp. Their horizontal engines
have "waterboxes" full of seawater for a muffler. When they are
pulled out, they must start the engine with no cooling water to blow
out the horizontal engine and exhaust system to keep the lake/ocean
from eating the guts out of it. If you leave it in the water, the
whole engine/exhaust is constantly full of seawater. That's important
here in the ocean. The Sport Jet, on the other hand, is a VERTICAL
outboard engine. It is designed to self-drain every time you shut it
down. The engine is higher than the waterlevel. Its muffler sits
between the jugs, is vertical and self-draining. There is NO
"winterizing" of an outboard motor because there is no water left in
it to drain out. The Sport Jet continues this concept. The exhaust
runs straight DOWN into the pump area where there are dual exhaust
outlets under the nozzle. The only water in it at rest at the dock is
what's submerged in the pump. ALL the pump and this exhaust system is
protected by THREE big zincs on the pump. After over 3 years of
salt-water use, the pump and engine, covered with that black Mercury
paint that is as hard as nails, looks just like it did the day I
bought it. I flush the left-over salt out with the handy flush
attachment and spray the salt off the pump with hose water after use.
It takes 5 minutes.
I'll think of more great reasons if the thread continues. The Sport
Jet powered boats are just BETTER, all the way around.
>
>Larry may have a point about the RAVE (Rotax Automatic Variable
>Exhaust) valve being finicky. But he is talking out of his ass in
>regard to the rotary intake valve. The rotary valve is proven,
>reliable design. Bombardier uses them in other vehicles. Rotax
>rotatry valve engines are the most popular among ultrlight aircraft
>enthusiasts.
>
Bullshit. If the rotary valve and sliding exhaust valves, both of
which add complexity and failure modes to the engines, were such a
great idea, every 2-stroke engine on the planet would have them, by
now. Even Sea-Doo has abandoned the whole damned troublesome engines
and bought its COMPETITOR'S Sport Jet engines for their jetboats.
Bombadier uses these short-lived engines in low-hour, short lived
jetskis, snowmobiles, and racing vehicles. The key is they are SHORT
LIVED. Thousands and thousands of SeaDoos were sold during the peak
times of the jetski business in the early 1990s. Seeing a 8-year-old
jetski is a real event at any boatramp. It's like seeing a 1955
Evinrude, a real antique. What happened to all those thousands and
thousands of boats?? It's simple, they wore out fast! Owners were
unwilling to pay the terrible overhaul costs for such a little engine.
Jetskis were invented with planned obsolescense in mind. It worked.
I'd like my expensive jetboat to last 10-15 years and have some resale
value at the end. Worn out jetskis in any black/blue book are
worthless. Jetski powered boat resale values are very low, due to the
short-lived engines....far below other powerplants. Sport Jet powered
boats have resale values near outboard boats.
Touche'
Larry
Charles
who are fairly new to this group, Larry has been spouting this same crap for
about three years now. He lobbied almost to the point of begging for
someone, anyone else on this NG to buy a Sea Rayder so he'd have some
support.
I never did see another Rayder owner out here with him. The boat he
champions so much was such a terrrific failure that Sea Ray discontinued
production.
He bad mouths anything he doesn't own. When it gets to the point where
nobody on the forum is even remotely listening to him, he makes this huge,
melodramatic "resignation from the group" and quits posting for a while.
Sure, he's reading it every day to see if anyone will miss him. After a few
months he comes back but the tune doesn't change.
Anyway, your 2000 pound lift is plenty to pick up a Challenger. Outside of
that, just take care of it like you would any boat. Keep it clean, keep it
dry, and stay ahead of the routine maintenance.
Charles
"Curtis CCR" <curt...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3c876a96.02040...@posting.google.com...
Larry W4CSC
>
>He bad mouths anything he doesn't own. When it gets to the point where
>nobody on the forum is even remotely listening to him, he makes this huge,
>melodramatic "resignation from the group" and quits posting for a while.
>Sure, he's reading it every day to see if anyone will miss him. After a few
>months he comes back but the tune doesn't change.
I don't own a Hatteras. It was one of the best built yachts I've ever
had the pleasure of being in the bilge of. I'm sorry you got stuck
with a DooDoo on your shoe...(c;
Curtis, aren't you a Doo Doo dealer???......
Larry
Curtis CCR
> It always starts unless it's broke.
That's priceless.
Charles
we asked for your sympathy. If you could set aside the attitude and pass
along your considerable (yes, I'm serious) boating knowledge in a way that
doesn't piss everyone off, this NG would be a bit better place to hang out.
Between you and Harry one has to sift through this mountain of crap just to
find some good information.
I didn't get any "DooDoo" on my shoe (whatever that means). I kept the boat
for two seasons and traded it for a Nautique. It did just fine for me but
we simply outgrew it.
Charles
"Larry W4CSC" <spami...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:3cada995...@isp-east.usenetserver.com...