Dye tablets in holding tank????
Keith
newsletter) from South Shore Harbor Marina, there was an article about
people dumping their heads in the marina. Of course I agree that this
shouldn't be done, but listen to this line....
"We have already procured EPA approved dye tablets and will begin
randomly dropping them in holding tanks around the marina. If you find a
yellow-green stain in your bilge, it will lead you to the leak that has
ben the source of annoying odors in your boat. If you find the dye in
the water all around your boat, it will lead you in search of another
marina."
I suppose my first question is... where do they think they have the
right to put things into the tanks on my boat!!!??? Second...how will
this dye crap affect my holding tank and the chemicals, etc. that are in
there. Peggy... you ever heard of this before?
--
__________________
Keith
For 20 dollars, I'll give you a good tagline next time ...
David Smalley
They would be getting a letter from my laywer to cease and desist
immediatly, and that under no circumstances are they allowed to touch
your boat for said purposes.
Beware, she once adviced me "I can get away with virtually anything as
long and I give notice and they
don't immediatly respond in valid legal writing".
--
DAVe & Skoshi, '69 Stamas 26'
http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/d/r/drsi/
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
years. Several places, including the Catalina Island harbormaster's
people are known to do it as a condition of renting a mooring. They're
just food coloring...won't hurt a thing. However, most of 'em are
red...yellow-green can be very hard to see in sea water, and in the
bilge can easily be confused with engine coolant and other things.
And yes, the marina has the right to do it. In fact, their marina lease
could be in jeopardy in "no discharge" waters if they don't enforce
holding tanks for their tenants, and obviously they suspect that a large
enough percentage of boats are flushing raw sewage overboard to justify
random checks. Dye tablets are the easiest way to check and don't
require any further inspection of your boat--just drop one in and
flush--and boat owners can be VERY creative when it comes hiding a
y-valve and macerator to either bypass a tank or dump it in the slip. I
know exactly where I could put a holding tank bypass y-valve on my boat
that would impossible to find without tearing out a locker...but there'd
also be no way I could get to it to change the y-valve in time to pass a
dye tablet inspection.
So calm down...understand your marina's position...and if you're not
worried about dye showing up in the water, smile and welcome 'em aboard
if you're randomly selected for a test.
Peggie
http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/
Keith wrote:
>
> Boy, here's a new one. In our monthly "threat" letter (AKA marina
> newsletter) from South Shore Harbor Marina, there was an article about
> people dumping their heads in the marina. Of course I agree that this
> shouldn't be done, but listen to this line....
>
> "We have already procured EPA approved dye tablets and will begin
> randomly dropping them in holding tanks around the marina. If you find a
> yellow-green stain in your bilge, it will lead you to the leak that has
> ben the source of annoying odors in your boat. If you find the dye in
> the water all around your boat, it will lead you in search of another
> marina."
>
> I suppose my first question is... where do they think they have the
> right to put things into the tanks on my boat!!!??? Second...how will
> this dye crap affect my holding tank and the chemicals, etc. that are in
> there. Peggy... you ever heard of this before?
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
> They would be getting a letter from my laywer to cease and desist
> immediatly, and that under no circumstances are they allowed to touch
> your boat for said purposes.
And you would get a letter terminating your slip lease in that marina.
:-)
Keith didn't say they plan to board anyone's boat when no one's
aboard...but I wouldn't recommend refusing them permission to board when
you are aboard. It's your boat...but your boat is on their property and
subject to their rules as long as it stays there. It says so in every
marina lease, which every marina tenant has to sign.
Ever notice that the people who don't think their marina has any right
to come aboard to protect its own interests and those of the entire
marina community--in fact, are the first to threaten legal action--are
the same people who'd never THINK of questioning their marina's right to
come aboard to protect or save their boat in the event of a parted line,
or a fire...or sinking...in fact, would threaten to sue for negligence
if they DIDN'T do anything? :-)
Ya can't have it both ways, folks.
Rich Hampel
2. Replace the deck fill cap with one that says FUEL #2.
3. VERY Carefully read your marina contact to see if this procedure is anyway covered or connected
in the present agreement.
4. Send a veiled (but very polite) legal "super threat" back to the marina stating that you totally
agree with and highly applaud their actions pretaining to the continuing and ever deplorable
condition, etc. In paragraph #2 of the same letter advise the marina that since this action is
not previously covered in your present slip, etc. contract ..... that the marina must obviously
accept all consequences for all damages to your property, etc. ***(including your legal defense
costs)*** and other such costs of defense if such activity of dye usage damages your holding tank(s)
and associated plumbing system, etc. AND any external (&waterline) gel coat damages as encountered
from staining, etc. from the dye discharge from adjacent boats found to be "guilty", etc. cc your
letter to the nastiest law firm nearby the marina, (obviously dont send the cc to the shylock). If
you have already arranged to move to another marina... send the above letter by certified mail,
return receipt.
5. Get some EPA approved dye tablets (or standard dye marker) and put some in the rain
gutters/downspouts of the marina office, parking lot drains, etc. Anonymously call CG/'EPA during
next rain storm and report...."that there is 'serious' pollution being emitted at South Shore Harbor
Marina".
5a. If you have diving equipment, late some night ..... tie a dye tablet underwater to EVERY boat in
the marina
6. Fly the Nazi flag from your port spreader while at your slip to show your marina that you are on
the same side.
7. Absolutely ..... ****Move your boat to another marina**** when the currrent contract expires
.... as you will sooner or later be indicted, implicated or otherwise extorted by this marina.
Pray tell this newsgroup....
Does the entrance to this 'marina' contain the words "Arbeit Macht Frei"???
Is the proprietor a former Hitler Youth??? or grammar school disciplinarian ???
Do the restrooms have TV surveillance to insure that only natural and EPA approved materials enter
the toilet bowls ????? I'd bet the farm that you ARE being 'monitored'.... (find it and you've won
the lottery).
Most importantly .... what is the location of this customer relations travesty ??? ..... so the
rest of us never bllindly wander into this entrapment.
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
Rich Hampel wrote:
>
> 1. Buy a locking deck fill replacement cap. - Boat US @ $6.00
> 2. Replace the deck fill cap with one that says FUEL #2.
And just exactly what would that accomplish except to possibly cause
some dock hand to pump fuel into a holding tank? How many deck fills
have you ever seen that are plumbed to anything that goes directly
overboard? So how would any dye dropped down a deck fill end up in the
water???
(I just love it when y'all slap your horses on the rump, yell
"chaaarrge!!!" and watch 'em take off without you! <LOL> )
The only way to find out whether toilets are flushing into holding
tanks is by putting a dye tablet down the toilet and flushing the
toilet. If the toilet's flushing directly overboard, the dye will show
up in the water around the boat...if it's not, no dye in the water. And
unless the marina has a key your boat--and most don't, they can't do
that unless you're aboard to let them come aboard.
Your horse is waiting for you at the next windmill, Don Quixote... :-)))
Peggie
hkr...@capuantispam.net
What happened to Y valves?
--
Harry Krause
------------
Columbus had a fourth ship - it sailed over the edge
Steve Weingart
COUNCEL thread that is slipping into the gutter)...
I think that everyone would agree that
1) Dumping the contents of your holding tank into the marina basin is a bad
thing.
2) The tablets do no harm to those who are not spewing sewage (I'll take
Peggie's word on that, if you don't sorry)
3) They hopefully will catch the culprits, the dye may help
4) The yard has to stay on it's side of the slip lease agreement
5) The boat owner has to stay on his/her side of said agreement
6) No one is holding a gun to anyone's head (the one on the shoulders, as
opposed to the one on the boat :-) to stay in that marina. If you don't
like it, take your $$$ elsewhere, that is what freedom is all about. They
get to choose, and SO DO YOU. (freedom means you can't take away someone's
right to be a jerk, just because *you* don't like it, but you can go
elsewhere)
Now the question is what is all this chest beating, soverignty of my vessel
stuff all about? If the marina causes damage to your boat, that is
vandalism, there are laws against that. If you left them you keys, and it
doesn;t forbid them boarding in the contract, then they are ALLOWED to.
The marina can probably be fined a larger sum than all of the customers pay
for their slips combined if they do not show due dilligence in preventing
pollution.
So, unless you have a leaky tank and you know it, or you are one of the
tank dumpers, whatcha' bitchin' about???
BTW I think that the marina *may* be somewhat draconian about this, but
what's the alternative? They say 'Don't do that!', and the offenders say
'Tough, I'll do it anyway, try to catch me'.... So they will...
Steve
Joe Della Barba
We will put dye in your holding tank
We will drug test you and your crew
We will put a cork in your dog's butt so he doesn't mess up the lawn
We will put motion sensors in your cabin so you don't sleep over more
than 1 night a month
We will videotape your V berth to make sure you don't use illegal
sexual positions (varies by state).
We will X-ray you coming in and out of the yard to make sure you don't
bring anything illegal in or out.
Why any "free" American would put up with this BS is beyond me!
Joe - thank God I am on my OWN mooring that I put down where I wanted
it and NO ONE tells me what to do there!
BTW - For all you head police - Baltimore just spilled 1,000,000
gallons of raw sewage and stated there would be no bad effects from
such spill.
Dave Brown
> Welcome to Camp Auschwitz Nazi Marina:
You seem to take personal property rights pretty seriously Joe. A commendable
position I support too.
Naturally then, you'd be just as supportive of anyone else asserting *their*
personal property rights, yes?
And if that person happened to *own* the dock where your boat was parked, you'd
support him in seeing to it that his wishes were adhered to?
--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
Weeelll...if they show up unexpectedly to drop the dye, it's a little
hard to get to a y-valve to change it in time without be really obvious
what you're doing. And if you decide to move it to the "right" position
and leave it there in case they show up, the marina has accomplished its
purpose without ever having to show up. :-)
Joe Della Barba
That is what a written lease is for. They can put all the conditions
they want to in the lease and I can take my business elsewhere.
I think the quote is:
Boy, here's a new one. In our monthly "threat" letter (AKA marina
newsletter) from South Shore Harbor Marina, there was an article about
people dumping their heads in the marina.
THIS is not in the lease. I would defend myself against this BS to
fullest lawful extent.
Joe
btw - In case you get the wrong idea, I do not like 1,000,000 gallons
of raw sewage, but it does make one wonder as to priorities.
hkr...@capuantispam.net
You wouldn't have liked the terms at my father's marina in Milford,
Connecticut. Even though he kept most of his customers for years and
years, he still had signs posted stating:
"All Slip Rentals Are Day-to-Day Only"
"Management Reserves Right to Cancel Anyone's Use of Slip on 24 Hours
Notice"
He rarely had to enforce rule 2, but I do remember him kicking out a few
folks because they dumped garbage in the water. He didn't allow
liveaboards, but he had no problem with folks spending a long weekend
aboard, so long as their acitivities didn't keep anyone awake.
Long waiting list to get in, too...at one point several years.
--
Harry Krause
------------
Suicide stunts your growth
Dave Brown
> That is what a written lease is for. They can put all the conditions
> they want to in the lease and I can take my business elsewhere.
Fair enough -- but what if an unforeseen event started occurring that I didn't
have the foresight to write into the lease? Sure, there's always next year, in
the meantime this 'event' continues unabated.
Reasonable people will ultimately reach a compromise that doesn't alter any
'inalienable rights' and achieves the desired result. Others will hide behind
laws in the pursuit of a perceived higher justice while the offense
continues.....
Gould 0738
"Sure, Mr. Marina Manager, drop as many
food coloring tablets into my holding tank as you like. Glad to oblige."
If the sewage is diverted overboard flush by flush via a "Y" valve instead of a
wholesale "dumping" of the holding tank, the waste will never make it to the
holding tank in the first place and there won't be any dye in the water.
Not recommending that anybody dump into the marina, just pointing out that
dropping food dye into the holding tank itself is a fairly meaningless pursuit.
Now, if they were to put it into the marine toilet, that would be a different
scenario.
________
Chuck Gould
Float and let float.
Gloveman
> And just exactly what would that accomplish except to possibly cause
> some dock hand to pump fuel into a holding tank? How many deck fills
> have you ever seen that are plumbed to anything that goes directly
> overboard? So how would any dye dropped down a deck fill end up in the
> water???
Haha, reminds me of the time
my father pumped 50 gallons into
the bilge of a rental boat through
one of the fishing rod holders!
We still call him Captain Valdez!
LaBomba182
>From: Rich Hampel
>1.
>Snipped paranoid psychotic
ramblings<
>so the
>rest of us never bllindly wander into this entrapment.
>
>
Rich, I think it's time to take your meds!
Capt. Bill
LaBomba182
>Joe - thank God I am on my OWN mooring that I put down where I wanted
>it and NO ONE tells me what to do there!
Want to bet on that? Capt. Bill
Joe Della Barba
If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
search every boat?
My libertarian nature revolts at the amount of liberty some people
would give up to prevent JUST ONE (child being killed, sewage
overboard, pot smoker, etc...............)
I take it from your sig you are from California. From a Maryland
perspective California seems to be a fascist boating hell in many
regards. Latitude 38 is always full of "evil CG" and "evil harbour
patrol" stories. We don't seem to be so afflicted here.
Joe
macleanpd
Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their boats
and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
Doug
Keith <klem...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:7645F08C9980BE67.2C6CCB26...@lp.airnews.net...
> Boy, here's a new one. In our monthly "threat" letter (AKA marina
> newsletter) from South Shore Harbor Marina, there was an article about
Del Cecchi
It's dough heads like you that give the right wing a bad name. sheesh.
on==ontario and ca==Canada, aka great white north.
del cecchi
Michael Clemensen
Dave,
Guess he never "clicked" http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
Michael
LaBomba182
>From: jo...@spamoff.earthlink.net (Joe Della Barba)
>If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
>search every boat?
Bad analogy. No one has to run pot, but everybody has to run to the pot.
Capt. Bill
Evan Gatehouse & Diane Selkirk
Joe Della Barba <jo...@spamoff.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:39d3a977....@news.earthlink.net...
>
> BTW - For all you head police - Baltimore just spilled 1,000,000
> gallons of raw sewage and stated there would be no bad effects from
> such spill.
Actually it was 10 milliion gallons. This was in addition to last years
spill of 24.3 million gallons. And you wonder if holding tanks do much
good....
--
Evan Gatehouse
s/v Ceilydh
Rich Hampel
If I'm NOT a crap dumper; and, I'm being accused of being a crap dumper by having to continually
prove my innocence by surrendering my (USA) constitutional rights by submitting to random "poop
checks" by my marina.... then I get pissed. If you applaud this kind of authoritarianism then you
deserve what you ultimately get, including: false-positive evidence, wrongful accusations and the
resulting fines, etc. What's next? Having to submit to DNA testing so the anal retentive types can
positively identify the person who caused the turd???? anus prints from toilet paper???
I get even more pissed when some parasitic lawyer-type complains that I'm chest thumping when the
situation seems to border similarity to being in grammar school wherein the entire class is
disciplined because of actions of one disruptive student.
Consider - a duly authorized eco-nazi patrolling the waterways, fines a marina owner because there
is a turd floating nearby... no one actually sees the offender pooping in the water directly or
indirectly, cannot prove or disprove that the turd floated in from an upstream source; but, there IS
a turd in the water and therefore it MUST be from the closest source - the marina. The marina owner
because of severe decrepitation of our present legal system when involving poop and other EPA issues
has to proactively protect himself by becoming outright ridiculous by enforcing privately
administered draconian measures.
If my accuser was a someone with governmental police powers (exception EPA, IRS, game wardens)
he/she would have to have PROVE **probable cause** BEFORE that officer would even THINK of putting a
dye marker down my tank. Of course EPA, IRS and game wardens (and now it seems marina owners by tort
pressure) are exempt from requiring probable cause.
If you want to really see what happens in real life go to Baltimore harbor this week and enjoy the
stench of hundreds of thousands of gallons of raw sewage erroneously dumped into the harbor. Anyone
going to be fined there??? of course not !!! ... EPA already is reported to have stated that there
won't be "much" damage (and probably knows that the cost of hundreds of bloodthirsty lawyers would
be too much). In contrast, one (unproved) turd floats in a marina and the anal retentive types go
absolutely haywire....der Führer would be very proud of you.
Doug, how do you KNOW people ARE crapping in the water in the marina???? Are you absolutely sure
there isn't a municipal sewage plant nearby that occasionally discharges raw 'stuff' with impunity
????? - MOST do !!!
:-)
Gould 0738
>Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their boats
>and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
>Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
>
The angst has nothing to do with defending those who crap into the marina. It's
about
the right against unreasonable search and seizure.
"It's a known fact that in the general vicinity where Doug's family lives,
illegal drugs have been sold to school kids. The authorities have information
that these drugs were stored in a household closet before sale. Therefore, in
the interest of abating the sale of drugs in Doug's neighborhood, all household
closets will be subject to periodic search by the local police."
Wouldn't set well, would it?
It would be OK to be against the unreasonable search of private property and
still not be in favor of the sale of drugs.
It's just as possible to be against the marina management assuming the right of
unrestricted access to your boat, and still be against floating turds along the
dock.
myst...@mindspring.com
<hkr...@capuantispam.net> wrote in message
<<<snipped a whole big bunch of quotation>>>
> What happened to Y valves?
>
> --
> Harry Krause
Say, Harry, has anyone ever brought you up to speed on the concept of
editing? You included 84 lines of quotation in your post, some of which was
being posted for the third time. No one really wants to read all that stuff
we've already read, and it doesn't contribute anything to your post. Please
try cutting the vast majority of it and posting only a line or two to
qualify your response. Please?
Jeff
hkr...@capuantispam.net
Sure, Jeff. I'll be sure to edit and post in the future to your spec's.
Got any more rules for me to follow?
--
Harry Krause
------------
He who dies with the most TAGLINES wins!
David Smalley
>
> > They would be getting a letter from my laywer to cease and desist
> > immediatly, and that under no circumstances are they allowed to touch
> > your boat for said purposes.
>
> And you would get a letter terminating your slip lease in that marina.
> :-)
Not if said wording were not in my slip lease. You can not change a
contract after the fact.
> Keith didn't say they plan to board anyone's boat when no one's
> aboard...but I wouldn't recommend refusing them permission to board when
> you are aboard. It's your boat...but your boat is on their property and
> subject to their rules as long as it stays there. It says so in every
> marina lease, which every marina tenant has to sign.
Subject to the rules that were in force at the time you and they signed
the original lease.
> Ever notice that the people who don't think their marina has any right
> to come aboard to protect its own interests and those of the entire
> marina community--in fact, are the first to threaten legal action--are
> the same people who'd never THINK of questioning their marina's right to
> come aboard to protect or save their boat in the event of a parted line,
> or a fire...or sinking...in fact, would threaten to sue for negligence
> if they DIDN'T do anything? :-)
>
> Ya can't have it both ways, folks.
Until they can prove reason to suspect my boat from discharging illegal
substances they do not have the slightest right to board it and tamper
with it.
If I arrive at my marina and see someone on my boat s/he should consider
his/her life to be in mortal danger and better start talking fast and
convincingly.
--
DAVe & Skoshi, '69 Stamas 26'
http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/d/r/drsi/
myst...@mindspring.com
"macleanpd" <macl...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their
boats
> and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
> Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
After sustaining one very nasty sleepless night with dysentery after
swimming in a harbor in the BVI, apparently after someone had pumped his
head and I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'd
tend to believe that only a complete jerk would pump his head overboard in a
crowded marina. Since, as we all know, there is no predicted shortage of
complete jerks, I'd say the problem is a serious and frequently recurrent
one. While I'm not in favor of surrendering my personal rights and freedoms
to governmental agencies, I don't have an alternative for catching the
violators, short of posting a team of scuba divers near the head discharge
thru-hulls of every boat at all hours of the day and night.
That some people will always find it desirable to pump overboard rather than
pay for a pumpout is sadly a given. Until someone comes up with an
alternative to the dye tablets, it seems to be the most innocuous method we
currently have for catching violators in the act.
I suspect that eventually all US licensed pleasure craft and those entering
the US may have to have closed systems--no overboard discharge option at
all, forcing offshore sailors to resort to the old cedar bucket method once
outside the control zone. Does anyone believe that is a reasonable
alternative? I don't. But if the problem continues, it will happen. It
happened in the Great Lakes, and it will happen on the left, right, and
bottom coasts as well. I have no doubt of it.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
<hkr...@capuantispam.net> wrote in message
> Sure, Jeff. I'll be sure to edit and post in the future to your spec's.
Thank you.
> Got any more rules for me to follow?
Not rules, Harry. Courtesy. Common courtesy and proper Usenet etiquette.
And I was wrong before--you posted some text for the fourth time, not the
third. Most of us read it the first time.
Jeff
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
request to his. It IS a pain to scroll down through 50+ lines to read
your four or five pithy words. If it's too much effort for you to be
considerate enough to "cut to the chase," you can easily reset your
software to post your comments above the quoted post.
Or...we can all just skim by headers with your name on 'em without
reading your comments 'cuz it's more trouble than they're usually worth.
Peggie
http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/
hkr...@capuantispam.net wrote:
>
> myst...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > <hkr...@capuantispam.net> wrote in message
> >
> > <<<snipped a whole big bunch of quotation>>>
> >
> > > What happened to Y valves?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Harry Krause
> >
> > Say, Harry, has anyone ever brought you up to speed on the concept of
> > editing? You included 84 lines of quotation in your post, some of which was
> > being posted for the third time. No one really wants to read all that stuff
> > we've already read, and it doesn't contribute anything to your post. Please
> > try cutting the vast majority of it and posting only a line or two to
> > qualify your response. Please?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Sure, Jeff. I'll be sure to edit and post in the future to your spec's.
> Got any more rules for me to follow?
>
M DeMetz
I prefer to put the original post at the bottom of the response as here.
The reason is simple for me. The waw the system works I haven't seen the
original post for this thread. Don't know why. I don't understand how the
computers handle these things but I frequently seem to miss the front part of a
thread.
Mike
************************
Matt Koch
matt
"Del Cecchi" <dce...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:39D403AF...@ibm.net...
> Joe Della Barba wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:42:13 -0400, Dave Brown
> > <da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >Joe Della Barba wrote:
> > >
> > >> That is what a written lease is for. They can put all the conditions
> > >> they want to in the lease and I can take my business elsewhere.
> > >
> > >Fair enough -- but what if an unforeseen event started occurring that I
didn't
> > >have the foresight to write into the lease? Sure, there's always next
year, in
> > >the meantime this 'event' continues unabated.
> > >
> > >Reasonable people will ultimately reach a compromise that doesn't alter
any
> > >'inalienable rights' and achieves the desired result. Others will hide
behind
> > >laws in the pursuit of a perceived higher justice while the offense
> > >continues.....
> > >
> > >--
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > > Dave Brown
> > > Brown's Marina
> > > http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
> > If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
> > search every boat?
> > My libertarian nature revolts at the amount of liberty some people
> > would give up to prevent JUST ONE (child being killed, sewage
> > overboard, pot smoker, etc...............)
> > I take it from your sig you are from California. From a Maryland
> > perspective California seems to be a fascist boating hell in many
> > regards. Latitude 38 is always full of "evil CG" and "evil harbour
> > patrol" stories. We don't seem to be so afflicted here.
> > Joe
>
>
Lloyd Sumpter
>
> "macleanpd" <macl...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their
> boats
> > and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
> > Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
>
>
> I suspect that eventually all US licensed pleasure craft and those entering
> the US may have to have closed systems--no overboard discharge option at
> all, forcing offshore sailors to resort to the old cedar bucket method once
> outside the control zone. Does anyone believe that is a reasonable
> alternative? I don't. But if the problem continues, it will happen. It
> happened in the Great Lakes, and it will happen on the left, right, and
> bottom coasts as well. I have no doubt of it.
>
sewage-treatment. After all, where do you think the sewage goes if you pump it
out properly? Down miles of pipes, through a sometimes-questionable treatment
plant (Victoria just pumps it out raw), and back into the ocean!
Why not just treat it at the source?
Trouble is, with "no-discharge" rules, on-board sewage treatment systems have
not been allowed to flourish and develop. (Peggy, PLEASE tell me I'm wrong!)
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
Peggie
Dave Brown
> request to his. It IS a pain to scroll down through 50+ lines to read
> your four or five pithy words. If it's too much effort for you to be
> considerate enough to "cut to the chase," you can easily reset your
> software to post your comments above the quoted post.
A year ago, I started hitting the NEXT button if there was no new text on the
screen (in a full window). The quantity of posts this NG produces in a day does
not leave a lot of time to be scrolling through the last three accumulated posts
in the thread to find one line new at the end.
Dave Brown
> If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
> search every boat?
If someone was selling pot in *my* marina, I would take steps to stop it. What
those steps would be would be contingent on the circumstances.
hkr...@capuantispam.net
I'll try to intersperse my comments in the body of the text from now on.
--
Harry Krause
------------
There ought to be limits to freedom GW Bush
Rod McInnis
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group wrote:
>
> Rich Hampel wrote:
> >
> > 1. Buy a locking deck fill replacement cap. - Boat US @ $6.00
> > 2. Replace the deck fill cap with one that says FUEL #2.
>
> And just exactly what would that accomplish except to possibly cause
> some dock hand to pump fuel into a holding tank? How many deck fills
> have you ever seen that are plumbed to anything that goes directly
> overboard? So how would any dye dropped down a deck fill end up in the
> water???
My boat is plumbed a little differently.
I don't have a Y valve between the toilet and the tank, the toilet
goes straight into the tank with no options.
Where I have a Y valve is between the tank and the deck pumpout
fitting. The second option on the Y valve goes to a pump and then a
vented loop, valve and through hull. So you could drop all the dye into
the head you wanted and pump away, it wouldn't show up in the water
until I fired up the discharge pump and emptied the tank.
Rod McInnis
Jim Donohue
years. The procedure is that every boat that ties up to the moorings there
is boarded and a yellow/green die tablet is flushed down the head. They
miss once in a while but get you at least 90% of the time. Note that they
do this even to the boats that own their own mooring.
The harbor patrol, who are at least light duty peace officers, do the job.
The harbor at Avalon does not flush well but has pristine water since the
start of this program. It does work.
A few years ago they stated that they catch more than one boat a week.
There is a small fine but the real pain is that the boat is banned for a
year.
The harbor at the Isthmus flushes pretty well and does not drop tablets.
One does occasionally see excrement in the water. I spend a lot of time in
Emerald bay which flushes very well and tends to have a consistent set of
boats. The water is very clear and I have not seen excrement though I am
sure it occasionally occurs.
At least when dealing with harbor patrol types I don't think search and
seizure rules apply. Boats have always been exempted from those rules.
Jim
Rod McInnis
Joe Della Barba wrote:
>
>
> I take it from your sig you are from California.
You haven't been around very long, have you?
Rod
Michael J Porter
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group <peg...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
=>Jeff ASKED you nicely, Harry--even said "please"...and I'm adding my
=>request to his. It IS a pain to scroll down through 50+ lines to read
=>your four or five pithy words. If it's too much effort for you to be
=>considerate enough to "cut to the chase," you can easily reset your
=>software to post your comments above the quoted post.
Actually, I don't even bother. If I haven't seen anything new in
two screens, then most likely there isn't anything other than a "me
too".
Mike
--
-
Mike Porter <mi...@udel.edu>
PGP Fingerprint: F4 AE E1 9F 67 F7 DA EA 2F D2 37 F3 99 ED D1 C2
Michael J Porter
=>No Doug .... that's not the point at all !!!!
=>
=>If I'm NOT a crap dumper; and, I'm being accused of being a crap dumper by having to continually
=>prove my innocence by surrendering my (USA) constitutional rights by submitting to random "poop
=>checks" by my marina.... then I get pissed. If you applaud this kind of authoritarianism then you
You don't have any constitutional rights here. Not that I know, of
anyway. At best, you have a contract, whose terms are upheld by
state law. You, in fact, are tentant on someone else's property.
The owner of that property is trying to protect their interests.
This is a far cry from, say, the marine police entered your
personal water front property and putting dye into the holding
tanks of your boat.
Steven Shelikoff
>
> Peggie Hall/The Hall Group wrote:
> >
> > Rich Hampel wrote:
> > >
> > > 1. Buy a locking deck fill replacement cap. - Boat US @ $6.00
> > > 2. Replace the deck fill cap with one that says FUEL #2.
> >
> > And just exactly what would that accomplish except to possibly cause
> > some dock hand to pump fuel into a holding tank? How many deck fills
> > have you ever seen that are plumbed to anything that goes directly
> > overboard? So how would any dye dropped down a deck fill end up in the
> > water???
>
> My boat is plumbed a little differently.
>
> I don't have a Y valve between the toilet and the tank, the toilet
> goes straight into the tank with no options.
If you had a Y-valve between the toilet and the tank, so what? You
could discharge your toilet into the water all day and not have any of
the dye from the tank get into the water. Dropping a dye tablet into
the pumpout deck fitting would serve no purpose in that case.
> Where I have a Y valve is between the tank and the deck pumpout
> fitting. The second option on the Y valve goes to a pump and then a
> vented loop, valve and through hull. So you could drop all the dye into
> the head you wanted and pump away, it wouldn't show up in the water
> until I fired up the discharge pump and emptied the tank.
Now here is where the dye tablet would serve a purpose. They could tell
if you were blowing your tank in the marina.
Steve
Steven Shelikoff
>
> Joe Della Barba wrote:
>
> > If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
> > search every boat?
>
> If someone was selling pot in *my* marina, I would take steps to stop it. What
> those steps would be would be contingent on the circumstances.
A few years ago we had a prostitution ring operating from a boat in my
marina. Unfortunately it was busted before I got there.:)
Steve
Dave Brown
> I'll try to intersperse my comments in the body of the text from now on.
Nice try, I could read the top half of the text you added. You needed one more
hard return before you started to type. ;-)
Got a chuckle out of me though. :-)
Brooke Stockton
don't want to cover up their naked bum and head up to the bathrooms at
midnight. The dye would be long gone by morning.
Brooke
myst...@mindspring.com
"Lloyd Sumpter" <lsum...@home.com> wrote in message
> Trouble is, with "no-discharge" rules, on-board sewage treatment
systems have
> not been allowed to flourish and develop.
Bingo. I suspect any number of economically purchased and operated systems
would be obtainable as we speak, if not for the zero-tolerance policies now
in effect.
Jeff
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
Weeeelll...it's not entirely due to the "no discharge" mentality. For
the first decade after the FWPC Act of 1977 was passed, all the focus
was on cleaning up industry...nobody was paying much attention to
boats--and we all know that no boat owner ever spends money for a
holding tank or treatment device until he has to...so there was no
incentive in the form of demand for mfrs to invest in R&D. By the
mid-late '80s, industry was pretty well cleaned up, and the
environmentalists needed a new target...we were the most visible (and
easiest to resent as "fat cat 'yacht' owners"), so we got elected.
Unfortunately, by then the equipment mfrs were too far behind the curve
to stay ahead of the "no discharge" push...so the whole thing became a
catch-22: if there's not gonna be a market for 'em, none of the mfrs
were willing--again--to invest in R&D.
However, there IS hope...boat owners starting to get fed up with lack of
pumpouts...states are finding out that the cost-benefits ratio for
enforcement doesn't make sense...marinas are looking for alternatives to
the high cost of maintaining pumpouts and pumper trucks (all those
chemicals can't go into a septic system)...municipalities are starting
to look at the holding tank chemcial impact on sewage treatment
plants...and--except for the hard core environuts--we're starting to
look for better alternatives. Plus, there's a bill in Congress proposing
a new MUCH higher standard for treatment and revising the law to permit
boats equipped with devices which meet that higher standard to use them
in lieu of holding tanks, even in "no discharge" water. All of that
combined gives the equipment mfrs a reason to at least start thinking
about new equipment, if not actually start to spend money developing
anything yet.
We're a "bandwagon" society...we jump on any that play a tune we
like--and jump off again as soon as we get bored with the tune. And more
and more people are starting to realize that "no discharge" is a
bandwagon that's starting to cost more to ride than it's worth.
Peggie
N Tolstikhin
anyone here advise me where
to buy those dye tablets?
Thank you.
Nestor Tolstikhin.
macleanpd
WOW!!!!! guess I wasn't to tactful. Anyways I could have said my piece
better. Although I DO NOT like the thought of someone boarding my boat I
would allow it IF there was a known problem in the marina. It means that
much to me to get rid of the offenders. I love boating and clean waters and
it is so hard for me to understand how other BOATERS could dump their
systems where they keep their boats (but I know it happens). Their actions
give all boaters a black eye and will surely result in more stringent
regulations in the future. Don't get me wrong I'm not a radical tree-hugger
but the thought of floating my boat in other peoples WASTE is rather
repulsive. Is the marinas action illegal?-I don't think it is but I'm not
sure. I have seen in my area where there is allot of lakes where the homes
have septic systems, the drain commission come into private homes and
perform dye tests. I do think it would be better if the boat owner was
onboard when the dye was added but that might make it easier for offenders
to get away with their evil deed. This subject (dumping ) is a real sore
spot with me as I am sure civil rights are with others. Still the dumping
problem HAS to be resolved! Perhaps there are some compromises that could be
made and still get the job done. If I have offended any non-violators - I
apologize- To the violators I hope there is a way you can get caught.
My semi-humble opinion Doug
Jim Donohue
If the harbor is patrolled they will pick it up every time.
The only real defense is to throw four or five more at various places in the
marina to confuse the issue.
Jim
"Brooke Stockton" <brooke_...@ins.com> wrote in message
news:Ie6B5.2052$4Q5....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
David Smalley
>
> The dyes used are fluorescent. You will not miss them even on a dark night.
> If the harbor is patrolled they will pick it up every time.
>
> The only real defense is to throw four or five more at various places in the
> marina to confuse the issue.
Brilliant!
myst...@mindspring.com
"Peggie Hall/The Hall Group" <peg...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> However, there IS hope...boat owners starting to get fed up with lack of
> pumpouts...states are finding out that the cost-benefits ratio for
> enforcement doesn't make sense...marinas are looking for alternatives to
> the high cost of maintaining pumpouts and pumper trucks (all those
> chemicals can't go into a septic system)...municipalities are starting
> to look at the holding tank chemcial impact on sewage treatment
> plants...and--except for the hard core environuts--we're starting to
> look for better alternatives.
I agree with everything you said, Peggie, but I believe your above paragraph
probably suggests the most probable reason to hold out hope. When there's
no place to dump the holding tank effluent, then an alternative will have to
be found. Then the clean discharge bandwagon will be playing a pleasant
tune.
So when are you starting your next business--that of developing the
technology and equipment for same?
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"Jim Donohue" <jim_d...@computer.org> wrote in message
> The dyes used are fluorescent. You will not miss them even on a dark
night.
> If the harbor is patrolled they will pick it up every time.
>
> The only real defense is to throw four or five more at various places in
the
> marina to confuse the issue.
What a great insight! Now I know how to get rid of that obnoxious boater on
the hook next to me who persists in running his genset all night long. <G>
Jeff
Jim Donohue
harbor? Sounds creative. However it would work better if you were trying
to cover the noise of your own generator.
Jim
<myst...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8r3lt5$kqd$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
>
> I have a suspicion that the waste tank on my Niagara 35' is leaking. Can
> anyone here advise me where
> to buy those dye tablets?
Red food coloring is all you need, and you can get it from any grocery
store. Pump and rinse the tank, fill it with water, and pour in a
bottle.
Peggie
Joe Della Barba
wrote:
>
>
>Joe Della Barba wrote:
>>
>>
>> I take it from your sig you are from California.
>
>
> You haven't been around very long, have you?
>
>
>Rod
OK OK my bad................it was a long day :)
Joe Della Barba
<da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:
>Joe Della Barba wrote:
>
>> If someone was caught running pot would you have drug dogs routinely
>> search every boat?
>
>If someone was selling pot in *my* marina, I would take steps to stop it. What
>those steps would be would be contingent on the circumstances.
>
>--
>Regards,
>
> Dave Brown
> Brown's Marina
> http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
By all means if someone is selling pot at your marina, do us all a
favor and kick them out.
Just don't get the bright idea to check all the other boats which have
done nothing wrong just to make sure they aren't.
Joe
Keith
>
> The dyes used are fluorescent. You will not miss them even on a dark night.
> If the harbor is patrolled they will pick it up every time.
>
> The only real defense is to throw four or five more at various places in the
> marina to confuse the issue.
>
>
> "Brooke Stockton" <brooke_...@ins.com> wrote in message
> news:Ie6B5.2052$4Q5....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Especially true because alot of overboard stuff occurs at night, people
> > don't want to cover up their naked bum and head up to the bathrooms at
> > midnight. The dye would be long gone by morning.
> >
> > Brooke
> >
> >
> >
Ok, anybody know where to buy these tablets? Since they're "EPA
approved" I'd like to throw a couple in the water to see what happens.
Heck... might add them to my safety gear! By the way, the marina that
I'm referring to is South Shore Harbor Marina, in League City, TX on
Clear Lake. Clear Lake opens out into Galveston Bay.
--
__________________
Keith
'I never met a piece of chocolate I didn't like.'
Keith
>
> "macleanpd" <macl...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their
> boats
> > and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
> > Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
>
> After sustaining one very nasty sleepless night with dysentery after
> swimming in a harbor in the BVI, apparently after someone had pumped his
> head and I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'd
> tend to believe that only a complete jerk would pump his head overboard in a
> crowded marina. Since, as we all know, there is no predicted shortage of
> complete jerks, I'd say the problem is a serious and frequently recurrent
> one. While I'm not in favor of surrendering my personal rights and freedoms
> to governmental agencies, I don't have an alternative for catching the
> violators, short of posting a team of scuba divers near the head discharge
> thru-hulls of every boat at all hours of the day and night.
>
> That some people will always find it desirable to pump overboard rather than
> pay for a pumpout is sadly a given. Until someone comes up with an
> alternative to the dye tablets, it seems to be the most innocuous method we
> currently have for catching violators in the act.
>
> I suspect that eventually all US licensed pleasure craft and those entering
> the US may have to have closed systems--no overboard discharge option at
> all, forcing offshore sailors to resort to the old cedar bucket method once
> outside the control zone. Does anyone believe that is a reasonable
> alternative? I don't. But if the problem continues, it will happen. It
> happened in the Great Lakes, and it will happen on the left, right, and
> bottom coasts as well. I have no doubt of it.
>
> Jeff
Wonder how the marina will handle it when they find a big splotch of dye
surrounding several boats? I mean, it someone with a dye tablet does
pump out, it's not going to stay right in their slip! The finger piers
that separate the boats are about 3' wide. I just hope that if it
happens to me, I have at least a half full tank!
It sounds like they plan to just drop the tablets in the pumpout deck
fitting. Sure hope they don't throw one in the fuel or fresh water tanks
by accident.
--
__________________
Keith
Are you a Klingon, or is that a turtle on your head?
David Smalley
>
> Joe Della Barba wrote:
>
> > By all means if someone is selling pot at your marina, do us all a
> > favor and kick them out.
> > Just don't get the bright idea to check all the other boats which have
> > done nothing wrong just to make sure they aren't.
>
Put green dye in everyone's tanks?
Joe Della Barba
<da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:
>You jumped one step -- how does one find out who the culprit is first?
>
>
>--
>Regards,
>
> Dave Brown
> Brown's Marina
> http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
If I ran a marina and I had some reliable information that someone was
(selling pot/dumping their holding tank) in the marina, I would invite
them to move their boat someplace else.
I would not (search all boats with dogs/dump dye in all boats) just to
see who might be up to no good. I kind of like the "presumed innocent"
system myself.
Joe
Gloveman
> (selling pot/dumping their holding tank) in the marina, I would invite
> them to move their boat someplace else.
> I would not (search all boats with dogs/dump dye in all boats) just to
> see who might be up to no good. I kind of like the "presumed innocent"
> system myself.
> Joe
>
There are far too many people, even
in this NG that believe the ends justify
the means. I too believe in the
"presumed innocent" system
J R North
JR
Keith wrote:
>
> Boy, here's a new one. In our monthly "threat" letter (AKA marina
> newsletter) from South Shore Harbor Marina, there was an article about
> people dumping their heads in the marina. Of course I agree that this
> shouldn't be done, but listen to this line....
>
> "We have already procured EPA approved dye tablets and will begin
> randomly dropping them in holding tanks around the marina. If you find a
> yellow-green stain in your bilge, it will lead you to the leak that has
> ben the source of annoying odors in your boat. If you find the dye in
> the water all around your boat, it will lead you in search of another
> marina."
>
> I suppose my first question is... where do they think they have the
> right to put things into the tanks on my boat!!!??? Second...how will
> this dye crap affect my holding tank and the chemicals, etc. that are in
> there. Peggy... you ever heard of this before?
> --
> __________________
> Keith
> For 20 dollars, I'll give you a good tagline next time ...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Dave Brown
> By all means if someone is selling pot at your marina, do us all a
> favor and kick them out.
> Just don't get the bright idea to check all the other boats which have
> done nothing wrong just to make sure they aren't.
You jumped one step -- how does one find out who the culprit is first?
Terry Spragg
have no liberty, and persuit of happiness does not even enter in to
it. If society wants clean water, it must provide fully adequate
facilities, even including the homeless. That was a period, folks.
If you must, you shit over the side. It's legal. If you don't like
it, don't boat. There are more fish and shrimp, etc pooping in the
water than you can even try to imagine. Without that biological
input, there would be no life in the sea. Industrial wastes are
much more devastating. Poop is good for you, even if local
concentrations offend your delicate nose. You are all made out of
poop digested a thousand times. Get over it.
If you require privacy, I suggest you arrange a shower curtain to
hang over the transom, or as an apron, with a couple of oars lashed
so as to provide buttock support, or handles a la French pissiors,
on your pushpit or 'swim ladder'. Ladies can learn to urinate
standing up, or through their swimsuits. I have seen demo films, it
is easy.
If you are truly concerned about water quality, go after the
industrial polluters with their heavy metal and other TOXIC
effluent! Disperse feedlots. You have been blindsided by your own
government, and should be mad about it. The indians are right!
Pant! Gasp! Rave mode off.
Campaign promises are legally binding contracts with the
electorate. Prosecute hypocritical politicians. No immunity.
Boating is fun. Life is a beach. Use your brain.
Pierre just died.
Michael J Porter wrote:
>
> Rich Hampel <Rhm...@att.net> wrote:
> =>No Doug .... that's not the point at all !!!!
> =>
> =>If I'm NOT a crap dumper; and, I'm being accused of being a crap dumper by having to continually
> =>prove my innocence by surrendering my (USA) constitutional rights by submitting to random "poop
> =>checks" by my marina.... then I get pissed. If you applaud this kind of authoritarianism then you
>
> You don't have any constitutional rights here. Not that I know, of
> anyway. At best, you have a contract, whose terms are upheld by
> state law. You, in fact, are tentant on someone else's property.
> The owner of that property is trying to protect their interests.
No one owns the land! It owns us! We are made of it, and it will eat
us, and shit us out again, as is it's right to do. At best, we
contract with local powers to husband it for the common good of our
tribe, and with that obligation, achieve the civilly agreed upon
'right' to occupy it temporarily.
Terry K
Terry Spragg
Keith wrote:
>
> myst...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > "macleanpd" <macl...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > > Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their
> > boats
> > > and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
> > > Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
> >
> > After sustaining one very nasty sleepless night with dysentery after
> > swimming in a harbor in the BVI,
Probably from a dirty finger in the weiner factory!
Terry K
myst...@mindspring.com
"Terry Spragg" <tksp...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> The right to life includes the right to shit. In this regard, we
> have no liberty, and persuit of happiness does not even enter in to
> it. If society wants clean water, it must provide fully adequate
> facilities, even including the homeless. That was a period, folks.
>
> If you must, you shit over the side. It's legal. If you don't like
> it, don't boat. There are more fish and shrimp, etc pooping in the
> water than you can even try to imagine. Without that biological
> input, there would be no life in the sea. Industrial wastes are
> much more devastating. Poop is good for you, even if local
> concentrations offend your delicate nose. You are all made out of
> poop digested a thousand times. Get over it.
>
> If you require privacy, I suggest you arrange a shower curtain to
> hang over the transom, or as an apron, with a couple of oars lashed
> so as to provide buttock support, or handles a la French pissiors,
> on your pushpit or 'swim ladder'. Ladies can learn to urinate
> standing up, or through their swimsuits. I have seen demo films, it
> is easy.
>
> If you are truly concerned about water quality, go after the
> industrial polluters with their heavy metal and other TOXIC
> effluent! Disperse feedlots. You have been blindsided by your own
> government, and should be mad about it. The indians are right!
> Pant! Gasp! Rave mode off.
Whew! Thank you. Actually what you are describing rings pretty similar to
some of the Third-World countries in SE Asia where they do pretty much what
you are describing here. And I believe the attendant health problems
associated with a complete lack of sanitation are universally well known.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
> > > After sustaining one very nasty sleepless night with dysentery after
> > > swimming in a harbor in the BVI,
> Probably from a dirty finger in the weiner factory!
We ate aboard that night--can't recall the menu, but no one else got the
Rasta's revenge. And I was the only one that swam. My bad.
Jeff
Jeff
Lloyd Sumpter
I gotta smile at this thread...(serious reply - I agree that the
Marina does not have a right to board my boat without my permission, any
more than my landlord has a right to enter my appt.)
At my marina, I suspect there are many boats that dump their heads
directly into the water. And many that do "drug deals" or at least smoke
pot, by the smell of the air on a Saturday night. And I wouldn't be too
surprised if there were some prostitutes around.
But it's a good marina, everybody looks out for everyone else, and
they leave you alone if you want, and they CERTAINLY wouldn't board the
boat without your permission for something as stupid as dropping a dye
marker in your holding tank (other marina tenants have re-tied my boat
many times, though, and I thank them for that.)
BTW - funny thing: although as I said, many boats dump their heads
overboard, there sure is a LOT of marine life in the marina! There was a
huge hatch of baby crabs there, there's always schools of fish, and I
had a hell of a time trying to catch the fish and prawns scampering
around Mr. Roberts when I raised her. I suspect the only "environmental
damage" done by the sewage refers to "human environment".
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
Joe Della Barba wrote:
>
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:01:08 -0400, Dave Brown
trash
"Terry Spragg" <tksp...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:39D6AD05...@nbnet.nb.ca...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
trash
hiring crap cops to police everyone is quite another.
<myst...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8r7biu$o0j$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "Terry Spragg" <tksp...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> > The right to life includes the right to shit. In this regard, we
> > have no liberty, and persuit of happiness does not even enter in to
> > it. If society wants clean water, it must provide fully adequate
> > facilities, even including the homeless. That was a period, folks.
> >
> > If you must, you shit over the side. It's legal. If you don't like
> > it, don't boat. There are more fish and shrimp, etc pooping in the
> > water than you can even try to imagine. Without that biological
> > input, there would be no life in the sea. Industrial wastes are
> > much more devastating. Poop is good for you, even if local
> > concentrations offend your delicate nose. You are all made out of
> > poop digested a thousand times. Get over it.
> >
> > If you require privacy, I suggest you arrange a shower curtain to
> > hang over the transom, or as an apron, with a couple of oars lashed
> > so as to provide buttock support, or handles a la French pissiors,
> > on your pushpit or 'swim ladder'. Ladies can learn to urinate
> > standing up, or through their swimsuits. I have seen demo films, it
> > is easy.
> >
> > If you are truly concerned about water quality, go after the
> > industrial polluters with their heavy metal and other TOXIC
> > effluent! Disperse feedlots. You have been blindsided by your own
> > government, and should be mad about it. The indians are right!
> > Pant! Gasp! Rave mode off.
>
> Whew! Thank you. Actually what you are describing rings pretty similar
to
> some of the Third-World countries in SE Asia where they do pretty much
what
> you are describing here. And I believe the attendant health problems
> associated with a complete lack of sanitation are universally well known.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
Gordon Keeton
Marina call the Coast Guard if the Marina is on Coast Guard waters. They
are looking for people dumping. And the fourth admendment does not apply
to the CG. They can come onboard any time they want.
To me and I was running the Marina and someone would not let me drop
dye into the boat's holding tank. I would believe this guy has something
to hide. And when the lease on the slip comes up, I would not renew the
lease. And let the other Marina operators know that I am not renewing some
leases becouse of the truble I am having with the boat's owner. And I
would have all my new contracts to give the Marina the right to check for
anything needed to protect the Marina. I can not believe that there would
be a Marina out there that dosen't have it already.
Gordon
Terry Spragg
>
> > > > After sustaining one very nasty sleepless night with dysentery after
> > > > swimming in a harbor in the BVI,
>
> > Probably from a dirty finger in the weiner factory!
>
>
> Jeff
Can we agree you had the runs for a day? Possibly from a doorknob
and a nose scratch, followed by licking your lips? Perhaps a dirty
can opener? There is nothing to prevent one weiner or egg turning
critical first in the pack, nor any statement that you ate the most,
or the least, or the one sick lobster or oyster. Still could have
been the gravy. While it is possible the water you swam in was
evil, you need to know before you blame anything for certain.
Please don't think I'm defending poop dumpers.
A little too much young wine can chain me to the john for a day, and
I very seldom drink enough to get drunk.
Dear Abbey tells us, believably, that most food poisoning incidents
are caused by old style grungy can openers, and a low level dose may
only indicate that you were the most susceptible. It is the long
festering droplet that is usually to blame, not so much sea water
with happy krill eating everything nutritious and dissassembling
it's harmful-to-us constituents in an environment not condusive to
propogation of the specific organism which may have caused you to
suffer a reaction.
The new 'outside cut' style of can opener is much safer in design,
gets less contaminated by can contents which then fester and share a
nutrition path with you, and it is easier to keep clean.
Was the anchorage crowded, or were you next to the infamous
innocuous sewage pipe onshore, near the docks? One turd in an ocean
is not the same as an overloaded shoreside sewage treatment outflow
near your boat after a rainy day, in a poorly flushed harbour
between tides. Cities of dogs, lawn runoff and tetracycline
enriched feed lots contribute more than most realise. A specific
chemical poison low level industrial waste could inhibit otherwise
efficient biological recyclers.
We more need methodical research than emotionally charged unproved
suspicions.
Terry K
Del Cecchi
>
> I gotta smile at this thread...(serious reply - I agree that the
> Marina does not have a right to board my boat without my permission, any
> more than my landlord has a right to enter my appt.)
> At my marina, I suspect there are many boats that dump their heads
> directly into the water. And many that do "drug deals" or at least smoke
> pot, by the smell of the air on a Saturday night. And I wouldn't be too
> surprised if there were some prostitutes around.
> But it's a good marina, everybody looks out for everyone else, and
> they leave you alone if you want, and they CERTAINLY wouldn't board the
> boat without your permission for something as stupid as dropping a dye
> marker in your holding tank (other marina tenants have re-tied my boat
> many times, though, and I thank them for that.)
> BTW - funny thing: although as I said, many boats dump their heads
> overboard, there sure is a LOT of marine life in the marina! There was a
> huge hatch of baby crabs there, there's always schools of fish, and I
> had a hell of a time trying to catch the fish and prawns scampering
> around Mr. Roberts when I raised her. I suspect the only "environmental
> damage" done by the sewage refers to "human environment".
How long does hepatitis virus live in saltwater? just one of the little
nasties that don't bother the fish or crabs.
Max Lynn
flourescent dye markers for rescue marker purposes. I regularly pick up the
pill from the Avalon, Catalina harbor department. They have significantly
improved the water quality in theAvalon harbor since they were instituted.
I wait until I'm well offshore to pump my holding tank, but the discharge is
visible at night(and obviously in the day). There are various methods to
defeat their purpose, but the effort is generally not worth it.
"Keith" <klem...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:E8542F98E068F541.988740AF...@lp.airnews.net...
Max Lynn
although I'm a little less optomistic. Where we do have effective
regulation of zero discharge(e.g., Avalon harbor), the pumpout industry
seems to be flourishing.
<myst...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8r3lln$6rl$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Lloyd Sumpter
>
> Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
> >
> > BTW - funny thing: although as I said, many boats dump their heads
> > overboard, there sure is a LOT of marine life in the marina! There was a
> > huge hatch of baby crabs there, there's always schools of fish, and I
> > had a hell of a time trying to catch the fish and prawns scampering
> > around Mr. Roberts when I raised her. I suspect the only "environmental
> > damage" done by the sewage refers to "human environment".
>
> How long does hepatitis virus live in saltwater? just one of the little
> nasties that don't bother the fish or crabs.
If they don't bother the fish or the crabs, why bother about it? The
environmentalists try to make us believe they're doing all this "for the
environment" when in truth they're doing it for us humans.
Gould 0738
>nasties that don't bother the fish or crabs.
Good question. Does it live in salt water at all? And if 1 microgram of virus
gets flushed into 10 billion gallons of water, how dangerous is it, really? And
how about temperature? Most of the little bugs that attack people are
particularly happy at 98.6 degrees, so what happens to them when they encounter
the 50 degree saltwater in the North Wet?
(There is no hepatitis virus in properly treated sewage, but that doesn't
justify pumping overboard in a marina.)
Maybe our situation is different in our cold water climate. Nobody is swimming
in a marina. Nobody much swims (voluntarily) 'round here at all. It's hard to
imagine that anyhbody would be swimming in a busy marina, anyway, even if the
water were warm.
If somebody were to flush overboard in a marina, it would seem that somebody in
the water and taking a big drink right next to the toilet through hull probably
would get
a nasty surprise. If somebody flushes out
100 yards away, it's hard to imagine that it would make any difference at all.
________
Chuck Gould
Float and let float.
Terry Spragg
reproduce until it is inside a suitable live host. As a lost orphan
in the ocean, it is food for the krill, and is dissassembled by it.
I believe the virus is also destroyed by sunlight.
If this was not true for most pathogens, the ocean would be one
solid mass of pus.
Terry K
Del Cecchi wrote:
>
> Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
> >
> > I gotta smile at this thread...(serious reply - I agree that the
> > Marina does not have a right to board my boat without my permission, any
> > more than my landlord has a right to enter my appt.)
> > At my marina, I suspect there are many boats that dump their heads
> > directly into the water. And many that do "drug deals" or at least smoke
> > pot, by the smell of the air on a Saturday night. And I wouldn't be too
> > surprised if there were some prostitutes around.
> > But it's a good marina, everybody looks out for everyone else, and
> > they leave you alone if you want, and they CERTAINLY wouldn't board the
> > boat without your permission for something as stupid as dropping a dye
> > marker in your holding tank (other marina tenants have re-tied my boat
> > many times, though, and I thank them for that.)
> > BTW - funny thing: although as I said, many boats dump their heads
> > overboard, there sure is a LOT of marine life in the marina! There was a
> > huge hatch of baby crabs there, there's always schools of fish, and I
> > had a hell of a time trying to catch the fish and prawns scampering
> > around Mr. Roberts when I raised her. I suspect the only "environmental
> > damage" done by the sewage refers to "human environment".
>
> How long does hepatitis virus live in saltwater? just one of the little
> nasties that don't bother the fish or crabs.
> >
myst...@mindspring.com
"Del Cecchi" <dce...@ibm.net> wrote in message
> How long does hepatitis virus live in saltwater? just one of the little
> nasties that don't bother the fish or crabs.
Viruses are obligate intracellular parasites, Lloyd. Outside a suitable
host organism they cannot reproduce.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"trash" <sloop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Sanitation is one thing - being forced to install NASA priced toilets and
> hiring crap cops to police everyone is quite another.
This is the US government we're talking about here, Trashman. Crap in the
water enough and NASA WILL be designing our MSDs, and we WILL have Crapper
Cops crawling all over our boats. There's a hard and irrefutable rule of
life which probably applies to this issue as well: If you think it's bad
now, stick around.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"Gordon Keeton" <gor...@zimmer.csufresno.edu> wrote in message
> If someone will not let the Marina check for dumping just have the
> Marina call the Coast Guard if the Marina is on Coast Guard waters. They
> are looking for people dumping. And the fourth admendment does not apply
> to the CG. They can come onboard any time they want.
> To me and I was running the Marina and someone would not let me drop
> dye into the boat's holding tank. I would believe this guy has something
> to hide. And when the lease on the slip comes up, I would not renew the
> lease. And let the other Marina operators know that I am not renewing some
> leases becouse of the truble I am having with the boat's owner. And I
> would have all my new contracts to give the Marina the right to check for
> anything needed to protect the Marina. I can not believe that there would
> be a Marina out there that dosen't have it already.
I stand by my original statement--anyone who is pumping their head or
holding tank overboard in a crowded marina is an idiot and a jerk.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"Terry Spragg" <tksp...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> We more need methodical research than emotionally charged unproved
> suspicions.
The abdominal cramps and diarrhea lasted less than 12 hours, consistent with
lower GI coliform infections. And I almost never have anything of the sort.
My GI system seems to be resilient to nearly anything--anything but raw
sewage. You are correct in that there are other possibilities. But I was
there, you weren't. And I know my system; you don't. I'm in health
care--are you? I stand by my assumption that it was most likely swimming in
polluted water.
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"Max Lynn" <max...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> Where we do have effective
> regulation of zero discharge(e.g., Avalon harbor), the pumpout industry
> seems to be flourishing.
But for how long? As Peggie pointed out, the chemicals used in MS holding
tanks may not be allowed in public sewage systems much longer. When that
happens, the pumpout industry will vanish.
Jeff
Terry Spragg
line. Do you always get PO'd when anyone doubts your august opinion,
my leige?
If you do not have evidence, you are left with a bare opinion. Maybe
you ingested a jellyfish, how do you know? I have seen my young
daughter (at age 9) upchuck only the 13 peas she was 'urged' to eat
at the dinner table. Doesn't mean they were poisonous, just that we
do not allways respond logically. You may have suffered an
hysterical reaction, after someone suggested that the harbour was
dirty. Possible? It seems likely that the water was not obviously
filthy, or you would not have gone swimming, no?
Lynch mobs often act on suspicion and emotional impressions.
The fact that you 'are in health care' is not neccessarily anything
to boast about. Isn't dysentary a disorder caused by a particular
group of organisms, with much more pronounced symptoms and signs? I
don't have a medical encyclopaedia handy.
Terry K
Rich Hampel
the legal turning point where you WILL lose considerable money in a litigation if you cannot
definitely PROVE that the alleged offender did actually do the crime and you have bomb-proof
evidence, witnesses to the bomb-proof evidence, etc.
Please let me know when you start a marina, I could use all the extra money that you will put at
risk for yourself.
Gordon Keeton wrote:
>
> If someone will not let the Marina check for dumping just have the
> Marina call the Coast Guard if the Marina is on Coast Guard waters. They
> are looking for people dumping. And the fourth admendment does not apply
> to the CG. They can come onboard any time they want.
> To me and I was running the Marina and someone would not let me drop
> dye into the boat's holding tank. I would believe this guy has something
> to hide. And when the lease on the slip comes up, I would not renew the
> lease. And let the other Marina operators know that I am not renewing some
> leases becouse of the truble I am having with the boat's owner. And I
> would have all my new contracts to give the Marina the right to check for
> anything needed to protect the Marina. I can not believe that there would
> be a Marina out there that dosen't have it already.
>
Michael J Porter
Gould 0738 <goul...@aol.comspamkill> wrote:
=>Doug wrote:
=>
=>>Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their boats
=>>and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
=>>Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
=>>
=>
=>The angst has nothing to do with defending those who crap into the marina. It's
=>about
=>the right against unreasonable search and seizure.
I guess I still don't understand all this "rights" stuff. The
people doing the tablet dumping are not police, and they are not
doing it on your "property" in the constitutional sense. You are
keeping your boat on their property. You signed a contract with
them (which presumably gives them the right to enter your boat and
put tablets in the tank).
Our marina was owned by a newbie marina owner, and he came up with
a number of strange ideas. Some were in the contract, and some
weren't. I was free to move. I suppose if he started doing
something I didn't like, and wasn't covered in the contract, I
could demand the rent paid in advance be returned and I could leave
(contract violation).
There's got to be a better way to handle this problem, so I would
consider the marina management fairly incompentent and consider
moving.
I get a lot more upset about communities passing no anchoring laws
and other regulations of questionable validity.
Mike
--
-
Mike Porter <mi...@udel.edu>
PGP Fingerprint: F4 AE E1 9F 67 F7 DA EA 2F D2 37 F3 99 ED D1 C2
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
>
> But for how long? As Peggie pointed out, the chemicals used in MS holding
> tanks may not be allowed in public sewage systems much longer.
I never said that. I said that there's a lot of concern over the impact
of many holding tank chemicals on sewage treatment plants.
> When that
> happens, the pumpout industry will vanish.
It's NOT gonna happen. At most, the use of some chemicals--such as
gluteraldehyde (which is what at least company went to in order to be
able to label their products "non-formaldehyde formula," but which is
even more lethal than formaldehyde), quaternary ammonium compounds, and
a few others--will be banned...but the day will never come--at least not
in our lifetime--when the pumpout industry will vanish...'cuz the day
will never come when the majority of boats have anything but a holding
tank.
Holding tanks chemicals are only a small part of the sewage treatment
problem...we've become a society that's obsessed with killing
germs...all the holding tank chemicals in the world are a drop in the
bucket compared to the anti-bacterial products that go down household
drains. IMHO the only things keeping sewage treatment plants functioning
are toilet waste and garbage disposals...we're poisoning everything else
that ends ups in 'em with chemical toilet bowl cleaners, anti-bacterial
soaps and cleaning products. It's ludicrous--and even more so when you
realize that it's many of the same germ-obsessed people who are putting
all that poison down their drains who won't touch anything but
organically grown produce, protest the use of pesticides and
herbicides...and spend extra money for "biodegradable" products.
Lloyd Sumpter
>
> In article <20000929011838...@ng-ci1.aol.com>,
> Gould 0738 <goul...@aol.comspamkill> wrote:
> =>Doug wrote:
> =>
> =>>Amazing!!!! People are dumping crap in the water where they keep their boats
> =>>and the chest thumpers don't want to help them get rid of these people!
> =>>Think they will complain as they watch the turds go floating by ?
> =>>
> =>
> =>The angst has nothing to do with defending those who crap into the marina. It's
> =>about
> =>the right against unreasonable search and seizure.
>
> I guess I still don't understand all this "rights" stuff. The
> people doing the tablet dumping are not police, and they are not
> doing it on your "property" in the constitutional sense. You are
> keeping your boat on their property. You signed a contract with
> them (which presumably gives them the right to enter your boat and
> put tablets in the tank).
>
I would compare a marina to an appt building. Suppose there was evidence that
someone was keeping a pet in a no-pets building. Even if the units were rentals,
the landlord would NOT have the right to search each appt. for a pet without the
owners permission, or at least 24hrs notice, without some "reasonable cause". If
the appts were owned (a closer analogy to the marina situation), there's NO WAY
the strata council, etc. could enter your appt to look for the pet. (I know
this, I used to be on the Strata Council for my owned appt)
So no, even though the marina owns the marina, they have no right to board
your boat if they suspect *someone* is dumping their heads in the marina.
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - in the True North, Strong and FREE!
johnny...@hotmail.com
Lloyd Sumpter <lsum...@home.com> wrote:
> Michael J Porter wrote:
> >
> > You signed a contract with
> > them (which presumably gives them the right to enter your boat and
> > put tablets in the tank).
> >
> I don't know about the US, but...
> I would compare a marina to an appt building.
Your analogy is useless. The contract is the point here, not property
rights in absence of an agreement. You can analogize Mr. Porter's
presumptive contract to a lease/management agreement that specifically
allowed the super to enter and inspect.
Even in the great white north, you can't (legally) complain about what
you've properly agreed to.
js
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gloveman
<myst...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8ra6v4$o0$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "Terry Spragg" <tksp...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>
> > We more need methodical research than emotionally charged unproved
> > suspicions.
>
>
> The abdominal cramps and diarrhea lasted less than 12 hours, consistent
with
> lower GI coliform infections. And I almost never have anything of the
sort.
> My GI system seems to be resilient to nearly anything--anything but raw
> sewage. You are correct in that there are other possibilities. But I was
> there, you weren't. And I know my system; you don't. I'm in health
> care--are you? I stand by my assumption that it was most likely swimming
in
> polluted water.
>
> Jeff
>
I think the "assumption"thing was the point!
myst...@mindspring.com
> line. Do you always get PO'd when anyone doubts your august opinion,
> my leige?
Don't mistake sound debating techniques for sensitivity. I was not rankled
in the least--merely stating fact. If I'm PO'd you'll know it. Check out
Deja News in rec.motorcycles when some idiot called Viet Nam vets a bunch of
whining pussies. That should give you a good idea of my words when angry.
> If you do not have evidence, you are left with a bare opinion.
As were you. And as I pointed out, I was in a better position to draw an
opinion on the matter because I was there and I know my own system. <G>
(That means "grin" so you won't think I'm PO'd.)
> Maybe
> you ingested a jellyfish, how do you know? I have seen my young
> daughter (at age 9) upchuck only the 13 peas she was 'urged' to eat
> at the dinner table. Doesn't mean they were poisonous, just that we
> do not allways respond logically. You may have suffered an
> hysterical reaction, after someone suggested that the harbour was
> dirty. Possible?
Not a chance. I didn't vomit--rather I had severe abdominal cramping and
diarrhea. Prior to the onset, I was just one very laid-back Caribbean
camper. I don't tend toward hysteria in any aspects of my life, and I had
been well aware of the fact that MSDs pump directly over there, but never
gave it much thought. Until that night. <G>
>It seems likely that the water was not obviously
> filthy, or you would not have gone swimming, no?
True. But last I checked, E. coli is microscopic.
> Lynch mobs often act on suspicion and emotional impressions.
I don't. I simply chose the most likely possibility. I generally have a
cast iron stomach and GI. I can count the number of times I've had
dysentery on one hand. And whether my posts sound emotional or not, I'm a
rather emotionally level person. <G>
> The fact that you 'are in health care' is not neccessarily anything
> to boast about. Isn't dysentary a disorder caused by a particular
> group of organisms, with much more pronounced symptoms and signs? I
> don't have a medical encyclopaedia handy.
Dysentery is an acute infection of the bowel, regardless of the cause.
Often it is parasitic, but it can be bacterial or viral as well. There are
many organisms which can infect the bowel, including some which live there
subclinically until the delicate balance of normal flora is disturbed. And
the inference of being in health care is only that I may have an advantage
in making determinations of the cause of certain illnesses, since I deal
with them in my work and have done so in my studies. <G>
Relax, Terry. I'm not angry with you or anyone else. But I do love to
debate. And while I might sound a little ruffled from time to time, rest
assured I'm only using whatever argument best suits my needs at the time.
I'm not really that sensitive--to the contrary I probably am too
insensitive, and don't take into account how others may view my words. My
apology if I led you to believe you'd gotten my dander up. <G>
Jeff
myst...@mindspring.com
"Peggie Hall/The Hall Group" <peg...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:39D8D0D7...@bellsouth.net...
> myst...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > But for how long? As Peggie pointed out, the chemicals used in MS
holding
> > tanks may not be allowed in public sewage systems much longer.
>
> I never said that. I said that there's a lot of concern over the impact
> of many holding tank chemicals on sewage treatment plants.
>
> > When that
> > happens, the pumpout industry will vanish.
>
> It's NOT gonna happen. At most, the use of some chemicals--such as
> gluteraldehyde (which is what at least company went to in order to be
> able to label their products "non-formaldehyde formula," but which is
> even more lethal than formaldehyde), quaternary ammonium compounds, and
> a few others--will be banned...but the day will never come--at least not
> in our lifetime--when the pumpout industry will vanish...'cuz the day
> will never come when the majority of boats have anything but a holding
> tank.
Sorry, Peggie. T'was not my intent to misquote or misinterpret your words.
Your point is well taken, and I stand corrected.
Jeff
Peggie Hall/The Hall Group
Peggie
Michael J Porter
=> So no, even though the marina owns the marina, they have no right to board
=>your boat if they suspect *someone* is dumping their heads in the marina.
I believe I stipulated that boarding boats is in the contract. I'm
pretty sure it is in mine. The actual point in the contract is
probably something related to safety or good of the marina.
Certainly if I chafe through a line, the marina can board my boat
to fix the line (and charge me for doing so). If my slip
neighbor's alarm starts going off at 12:00 midnight, I'd want
someone to board the boat and turn it off.
Whether or not someone pumping out is in any way related to
whatever the terms of the lease are is not something we can
determine here since we don't know what the contract is.
But, whatever the case, "rights", constitutional rights, as some
posters have stated, has nothing to do with this.
For the record, if a marina wanted to board my boat and put dye in
the holding tank, I would request the unused portion of my rent be
returned, and I would move to a different marina. Maybe. If
someone was really stinking up the marina, and there was no other
way, then maybe not. Maybe the marina is just issueing the policy
so they can put dye in the tank of the boat they already suspect.
But constitutional rights being violated? Let's reserve that
argument for when they really are.
Mike
=>Lloyd Sumpter
=>"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - in the True North, Strong and FREE!
RGrew176
of those $600.00 toilet seats.
Lloyd Sumpter
>
> In article <39D8D194...@home.com>,
> Lloyd Sumpter <lsum...@home.com> wrote:
> =>this, I used to be on the Strata Council for my owned appt)
> => So no, even though the marina owns the marina, they have no right to board
> =>your boat if they suspect *someone* is dumping their heads in the marina.
>
> I believe I stipulated that boarding boats is in the contract. I'm
> pretty sure it is in mine. The actual point in the contract is
> probably something related to safety or good of the marina.
> Certainly if I chafe through a line, the marina can board my boat
> to fix the line (and charge me for doing so). If my slip
> neighbor's alarm starts going off at 12:00 midnight, I'd want
> someone to board the boat and turn it off.
>
rights of each, and supercede and contract made between the parties.