The Continuing Saga of Repairing Cruis'n Rulz!
JR North
new starter in my Merc. 5.0. I did a compression test with the old
starter in place, 150 all around. After sitting 2 weeks, the new starter
is in; I cranked it with the plugs out (no manifolds installed yet) And
it spun 3 revolutions with a *Clack* every 360°. I thought in this brief
time that possibly a tooth was sheared on the flywheel ring, but after 3
revolutions the engine locked and would not turn. SHIT. I was thinking
maybe a socket I had holding the Qjet choke open had somehow fallen into
the intake manifold and wedged an intake valve open. Ok. I put a chain
wrench on the balancer and found I could rotate the engine backwards,
but would lock at the same point forwards. I pulled the valve covers,
expecting to find an offending intake valve hung open, with slop in the
rocker arm as a result. Found it, alright, but an exhaust valve, not
intake. Feeling up the #4 exhaust port with my finger, I can feel the
broken end of the exhaust valve stem. The valve head is loose in the
combustion chamber, preventing the piston from reaching TDC. DOUBLE
SHIT. In the 2 weeks since the compression test, the #4 exhaust valve
seized in the guide, and on cranking, because the valve is at an angle
with the piston, was broken off. Now I get to pull the heads......
Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
JR
JR Said:
>So, after I got home from July 4th cruising, I flushed the engine on
the muffs. Shut it off and went to restart about 30 min later.
Hydrolock. Pulled the plugs, and sure enough-clear water out of several
cyls. The starter sounds like a garbage truck now also. Shit.
I should consider myself lucky-this is only the second set of manifolds
in 18 years, 95% salt water, due to careful and thorough flushing.
I found the best deal on manifold/riser kit here: (free shipping)
http://stores.ebay.com/Doug-Russell-Marine
and cheap price on NEW Marine starter for Mercruiser 5.0 here:
http://stores.ebay.com/Rareelectrical
and, lowest cost on exhaust boots (I'm doing the whole thing here...)
No affiliations...
I pulled the manifolds last night, and squirted about 30cc ATF into the
cylinders and cranked it through. Because I applied anti-seize compound
to the manifold and riser bolts on the last job (1996) all the bolts
came right out. In fact, after loosening, they could be screwed out by
fingers. I don't have any such hope for the starter bolts-they're
original and I'm dreading pulling the starter tonight.
JR
JR Said:
What a BITCH. I had to custom make a special tool to get the starter
bolts loose-will post pics soon so youse manly guys that get your
hands dirty can benifit from it. Absolutely no way I could get them to
budge with just a wrench. I'm really amazed they came out at all.
Prolly a good thing I'm doing it now; Cruis;n Rulz! is 18 years old
and unlikely I could get the starter out down the road at all. It
would really suck to have to pull the motor to replace a starter...
Anyway, waiting for all my good deals to arrive, and to get back on
the water.
JR
HOME PAGE:
http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
Loogy...@gmail.com
> As you will recall, In our last episode, I was preparing to install the
> new starter in my Merc. 5.0. I did a compression test with the old
> starter in place, 150 all around. After sitting 2 weeks, the new starter
> is in; I cranked it with the plugs out (no manifolds installed yet) And
> it spun 3 revolutions with a *Clack* every 360°. I thought in this brief
> time that possibly a tooth was sheared on the flywheel ring, but after 3
> revolutions the engine locked and would not turn. SHIT. I was thinking
> maybe a socket I had holding the Qjet choke open had somehow fallen into
> the intake manifold and wedged an intake valve open. Ok. I put a chain
> wrench on the balancer and found I could rotate the engine backwards,
> but would lock at the same point forwards. I pulled the valve covers,
> expecting to find an offending intake valve hung open, with slop in the
> rocker arm as a result. Found it, alright, but an exhaust valve, not
> intake. Feeling up the #4 exhaust port with my finger, I can feel the
> broken end of the exhaust valve stem. The valve head is loose in the
> combustion chamber, preventing the piston from reaching TDC. DOUBLE
> SHIT. In the 2 weeks since the compression test, the #4 exhaust valve
> seized in the guide, and on cranking, because the valve is at an angle
> with the piston, was broken off. Now I get to pull the heads......
> Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
> that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
> JR
Man, that's quite the saga, but that's the way it goes sometimes.
Tim
>
> and cheap price on NEW Marine starter for Mercruiser 5.0 here:
>
> http://stores.ebay.com/Rareelectrical
$89.00 PLUS shipping..
And that's a "cheap" price on a new starter?
I could have gotten you exactly the same thing at my cost of $56.11
and about $12.00 freight.
Ebay stores, you gotta love 'em.
Tim
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey loog-meister, I know you don't need one, but just for the fun of
it I called about the price of a brand new starter for your v-4
(85-115 hp.) Evinrude and it costs me $51.00 + shipping not bad, eh?
James...@gmail.com
That's disappointing. You put some oil in it when you took the
manifolds off so I'd have hoped for better. Next question is what did
that piece of valve do to the cylinder and piston top. Going to pull
both heads or just the problem one? Your compression sounds good.
I'd be tempted to just replace the valve and go but 500 hours is a bit
of time....... Makes me glad I boat on a lake, no salt water.
Short Wave Sportfishing
<junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>. Now I get to pull the heads......
>Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
>that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
Triple shit.
Oh - whoops. :>)
Well, hey, look at it this way - as long as you have the heads off,
look around for cylinder scoring, slop, etc.
Hell, might be time for a new engine. :>)
(At least that's what I'd be telling SWMBO) :>)
Loogy...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not bad at all, and I'll darned sure remember you when the time
comes!!!!
justwaitaf...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have a 1988 evinrude 25 hp that needs a starter. .what kind of price
can you get on one of those?
Vic Smith
<junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>As you will recall, In our last episode, I was preparing to install the
>new starter in my Merc. 5.0. I did a compression test with the old
>starter in place, 150 all around. After sitting 2 weeks, the new starter
>is in; I cranked it with the plugs out (no manifolds installed yet) And
>it spun 3 revolutions with a *Clack* every 360?. I thought in this brief
>time that possibly a tooth was sheared on the flywheel ring, but after 3
>revolutions the engine locked and would not turn. SHIT. I was thinking
>maybe a socket I had holding the Qjet choke open had somehow fallen into
>the intake manifold and wedged an intake valve open. Ok. I put a chain
>wrench on the balancer and found I could rotate the engine backwards,
>but would lock at the same point forwards. I pulled the valve covers,
>expecting to find an offending intake valve hung open, with slop in the
>rocker arm as a result. Found it, alright, but an exhaust valve, not
>intake. Feeling up the #4 exhaust port with my finger, I can feel the
>broken end of the exhaust valve stem. The valve head is loose in the
>combustion chamber, preventing the piston from reaching TDC. DOUBLE
>SHIT. In the 2 weeks since the compression test, the #4 exhaust valve
>seized in the guide, and on cranking, because the valve is at an angle
>with the piston, was broken off. Now I get to pull the heads......
>Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
>that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
>JR
That's weird, since you were cranking it 2 weeks ago.
What do you suppose caused it to seize?
I've never heard of that happening on a 305, but you say that's
not unusual.
I'd like to hear the autopsy report after the stem is driven from the
guide.
This boating stuff is starting to scare me.
--Vic
Gene Kearns
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
Goal: Plausible Deniability.......
--
Agent 5.00 Build 1159
Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Vic Smith
Hey, ain't you supposed to be fishing?
--Vic
JR North
there pulling one as two, and wouldn't want a valve to seize in the
other head later(when the engine is running...). I'm just gonna yank 'em
both and go through them.
JR
James...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> That's disappointing. You put some oil in it when you took the
> manifolds off so I'd have hoped for better. Next question is what did
> that piece of valve do to the cylinder and piston top. Going to pull
> both heads or just the problem one? Your compression sounds good.
> I'd be tempted to just replace the valve and go but 500 hours is a bit
> of time....... Makes me glad I boat on a lake, no salt water.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
Tim
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pricing on outboards vary from warehouse to warehouse, and J&N has
them on *special* right now. Regularly my cost is $58.80 but this
month they're on the sales flier for $51.50 plus shipping. You need,
m'man, I'll get it headed your direction. Of course thats only one of
the warehouses I'm tied in with. others may be a tad (pennies) more,
or a tad (pennies) less, but still .....
What gets me is loogy's starter is bigger (not much) but is the same
pricing +/- , I think because the v-4's are more popular....
Jim
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5ase8495us5f559fm...@4ax.com...
Salt water in the valve guides.
Rebuilders won't touch heads from saltwater boats.
jamesgangnc
I've occasionally flat rated the job by loosening the intake bolts on the
other side and taking the problem head off without removing the intake. But
there's the risk of a vacuum leak on the other side. And then you end up
pulling it anyway.
"JR North" <junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1uWdnXlVD6gbFhrV...@seanet.com...
Short Wave Sportfishing
<gene.b...@myworkshop.idleplay.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:44:37 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
>following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
>
>|On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:28:39 -0700, JR North
>|<junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>|
>|>. Now I get to pull the heads......
>|>Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
>|>that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
>|
>|Triple shit.
>|
>|Oh - whoops. :>)
>|
>|Well, hey, look at it this way - as long as you have the heads off,
>|look around for cylinder scoring, slop, etc.
>|
>|Hell, might be time for a new engine. :>)
>|
>|(At least that's what I'd be telling SWMBO) :>)
>
>Goal: Plausible Deniability.......
Damn straight.
That's how I got my ETEC. :>)
A little fudging here, a little truth twisting there - bingo.
New engine. :>)
Short Wave Sportfishing
I was - you wanna make the trip down here and go with? :>)
HK
I thought that eTec was fifth prize in a beauty contest. First prize was
a weekend in Philly.
Vic Smith
<em...@swsports.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:25:11 -0500, Vic Smith
><thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:44:37 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
>><em...@swsports.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:28:39 -0700, JR North
>>><junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>. Now I get to pull the heads......
>>>>Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
>>>>that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
>>>
>>>Triple shit.
>>>
>>>Oh - whoops. :>)
>>>
>>>Well, hey, look at it this way - as long as you have the heads off,
>>>look around for cylinder scoring, slop, etc.
>>>
>>>Hell, might be time for a new engine. :>)
>>>
>>>(At least that's what I'd be telling SWMBO) :>)
>>
>>Hey, ain't you supposed to be fishing?
>
>I was - you wanna make the trip down here and go with? :>)
I'll give you three guesses.
Wait, that's yes/no so you get only two guesses.
I'll make it easier. Yes, and I would if I could.
--Vic
--Vic
Vic Smith
>
>Salt water in the valve guides.
>Rebuilders won't touch heads from saltwater boats.
That sort of cuts down your options, don't it?
But why is that? I can see how the SW cooled heads might have
more of the passages eaten away, but they could grind, revalve,
respring, and reguide with no problem. Just make it clear future
cracks aren't warranteed, same as any head rebuild.
Anyway, I'm only batting .500 with shop work on heads.
I don't know anything about those boat engine manifolds, but I guess
that's how the salt got in the guides.
The other thing that doesn't make sense to me is how the piston hit
the valve, because I thought that engine was non-interference.
Couldn't find that's a fact anywhere though, so maybe I'm missing
something.
Seems like there's big differences between car and boat engines.
Think I'll get an O/B.
--Vic
Short Wave Sportfishing
Geese 'em pete Harry - that was your prize.
Remember? You won the Parker when you placed First in the "I am a
dork and look like one contest. You had to submit an essay on why you
would look like a dork in a Parker with no transom.
The way you told it, you also got second and third which managed to
get you the Yamaha - by default because nobody else wanted it. :>)
JR North
manifold(s) in the exhaust ports. That was why I oiled it when I pulled
the manifolds. Didn't work....
JR
>
>
> Salt water in the valve guides.
> Rebuilders won't touch heads from saltwater boats.
--
DK
Dumbass Don was third prize. Nobody wanted him either.
hk
>
> Remember? You won the Parker when you placed First in the "I am a
> dork and look like one contest. You had to submit an essay on why you
> would look like a dork in a Parker with no transom.
>
Ahh, the transom routine again, considering:
A. The transom on my boat is 25" only where the engine is mounted, and
on either side of the motor cutout, the transom rapidly rises to about a
foot higher, while the transom on your boat is about 25" high across its
entire width.
B. Under certain circumstances, water may come aboard either of our
boats via the stern. In your case, a gallon or two of it will fill that
little motor well first, and then if there is a lot more, it will simply
cascade and flood over your back deck and into the cockpit, where it
will be momentarily trapped under the little scuppers let it out. If
that much water gets into my boat over the transom, it will flush itself
out almost immediately via four substantial scuppers and if necessary
over the bottom of the motor cutout.
C. Since my boat has so much more freeboard than yours in the bow and
from the bow to the stern, your boat is far more likely to take a
greenie over the bow than mine is. Again, though, if both boats took the
same wave over the bow, mine would drain faster because it can directly
reach the scuppers at the stern and the transom cutout if need be, while
in your boat the water would be trapped in your cockpit until the
scuppers could drain it.
D. Because your boat has substantially lower sides than mine, in
breaking seas, your boat is far more likely to take a greenie over the
side than mine is, especially if you find yourself traveling down a wave
trough.
And, as to design, while your boat is certainly more suited for shallow
water operation with its near flat bottom, it is less suitable than mine
to take on head seas without slowing waaaaay down. Both boats are
relatively small and will bounce; yours bounces more.
Now, which boat would I want on a typical bass lake? Yours. Except for
the engine, of course: too much horsepower, ungainly mount (30" lower
unit on a 25" transom that requires a bracket, right?)
I'll be glad to entertain any rebuttal of yours that does not ignore the
laws of physics. The usual idiotic comments from the Seven Dwarfs are
not relevant.
Let's see photos of your boat from the stern and from the cockpit
looking sternward, and with a yardstick up against the hullsides from
the deck and from the deck up against the transom.
Jim
"hk" <payer...@mypacks.net> wrote in message
news:aNSdncYllt0cShrV...@comcast.com...
Harry is not a boat designer but he plays one on Rec.Boats.
I would think that If Tom thought Parker was a worthy boat, he would own a
couple of them. Tom is a boatman and a pretty good fisherman. Harry is a
blow hard. I think that just about covers it.
HK
As I stated, the usual idiotic comments from the Seven Dwarfs (and
Florida Jim is a leading dwarf) are not relevant, expecially from the
dwarfs who apparently do not even own boats. (Florida Jim again).
Don White
"DK" <intrc...@ggggmail.com> wrote in message
news:pdWdnXYsbb7_VRrV...@giganews.com...
You sure do like to sniff this unwanted butt.
Short Wave Sportfishing
>I would think that If Tom thought Parker was a worthy boat
If they changed the color from that monkey vomit beige to white, well
maybe I'd consider one. :>)
It's just fun tweaking Harry about his boat - he gets so defensive
it's amusing.
My boat is what it is - never claimed it to be something different -
it's a great bay boat with decent range and a decent ride in heavier
weather. And it's pretty quick which is also a plus.
The fact that it's unique pleases me. My son mentioned something to
me the other day and he was right - this is the first boat I've ever
owned for longer than five years - I've had it for eight and I'm not
ever going to get rid of it.
Wayne.B
<em...@swsports.org> wrote:
>It's just fun tweaking Harry about his boat - he gets so defensive
>it's amusing.
I had never noticed that.
:-))
Tim
Well, one thing is that engine heads are sort of a soft cast iron and
after years of salt water exposure, the minerals of said water
actually impregnate into the heads and cause the cast iron to break
down. just like an old rusty iron water pipe that's laid bare to the
elements over several years.
So quality machine work is next to impossible
Tim
Not to mention that it's a whole other volume to get into the
electrolysis issue of salt water and engines.....
D.Duck
"Wayne.B" <waynebatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4tqf84h39qe44mnn5...@4ax.com...
He's very offensive, also.
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>Well, one thing is that engine heads are sort of a soft cast iron and
>after years of salt water exposure, the minerals of said water
>actually impregnate into the heads and cause the cast iron to break
>down. just like an old rusty iron water pipe that's laid bare to the
>elements over several years.
>
>So quality machine work is next to impossible
Never thought of that. Thanks, Tim.
--Vic
Jim
"Short Wave Sportfishing" <em...@swsports.org> wrote in message
news:gkpf845mt191jls83...@4ax.com...
settle for a "monkey puke" Parker. I wish you many more happy moons with
your boat.
HK
Speaking of monkey puke, do you keep track of that old wellcraft you no
longer own, or did it disappear finally at the landfill?
What's your current boat? Oh...that's right...you don't have one. Right?
Loogy...@gmail.com
wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:25:57 -0400, HK <payer33...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> >Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:10:12 -0400, Gene Kearns
> >> <gene.boat...@myworkshop.idleplay.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:44:37 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
> >>> following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
>
> >>> |On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:28:39 -0700, JR North
> >>> |
> >>> |>. Now I get to pull the heads......
> >>> |>Oh well, the engine is 18 years old, has 495 Hrs on it, and with all
> >>> |>that down time, a seized valve is not unusual.
> >>> |
> >>> |Triple shit.
> >>> |
> >>> |Oh - whoops. :>)
> >>> |
> >>> |Well, hey, look at it this way - as long as you have the heads off,
> >>> |look around for cylinder scoring, slop, etc.
> >>> |
> >>> |Hell, might be time for a new engine. :>)
> >>> |
> >>> |(At least that's what I'd be telling SWMBO) :>)
>
> >>> Goal: Plausible Deniability.......
>
> >> Damn straight.
>
> >> That's how I got my ETEC. :>)
>
> >> A little fudging here, a little truth twisting there - bingo.
>
> >> New engine. :>)
>
> >I thought that eTec was fifth prize in a beauty contest. First prize was
> >a weekend in Philly.
>
> Geese 'em pete Harry - that was your prize.
>
> Remember? You won the Parker when you placed First in the "I am a
> dork and look like one contest. You had to submit an essay on why you
> would look like a dork in a Parker with no transom.
>
> The way you told it, you also got second and third which managed to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Quit knocking Harry's Parker, it's going to me mine soon! Didn't you
see his wager to me?
RPS
I actually think Harry's Parker is a great bay boat when the water is
calm. The only recommendation I would have for Harry is to get rid of
that ugly bimini. you normally see those on runabouts, not a proper
fishing boat. Besides looking tacky, the tie downs for the bimini
totally eliminates the advantage of a CC. You have to decide if you
want to fish in the bow or the stern of the boat, and hope the fish
doesn't want to move around as you reel him in. I would guess most
people want to fish from the bow, your docksiders stay drier that way.
Even with the bimini, if I was Harry, I would spend substantially less
time talking about fishing and more time actually fishing or using his
boat. Sure it might be warm on some days and it is common to have
afternoon showers during the spring and summer,if you only go out on a
"perfect day", you will very rarely go boating.
HK
>
>
> I actually think...
>>snerk<<
Jim
"RPS" <R...@here.com> wrote in message
news:ReOdne9gbJmhAxXV...@comcast.com...
Don't you think his surrey top would look cute with a string of pink pom
poms around the perimeter?
James...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds a bit like an urban legend. Guides are either knurled or bored
and inserts added. Knurled is quick and easy but won't last as long.
The salt water is not really going to affect either option. The seats
are hardened. Have been ever since they went to unleaded gas.
Besides, how does the machine shop know where the head has been
anyway?
As someone else mentioned, I too thought this engine was supposed to
be non-interfering. The other 305s I've seen from the boating world
have had seriously dished pistons, no way a valve would hit them. We
need more facts from the autopsy after the head is removed :-) I'd
also suggest removing a few other springs and checking those valves
for wobble.
RPS
Only during the Christmas Parade in Baltimore Harbor, but then again you
could do the same thing if you had a first class T-Top.
Don White
"Jim" <j...@boatnet.net> wrote in message
news:g6a84o$4e5$2...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> Don't you think his surrey top would look cute with a string of pink pom
> poms around the perimeter?
Please keep your fantasies and perversions to yourself. You'll embarrass the
other Dwarfs.
HK
Florida Jim wears pink at his job as the greeter at walmart.
Loogy...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Interference vs. non interference only applies to out of time. etc.
Like if the timing chain breaks, timing belt or chain slips, etc. If a
valve breaks and sits on the piston it'll punch holes in the piston,
or lock up even on a non-interference engine.
James...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, but typically valve heads break off in the first place because
the piston hits them. In a non-interference engine that's not
possible. And while valve heads do break off for other reasons, it's
not usually while cranking. Some missing pieces in this story yet to
be filled in I think.
Tim
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not necessarily "urban legend", though. Around here we don't run
boats in salt water, but there are salt water pumps that have been run
in the "oil patch" for years. and find out that "mineral saturation"
can and does take a toll on various cast iron components, to the point
that the integrity of the metal is compromised, and machining (boring,
honing, resurfacing) is , or to the least, can be rather limited. I
agree with what you're saying about guides being preswsed and/or
knurled, but they still are fit and pressed into the cast iron core
of the head. So......
DK
Nice one-liner! Dumb as hell but a nice try, WAFM.
DK
That was dumb at any level.