Fuel/Oil ratio for old Sea King?

[HatleyT]

Just purchased 11'6" 'glass boat with a 5hp Sea King...hoping someone
could tell me what the proper mixture ratio is...ran it this weekend at
40:1, seemed fine. Just want to ensure many enjoyable fishing trips w/my
sons...

Thanks in advance!

Hat...@AOL.com

[Marcus G Bell]

HatleyT (hat...@aol.com) wrote:
: Just purchased 11'6" 'glass boat with a 5hp Sea King...hoping someone

: Thanks in advance!

: Hat...@AOL.com

We need a model number to figure out exactly which Sea King you have.
You said "old", but we have no idea how old.

If it's one of the old Gale-built Sea Kings, 40:1 will cook your rod
bearings.

--
--
Marcus. ( be...@mail.med.upenn.edu )

[Randall]

Marcus,

Jeez!!!!!! 40:1???? Mine had a mix ratio of 16:1! Sounds like a fry
daddy in the making...

--
G'day!

Randall G. Prince

Ashley Weather & Associates
14 Watermill Road
Flintville, Tennessee - 37335
615.937.6774

http://www.awamall.com/outdoors

"Shut up and look out the window!"

[Marcus G Bell]

Randall (christi...@vallnet.com) wrote:

: Jeez!!!!!! 40:1???? Mine had a mix ratio of 16:1! Sounds like a fry
: daddy in the making...

That's right. 16:1 was the original spec for most of the 5 HP Sea
Kings. The Gale-built motor had certain things in common with the
Johnson/Evinrude 5.5 and 6 HP motors upon which it was based. Even
though the bearings in the 5.5 powerhead were upgraded from bushings
to rollers prior to the 5.5 to 6 transition, the 5 kept the
bushings. From what I'm told, the OMC 7.5 motors with bushings were
never spec'ed for anything but 16:1 even though some of the other
1950s motors were given the OK for 24:1 with the newer better oil. The
earlier 5.5 and the 5 shared the 7.5's need for oil due to
similarities in construction, but the lower HP rating meant less
stress on the bearings, perhaps allowing it to get by on 24:1.

: > HatleyT (hat...@aol.com) wrote:
: > : Just purchased 11'6" 'glass boat with a 5hp Sea King...hoping someone
: > : could tell me what the proper mixture ratio is...ran it this weekend at
: > : 40:1, seemed fine. Just want to ensure many enjoyable fishing trips w/my
: > : sons...

--

[Paul B. Buck]

I sell a synthetic oil you should be able to run @ 100:1.
Or if you prefer to stick with OEM recommendations, I also have a
biodegradable 2 cycle oil so you can have fun and reduce pollution,
too!.
regards,
pb...@bellsouth.net

[Marcus G Bell]

Paul B. Buck (pb...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: I sell a synthetic oil you should be able to run @ 100:1.

I'm not so sure about the 100:1 recommendation. We still don't know
what the exact model of this motor is ("old 5 HP Sea King"), thus it
is most likely premature to recommend anything without the appropriate
caveats. It could very well be a motor that was designed for 16:1
using plain bushings in the powerhead.

People who report "no problems" using the new fancy synthetic oils at
100:1 in old outboards will waver when you ask them for log books
detailing how long the motor has been run, at what RPM, with what
boat, load, prop, water jacket temperature, etc. Ask them for
micrometer dimensions of critical tolerances before and after extended
use of the product, and they can provide none. In short, they have no
real data to back up the claim, only a general feeling that they have
had "no problems" after using the oil "for a while". That may be
putting as little as 2 hours a year on the motor over a few years, not
an exhaustive test by most any measure.

Oil and outboard manufacturers alike almost unanimously state that the
original mixture ratio is to be followed, even when new oils are
used. A noted exception is Amsoil, who recommends "100:1 for 1960 and
newer engines." To me, this is a strange stance, since as far as I
know 1960 is not a magic turning point in the technologies of OMC,
Mercury, West Bend, or McCulloch, the bigger players of that time. Nor
could Amsoil have reasonably tested their dope on all variations of
outboards built since 1960, some of which continued to use bushings
instead of ball or roller anti-friction bearings. 100:1 seems
foolhardy in a bushing motor. Remember, every design is different and
will not all respond alike to a diet lean in lubricant. Thus, I
believe any blanket statement such as "100:1 for 1960 and newer
engines" cannot be prudently applied to any outboard without further
consideration.

It should be possible to stick with the original recommended oil mix
using the better oil available today, including synthetic. It will
burn cleaner with less smoke and less carbon buildup. Spend the extra
pennies to feed your motor a proper diet. That includes 89 octane
unleaded gas, which (depending on brand) has a higher level of
detergents and dispersants, but does not have as much noxious
additives used to bost the octane past the 91 mark.

[Jerry Coulter]

HatleyT wrote:
>
> Just purchased 11'6" 'glass boat with a 5hp Sea King...hoping someone
> could tell me what the proper mixture ratio is...ran it this weekend at
> 40:1, seemed fine. Just want to ensure many enjoyable fishing trips w/my
> sons...
>

> Thanks in advance!
>
> Hat...@AOL.com
Just from memory, early 60's 25 HP Sea King used 24:1.

[SUPRDAVE]

i had a 1939 sea king 5 hp and i used 3/4 pint <!> of 30weight for every
gallon of regular gas.

david.

[Yooper]

Most early '60's outboards used 1qt NON-Detergent 30w auto oil to 6 gal
gas.

[mar...@frontiernet.net]

On 1 Jul 1997 03:43:48 GMT, hat...@aol.com (HatleyT) wrote:

>Just purchased 11'6" 'glass boat with a 5hp Sea King...hoping someone
>could tell me what the proper mixture ratio is...ran it this weekend at
>40:1, seemed fine. Just want to ensure many enjoyable fishing trips w/my
>sons...
>

I owned one of those which was quite old even back in the early 70's,
around 10 or 11 hp. I remember it taking a quart of 30 weight to a
gallon of gas.
MartyM
http://www.frontiernet.net/~martym/suck.html

[jacobwhi...@gmail.com]

I just got a old 5hp sea king and it's not locked up but I have no idea how to start it. Help plz!

[Alex]

jacobwhi...@gmail.com wrote:
> I just got a old 5hp sea king and it's not locked up but I have no idea how to start it. Help plz!

Google is your friend...

https://www.diyforums.net/what-is-the-gas-oil-mix-on-a-5hp-sea-king-montgomery-ward-bo...-595359.html

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Wed, 1 May 2019 15:56:06 -0700 (PDT), jacobwhi...@gmail.com
wrote:

>I just got a old 5hp sea king and it's not locked up but I have no idea how to start it. Help plz!

Depending on how old it is at least 50:1 but some of the older ones
may have been 25:1
First be sure you have a healthy spark. That usually takes 2 people if
you don't have a spark tester. If it is sparking you can try just
filling it up and giving it a yank. If you are not sure you are
getting gas out of the carb, squirt some premix in the throat, open
the throttle all the way and yank it. You will start out too rich but
after a few pulls the mix will be OK enough to pop. If it runs a few
seconds and stops, suspect a carb problem or a fuel delivery problem.

[Its Me]

They need three things to run... fuel, air, and spark. Greg's method will get you started.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:39:31 -0700 (PDT), Its Me <345...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Don't forget compression ;-)

[Its Me]

You actually don't need much of that. I had a friend growing up that had a neighbor with a "collection" of those old single cylinder engines that fired once every 4-6 revolutions. They have almost no compression, and run just fine, sort-of. Similar to this:

<http://prestonservices.co.uk/item/horizontal-single-cylinder-workshop-engine/>

It was pretty cool to go over on a weekend and see him fire one up.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Wed, 1 May 2019 19:24:04 -0700 (PDT), Its Me <345...@gmail.com>

That is pretty much true. If it is enough to push your finger out of
the hole it will at least pop if you get the fuel and air right.
Running these things tend to make them better. The rings will seat
and knock some of the crud off the cylinder walls.
We had an old OMC 20 that was seized up tight, We flooded the
cylinders with WD-40 beat the pistons loose with a dowel and a hammer
through the plug holes while a guy kept a wrench on the flywheel nut.
Once we got it loose we fired it up and putted around the ramp area a
while. 20 minutes later we took it out in the gulf.

... But we are rednecks ;-)

[Its Me]

Rednecks will inherit the world. But wait... you aren't a redneck. You are from up north, and rednecks are only from the south, right? :)

[Bill]

Lots of rednecks even in California. Just not much representation. Heck,
we got rodeo champs here.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Wed, 1 May 2019 19:54:00 -0700 (PDT), Its Me <345...@gmail.com>

There are plenty of rednecks in Southern Md, at least before it got
gentrified..

[gfre...@aol.com]

I am a couple generations away from my cowboys.

[waynebatr...@hotmail.com]

On Wed, 1 May 2019 19:24:04 -0700 (PDT), Its Me <345...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>You actually don't need much of that. I had a friend growing up that had a neighbor with a "collection" of those old single cylinder engines that fired once every 4-6 revolutions. They have almost no compression, and run just fine, sort-of. Similar to this:
>
><http://prestonservices.co.uk/item/horizontal-single-cylinder-workshop-engine/>
>
>It was pretty cool to go over on a weekend and see him fire one up.

===

I think those were engines with "spark interrupter" governors. They
had big fly wheels with a lot of momentum. In order to maintain a
constant speed and prevent over revving, the governor would actually
disable the ignition until the speed came back down. I once saw a big
collection at a county fair in upstate NY, and they were a lot of fun
to watch. Running under load they'd generally fire on every
compression stroke.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Mr. Luddite]

Many engines today used in lawn mowers, some motorcycles and other small
engine applications have automatic compression relief valves that
vents the cylinder compression until the starter (or pull rope) gets
the engine rotation up to a speed that will support starting. Once
started, the compression relief valve automatically closes.

I remember an old gas engine on something that had a manual compression
relief valve. It partially vented (lowering compression) until the
engine fired at which time you closed the relief valve.

[Mr. Luddite]

One of the dangers of diesel engines (although rare) is a "runaway"
condition whereby the governor controlling fuel intake fails and
the engine will increase RPM until something explodes or breaks.
No "ignition" to stop it or limit the engine RPM.

My wife's uncle was a diesel engine instructor in a trade school
and he described a situation when this happened with one of the
diesels used in the school's garage. A student had reassembled
the engine incorrectly, the governor didn't function and they
had a runaway when it was started. Sounds scary but was
remedied by discharging a fire extinguisher into the air
intake, robbing the engine of oxygen.


I had a situation on the Navigator once when I couldn't shut one
of the engines down. It wasn't a "runaway" but when I turned the
key fully left that is supposed to energize a solenoid in the fuel
line, stopping fuel from being supplied, it didn't work. Couldn't
shut the engine down. Finally found a manual lever on the engine
that closed off fuel and stopped the engine. The problem with the
key/solenoid turned out to be a re-settable fuse in the electrical
supply to the solenoid.

[John H.]

Some of the old Moto Guzzis had compression relief valves.

[Mr. Luddite]

I think I remember having one on a motorcycle I had once also.
Can't remember which one it was.

[John H.]

Probably one of your Harleys. Amazon sells them. Here's a listing of what models it fits:

S&S Electric Compression Release for Harley DavidsonBike Fitments1999-2012 Harley Davidson FLHR Road
King1999-2012 Harley Davidson FLHRCI Road King Classic2000-2006 Harley Davidson FLHRI Road
King2004-2007 Harley Davidson FLHRSI Road King Custom1999-2009 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide
Standard1999-2012 Harley Davidson FLHTC Electra Glide Classic1999-2006 Harley Davidson FLHTCI
Electra Glide Classic2007-2012 Harley Davidson FLHTCU Electra Glide Ultra Classic1999-2006 Harley
Davidson FLHTCUI Electra Glide Ultra Classic2009-2012 Harley Davidson FLHTCUTG Tri Glide Ultra
Classic2003-2006 Harley Davidson FLHTI Electra Glide Standard2010-2012 Harley Davidson FLHTK Electra
Glide Ultra Limited2006-2012 Harley Davidson FLHX Street Glide2006 Harley Davidson FLHXI Street
Glide2012 Harley Davidson FLHXXX Street Glide Trike2010 Harley Davidson FLHXXX Street Glide
Trike2006 Harley Davidson FLST Heritage Softail2000-2012 Harley Davidson FLSTC Heritage Softail
Classic2001-2006 Harley Davidson FLSTCI Heritage Softail Classic2000-2012 Harley Davidson FLSTF Fat
Boy2010-2012 Harley Davidson FLSTFB Fat Boy Lo2001-2006 Harley Davidson FLSTFI Fat Boy2006 Harley
Davidson FLSTI Heritage Softail2005-2012 Harley Davidson FLSTN Softail Deluxe2005-2006 Harley
Davidson FLSTNI Softail Deluxe2000-2003 Harley Davidson FLSTS Heritage Springer2008-2012 Harley
Davidson FLSTSB Cross Bones2005-2007 Harley Davidson FLSTSC Softail Springer Classic2005-2006 Harley
Davidson FLSTSCI Softail Springer Classic2001-2003 Harley Davidson FLSTSI Heritage Springer1999-2009
Harley Davidson FLTR Road Glide1999-2006 Harley Davidson FLTRI Road Glide2012 Harley Davidson FLTRU
Road Glide Ultra2010-2012 Harley Davidson FLTRX Road Glide Custom2008-2009 Harley Davidson FXCW
Rocker2008-2012 Harley Davidson FXCWC Rocker C1999-2010 Harley Davidson FXD Dyna

[Mr. Luddite]

My "rememberer" is slowly warming up. I think I was wrong ... it wasn't
on a motorcycle. I have a hazy memory it was on an old outboard engine
on a boat when I was a kid. Can't be sure. Some of the files in my
brain are slowly becoming corrupted. :-)

[John H.]

You surely owned one of the Harleys in that list!

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Thu, 02 May 2019 07:47:38 -0400, John H. <salmo...@gmail.com>

Blasphemy.
Compression release on a Harley.
You are supposed to limp like everyone else who owned an 69 XLCH.

[Mr. Luddite]

I did but if it had a compression relief valve it was of the automatic
type, not manual.

The one I remember was a little knob on the side of an outboard engine
that you pulled out when first pulling the manual cord start. Once it
fired up you pushed the knob back in. If you left it out the engine
would run but wouldn't rev up or develop any power.

[John H.]

The old Moto Guzzi had a manual valve also, with a cable attached up by the handlebar somewhere.

[waynebatr...@hotmail.com]

===

The "runaway" diesel syndrome that I'm familiar with is peculiar to
2-stroke models, mostly Detroits. On older engines when the piston
rings start to wear, the engine can actually start to run on its own
crankcase oil, so the throttle and governor are totally out of the
loop. Since this condition will eventually result in total
destruction of the engine, a lot of boats with Detroit Diesels have
emergency engine shutdown controls for just that contingency. When
you pull the knob it releases a spring loaded plate that closes off
the air intake to the engine. The only way to restart is to manually
reset the plate in the engine room and re-engage the latch.

[Bill]

They were make-break ignition engines. And I think the intake valve was
kept open to prevent overspeed. They also disconnected the battery, so no
spark at same time. Was to save battery juice. The battery disconnect was
not on all engines. Make break had the points inside the combustion
chamber and no condenser to suppress the spark.

[Tim]

Bill

......


What got me was a lot of the old ww1 biplane radials were setthrottle (wide open) when the guy hit the prop you were gone! Anyhow, to control the engine you actually killed the Magnito and let off if it. Making the engine cut out then refire. Then Tom Seleck is in the dog fight in High Road To China, there’s a good demonstration of the cut-out technique.

Bye, Bill, yes there’s a local guy that has a “hit n miss” engine with the point breaker built in the head.

[Tim]

Yooper
- show quoted text -
Most early '60's outboards used 1qt NON-Detergent 30w auto oil to 6 gal
gas.
......


I thought it was a qt to every 5 gal. But I’ll take your word for it...

[Tim]

gfre...@aol.com

.....


I plan on running my 115 2-smoker mercury on 40:1

[waynebatr...@hotmail.com]

On Thu, 2 May 2019 19:08:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim <tsch...@gmail.com>
wrote:

===

One quart per 6 gallon tank is my recollection also. 35 horse
Evinrudes were very popular when I was a kid and that's what they
used.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Fri, 03 May 2019 00:14:22 -0400, waynebatr...@hotmail.com
wrote:

>On Thu, 2 May 2019 19:08:05 -0700 (PDT), Tim <tsch...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Yooper
>>- show quoted text -
>>Most early '60's outboards used 1qt NON-Detergent 30w auto oil to 6 gal
>>gas.
>>......
>>
>>
>>I thought it was a qt to every 5 gal. But I’ll take your word for it...
>>
>
>===
>
>One quart per 6 gallon tank is my recollection also. 35 horse
>Evinrudes were very popular when I was a kid and that's what they
>used.
>

That was the 25:1 I was talking about.

[Bill]

We had a large collection at the county fair grounds. All donated. New
manager auctioned them off. I think he gets a percentage of profits.