Marine engine vs. Auto engine, differences?
WVRadioman
differences besides the electrical system and crankshaft in a
marine(specifically 230 Mercruiser 5.0L). I am aware that this is a 305 Chevy
motor but am told that a marine block contains more nickel content than a
automotive block. But I have also been told that GM produces only one block,
not seperate for marine and auto. An experienced welder I had asked about
welding my cracked block also told me that all blocks contain nickel and that
it is the same regardless of marine or auto. What it comes down to, If I could
take the crank, cam, pistons, electrical system, or whatever from my good
running motor into a auto 305 block, will it last more than a couple years? I
would rather only pull the motor one time as opposed to many so I would like to
make a good decision the first time. I found a used 230 Mercruiser for $1000
but do not think that plus my good running core is a very good deal. Any input
would be greatly appreciated!
Dave
Karl Denninger
WVRadioman <wvrad...@aol.com> wrote:
>I have had quite a bit of input about this and would like to know any
>differences besides the electrical system and crankshaft in a
>marine(specifically 230 Mercruiser 5.0L). I am aware that this is a 305 Chevy
>motor but am told that a marine block contains more nickel content than a
>automotive block.
That's bullshit being fed to you by someone who is trying to rip you off
for a paint job (which is all they do to the blocks to call them "marine").
> But I have also been told that GM produces only one block,
>not seperate for marine and auto. An experienced welder I had asked about
>welding my cracked block also told me that all blocks contain nickel and that
>it is the same regardless of marine or auto.
That is correct.
> What it comes down to, If I could
>take the crank, cam, pistons, electrical system, or whatever from my good
>running motor into a auto 305 block, will it last more than a couple years?
Yes.
> I
>would rather only pull the motor one time as opposed to many so I would like to
>make a good decision the first time. I found a used 230 Mercruiser for $1000
>but do not think that plus my good running core is a very good deal. Any input
>would be greatly appreciated!
>
>Dave
There is no difference in the block WHATSOEVER. None.
The cam is usually different. So is the exhaust manifold (obviously).
VERY FEW marine engines use different cranks, pistons or rods from their
automotive applications. The primary differences are in the electrical
(starter, alternator, ignition), fuel (a marine carb is different than an
automotive one), and cam areas (better breathing due to less emphasis on
restricting emissions)
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet
http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children's rights
WhiteWolf
"WVRadioman" <wvrad...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000609124138...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> I have had quite a bit of input about this and would like to know any
> differences besides the electrical system and crankshaft in a
> marine(specifically 230 Mercruiser 5.0L). I am aware that this is a 305
Chevy
> motor but am told that a marine block contains more nickel content than a
> automotive block. But I have also been told that GM produces only one
block,
> not seperate for marine and auto. An experienced welder I had asked about
> welding my cracked block also told me that all blocks contain nickel and
that
> it is the same regardless of marine or auto. What it comes down to, If I
could
> take the crank, cam, pistons, electrical system, or whatever from my good
> running motor into a auto 305 block, will it last more than a couple
years? I
George Jefferson
:but do not think that plus my good running core is a very good deal. Any input
:would be greatly appreciated!
check the price of a reman long block with a warranty before making
that decision.
--
george jefferson : geo...@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
to reply simply press "r"
-- I hate editing addresses more than I hate the spam!
H82LUZ1
>The only difference is the Cam and the freeze Plugs.
>
Close. The blocks are the same. The rotating assembly (lower end) are the
same. The heads are the same.
The differences are; the cam has a much different profile (torque
range), due to load requirements and rpm range.
The head gaskets are different for marine engines with fresh water cooling.
The freeze plugs are brass on the marine engine.
The intake manifolds have an insert where the thermostat fits, but you can get
away with (many do), an automotive intake.
Of course, the exhaust are different.
On many marine engines, the oil pan has a larger capacity sump due to the
increased chance of oil sloshing around when a boat is in rough water.
Marine carbs have a J tube in case a float sticks. this will put the excess
fuel back into the engine.
As you can see, most parts will readily swap from the old motor to the new
one. Change the freeze plugs, swap the oil pan AND sump, use marine head
gaskets, and spend the money on a new cam, (the 305 motors had some high mile
cams go flat).
You're back on the water.
Mike G.
SoccerChSC
scroll down to find your motor on this link>
http://216.37.204.3/mercruiser/merc.asp?io_list
fix
h82...@aol.com says...
doo doo if you do.
They won;t take the salt water.
H82LUZ1
>doo doo if you do.
>They won;t take the salt water.
>
I know there is a difference between auto and marine head gaskets. Didn't know
there was any dif. in the others. (well, maybe the intake set...)
Mike G.
bmc...@ti.com
exchanger and antifreeze, so could use either of the gaskets, marine or
automotive. Fact is I have the automotive on one head now. Had to pull a
head because of a rusted sparkplug.
Bill
H82LUZ1 <h82...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000609182602...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
Steve Daniels
ka...@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) to say:
>The only place I'd expect you to run into this would be in some twin
>installations; I can't imagine why a builder would use a non-standard
>rotational engine other than as a twin.
I thought the transmissions took care of reversing one side.
They actually spin one of the motors a different direction?
--
Love me . . .
love my dog.
hitman
had a Graymarine (327 Rambler block belive it or not) and replaced the
starter with one from a car. Didn't know why it coughed and sputtered
until I realized that the rotor in the starter had a different twist.
Never had to check the cam but it had to be different, or at least put
in reversed (if possible) and the firing order changed.
On 9 Jun 2000 17:35:35 GMT, ka...@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger)
wrote:
>In article <20000609124138...@ng-fm1.aol.com>,
>WVRadioman <wvrad...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I have had quite a bit of input about this and would like to know any
>>differences besides the electrical system and crankshaft in a
>>marine(specifically 230 Mercruiser 5.0L). I am aware that this is a 305 Chevy
>>motor but am told that a marine block contains more nickel content than a
>>automotive block.
>
>That's bullshit being fed to you by someone who is trying to rip you off
>for a paint job (which is all they do to the blocks to call them "marine").
>
>> But I have also been told that GM produces only one block,
>>not seperate for marine and auto. An experienced welder I had asked about
>>welding my cracked block also told me that all blocks contain nickel and that
>>it is the same regardless of marine or auto.
>
>That is correct.
>
>> What it comes down to, If I could
>>take the crank, cam, pistons, electrical system, or whatever from my good
>>running motor into a auto 305 block, will it last more than a couple years?
>
>Yes.
>
>> I
>>would rather only pull the motor one time as opposed to many so I would like to
>>make a good decision the first time. I found a used 230 Mercruiser for $1000
>>but do not think that plus my good running core is a very good deal. Any input
>>would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>>Dave
>
>There is no difference in the block WHATSOEVER. None.
>
>The cam is usually different. So is the exhaust manifold (obviously).
>
>VERY FEW marine engines use different cranks, pistons or rods from their
>automotive applications. The primary differences are in the electrical
>(starter, alternator, ignition), fuel (a marine carb is different than an
>automotive one), and cam areas (better breathing due to less emphasis on
>restricting emissions)
>
>--
>--
>Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
>http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet
>http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children's rights
__________________________________________
The more you own the more you have to fix!
Lin and Ron
Sebastian Fl, formerly NJ
(Maplewood, Neptune, Bricktown[Laurelton], Toms River)
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Karl Denninger
can't put a cam in "backwards"; they only fit in the block one way. :-)
It makes sense that one could change only the cam for counter-rotational
engines and leave the crank alone, although doing this would produce an
odd firing order.
The only place I'd expect you to run into this would be in some twin
installations; I can't imagine why a builder would use a non-standard
rotational engine other than as a twin.
Marine cams are different anyway; the profile you want in a marine
application is completely different from an automotive one. Automotive
engines loaf around at highway speed, and a non-"lopey" idle is a big
deal. Marine engines, on the other hand, typically run in the power
band a good part of their life, some lope in the idle is acceptable
(even in "un-rodded" engines) and their breathing requirements for
good performance are entirely different. In general a marine cam
is more "aggressive" than an automotive one; you'll lose quite a
bit of performance using a stock automotive cam in a marine motor.
The other posters that noted a difference in head and manifold gasket
material are also correct; that is particularly important to observe
with seawater cooled engines. For FWC engines its not an issue; the
exhaust mainfolds and risers, of course, will still be marine-specific.
One other thing specific to your posting.
DO NOT use automotive electrical parts such as (specifically) starters
and alternators. They are NOT ignition protected and besides not meeting
UL/Marine & NMMA certification requirements (which voids your insurance)
WILL blow you to pieces if there is gas vapor in the bilge when you hit
the switch.
Starters in particular are dangerous (moreso than alternators) due to the
fact that they are used (obviously) when the engine is at rest (no airflow
other than the blower one hopes you turned on!) and are usually mounted
very low on the engine (and gas vapor is heavier than air!) They
also produce lots of sparking (read: source of ignition) on their
commutators due to the high current flow required to turn them.
This combination makes for an excellent way to launch yourself to Mars.
Don't do it; marine-rated starters and alternators (not to mention
distributors, etc) are expensive, but electrical parts on a marine
engine should NEVER be substituted from automotive-application
components.
You are literally risking your life by doing so.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective solutions on the Internet
http://childrens-justice.org Working to protect children's rights
In article <3941b4ec...@news.spacey.net>,
Gould 0738
> On many marine engines, the oil pan has a larger capacity sump due to the
>increased chance of oil sloshing around when a boat is in rough water.
A local wrench once told me that another important reason for the larger oil
sump is to help the engine cool properly.
Automobile engines rely on a good blast of air pouring through the grill and
welling up from beneath the splash shield as the Buick goes down the
interstate. No such phenom exists in the engine room of a boat. A larger oil
reservoir allows more heat to be radiated away by the pan, and reduces the
number of times per hour that the same oil molecules are used to reduce
friction (aned thereby absorb heat).
________
Chuck Gould
Float and let float.
Karl Denninger
Steve Daniels <dan...@mind.net> wrote:
>On 10 Jun 2000 04:09:34 GMT, crack smoking weasels forced
>ka...@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) to say:
>
>>installations; I can't imagine why a builder would use a non-standard
>>rotational engine other than as a twin.
>
>They actually spin one of the motors a different direction?
That depends on who built it.
Some outdrives (Volvo in particular) can be "reversed" by changing where
the shift cable attaches (!). That makes twin setups rather easy. It also
makes for quite the embarassment if you're not careful when reassembling
things :-)
Karl Denninger
That is true.
The more oil volume, the cooler the engine runs and the longer the oil
lasts.
Oil does more than just lubricate; it also is a source of conductive
cooling (from the block and to the pan, which then radiates it)
Bolt-on high-capacity pans are readily available though, and aren't very
expensive.