Starter turns engine wrong direction
Gary Harper
boat/engine so I don't know the history of it. I started it up today and I
noticed that when cranking, the starter turns the engine the opposite
direction of the way it runs. It does eventually start, but when it starts,
it turns the opposite way in which it was cranking. I don't know if this is
normal or not but makes no sense to me. Does anyone know if:
1. it is normal
2. if not normal, how did a started that fits perfectly but runs in the
wrong direction get on my boat motor?
I am positive that the motor is not hooked up backwards because the gear
starter gear will only engage if it rotates in the way that it does.
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks,
Gary
Steve
motor eventually starts but in the opposite direction from what it is
cranked..
I don't know too much about outboards but I know they make righthand and
lefthand rotating starter for counter rotating inboard engines. Automotive
type engine starts are NOT reverseable, even if you switch the pollarity, so
you can exclude that as a possible cause.. And you have already noted that
the starter wouldn't engage if it rotated in the other direction..
If your engine is equipt with a starter that is rotating in the wrong
direction then the fact that it starts could be attributed to a "compression
bounce back" start. Not common but has happened on small engines when the
manual starting rope is wound the wrong way..
I suggest that you contact a parts dealer for your make/model engine with
the starter ID and see if you have the wrong starter.
Or, is it possible that someone has the timing so far off that the engine is
cranked in the correct direction and it is starting in the wrong direction
due to 'Compression Bounce Back"/ miss firing. Of course this would mean you
have the wrong prop or your running in reverse after the engine starts.
What a strange puzzle you have.. I will be curiously awaiting more details
and this is sorted out.
--
My opinion and experience. FWIW
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Trainfan1
That 85 should be turning clockwise while running, looking down at the
flywheel. The starter shaft and Bendix should be turning counter-clockwise
while cranking, to kick the Bendix up. The only way it could turn clockwise
was if the field from a gear-reduction starter was subbed in, but then the
Bendix would stay down on the shaft, the flywheel would not be engaged.
This is slightly possible with Prestolite starters on OMC applications,
because the early V-4s used the same Prestolite field(part number off by
one), wound for cw spinning armatures and gear reduction drives, as the old
30-35-40-28-33 hp twins with ccw armatures and direct drive Bendix gears. I
do not believe this could be the case, as in addition, that series of
starters did not make it to direct-drive V-4 applications.
In 1972, you could have a Prestolite or Bosch Starter. Which do you have,
and which way does the starter turn, and which way does the engine turn
while running?
Rob
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"Gary Harper" <noharp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mnBva.3367$Bf1.157...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Trainfan1
cross-charge V-6?
Rob
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"Trainfan1" <LMSE...@usadatanet.net> wrote in message
news:3ebef...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
Trainfan1
It seems to be the right one!
The polarity does not matter... which way it is connected to the battery, as
it is a series-wound motor, but it must be - to the case, + to the terminal
to protect the engine.
Rob
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Harper" <har...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Trainfan1" <LMSE...@usadatanet.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Starter turns engine wrong direction
> The engine turns clockwise when running. The engine turns
counter-clockwise
> when the starter turns it. The starter is a Prestolite MGL-4108 12V R5.
> Do you know which motor that starter actually belongs to?
>
> I didn't pay attention to which way the starter rotates but, logically, it
> would be rotating clockwise since the engine turns counterclockwise when
> starting. I do know that the starter is wired correctly because the gear
> pops up when it starts. If it rotated the other way, the gear would stay
> down.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
"Gary Harper" <noharp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mnBva.3367$Bf1.157...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Gary Harper
Could it be that the 4108 spins one way and the 4008 spins the other?
"Trainfan1" <LMSE...@usadatanet.net> wrote in message
news:3ebf7...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
Ken
amplifier style ignition system, an electronic box on the exhaust plate
(between the heads) and a distributor under the flywheel. If this is the
case then that engine can run backwards - they did so regularly. To stop the
problem they have an anti-reverse clip under the distributor cap. It is a
spring-like item that clips onto the crankshaft and grounds out the ignition
when it runs backwards. The clips do wear out. If the engine is actually
running backwards (counter-clockwise) then that is the place to look.
Reply to group. E-mail address not correct.
Gary Harper <noharp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mnBva.3367$Bf1.157...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Trainfan1
> Thanks. I clicked and it shows and MGL-4108 and and MGL-4008 for my
motor.
> Could it be that the 4108 spins one way and the 4008 spins the other?
No, they both use the same API SD34 starter drive. There was not a
counter-rotating option on the 69-72 GEN 2 V-4s(Hydro-Electric Drive), and
73 & up models use a different flywheel, and tooth-count starter drive. Do
you have some macro photos of the starter, Bendix, and armature above the
motor housing(Bendix removed) that you could post to Geocities or elsewhere?
This would solve the puzzle for a lot of us...
Rob
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Trainfan1
starter for your app.:
http://www.arcomarine.com/Not%20in%20Catalog.pdf
I will check my Morgan and Sierra catalogs, too, to see if they shed any
light on this. You're sure about the direction of spin on both starter and
flywheel?
Rob
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"Gary Harper" <noharp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mnBva.3367$Bf1.157...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Steve Barker
starts spinning the other direction. Did EVERYONE miss this key alleged
symptom? I think the important thing is that the engine starts. Unless it
goes backwards when you push the lever forward, there's NO PROBLEM.
--
Steve (here to have fun) Barker
Stilwell, Kansas
UP (MoPac) Coffeyville Sub MP 308
Coolpix 995 / PSP 7.04
=======================
Remove the not dot from my address to abuse my email box
"Gary Harper" <noharp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mnBva.3367$Bf1.157...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Garland Gray II
the same doubt. For this to happen, the flywheel would be spinning one way,
then come to a complete stop, and then end up running in the opposite
direction. Flywheels don't like to do this.
I'd have to see it to believe it.
"Steve Barker" <railph...@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AfUva.38292$dl6.2...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Clams Canino
Only a lucky backfire could cause this. And in that case the starter bendex
would HAVE to stay engaged in the flywheel because it would be turning the
"wrong way" for the backwards starter.
-W
"Garland Gray II" <g.g...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:n9Vva.89831$3h5.4...@news2.east.cox.net...
Clams Canino
Only a lucky backfire could cause this. And in that case the starter bendex
would HAVE to stay engaged in the flywheel because it would be turning the
"wrong way" for the backwards starter.
-W
"Garland Gray II" <g.g...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:n9Vva.89831$3h5.4...@news2.east.cox.net...
Ken
seen several of them do just that. The ignited fuel charge (lights off
before TDC) can overpower the clockwise motion from the starter and push
things counter-clockwise. The ignition system doesn't use flywheel magnets
for a trigger, it keeps making sparks. If you have the chance check a
parts catalog for these old engines. You will find an anti-reverse spring to
keep it from happening.
I'm thinking the engine has more than a bad spring to cause this problem but
that is a good spot to start looking.
Steve Barker <railph...@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AfUva.38292$dl6.2...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Trainfan1
"Steve Barker" <railph...@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AfUva.38292$dl6.2...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> starts spinning the other direction. Did EVERYONE miss this key alleged
> symptom? I think the important thing is that the engine starts. Unless
it
> goes backwards when you push the lever forward, there's NO PROBLEM.
That's why I have to see pics. We're not getting the whole story... yes,
the engine could run backwards, but it's not(he says clockwise...), and the
field is the right one, so now I'm thinking it must be an optical
illusion... the starter drive (the small one) for this armature is only use
on cw engines, 2 & 3 cylinder loopers and GEN II (69-72) V-4s. If the
anti-reverse spring is intact, it wont fire if cranked backwards(ccw), and
then the chance of a quick compression reversal is unlikely to be enough to
get the engine running cw.
BUT... have any of you seen the Bombardier RER reverse on Ski-Doos? It is a
miracle, almost, that it ever works, but it does flawlessly. Who'd 'a
thought!
Rob
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Gary Harper
found that my starter was correct and my motor is trying to run backwards.
I'm a bit dyslexic sometimes so that slipped by me at first.
Gary
"Trainfan1" <LMSE...@usadatanet.net> wrote in message
news:3ec00...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
Eisboch
spring that you wound up by turning a crank on the top of the engine. Pushed
a button, and the spring spun the engine to start.
Eisboch
Dan Krueger
http://store.yahoo.com/dolphinope/lawnmowers.html
Gene Kearns wrote:
>Jeeze, I remember those things...... and the "Fly-Mow", too......
>
>On Tue, 13 May 2003 01:35:28 GMT, "Eisboch" <r.c.er...@att.net>
>wrote: