Interested in a 2003 Bayliner 185 Need advice on quality
Matt Costanza
I have decided that the Bayliner 185 with the bigger 190HP 4.3 Merc
suits my needs. The boat would be used in a fresh water lake in
Austin, Tx (Lake Travis and surrounding lakes).
I am interested in getting opionions on Bayliner quality as well as
the 185 specifically. From what I have been able to learn, Bayliner
has had some quality problems in the past but have improved their
build quality a great deal in the last few years.
I'm also looking for tips on how to find out the dealer cost on the
Bayliner 185. I have exactly one dealer to work with here in Austin Tx
(Austin Boats and Motors) They seem to have a MSRP mentality. I refuse
to pruchase a boat at or near MSRP.
Any help would be aprreciated. Please respond via my email address.
Regards,
--
Matt Costanza
Austin, Tx USA
Clams Canino
always be "starter boats" or "price point boats". The warrantee got a lot
better over the last few years, I'm not as sure about the boats themselves.
There's the same kinda slop in boat prices as there is in car prices - as a
*very* general rule.
-W
"Matt Costanza" <mcos...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ae5d57d5.03011...@posting.google.com...
Ted Campanelli
fresh/salt water. So far, I have had no complaints/problems about the
quality/workmanship of the boat - especially for the price.
The Bayliner is an "Entry Level" boat.
By an entry level boat I mean things like the following: The upholstery
and carpet, while ok, is not as heavy as what is found in higher priced
boats. The fittings are usually chrome plated white metal (perfectly
ok) instead of chrome plated brass. Using a "regular" marine
am/fm/cassette radio w/2 speakers instead of a top of the line radio
w/4speakers. There are other items also.
Bottom line - you are using the boat in fresh water, so these items are
negligible since they will not have the corrosive effects of salt water.
Yes, there are "higher quality" boats out there, BUT, they are several
thousand dollars more and, IMHO, the "higher quality" in many of them is
questionable. If you are willing to do a little extra maintenance, such
as washing the carpet more than once a season and using protectant on
the upholstery several times a season and waxing the boat 2 or 3 times a
season instead of once a season, get the Bayliner and pocket the
difference (or use it for those extra goodies like skis {:-)
Gould 0738
promotionally priced items are marked up very little between dealer cost and
the factory suggested MSRP.
While it's not the same trade, many years ago I was called every dirty name in
a person's vocabulary during the course of an aborted sale. This consumer
wizard demanded to see the invoice on a new Dodge Colt, and accused me of
everything
short of raping his daughter when I showed
him the actual document and he noted less than $300 difference between invoice
and MSRP at that time. (Back then, MSRP was about $6k and "invoice" was over
$5700). The general rules about markup on high ticket items are just that,
general.
Your local Ford or Chevy dealer sells more units on a busy weekend than your
Bayliner dealer might sell in a year. The boat guy doesn't have the volume to
justify selling at a penny over invoice, or even close. The overhead expenses
for selling a boat are the same whether the boat is a 19-footer or a 40-footer,
so the dealer might be less inclined to invade a slim margin to "make a deal"
on a boat that usually sells without much trouble to price-oriented shoppers
anyway.
Quality wise, the 185 should be sufficient for light use on an inland lake,
under weather conditions when any prudent person would consider setting out in
a 19 foot boat. Don't expect the boat to be as substantially built as some of
its more expensive competitors, in some areas it would come up a little short.
It's a promotional item, built down to a price point rather than up to a
standard, and in that aspect it is different than the majority of the regular
Bayliner line. You're getting a little less boat with a 185, not just as much
boat for a little less money. However, if we all set out to buy only the best
and most substantially built boats available, few of us would be able to afford
a boat at all, and fewer yet would own what
we do. Under normal, light duty, recreational conditions you and your family
will be just as safe in a Bayliner 185 as most of the available alternatives,
and you will surely have about the same amount of fun.
So in summary: small dealer margin may prevent much dealing, boat is a little
less boat than some of the competition, but you should have just as much fun
with it and be just as safe when used as described.
Owning and enjoying a 185 sure beats heck out of sitting on the beach and
griping about the relative quality of boats. :-)
Gould 0738
>hours on that inland lake. Based on past experience and not knowing
>the exact method of Bayliner floor construction, I would recommend
>keeping it covered or garaged when not in use.
The floor in the very smallest Bayliners has been carpet glued to plywood. May
still be, but I haven't seen a 2003 model yet. Keeping such a floor covered is
sound advice.
IFRC, the Ciera series and above all have FRP floorboards.
Tom Knight
griping about the relative quality of boats.
As we say in Maine, "Heah, heah!"
Great observation.
Tom Knight
that got to do with anything? Have fun!
"Henry B." <black...@bananas.cc> wrote in message
news:b01ups$726$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> In article <ae5d57d5.03011...@posting.google.com>,
> I am not an expert, but I was checking out the Bayliner display at the
> Houston boat show last weekend with a friend and neither of us came
> away very impressed.
>
> There was a lot of fit and finish problems that were plainly evident.
>
> I don't like rapping hulls with my hand and having them give a lot either.
>
> Have you read this "Bayliner Horror" episode yet?
> http://carolinanavy.com/fleet2/f2/zoutdoors/Boatinghall/cas/284.html
>
> There are several spots marked on my Gulf of Mexico offshore map
> near Galveston & Freeport Texas as "31' Bayliner wreck", "28' Bayliner"
etc..
> Coincidence?
>
> Personally I would keep looking... but hey! That's just IMHO!
>
>
>
>
> >Regards,
Gould 0738
>have not heard the outcome. I think the story is plausible, I wonder
>how true it really is.
After making much noise about the situation, the folks with the unhappy
Bayliner experience went very silent indeed. Many speculated that Olympic Boat
Centers and/or Bayliner stepped in and took some steps to correct the
situation, but imposed a "gag order" as part of the agreement.
The story is remarkable because it is so unusual. It doesn't represent what the
average Bayliner buyer should expect. The problem turned out to be a
mis-plumbed live well that was pumping water into the boat. The problem was
compounded by some very bad advice given over the telephone by a salesman at
the dealership and some extremely bad decisions made by the boat owners, (i.e.
they were safely docked, with a boat known to be taking on water, but they got
underway again and headed back across the bay because a salesman-not on the
scene- advised them they should).
>Do you have any other wrecks noted, by manufacturer, on your charts.
>Strange habit.
>
The fact that the basher refers to his chart as an "offshore map" says
something, doesn't it?
>>There are several spots marked on my Gulf of Mexico offshore map
>>near Galveston & Freeport Texas as "31' Bayliner wreck", "28' Bayliner"
>etc..
>>Coincidence?
Ron M. from down that way says he has never seen a Bayliner actually fishing in
the Gulf. Maybe it's because they all sank, and Henry B. was on hand to witness
each one and note it on his "offshore map." :-)
That's one disadvantage to Bayliner that nobody mentioned to the original
inquirer-
you get to listen to a lot of folks who either have different needs than you do
or don't even own a boat at all rattle on about what a screw-up you are for
buying one.
For light recreational use on an inland lake and during good weather, a 185
will be fine. Larger Bayliners can endure quite a bit more. Bayliners just over
30-feet routinely cruise from Seattle up to Alaska and back, negotiating a few
stretches of
pretty lumpy water enroute.
Matt Costanza
>> Bayliner is of sufficient quality to give you many enjoyable
>>hours on that inland lake. Based on past experience and not knowing
>>the exact method of Bayliner floor construction, I would recommend
>>keeping it covered or garaged when not in use.
>>
>
> The floor in the very smallest Bayliners has been carpet glued to plywood. May
> still be, but I haven't seen a 2003 model yet. Keeping such a floor covered is
> sound advice.
From what I understand, it is plywood enclosed in fiberglass. They have
a lifetime warranty on the deck and the hull.
Gould 0738
>
No, and no. But I know dozens of people who do, and virtually all are at least
generally satisfied with their boats.
>As I originally stated my comments were all "in my humble opinion". You
>are entitled yours along with mine fella.
And on that point, we are in complete agreement.
Good fishing!
Gould 0738
>a lifetime warranty on the deck and the hull.
>
>Regards,
>--
>Matt Costanza
>Austin, Tx USA
A change for 2003?
The 2002 models I inspected at a local boat show had carpeted floorboards. When
pulling up a hatch and checking the layers of material exposed, I didn't notice
any fiberglass. Could be me, however, and I might have missed the glass.
I will be the first to admit that my experience is very limited on trailerable
runabouts. Never owned one, only sold a few, and don't spend a lot of time
concentrating on that end of the industry.
megabite
for an entry level boat, a Bayliner is a good choice for the budget
conscious. Who isn't budget conscious these days. Besides, if it suits your
tastes buy it!.If Bayliner was the absolute horror story claaimed by some
they would've been history long ago.
"Matt Costanza" <mcos...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ae5d57d5.03011...@posting.google.com...
Joseph A. Rich
advice (some even worth it!). I went ahead and purchased a used 2000 1950
Capri for use on our 3600 Acre Lake. Although there are much faster and
fancier boats on this lake, for light skiing and heavy tubing as well as
cruising with the wife and a few friends I am more than satisfied. Mine has
the smaller 3.0 MercCruiser, but will reach 45mph on a good day and pull
a skier reasonably "out of the hole". I have had zero problems with the boat,
but I'm sure that time will change that. I put over 100 hours on the lake
(maybe 80 on the motor) and hope to do the same this coming season.
Call me a happy Bayliner owner, but then again it's my first boat and I don't
know any different.
Have fun with whatever you get.
Regards,
Joe
In article <b04ueo$7j9$1...@news.chatlink.com>, "megabite" <mega...@l3wc.com>
wrote:
Burnt Ham
now) in my garage, happily whirring away. i use it to pull up all my
shop manuals i have on PDF....
greg
"Henry B." wrote:
>
> In article <b0738a$i7e$1...@ins22.netins.net>, j...@nospam.teamquest.com (Joseph A. Rich) wrote:
>
> >Last year I was the one in this forum asking about Bayliners and got lots of
> >advice (some even worth it!). I went ahead and purchased a used 2000 1950
> >Capri for use on our 3600 Acre Lake. Although there are much faster and
> >fancier boats on this lake, for light skiing and heavy tubing as well as
> >cruising with the wife and a few friends I am more than satisfied. Mine has
> >the smaller 3.0 MercCruiser, but will reach 45mph on a good day and pull
> >a skier reasonably "out of the hole". I have had zero problems with the boat,
> >but I'm sure that time will change that. I put over 100 hours on the lake
> >(maybe 80 on the motor) and hope to do the same this coming season.
> >Call me a happy Bayliner owner, but then again it's my first boat and I don't
> >know any different.
>
> My first computer was a Packard Bell....
>
> ;^)
Clams Canino
I'll report back tomorrow. :)
-W
"Harry Krause" <harry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b07f5r$mm2c7$2...@ID-21096.news.dfncis.de...
>
>
> Did the USPS come through for me?
>
> H.
>
Clams Canino
PO box and let the kids stuff slide through to the home box. So if they're
on the ball, nothing with my name on it should get out of the building.
In the case of a book, that shouldn't fit in the little home mailbox, I'd
bet they're holding it with a pick-up ticket in my PO box to tell me to go
to the counter to get it.
-W
"Harry Krause" <harry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b07fnm$ls8gl$1...@ID-21096.news.dfncis.de...
> OK...you don't have home delivery?
>
Gary
Never any problems....
Beat the crap out of it and it still performs season after season.
Cant wait till spring to use it another season in the salt!!
Gary
"Matt Costanza" <mcos...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ae5d57d5.03011...@posting.google.com...
Charles Grinstead
Take it to email you morons...
"Clams Canino" <b17of...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ItHV9.13242$kH3.2184@sccrnsc03...
Clams Canino
<hint follows------------> Don't presume you have any power to tell
people what to do. You don't.
-W
PS: To Harry......... My wife, did on her daily rounds, fail and neglect to
check the PO box. It's gotta be there by now. I'm around all day tomorrow
so I'll make sure it gets done.
-W
"Charles Grinstead" <c...@insight.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:b09rrq$nkk$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
Dan O'Reilly
boat, a lot of fun to drive. That bigger motor REALLY makes it get up
and move. I've had zero complaints about it mechanically (save for a
footprint on the back of a seat; they replaced the seat). About the
only complaint I have about it is its very-low-speed handling.
Anything under about 8mph or so, it wants to wander a bit, making for
interesting times when steering thru wakeless areas.
As for price, they are practically giving away boats right now in
Colorado, with the drought we've been having. I paid $15k for it, but
that was about $2k off list (inc. trailer), plus they threw in nearly
another grand worth of covers and other equipment. If you wouldn't
mind a drive up to Colorado, you can get some good deals here.
Clams Canino
If you wish I can paypal you for the shipping cost?
-W
"Clams Canino" <b17of...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CJ_V9.25003$kH3.3224@sccrnsc03...
Tony Thomas
Guess it just depends on if you use the boat and maintain it.
--
Tony
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomastl1
"Gary" <Nos...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:v2etjup...@corp.supernews.com...
Tony Thomas
Really reduces the wander on my boat at super low speed.
--
Tony
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomastl1
"Dan O'Reilly" <da...@process.com> wrote in message
news:fckh2vo1n80cc0int...@4ax.com...
Larry Weiss
liter.
BUT ... it *is* a Bayliner, and it has been developing the little problems I
fully expected it would (having owned another Bayliner once before). The
boat is only 4 seasons old and we've already had to replace rotting wood.
Snaps have broken off. Screws have fallen out. The upholstery is beginning
to tear at the stitches. One of the stern passenger seats continually
collapses, no longer supporting passengers. The stern light socket is
corroded. The graphics on the helm are completely faded. The helm cover
plate has buckled and the switches are popping out. Grommets have popped
out of the mooring cover, etc., etc., etc. These are stupid problems that
are the result of using cheap materials.
Note: As I said, I fully expected problems like these, so they don't really
bother me. I post these problems only because they are part of the
realities of owning a low end boat like a Bayliner. We only bought this
boat to fool around with, do a little tubing, skiing and for my daughter to
use. It is not our main boat. I didn't want to pay a lot of money for a
boat like this, and I was and am willing to deal with these little Bayliner
annoyances, so Bayliner was a good choice for our purposes. I recommend
that anyone considering a Bayliner or similar low-end brand be aware of and
be prepared for these little issues so that when they do indeed pop up they
become challenging little projects rather than big disappointments or
frustrations.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!" 1994 Carver Mariner 330
"a little after..." 1998 Bayliner 1950 Capri
Tony Thomas
a cover also. That is abouit the only way the wood would be rotten in a
1998 boat. My Baker speed boat had regular wood in the seats and it took 10
years before I had to start replacing it.
--
Tony
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomastl1
"Harry Krause" <harry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0e5fi$om7e4$1...@ID-21096.news.dfncis.de...
> Larry Weiss wrote:
> > We enjoy our 1998 Bayliner 1950 Capri. Lots of fun, peppy - even with
the 3
> > liter.
> >
> > BUT ... it *is* a Bayliner, and it has been developing the little
problems I
> > fully expected it would (having owned another Bayliner once before).
The
> > boat is only 4 seasons old and we've already had to replace rotting
wood.
> > Snaps have broken off. Screws have fallen out. The upholstery is
beginning
> > to tear at the stitches. One of the stern passenger seats continually
> > collapses, no longer supporting passengers. The stern light socket is
> > corroded. The graphics on the helm are completely faded. The helm
cover
> > plate has buckled and the switches are popping out. Grommets have
popped
> > out of the mooring cover, etc., etc., etc. These are stupid problems
that
> > are the result of using cheap materials.
>
>
> Larry, these are indeed "minor" problems, but there are a lot of them
> and they speak directly to materials and methods of assembly and
> attachment. You have to wonder if the boat is developing "major"
> problems that simply haven't made themselves known or are not so easily
> seen.
>
Burnt Ham
there's not much else to go wrong... they didn't make the drive, so
that can't screw up that bad. unless there's some unseen horrible hull
damage... hmmm... then it's scuttlin' time! (JK_)
while i agree 100% that reflects on the build quality that these things
are going to poop, if the boat sits outside in the elements that's gonna
happen. some friends have a mastercraft that sits in a slip 9 months
out of the year that is experiencing most of these symptoms....
when i was at the boat show, the fit-n-finish on those boats compared to
the ones higher up in the scale was glaringly apparent, however, pirce
sells, and if a person was meticulous and not worried about things like
exposed rivet heads, well, they migh be OK.
-like the sweaty guy in the bayliner office i saw signing on that note!-
ah hell, who cares, they'll keep the service industry busy.
greg
Harry Krause wrote:
>
> Larry Weiss wrote:
> > We enjoy our 1998 Bayliner 1950 Capri. Lots of fun, peppy - even with the 3
> > liter.
> >
> > BUT ... it *is* a Bayliner, and it has been developing the little problems I
> > fully expected it would (having owned another Bayliner once before). The
> > boat is only 4 seasons old and we've already had to replace rotting wood.
> > Snaps have broken off. Screws have fallen out. The upholstery is beginning
> > to tear at the stitches. One of the stern passenger seats continually
> > collapses, no longer supporting passengers. The stern light socket is
> > corroded. The graphics on the helm are completely faded. The helm cover
> > plate has buckled and the switches are popping out. Grommets have popped
> > out of the mooring cover, etc., etc., etc. These are stupid problems that
> > are the result of using cheap materials.
>
Burnt Ham
anything i could fix in my garage or driveway myself with the help of
some cold beer is no problem.
rotting stringers and engines falling of their mounts, that's something
i wouldn't wanna tackle!
greg
Harry Krause wrote:
>
> Burnt Ham wrote:
> > i'm thinking, on a smaller boat with not all that much accessory wise,
> > there's not much else to go wrong... they didn't make the drive, so
> > that can't screw up that bad. unless there's some unseen horrible hull
> > damage... hmmm... then it's scuttlin' time! (JK_)
>
> "They" can screw up the installation of the drive, the stringers on
> which it is installed, the wiring harness and a lot more.
>
> When you are dealing with a boat manufacturer whose goal is to build as
> cheaply as possible, you will find many corners cut...and you've
> eventually find a lot more "unseen" corners have been cut.
>
> As for the wood in the aforementioned boat rotting after four seasons,
> well, it shouldn't have...not if it were the right kind of wood,
> properly protected.
>
> Many boat manufacturers switched from wood stringers and support systems
> not because synthetics were better, but because they were cheaper, and
> required less labor to fabricate and install. If you take XL plywood,
> for example, and encase it properly in a fiberglass transom, nothing is
> going to happen to it. If you drill holes in the transom and allow water
> in the holes without protecting the wood, eventually, after many years,
> even the XL ply may be a problem. Maybe. But if you epoxy the edges of
> the holes you drill and keep the water off the wood, you will not have a
> problem. And you likely will have a stronger transom than if the
> fiberglass were encasing some nondescript foam.
Larry Weiss
trailer when not in use. It is currently shrink wrapped for the winter.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Larry Weiss
Harry Krause wrote:
> Burnt Ham wrote:
> > i'm thinking, on a smaller boat with not all that much accessory wise,
> > there's not much else to go wrong... they didn't make the drive, so
> > that can't screw up that bad. unless there's some unseen horrible hull
> > damage... hmmm... then it's scuttlin' time! (JK_)
>
> "They" can screw up the installation of the drive, the stringers on
> which it is installed, the wiring harness and a lot more.
>
> When you are dealing with a boat manufacturer whose goal is to build as
> cheaply as possible, you will find many corners cut...and you've
> eventually find a lot more "unseen" corners have been cut.
>
> As for the wood in the aforementioned boat rotting after four seasons,
> well, it shouldn't have...not if it were the right kind of wood,
> properly protected.
The rotted wood in question was the hatch cover in the deck that opens to the
bilge. I posted here about it last summer when I discovered it. It was a
piece of plywood with some carpet stapled on. (The staples were all rusted,
too. They didn't bother with stainless steel staples). I quickly replaced
it with another piece of plywood, but this time I applied a couple of coats
of waterproof sealer completely over the wood. Then I re-stapled the carpet
back on and replaced the metal fittings. It was a relatively quick project,
but I really shouldn't have had to do it in the first place. The replacement
should last at least as long as the original. :^)
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after...!"
Michael Seeley
(you seemed to have mellowed as of late) Let's see how you do with the
spring oil wars.... BTW, A punch in the nose??? Kind of cranky in our
advancing years aren't we?
