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USED BOAT PRICING

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StevePearl

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

I know dealers read the board. Give me a straight foward answer. Why are there
two books on used boats??? One BLUE. and one YELLOW ??? The blue book all the
dealers use at the show are approx $8,000-$10,00 less than the yellow
book!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why???? In the yellow book my boat lists for resale for
$29,000, not counting in the extras I put on the boat. Blue book is $21,000,
BIG DIFFERENCE. Now if someone can reply with a straight answer i'm sure myself
and my fellow boaters would appreciate it. We are all tired of getting greased
by dealers who KNOW IT ALL.Who talk to us like we don't know anything about
boats. I went to the AC Show today,wanted to talk about price
and options on the boat,the guy had no idea what I was talking about, all I got
was "Ill find out" DUHHHHHH. Thanks Steve


BlueBookEd

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

>Why are there
>two books on used boats??? One BLUE. and one YELLOW

>Now if someone can reply with a straight answer i'm sure myself


>and my fellow boaters would appreciate it.

Actually Steve there are 4 boat used value price guides. ABOS Marine Blue Book
since 1949
BUC Used Boat Price Guide since 1961
N.A.D.A. Boat Appraisal Guide since 1978
PowerBoat Guide since 1986

The difference between the ABOS Blue book and the others is the ABOS book lists
wholesale trade-in values where the other books list a range of retail values.
The yellow book has a 40% spread from low retail to high retail. If you
compared the yellow book retail to the wholesale value in the ABOS book that
would explain the difference.
There was an article in this months Boating World discussing this very topic.
Each publisher has his own sources for used values and there are often
discrepancies in published prices.
The Book that I have been editor of for 17 years, the ABOS Marine Blue Book, is
the most widely used by the dealers.
Used values in the book are my best guess based on dealer reports and asking
prices based on thousands of boats for sale from classified ads such as can be
found in www.allaboutboats.com. Asking prices are factored down 10-15% for
final selling price. I throw all those prices in my database program and come
up with nationally averaged prices. Adjustments MUST be made to published
prices in each market area for popularity of certain brands and sizes of boats.
None of the price guide books publish a regional edition. BUC publishes a
regional adjustment chart but I have not found the adjustment scale (my
opinion) to be reasonably accurate so I do not publish one. CONDITION is the
single most important factor when determining used value prices. Clean, well
maintained boats will bring more than book. Poorly maintained boats will bring
less than book. The price guides are not the final word on what a boat is
worth but often is a starting point for negotiations.
Hope this helps answer your questions. Let me know what they give you for your
boat so I can check it against the ABOS book and see how close I was.

Tom Fournier
ABOS Marine Blue Book

WWM5500

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

Dealers don't use books, banks do.
The NADA book, however is much more reflective of "real life" than the ABOS,
BUC or Parker McNew versions in the NE market, FWIW.

MPerlst216

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

Dealers don't use books, banks do.

THATS BULL CRAP.
Many dealers pull out the lowest price book to show you wen you ar
eselling/trading in, and pull out the highest price book when it is time for
them to sell you a used boat. And many dealers have a bank in their back pocket
to finance prices over real NADA prices.

BlueBookEd

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

>Dealers don't use books, banks do.

I will have to disagree. Our latest research shows that
we sell our ABOS Blue Book to 75% of all dealers who sell used boats. Some
dealers also buy the yellow book for a second opinion.
Books are used to get the ball rolling on trade-in, not the final word.

Tom Fournier
ABOS Blue Book

William J Murin

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

It is actually worse than that. There are THREE commonly used used boat pricing guides:
ABOS(blue), NADA(yellow) and the BUC book(Color varies by year).

There is an article in BOATING WORLD (most likely Feb. issue) which discusses the
methodology used by each firm to gather the data.

Since my group only sells sailboats I'll let the powerboat guys provide you with specifics
as to why they sued the pricing guide they do.

Bill Murin
THE YACHT SHOP


--

William J Murin

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

William J Murin (mu...@uwp.edu) wrote:

> Since my group only sells sailboats I'll let the powerboat guys provide you with specifics
> as to why they sued the pricing guide they do.

Sorry about that. Please make the word "used." Too much suing going on these days anyway.

Bill Murin

Fournet

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

>Dealers don't use books, banks do.
>The NADA book, however is much more reflective of "real life" than the ABOS,
>BUC or Parker McNew versions in the NE market, FWIW.

Since your first statement is so very wrong I wonder what you base your second
statement on? And what does FWIW mean? Is it an acronym for something? Fool
With Internet W?.
Have you done a survey? Maybe NADA has your particular boat priced within
their 40% spread so does that make them right throughout all of New England?
I know a lot of dealers in the NE who say prices in the ABOS book more
accurately reflect real world prices than the other books.
With over 200,000 boats motors and trailers listed in the Blue Book I'm sure
I'm off on some but overall I think the book gives reasonable prices on boats.
Except personal watercraft prices have hit the toilet since the last edition
came out so we are too high there.

SIJackie

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

The price of a used boat is determined by what the buyer of that boat is
willing to pay for it. Don't make this harder than it needs to be. First,
find out what comparable boats in comparable condition are selling for in YOUR
area. No need to worry about BUCnet, or some other artificial pricing network.
Look in the newapapers, trade journals, and Soundings. Develop your opinion
of the average price. Then factor in what the boat is worth to YOU, not your
broker. Make a good will offer of 75% of that price and be prepared to
negotiate upward if the the seller shows interest in negotiating downward.

Bingo, you arrive at the "right" price....

Bob Sorensen

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
to

As a dealer I agree with Tom. Every dealership I have worked for has relied
heavily on the ABOS Blue Book. We monitor the others but when we buy or
trade in a used boat we'll rely on ABOS every time. Keep up the good work
Tom!

Bob Sorensen
Service Director
Boat Tree, Inc.

Fournet wrote in message <19980119183...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...

Gould 0738

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
to

mperlst wrote>Dealers don't use books, banks do.

When Moses went up on the mountain, he didn't come back with a blue book. Yet
many people seem to think that this book, or that book, is Gospel.

None of the amazing "blue books" have order blanks in them. The people who edit
the books are not prepared to write you a check for your boat... and to that
extent I must agree that a book is "Bull Crap".

A used boat is worth no more or no less than a willing buyer is willing to pay
and a willing seller is willing to accept. Until a used boat sells nobody
really knows what it's
"worth".

How many people shop endlessly for the cream puff, once in a lifetime, mint
condition
boat and then when they find it get really pissy because it's for sale at a
price higher than
some book lists for the "average" example of that make and model? Conversely,
anybody with junk for sale absolutely loves "book buyers" since the published
price will help support a whopping profit on a questionable boat.

BlueBookEd

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
to

>When Moses went up on the mountain, he didn't come back with a blue book. Yet
>many people seem to think that this book, or that book, is Gospel.
>

>A used boat is worth no more or no less than a willing buyer is willing to


>pay
>and a willing seller is willing to accept. Until a used boat sells nobody
>really knows what it's
>"worth".
>
>How many people shop endlessly for the cream puff, once in a lifetime, mint
>condition
>boat and then when they find it get really pissy because it's for sale at a
>price higher than
>some book lists for the "average" example of that make and model? Conversely,
>anybody with junk for sale absolutely loves "book buyers" since the published
>price will help support a whopping profit on a questionable boat.
>

Well put, all except the part about the Blue Book being crap of course.

People get hung up on Blue Book prices agreed. They should temper all price
guides with CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION.
Many buyers think the boat they are considering purchasing is overrated in the
Book and think their own boat is disparaged in the book. One of the problems
with price guide books is people that don't know any better take them as the
last word.
They are dangerous in the wrong hands which is why we don't sell to the general
public.

Tom Fournier
Marine Blue Book


WWM5500

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Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
to

>THATS BULL CRAP.<BR>
>Many dealers pull out the lowest price book to show you wen you ar<BR>

>eselling/trading in, and pull out the highest price book when it is time
>for<BR>

>them to sell you a used boat. And many dealers have a bank in their back
>pocket<BR>

>to finance prices over real NADA prices.

Which dealers, specifically, are you refering to? I have been a dealer fo over
35 years. We don't use books to buy or sell boats, nor do we have a bank in ou
"back pocket".

WWM5500

unread,
Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
to

>Since your first statement is so very wrong I wonder what you base your
>second<BR>

>statement on? And what does FWIW mean? Is it an acronym for something?
>Fool<BR>
>With Internet W?.<BR>

>Have you done a survey? Maybe NADA has your particular boat priced
>within<BR>

>their 40% spread so does that make them right throughout all of New England?
><BR>
>I know a lot of dealers in the NE who say prices in the ABOS book more<BR>
>accurately reflect real world prices than the other books.<BR>

>With over 200,000 boats motors and trailers listed in the Blue Book I'm
>sure<BR>

>I'm off on some but overall I think the book gives reasonable prices on
>boats. <BR>

>Except personal watercraft prices have hit the toilet since the last
>edition<BR>
>came out so we are too high there.<BR>

I've been a dealer and a member of industry groups for 35 years and my
statements are based upon that experience.
Please tell me, which dealers tell you that your book is the most acurate. I
would be interested to speak with them. Thanks in advance.


WWM5500

unread,
Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
to

>The price of a used boat is determined by what the buyer of that boat is<BR>

>willing to pay for it. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.
>First,<BR>

>find out what comparable boats in comparable condition are selling for in
>YOUR<BR>

>area. No need to worry about BUCnet, or some other artificial pricing
>network.<BR>

> Look in the newapapers, trade journals, and Soundings. Develop your
>opinion<BR>

>of the average price. Then factor in what the boat is worth to YOU, not
>your<BR>
>broker. Make a good will offer of 75% of that price and be prepared to<BR>

>negotiate upward if the the seller shows interest in negotiating downward.
><BR>
><BR>

>Bingo, you arrive at the "right" price

Perfectly stated!

Barabino

unread,
Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
to

>And many dealers have a bank in their back
>pocket.

You could probably count, on one hand, the number of boat dealers in the US who
are large enough to have a bank *in their back pocket*


Dan Barabino
bara...@aol.com

Vaughn

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Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
to

SIJackie wrote:
>
> The price of a used boat is determined by what the buyer of that boat is
> willing to pay for it. Don't make this harder than it needs to be. First,
> find out what comparable boats in comparable condition are selling for in YOUR
> area. No need to worry about BUCnet, or some other artificial pricing network.
> Look in the newapapers, trade journals, and Soundings. Develop your opinion
> of the average price. Then factor in what the boat is worth to YOU, not your
> broker. Make a good will offer of 75% of that price and be prepared to
> negotiate upward if the the seller shows interest in negotiating downward.
>
> Bingo, you arrive at the "right" price....

That's a nice idea but sales are not reported. Local papers and
Soundings show ideas not sales, at least Buc's is based on sale prices.
75% can work but if the boat is reasonably priced the seller will tell
where to look, elsewhere. Comparables? What's comparable to a Capri
22? A very popular boat like a Catalina 22 is easy, others get very
tough.

Gould 0738

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
to

Dan Barabino wrote>You could probably count, on one hand, the number of boat

dealers in the US
>who
>are large enough to have a bank *in their back pocket*

The source of this confusion seems readily apparent. While there are few
dealers large enough to have a bank in their back pocket, there are a whole lot
of dealers small enough to have the local bank "on their butt" all the time! To
the average consumer, it probably just looks like the dealer's "back pocket".

Brinboat

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
to

Tom Wrote:

>People get hung up on Blue Book prices agreed. They should temper all price
>guides with CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION.
>Many buyers think the boat they are considering purchasing is overrated in
>the
>Book and think their own boat is disparaged in the book. One of the problems
>with price guide books is people that don't know any better take them as the

>last word.They are dangerous in the wrong hands which is why we don't sell to


the general public.
>
>Tom Fournier
>Marine Blue Book
>
>


Tom, there were many times when I would sell a used boat and then write the
insurance. I had many battles with the underwriters
who attempted to reduce the coverage I had written because it was "too high"
based upon their book.

Even though I pointed out that the boat had just sold for that amount and that
is what determined the real value, they would continue to argue. (Talk about
blind faith in a book).

Fortunately for my customers, I usually prevailed, but what of the agents who
accepted the underwriter's word as the law? Some of the books may be more
accurate on a particular boat, but as you have said: they are a guide - a
starting point.
Jim Brinson - President of the Empire State Marine Trades Association (ESMTA)

SIJackie

unread,
Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
to

Some years ago, I bought a used, small, high-quality sailboat for $3.2k. When
I applied for insurance, my agent told me the boat was worth $9.5k (based on
the Blue Book) and that was what I had to insure it for. Try as I might, he
would not budge (as the higher value meant a higher premium). I eventually
took my business elsewhere and was able to insure my boat for the "right"
value: what I paid for it.

Vaughn

unread,
Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
to

I doubt that anyone would say that a blue book, black book etc. is THE
PRICE. What is does is give you a starting point. The BUC's guide has a
few pages upfront about adjustments. Then you have to determine if
that's your view. When I bought my sailboat, one dealer indicated that
a large number but hardly all sold NEAR Buc values. One boat I looked
at was overpriced per BUC and my mind. The dealer indicated that it was
a popular boat, something that no one guide can account for. In the
end, I didn't care and boat something which as a little less than the
BUC value but was showroom new. Happy. You say so what. The Buc guide
was a good starting point. It's not gospel but a tool among many to
determine value.

BlueBookEd

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Jan 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/23/98
to
Wow Jackie, you must have got some kind of great deal. Too bad he didn't offer
to buy it for even half of what he wanted to insure it for.
I wonder if the boat had been a complete loss several months down the line how
quick he would have been to pay you the $9.5K.
Sailboats do hold their value better than any other type of boat. The main
reason being a much smaller portion of its value is tied up in depretiating
mechanical systems. Most runabouts and fishing boats up to 22' have 50% of
their value tied up in something that has a measurably limited life span. It
is not uncommon for a five year old quality built sailboat to retain 75% of its
original value.

Tom Fournier
Blue Book editor

Tom Fournier

Fournet

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Jan 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/23/98
to

>I've been a dealer and a member of industry groups for 35 years and my
>statements are based upon that experience.
>Please tell me, which dealers tell you that your book is the most acurate. I
>would be interested to speak with them. Thanks in advance.
>
One of my favorite dealers in the New York area is White Water Marine in
Sayville Long Island, just north of Great South Bay. They know how to deal in
offshore fishing boats.
5600 Sunrise Highway. 516-567-4040.

Gary Sanders W

unread,
Jan 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/23/98
to

Sounds like a bad move to me. Was the $3.2K an exceptionally good price or was
the blue book value just high. If it was a good price then I would want to
issue it for what I could get another boat for. If the bluebook was high then
you did the right thing.


In article <19980122190...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, sija...@aol.com
says...


>
>Some years ago, I bought a used, small, high-quality sailboat for $3.2k. When
>I applied for insurance, my agent told me the boat was worth $9.5k (based on
>the Blue Book) and that was what I had to insure it for. Try as I might, he
>would not budge (as the higher value meant a higher premium). I eventually
>took my business elsewhere and was able to insure my boat for the "right"
>value: what I paid for it.

--
Gary Sanders(N8EMR)
g...@n8emr.nitetech.com


Vaughn

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Jan 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/24/98
to

SIJackie wrote:
>
> Some years ago, I bought a used, small, high-quality sailboat for $3.2k. When
> I applied for insurance, my agent told me the boat was worth $9.5k (based on
> the Blue Book) and that was what I had to insure it for. Try as I might, he
> would not budge (as the higher value meant a higher premium). I eventually
> took my business elsewhere and was able to insure my boat for the "right"
> value: what I paid for it.
Unless it was a replacement policy, i.e. one that bought you a new boat
of the exact same kind, then you are usually free to insure your
property for what you want (in some case this is done via a higher
deductible). If you have a lender, then it would generally need to be
atleast the loan value. It sounds like your insurance salesman was
looking out for his interest not yours. Question what size was your
sailboat? My homeowners insurance covers boat 25 feet and less and 25
hp and less.

Ledaril

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Jan 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/24/98
to

anyone interested in a v-6 omc lower unit please respond. i have one in good
shape. make reasonable offer.

Matt Cook

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Feb 11, 2022, 1:43:42 PM2/11/22
to
On Saturday, January 24, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Ledaril wrote:
> anyone interested in a v-6 omc lower unit please respond. i have one in good
> shape. make reasonable offer.

The site https://www.boatgeo.com currently has over 25k boats for sale from every state so it's a good place to go to research prices and compare.

Bryan Lenett

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Jan 19, 2024, 7:08:39 PM1/19/24
to
I stumbled across this thread during research and it is amazing how the times have changed from books to online. Look at all the above and then look www.Boatzon.com and see what you can do today. finance, insurance, seeing the value of your boat in 10 seconds. Times have changed

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