Honda 115 or 130hp outboards
sha...@my-deja.com
recommend them and why.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Berg
an 18' aluminum boat and I am very happy with it. Hole shot is very close to
identical, and lost 5MPH on top end. Much quieter, idles MUCH better, and
fuel consumption is cut in half.
Only ding is that the weight IS noticeable. Not really a problem on this
size boat, but any smaller and I think you would notice it on the water. Be
sure to get a motor-toter to lock it to the trailer to save your transom if
you trailer much at all.
Dale Gillespie
fuel consumption is cut in half.
an 18' aluminum boat and I am very happy with it.
Wait till the Merc Shills hear about this!
FishWishr
Dale Gillespie
boatin' & fishin' the Californiadelta(.org)
Larry KN4IM
(manual bilge pump with a diaphram bigger than my girlfriend's), in
the aft cockpit of my bud's Endeavour 35, today. I never heard the
big Grady White round the ChrisCraft cruiser and wouldn't have seen
his Honda 130 powered beast if I hadn't raised my head up out of the
bilge to get a screwdriver. The big 130 made NO NOISE AT ALL cruising
through the marina towards a dock! VERY sneaky, indeed!
Well, one more hoseclamp and I'll have it. Why does Endeavour use so
MANY frames?! I had to put in an elbow to the intake to miss one of
them....JUST in front of the STERN!
Larry....(cue music to "on the road again") "IN THE BILGE, AGAIN! I
JUST CAN'T WAIT TO GET IN THE BILGE, AGAIN!".....(c;)....Hand me that
wrench and glass of merlot, will ya? Thanks.
Got her pumped out and ready for sea, tomorrow. We're going to sail
out to meet the racing fleet on its way back....too cool!
Raymond T. Lowe
says...
>
>Only ding is that the weight IS noticeable. Not really a problem on this
>size boat, but any smaller and I think you would notice it on the water. Be
>sure to get a motor-toter to lock it to the trailer to save your transom if
>you trailer much at all.
You have me wondering. I visited the boat yesterday and it is almost done.
I saw the trailer for the first time and noticed that the transom is a few
feet past the end of the trailer. The Honda 130 will have to be towed
tilted since it would be too close to the road in the operating position.
The boat builder is not too concerned but this is his first Honda. What
kind of damage can happen to the transom? Is it stress or the risk of
the motor slamming down?
When I "bounced" the transom, the trailer/boat was very springy.
RT
--
*Remove "bogus" when replying by e-mail*
Carl G. Craver
Honda engines.
Under normal conditions at a boat launch or marina, you have to look
at your tach or the water pump tell tale to even tell the motor is running,
even when it's on your own boat.
My experiences with the Honda 130 & 115 (same engine) are that they
are extremely quiet, they have great hole shot, and the weight isn't usually
a factor.
I do have some reservations on how well they are going to hold up to
heavy duty saltwater usage.
Carl G. Craver
Evinru...@home.com
Larry KN4IM <kayenfo...@nations.net> wrote in message
news:37ffeb2a...@news.supernews.com...
JDavis1277
Do you have some reason to believe the US military is using Hondas to any great
extent? As a guy who spent 35+ years in the Army around a lot of small boat
operations, I'm surprised by your comment. I retired not quite 3 years ago, so
perhaps there has been some kind of change in outlook.
I believe the "Buy America Act" remains in force, but could well be wrong.
Butch
Carl Craver wrote: >Hmm. . . I wonder if this is the reason the military has
Carl G. Craver
that went down off of long island a couple of years ago had Honda's on
them.
I really don't know what branch of government they were or if they were
just using private boats.
Carl G. Craver
Evinru...@home.com
JDavis1277 <jdavi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991010175611...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
Larry KN4IM
<evinru...@home.com> wrote:
>I do have some reservations on how well they are going to hold up to
>heavy duty saltwater usage.
>
>Carl G. Craver
>Evinru...@home.com
>
There is a very large pontoon barge used to ferry passengers from Mt
Pleasant, at Charleston Harbor Marina, across Charleston Harbor to the
Union Pier passenger terminal, all day, every day. The barge is
powered with twin Honda 90 outboards, one on the back of each pontoon
about 20 ft apart. I asked the captain how the Hondas were doing in
such heavy duty salt water environment. They are never taken out of
the water and merely sit with their foot submerged when the barge is
not in use. He told me they had no troubles with the 90's,
whatsoever, and had around 1800 hours on them! The oil is changed
every 100 hours and a new filter installed. Does that reassure you,
Carl? Great motors from a great company.
Larry
Carl G. Craver
The biggest thing that bothers me is all of the chrome plated screws, bolts
and nuts under the hood.
It's probably safe to say that we've all seen what salt does to chrome
plated steel.
Plus there are several items that are made of
cad plated steel instead of stainless steel.
BTW, the lower units on all the larger Honda outboards are built by Merc.
I just got a pinion gear for a 90hp Honda from Mercury because they are on
backorder from Honda.
Carl G. Craver
Evinru...@home.com
Larry KN4IM <kayenfo...@nations.net> wrote in message
news:38014e25...@news.supernews.com...
Anna Siam
I thought you were a "buy american" conservative type.
heh.
|Anna|
Dale Gillespie <fish...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:19991009101203...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
Dale Gillespie
>Hey fishwashr, I thought you were a "buy american" conservative type.
FishWashr? Did You read about my washing of the BIG sturgeon as I lay against
the transom, exhausted from the fight, or are you just trying to start
something here??
I am not a "buy American" conservative type. I am a by God, red neck, good 'ole
boy, reactionary NRA type. The difference is slight,but you thought wrong.
If an American firm made a like piece of equipment, I'd have bought it, no
question.
Personally, I blame it on the democrats for not having that choice. They've
screwed up everything, haven't they?
heh heh.
Anna Siam
Dale Gillespie <fish...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> >From: "Anna Siam"
> >Hey fishwashr, I thought you were a "buy american" conservative type.
>
> FishWashr? Did You read about my washing of the BIG sturgeon as I lay
against
> the transom, exhausted from the fight, or are you just trying to start
> something here??
Oh sorry, mis-read your code name thing.
>
> I am not a "buy American" conservative type. I am a by God, red neck, good
'ole
> boy, reactionary NRA type. The difference is slight,but you thought wrong.
>
> If an American firm made a like piece of equipment, I'd have bought it, no
> question.
>
> Personally, I blame it on the democrats for not having that choice.
They've
> screwed up everything, haven't they?
>
> heh heh.
But wasn't it during the Reagan administration the American manufacturing
jobs
got shipped overseas, and Ronnie "ketchup is a vegtable" Reagan replaced
them
with hamburger flipping jobs?
Go ahead, dispute the facts.
Yeah, blame the democrats for wanting clean, safe working conditions. Nope,
rich fat republicans might loose a nickel. So ship the jobs to a country
that uses
child labor, allows unregulated pollution, and doesn't give a hoot about
working
conditions.
Sleep well tonight, and count your gold again.
e
> FishWish r
^
Paul Jacobsen
>
> But wasn't it during the Reagan administration the American manufacturing
> jobs
> got shipped overseas, and Ronnie "ketchup is a vegtable" Reagan replaced
> them
> with hamburger flipping jobs?
>
> Go ahead, dispute the facts.
Ok, NAFTA and GATT were signed by Bubba just a few years ago during
the Bubba Administration. Want me to supply a few URL's to prove it?
> Yeah, blame the democrats for wanting clean, safe working conditions.
Nope,
> rich fat republicans might loose a nickel. So ship the jobs to a country
> that uses
> child labor, allows unregulated pollution, and doesn't give a hoot about
> working
> conditions.
>
> Sleep well tonight, and count your gold again.
Are Honda outboards made by child labor and do they cause unregulated
pollution? Kewwllllll....
BUY A MERC!! yup, yup, yup!
--
Paul
" Catch on fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you
burn." - John Wesley
William Thomas
others have big 4 cycle motors? I do not understand why this is such an
emotional issue with some. Honda has been making high quality 4 cycle
engines for a long time. They have always been concerned about HP to weight
ratios in the little cars they make - so it is only natural that they get to
market fast with other applications. The materials engineering that goes
into corrosion resistance is widely available. I doubt there will be a 2
cycle engine for sale in 2006 due to EFA regulations. I do not think the
major manufactures will care by then - they will all have large 4 cycle
engines that cost more at a higher profit and fail under warranty less. The
ones that do not will buy them from those that do and stick a sticker on
them. For those that think there is a technical limitation to making a big,
light (relatively), 4 cycle motor go to you local motorcycle dealer - buy a
superbike and add a big air pump like an optimax has.
Just my opinion
Makowicki
moving to cleaner engines. OMC and Merc are now offering excellent 2 strokes
and will have big powerful 4 strokes soon. If we all just quit and assume
Honda will built a better product for everyone in America then you are all
just gave up your nice life style to bow to your competition. Work harder and
smarter or just give up.
HarryKrause
>
> In article <19991012184314...@ng-bk1.aol.com>,> The higher prices the marketplace will pay for a Honda vs a Merc or OMC.
>
> The superb worlwide reputatation Honda has as an engine mfr.
Well, it's too late to save your shoes, but if you roll up your pants legs,
you can save your trousers from Ja'me's masturbatory Japanese wet dreams.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Neutrinos have mass? I didn't even know they're Catholic!
HarryKrause
>
> What makes you think Americans can't and don't built quality engines? I have a
> Ford with 230,000 miles on it. I had owned a Jap car before that and it held up
> fine to. Has one been better than the other not in my veiw. OMC and Merc can,
> have, and are building fine products. Yes the DFI had some problems but the
> makers are standing behind there product. Just think if we all owed Honda's
> nobody could trailor there boat to the lake and we wouldn't need to worry of
> outboards.
> I want more than 130 H.P.
Well, three Honda 130's might push a Gambler bass boat as fast as one Merc
225...maybe. With a tailwind.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
And don't dangle your participles in public.
Dale Gillespie
>Nope, rich fat republicans might loose a nickel.
I accept the compliment, if you are refering to me as a gold counting, rich,
fat republican. I used to use the term "fat cat" regularly, in a very
derogatory way. I was a union member, anti- management anti-republican, class
envious laboring for peanuts hot head.
Then I decided to start my own little gardening business. I decided I wanted to
become a fat cat, they're the ones with money.
So, if you'll give me your definition of rich, and if I fit your definition of
rich, I'll fess up to it and count it a major lifetime achievement to have
become a "rich, fat republican". If I do not quite fit the definition, I
assure you I'll try even harder to become one!
FishWishr
Makowicki
Larry KN4IM
One American company teters on the virge of bankrupcy. The other one
is now owned by a bowling pin company dedicated to profit, not
development. They had no choice but to try to save the 2-stoke
engines that are the heart of their companies, what with government
environmentalists breathing down their necks.
Even with injection, a 2-stroke engine is LOTS cheaper to build than a
4-stroke with its complex system of valves, recirculating oil
lubrication systems, etc. The reason they stick like glue to the
2-stroke engine is there is no cheaper engine to build than a simple
2-stroker lubricated by dumping oil into the crankcase. It's simple
and it's CHEAP, "maximizing shareholder value", in the buzzwords of
the investment bankers.
I doubt either workforce opens its day at 6AM doing exercises in the
company yard and singing company songs.....like the totally dedicated
Japanese workers do....
Larry
HarryKrause
> I doubt either workforce opens its day at 6AM doing exercises in the
> company yard and singing company songs.....like the totally dedicated
> Japanese workers do....
>
> Larry
Wow. Larry has seen a movie.
William Thomas
with V8's and love them. If Ford, GM, or Chrysler, would use the new lost
foam casting technology used in V4 and V6 car engines they could make great
outboards. It is not a question of America vs. Japan, it is a question of
technology and resources. US outboard manufactures are small compared to
any major car manufacture. These supercharged 2 cycle motors are an interim
fix to meet the demands of the EPA. The EPA will force the demise of the 2
stroke in 2006 if the current trend continues.
After doing some research I think this is EPA stuff is a waste of time for
outboards. It appears to me that most boats are rarely used and most owners
do not buy enough gas during a season to justify the extra cost of a 4
cycle. I wonder if the EPA is really doing a service given these facts.
What will be the environmental impact of engine manufactures developing,
tooling, manufacturing, and distributing - engines, parts, documentation,
sales literature, etc. compared with current outboards we are using. If
they "phase out" these engines in the future so you can not use the 2 cycle
engines they will end up in scrap heaps and land fills. I guess as long as
the liberals "feel" like we are doing a good thing we will do it. Never
mind if it makes a real difference.
These comments are not meant to make me look like a 2 cycle outboard fan. I
believe they cost the most per hour to purchase and operate than inboard or
I/O's and the only reason to buy on is to save weight in small fast boats.
Makowicki <mako...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991012213314...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
HarryKrause
>
> Hey don't get me wrong I am not an American Basher. I own 2 American cars
> with V8's and love them. If Ford, GM, or Chrysler, would use the new lost
> foam casting technology used in V4 and V6 car engines they could make great
> outboards. It is not a question of America vs. Japan, it is a question of
> technology and resources. US outboard manufactures are small compared to
> any major car manufacture.
Much of what we enjoy in engine technology today has come from the smallest
and most innovative of manufacturers. In the heyday of automotive racing,
for example, the fastest cars often were built by the smallest factories.
The best brains and talent typically are not attracted to conglomerates.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Doesn't TAKE all kinds....there just ARE all kinds.
William Thomas
and individuals. I can get lots more HP on my car engine - but the
engineering for these parts is being done by people with big bucks - not a
local
mechanic or me. Tooling costs, CAD design, and materials science has made
it very difficult for a tinkerer to make changes that are beneficial. Every
time the engines get more efficient it becomes more difficult to make them
more efficient. I believe the next big advances will be eliminating heavy
moving parts with lighter ceramics and carbon composites. If we can
eliminate most of the steel on steel friction and get rid of the some of the
mass of the moving parts we can push them much harder (per cubic inch) -
until then, we can push harder, and they will break more.
I do not think today's supercharged 2 cycles are going to last as long as
there naturally aspired counterparts. They are just working harder with
similar components. Only time will tell.
HarryKrause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3804917D...@erols.com...
Marcus G Bell
> I do not think today's supercharged 2 cycles are going to last
> as long as there naturally aspired counterparts. They are just
> working harder with similar components. Only time will tell.
Which 2-cycle outboards are supercharged?
-- -- Marcus. ( be...@mail.med.upenn.edu )
Paul Jacobsen
Marcus G Bell <be...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:7u2eed$5sl$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
None. The crankcase arrangement by be considered as an
integral super charger, but it's not external of the engine block.
The super charged two strokes that have been around for decades
include the GM Diesels. They have a 'normal' crankcase with
pressurize oiling.
The super chargers from the GM diesels are the ones you see on
hot rod cars. Just set up a drive train and go!
The induction system of a two stroke pushes the incoming charge
into the cylinders. The pressure built up in the crankcase is primary
compression, the pressure built up in the cylinder is the secondary
compression.
It's rather like a two step process and there must be valving.
The valving between the two separate compression events
has kept engineers busy for decades.
The years have determined that the favored valving for outboards is
the reed valve and the favored valving for snowmobiles is piston
skirt porting.
In the great grand scheme of things, four strokes are mechanically
complex but theoretically simple, two strokes are mechanically simple
but theoretically complex.
William Thomas
the air and fuel into the cylinder at greater than atmospheric pressure to
get more power per cubic inch of displacement - thus making the engine work
harder than the same engine that used conventional cylinder vacuum. Am I
correct that a Merc Optimax is using an air pump to deliver the air and fuel
to the cylinder under greater than atmospheric pressure? What is the boost
pressure?
Paul Jacobsen <pejac...@leagent.net> wrote in message
news:9v3N3.52$XH4...@news2.randori.com...
Marcus G Bell
> Sorry for my incorrect use of the word supercharged. I just
> meant pushing the air and fuel into the cylinder at greater than
> atmospheric pressure to get more power per cubic inch of
> displacement - thus making the engine work harder than the same
> engine that used conventional cylinder vacuum. Am I correct that
> a Merc Optimax is using an air pump to deliver the air and fuel
> to the cylinder under greater than atmospheric pressure? What is
> the boost pressure?
Your understanding of the normal meaning of "supercharged" is
correct, and you are correct that air and fuel enter the Merc
OptiMax under pressure, but the Merc OptiMax (Orbital Combustion
Process) is not supercharged. It uses conventional cylinder vacuum
to draw the bulk of the air into the engine. The air boost in the
Orbital fuel injection system is simply to assist in atomizing the
fuel, not really to push more air into the cylinder than normal
aspiration already does. The boost pressure of the air assist is
about 80 PSI, but the volume of injected air is low. You may read
more about it at http://www.orbeng.com.au .
OptiMax outboards may not be rated for as high a HP as their
carb'ed or EFI counterparts. For example, the 2.5L powerhead is
used in stock carb'ed and EFI Mercs up to 200 propshaft HP, while
the same 2.5L block is used in OptiMax DFI outboards only up to
150 HP. The air pump steals a few (about 10) HP, so the engine is
putting put a few more HP at the crank to compensate, but
nevertheless not the 200+ it would take to get 200 at the prop as
with the non-DFI versions. The 200 HP OptiMax uses a 3L powerhead.
So it's more likely that the OptiMax is understressed.
I am not aware of any current stock supercharged outboards, which
is why I asked.
William Thomas
is essentially a derated 200 (for the displacement of the motor) is the 135
even more so - Does it use the same displacement? Is the compression ratio
the same as the old block? What changes?
I am not sure where the 10 HP goes. It would seam that if you compressed a
small volume of air/gas to 80 PSI and let that volume expand back to 2.5
liters on each revolution the compressor would be very small. I will check
out the web site.
Thanks for the education,
Bill
Marcus G Bell <be...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:7u2mhj$qse$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
HarryKrause
Merc can dial about any amount of hp it wants out of the 2.5 liter block.
Currently, Optis delivering 115, 135 and 150 shp are available. The company
also has a larger block available, a 3.0 liter V-6, for the larger Optis, up
to 225 hp.
I suspect the company could have used the 2.5 liter block to build a 200 hp
Opti if it wanted to. The same block, after all, is used to build some of
Merc's 300 shp+ outboards.
BTW, remember that New York-Bermuda record set a few years ago by a pair of
Honda's on a 26-foot catamaran? The record fell:
July 26, 1999, ST. GEORGE, Bermuda - A pair of "out-of-the-box"
2000 model year Mercury 150-hp OptiMax SaltWater outboards
powered a 26-foot World Cat catamaran and its three-man crew to a
new speed and endurance record by crossing 780 statute miles (678
nautical) from New York City to Bermuda in 29 hours and 30 minutes. It
bettered the old record by 7-½ hours.
World Class Catamarans CEO Forrest Munden captained the team
which included Raytheon President and navigator Del Lippert; and
co-navigator, photographer and technician Matt Connery, aboard the
Red, White and Two, a World Cat 266 SF. The solo record run was part
of Boating Magazine's Bermuda Challenge, for outboard powered boats
of 40 feet or less.
After monitoring for a satisfactory weather window, the team left
Friday, July 16 at 8:09 a.m., Bermuda time from the North Cove Marina
at the World Trade Center in New York City, and piloted southeast
bound across the Atlantic's Gulf Stream. They were clocked in at the
Gates Fort Cut finish point near the Town Cut channel to St. George at
1:39 p.m. Saturday.
The team shattered a three year-old record of 37 hours set September
22, 1996, held by a competitor's 26-foot twin outboard powered
catamaran.
The World Cat is a twin-hulled, center console sport fisherman.
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Press any key to continue, press any other key to abort...
HarryKrause
>
> William Thomas wrote:
>
> > After doing some research I think this is EPA stuff is a waste of time for
> > outboards. It appears to me that most boats are rarely used and most owners
> > do not buy enough gas during a season to justify the extra cost of a 4
> > cycle. I wonder if the EPA is really doing a service given these facts.
>
> 100,000 miles, according to a recent article in Soundings. With the EPA 2006
> spec, they only put out as much pollution as a car does in 25,000 miles.
Gee, I don't read Soundings. Was it original research it published? It
wasn't garbage from the Bilgewater Network, I hope...What is the science
behind the article?
--
Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Every time my ship comes in, there's a dock strike!
Dana Seero
> After doing some research I think this is EPA stuff is a waste of time for
> outboards. It appears to me that most boats are rarely used and most owners
> do not buy enough gas during a season to justify the extra cost of a 4
> cycle. I wonder if the EPA is really doing a service given these facts.
A two stroke emits as much pollution in one day of use as a new car does in
100,000 miles, according to a recent article in Soundings. With the EPA 2006
spec, they only put out as much pollution as a car does in 25,000 miles. I don't
use my powerboat much, but I did go through about 200 gallons of fuel this
Summer, or about as much as I used in 2-3 months of driving my car this Summer.
It's not trivial. I own a 200 hp 2 stroke, and used to own a 235 with carbs, so
I'm not exactly a tree hugger, but it is a concern.
Paul Jacobsen
> >
> > A two stroke emits as much pollution in one day of use as a new car does
in
> > 100,000 miles, according to a recent article in Soundings. With the EPA
2006
> > spec, they only put out as much pollution as a car does in 25,000 miles.
>
> Gee, I don't read Soundings. Was it original research it published? It
> wasn't garbage from the Bilgewater Network, I hope...What is the science
> behind the article?
--
>
> Harry Krause
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Every time my ship comes in, there's a dock strike!
I'd like to see that article too, more junk science?
Del Cecchi
>
> William Thomas wrote:
>
> > After doing some research I think this is EPA stuff is a waste of time for
> > outboards. It appears to me that most boats are rarely used and most owners
> > do not buy enough gas during a season to justify the extra cost of a 4
> > cycle. I wonder if the EPA is really doing a service given these facts.
>
> 100,000 miles, according to a recent article in Soundings. With the EPA 2006
> use my powerboat much, but I did go through about 200 gallons of fuel this
> Summer, or about as much as I used in 2-3 months of driving my car this Summer.
>
> It's not trivial. I own a 200 hp 2 stroke, and used to own a 235 with carbs, so
> I'm not exactly a tree hugger, but it is a concern.
Soundings? The Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota had an article about
Outboards in their magazine? I'll have to check it out closer next
time.
Oh, you mean that other religious organization, Bluewater. never mind.
del cecchi