What is DFI? What is Oil Injection? What is Ficht?
tornado
1) Tell me about DFI. I know it's a 2-cycle engine technology, and it
stands for Direct Fuel Injection. Beside those basics, I'd like to
more details--like what does DFI do that other 2-cycle engines don't?
Is/Can this DFI technology equal/surpass 4-cycle engines in emissions?
Do any DFI 2-strokes have the 3-star CARB (California Air Resources
Board) rating? Are 2-cycle DFI engines as quiet as 4-cycle engines?
2) Oil injection... That's just a 2-cycle engine with a separate tank for
the oil?... So you don't have to manually mix the oil with the
gas--the
engine does it automatically? Is that correct? Is there more to oil
injection engines than that?
3) Finally, one of the outboard motor manufacturers has an engine
technology (I believe it's a 2-cycle engine) called "Ficht." What the
hell does "Ficht" mean? What's different about this technology?
Thanks!
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K. Smith
> Regarding outboard motors...
>
> 1) Tell me about DFI. I know it's a 2-cycle engine technology, and it
> stands for Direct Fuel Injection. Beside those basics, I'd like to
> more details
The fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber instead of being
injected into the air stream going into the engine (as with EFI like your car)
or being mixed with air by a carburetor (like the old 2 stroke OBs)
There are 3 different systems,
(a) Ficht (ex OMC & now Bombardier) is a german invention where the fuel is
subjected to an impact shock (like dropping a stone into a full bucket of
water, the resultant pressure/shock waves overflow the bucket), the pressure
waves then get directly injected through a nozzle into the combustion chamber.
(true DFI)
(b) Optimax (Merc) is an Australian invention which uses a belt driven
piston air pump to pressurise air in a second inlet manifold, into this
pressurised air is injected the correct amount of fuel, through conventional
fuel injectors. At the appropriate time an electronic air/fuel injector nozzle
is opened letting the premixed air 7 fuel flow into the combustion chamber.
(not true DFI but a hybrid we rec.boaters call it DAFI as in direct air/fuel
injection or duck)
(c) Yamaha uses a super beefed up normal type of fuel injection. A fuel
rail circulating constantly pressurised fuel with injectors electronically
controlled, opening at the right time to inject the fuel directly into the
combustion chamber. (true DFI)
> --like what does DFI do that other 2-cycle engines don't?
By being able to closely control the amount of fuel injected at low revs
they can avoid the usual fuel spillage out the exhaust that most crankcase
transferred 2 strokes suffer so can get through the new EPA marine rules.
The troubles are;
(a) Ficht; very low injection pressure (claimed 450 psi but that's
deceptive it's only maybe 450 psi for the first "wave" out of the bucket
subsequent waves are ever decreasing pressure) so resultant poor atomisation &
they deliberately run very lean mixtures at low revs to pass the EPA above..
This combination leads to piston heat buildup & then uncontrolled detonation
which led to a very high failure rate. OMC boss even admitted 1 in 5 &
eventually OMC went bankrupt over them. Bombardier have made some
modifications but they're haven't solved the lean mixture poor atomisation
combination so they will not succeed either.
(b) Optimax; still very low relative fuel injection pressure (it's the
"difference" in pressure between the fuel & air pump rails which is down
around 20 psi) but because it sits in the air rail (like an additional inlet
manifold) a while before final injection the fuel is better atomised (mixed
with air). However again to satisfy the EPA regs they too run very lean at low
revs, so in certain applications they have suffered some failures, similar
reasons but not as many as Ficht but enough that the technology now has a very
bad name. The rumours are that Merc are going to change their complete OB line
over to 4 strokes in the near future (just a rumour of course or they wouldn't
be able to have those honest dealers get rid of the optimaxes)
(c) Yamaha; much better injection pressure (up to 800 psi) so the
atomisation is better. They get through the EPA regs by also running lean at
low revs, but not as lean as the other 2, to still pass they turn cyls off at
low revs. They seem to have been relatively successful despite the high
pressures involved. Regardless it seems Yamaha are also going 4 stroke, their
small to mid HP OBs are & their latest big one are already 4 strokes. It seems
the 2 stroke OB days are numbered.
>
>
> Is/Can this DFI technology equal/surpass 4-cycle engines in emissions?
No they all spruiked some pretty silly things in the early days, the truth
was that they did stop some of the unburned fuel getting out the exhaust at
low revs, but at high revs the DFI or DAFI 2 strokes were just as dirty
burning as they ever were. The trick was OMC & Merc cajoled the EPA into
setting a very low standard, so low that even carburetored 4 strokes with
absolutely no anti pollution equip on them can romp it in.
>
> Do any DFI 2-strokes have the 3-star CARB (California Air Resources
> Board) rating?
They all claim to meet the 2006 proposed standard (incl carb) that they've
had lead time on. They used to claim all sorts of nonsense off into the future
but have now gone quiet, it was an interesting technical experiment using
consumers money & still it sent OMC to the wall. (can't be all bad;-))
> Are 2-cycle DFI engines as quiet as 4-cycle engines?
Can be, in an OB a lot depends on the type of exhaust/prop combination &
the cowling, air inlet muffling etc.
>
>
> 2) Oil injection... That's just a 2-cycle engine with a separate tank for
> the oil?... So you don't have to manually mix the oil with the
> gas--
NO
> the
> engine does it automatically? Is that correct?
YES
> Is there more to oil
> injection engines than that?
Most of the later model 2 strokes came with it but again it proved
problematic, particularly in the OMC version which was called VRO. Merc's
system had some problems also but it tended to fail "safe" as did the Yamaha
Japanese brands in general. Most people with older oil injected OBs disconnect
the auto oil injection & mix the correct oil, at the correct amount, in the
fuel tank. To properly service much less replace the oil injection systems was
rip-off pricing & together with the engines it fried was a real winner for the
dealers.
>
>
> 3) Finally, one of the outboard motor manufacturers has an engine
> technology (I believe it's a 2-cycle engine) called "Ficht." What the
> hell does "Ficht" mean?
Well around here we have a few names for what it means & they all start
with an "f" as it happens;-) Ficht was the german Co that was trying to flog
this impact pressure rise injection technology till OMC came along. Stupid
greedy OMC tried to corner the market (like Milo Minderbender & his cotton
candy) so bought control of the Co but the deal included they had to continue
to use the original Ficht name (bet the Ficht blokes wish they hadn't done
that!!)
> What's different about this technology?
It doesn't work, it doesn't work for obvious, long & well known reasons,
it doesn't work because nobody has cracked the holy grail of internal
combustion engines yet; that's how to get them to "reliably" run on lean
mixtures. Save at anything other than; very low power (idle), very light load
& high revs (light high speed cruise some car engines see) or overrun. All
situations a boat motor rarely sees.
>
>
> Thanks!
No thank you !! I enjoy bagging Ficht & now they're gone I worry what will
become of me;-)
K
Harry Krause
>
> No thank you !! I enjoy bagging Ficht & now they're gone I worry what will
> become of me;-)
>
You'll be bagged, too, for lying.
K. Smith
<hkr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
I love it!!! You are the funniest bloke on the planet. I get that from
Harry the $500,00 new lobster boat owning son of an OMC dealer ;-)
too much !!! stop it Harry, I can't breath !! ;-)
K
Harry Krause
I've not seen one post from you on the matter of modern two cycle
gasoline engines that indicates you have any direct experience
engineering, diagnosing or repairing them. Instead, all I have seen from
you is that you have a horrific grudge against boat or motor
manufacturers, especially American ones, and probably because you have
not the financial wherewithal to obtain a dealership for any makes or
models.
What exact business are you in that qualifies you by education, license
or experience to comment on these technical matters?
And, by the way, you are among the worst "writers" I've ever
encountered. Your compositions are painful to the eye and so full of
local slang and misuse of idiom they are close to incomprehensible.
You also have a foul mouth. Your choice of words on occasion reminds of
the cheap whores one encounters while passing through certain bad
neighborhoods.
Finally, your "boat," and I use that word loosely, presents as a refugee
from a marina fire, with a rusty piece of crap homemade outboard welded
to its stern.
K. Smith
<hkr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Dear dear dear, the silly old non boating socialist gets upset again;-)
Unlike you I at least try to help & I even get thanked occassionally so
even if you disagree I'll continue.
I do critcise the bad consumer testing that OMC & Merc did with DFI &
DAFI yes but it's got nothing to do with where they come from, if you
bothered to read you'd see Ficht is German & Opti Australian.
Just so you can check google I predicted against the swarm of OMC
spruiking dealers that the new engines were in trouble, because they had
poor atomisation & were trying to run lean. Of course you can also check
all the vile abuse I copped from you when checking google groups, start
in late 97 early 98 that's when I told you they would fail & even
explained exactly why.
I know you live in a world where you feel protected by your style of
having everybody in & then constrained by a labelled box, I guess for the
low IQ simpletons like you it's nice & safe, but alas we're different
here.
As for your language comments I assume you get upset by me using naughty
words like turd?? You're a joke !! got me laughing again, thanks;-) sorry
Harry this is the real world out here, we swear & often. You boatless old
hypocritical school teacher, dealer's son fella, I can assure you if my
words upset you now, it's good I don't say what should & would be said of
you here.
I assume you'll refrain from calling people feces (faeces) brains etc in
the future.
Best regards,
K
Harry Krause
> I know you live in a world where you feel protected by your style of
> having everybody in & then constrained by a labelled box, I guess for the
> low IQ simpletons like you it's nice & safe, but alas we're different
> here.
I suspect my scores on standardized, recognized IQ tests are higher than
yours, sweetiepie. I was a child development test dummy for the Gessell
Institute from the 2nd grade through the 12th grade, and, at that time,
probably "experienced" every such test available in English. For grins,
a couple of years ago a doctor of psychology we know, a fellow who
administers tests for a living, gave me a battery of IQ tests in
English, American English and "translated into English" from around the
world. He administered one test every few weeks, whenever we met. I did
very well. Of course, I didn't take a test written in Australian street
slang, your first language... In standard, "generally accepted" numbers,
my IQ comes in above 155.
Perhaps you'd prefer an examination of English language skills...
> As for your language comments I assume you get upset by me using naughty
> words like turd?? You're a joke
You use far worse language than turd. You "sound" like a cheap street
whore.
!
> I assume you'll refrain from calling people feces (faeces) brains etc in
> the future.
Feces is not a naughty word.
Keith T
wrote:
I have a Kawasaki Jetski with the Ficht system and after 60 hours, not
a single problem.
Keith T
K. Smith
<ktri...@mindspring.com> wrote:
And I hope you never ever have a problem, trouble is a significant
minority of users did, yes 1 in 5 as admitted by OMC, is a minority till
you're in that minority then suddenly you don't care about statistics.
Are you sure it's "ficht"?
K
Harry Krause
Foul-mouthed Karen will visit your jetski and pour sugar in its gas tank.
HLAviation
>a single problem.
>
WOW! 60 whole hours! That ought to prove to all those anti Ficht people out
there that the system lasts over the long haul.
< I'm sorry, it's late my arm hurts like a bitch and I can't get to sleep. I
really have no opinion or cause for opinion on the issue as I can't see myself
buying anything using that type of technology in the near future. How long
does it take to put 60 hrs on a jetski? Lately I put 60+ hrs on engines every
time I start them.>
http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/
Paul Schilter
Well if you're putting 60 hours on your engine every time you start it,
and if this is a Jetski (which I know it isn't), no wonder your arm hurts.
;-)
Paul
"HLAviation" <hlavi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020601041526...@mb-fj.aol.com...
-rick-
>K. Smith wrote:
>> No thank you !! I enjoy bagging Ficht & now they're gone I
worry what will
>> become of me;-)
>>
>You'll be bagged, too, for lying.
So why don't you point out her factual errors?
-rick-
Harry Krause wrote in message <3CF82BC7...@mindspring.com>...
>... In standard, "generally accepted" numbers,
>my IQ comes in above 155.
Then you should recognize that your "arguments" are orthogonal to her
points. If you have substantial knowledge why not share it in a
meaningful way?
Wayne "Ratbo" Canino
about the verbage. :)
-W
"Harry Krause" <hkr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3CF816D8...@mindspring.com...
MD
articles from god only knows where written by people of authority, who are
experts based on again on god only knows what.
Keeping that in mind let me capsulate my FICHT experiences.
My first engine was a 1998 Evinrude 150 FICHT. I blew two powerheads in 14
months and they were quickly replaced. After the second one I sued the OMC,
my dealer and the subsidiary company of OMC that made my boat (SeaSwirl).
They quickly asked to sit down, and to make a long story short, there were
factors beyond the engine that may have caused or at least been attributed
to the failures. It is very possible that my boat was very underpowered to
begin with. I do know that I have mentioned the combination of my boat with
a single 150 to several dealers since and they all have said they would
never have rigged that boat that way.
At the expense of OMC they re-rigged my 24' Sea Swirl for twins and added a
1999 counter rotating 150 FICHT. They then upgraded both engines to RAM AIR
and made them current to their then current product line of 2000.
I have put about 1400 hours on them since then and they run fine. I don't
get to fish often anymore, but when I do its usually pretty intense. Last
time I went out we ran from one side of the sea of Cortez to the other,
fishing up down both coastlines for 5 days.
I cant comment on fuel consumption, I have never had carbureted twins. I run
both of them when slow speed trolling and when backing down on fish. They
have been in for normal service and I have had no surprises. They only
problem I have had was a worn out fuel line, probably from heat as I store
it covered but outside, its currently 103 degrees.
I know lots of folks hate these engines. I know OMC went bankrupt. I also
know mine seem to work. Maybe I am living on the edge, but then I used to
own a BMW 318i and it left me on the side of the road often.
Mike
"tornado" <tor...@terracom.net> wrote in message
news:sZAJ8.12922$fH5.13...@kent.svc.tds.net...
Wayne "Ratbo" Canino
The FICHT's blew up and they made them good and bent over backwards to make
the customer happy. A lot of early FICHTs died under heavy use. Ditto Opti's
(only Merc wasn't as gracious). I'm now of the feeling that DFI is finally
growing up and might actually be a safe bet in another year or two.... When
we see 25 year old DFI's running around - I'll be less suspicious of them.
-W
"MD" <mdo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:908K8.47851$oh.18...@news1.west.cox.net...
tomthorp
The new "Environmentally Friendly" Outboards
Related Resources
• Engine Manufacturers
From Other Guides
• OMC Declares Bankruptcy
Environmentally Friendly Outboards
With the increase in environmental pollution and in a quest to reduce
harmful emissions, the various environmental agencies have been coming
out with stricter regulations on an ongoing basis.
One of the first targets, for powerboaters, is the good old 2 stroke
outboard. For years these reliable, relatively simple workhorses of
the waterways have soldiered on largely unchanged. Sure, they have
been refined, look more modern, and have updated ignition and fuel
systems, but they still burn oil, create clouds of smoke when started,
and pollute. That is going to change. With new regulations, outboard
manufacturers are being forced to find new ways of producing the same
horsepower with less pollution.
There are other benefits to this new technology, in addition to the
reduced emissions. Some of these benefits can include better fuel
economy, quieter engines, and reduced operating costs.
"Green" Outboards
What are some of the approaches that the manufacturers are taking to
make their outboards more environmentally friendly?
The current crop of 2 stroke outboards are better than their
predecessors from even ten years ago, thanks to better fuel
management, improved ignition systems, and oil injection. There is,
however, a limit to what can realistically be done to reduce the
emissions of the "traditional" 2-stroke engine. The next step, from
most of the manufacturers, is some form of "direct injection"
technology for a 2-stroke, as well as a selection of 4-stroke
outboards.
2-Stroke vs. 4-Stroke
Which is better? That depends on what you need the outboard to do.
4-strokes are generally quieter, smoother running, lower maintenance
and lower polluters than even direct injected 2-strokes. They are also
(usually) heavier with poorer acceleration.
In response to the requirements of some powerboaters, specifically
boaters looking for speed, many of the manufacturers are offering
direct injected 2-stroke outboards in larger horsepower outputs in
addition to 4 stroke outboards in the smaller categories.
The 4-stroke engine produces lower emissions than a 2-stroke for a
number of reasons. They don't burn oil, and they have far better
control of the air and fuel flow than a 2-stroke. The new direct
injected 2-strokes, however, have reduced this gap by providing
precise control of fuel and oil consumption, reducing emissions by up
to 80% over conventional 2-strokes. Fuel consumption can also be
reduced by up to 33% combined with a 50% reduction in oil consumption,
all while retaining the power of a 2-stroke that boaters are
expecting. Emission reduction aside, these improvements can add up to
significant reductions in operating costs.
Direct Injection - What is it?
Simply stated, direct injection involves injecting a precise amount of
fuel into the combustion chamber, in contrast to having
"approximately" the correct amount of fuel being drawn in along with
the air flow. Also, with direct injection, the fuel is better atomized
than with standard 2-strokes, resulting in a cleaner, more complete
burning of the fuel.
The major outboard manufacturers seem to be taking a variation of 2
different approaches to direct injection, as outlined below.
High Pressure Injection
FICHT Ram Injection - OMC (Evinrude and Johnson)
This system involves the fuel being inject into the cylinder by means
of a mechanical "plunger", at a pressure of up to 500psi. The
published results of this system (on OMC's website) promise up to an
80% reduction in emissions over conventional 2-strokes. OMC offers
this system on V4 outboards from 75hp to 115hp, and on V6 outboards
from 135hp to 250hp.
HPDI - Yamaha
High Pressure Direct Injection (HPDI) involves the use of a very high
pressure (700psi) fuel pump that injects the fuel directly into the
cylinders. This sytem is offered on a range of Yamaha outboards from
150hp to 200hp.
Low Pressure Injection
Optimax - Mercury
The Mercury Optimax system uses a 2 stage direct injection system,
where fuel is first staged in a small chamber outside of the actual
combustion chamber, and then forced into the combustion chamber by an
80psi burst of air. This system is available on a range of outboards
from 135hp to 225hp.
TLDI (Nissan/Tohatsu)
The Nissan/Tohatsu TLDI (Two stroke, Low pressure, Direct Injection)
system also utilizes a low pressure system for injecting the fuel into
the combustion chamber. This is available in 50hp and 90hp models.
Which system is best? Time will tell, but if you believe what each of
the manufacturers claim on their websites, you'll be thoroughly
confused. Predictably, each has reasons why their system is better.
The best advice I can give? Talk to owners of the outboards you are
considering, and find out if they are happy with them.
4-Stroke Outboard Manufacturers
Most of the major manufacturers offer a variety of 4-stroke outboards.
The leader for years of course has been Honda, with their entire model
line consisting of 4-strokes from 2hp to 130hp. Mercury offers
4-strokes in a range from 4hp to 115hp. OMC (now owned by Bombardier)
has 4-strokes under both the Johnson and Evinrude brands ranging from
5hp to 70hp. Nissan and Tohatsu have smaller 4-strokes only from 4hp
to 18hp. Yamaha has an extensive line of 4-strokes, ranging from 8hp
to 115hp. Suzuki has a similar range with 4 strokes from 9.9hp to 115
hp.
If you are looking for a new outboard, be sure to consider one of the
newer, environmentally friendly models. There are a number advantages
- in addition to lower emissions.
Copyright © 2001 Rainer Halonen. All rights reserved.
"tornado" <tor...@terracom.net> wrote in message news:<sZAJ8.12922$fH5.13...@kent.svc.tds.net>...
tomthorp
http://www.google.com/search?q=2+stroke+direct+injection&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&start=0&sa=N
John Herring
Most informative. Thank you for the effort you put into this response!
Keith T
>>
>
>WOW! 60 whole hours! That ought to prove to all those anti Ficht people out
>there that the system lasts over the long haul.
You've obviously haven't ridden a jetski have you?
Keith T
tomthorp
John Herring <jherrin...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message news:<irnkfuctpkbn5n3op...@4ax.com>...
tomthorp
Orbital engine. Take a look:New Orbital Engine Website
http://www.orbeng.com/orbital/home/home.htm
John Herring <jherrin...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message news:<irnkfuctpkbn5n3op...@4ax.com>...
tomthorp
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oec2/messages/?expand=1
For serious discussion of OCP and other DI systems. We have many
experts in the field in our club.
Have a nice day, Tom
John Herring <jherrin...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message news:<irnkfuctpkbn5n3op...@4ax.com>...
del cecchi
"K. Smith" <ksm...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:ad98pb$uqpo5$1...@ID-133999.news.dfncis.de...
Karen, I'll send you the editorial out of Bass and Walleye Boats, soon
as I get to scanning it. Supposedly Bombadier is even going to use
ficht injector for medical applications because it is so precise. :-)
And they claim to have no intent of selling 4stroke bigger than about 70
HP.
del
Larry W4CSC
>
>2-Stroke vs. 4-Stroke
>Which is better? That depends on what you need the outboard to do.
>4-strokes are generally quieter, smoother running, lower maintenance
>and lower polluters than even direct injected 2-strokes. They are also
>(usually) heavier with poorer acceleration.
I've often wondered about that last sentence. Have you ever notice
that not ONE race car or drag racer ever had a 2-stroke engine in it?
There used to be 2-stroke motorcycles on the racing circuit. Are they
still racing 2-strokes professionally in motorcycles? Another
interesting point where weight is VERY important is airplanes. Why
aren't there 2-stroke Cessnas?? Outside of trying to produce
short-lived, cheap-to-make powerplants to sell to the sucker
consumers....NOONE is using the 2-stroke gas engine. (Yeah, I know
the DD diesels are two strokes, but they are way different than
outboard/weedeater/lawnmower/jetski 2-strokes.)
>
>In response to the requirements of some powerboaters, specifically
>boaters looking for speed, many of the manufacturers are offering
>direct injected 2-stroke outboards in larger horsepower outputs in
>addition to 4 stroke outboards in the smaller categories.
>
>The 4-stroke engine produces lower emissions than a 2-stroke for a
>number of reasons. They don't burn oil, and they have far better
>control of the air and fuel flow than a 2-stroke. The new direct
>injected 2-strokes, however, have reduced this gap by providing
>precise control of fuel and oil consumption, reducing emissions by up
>to 80% over conventional 2-strokes. Fuel consumption can also be
>reduced by up to 33% combined with a 50% reduction in oil consumption,
>all while retaining the power of a 2-stroke that boaters are
>expecting. Emission reduction aside, these improvements can add up to
>significant reductions in operating costs.
Direct injected 2-stroke engines don't HAVE to burn oil. The Detroit
Diesel 6-71 is a 2-stroke. It doesn't pump air and oil through the
crankcase. It has a blower to clear out the dead charge. DFI
2-strokes could be designed with lube oil systems used on 4-strokes
and scavenged by a blower on the air intake ports, like the DD's.....
Of course, that would cost money and reduce the GREAT profits
2-strokes produce.
>
>Direct Injection - What is it?
>Simply stated, direct injection involves injecting a precise amount of
>fuel into the combustion chamber, in contrast to having
>"approximately" the correct amount of fuel being drawn in along with
>the air flow. Also, with direct injection, the fuel is better atomized
>than with standard 2-strokes, resulting in a cleaner, more complete
>burning of the fuel.
Huh?? Atomized? DFI's have terrible atomization problems. The
injection happens nearly during the firing pulse. It hardly has time
to atomize, which is what's burning holes in pistons and torching the
tips of the spark plugs. Pouring fuel/air into the crankcase of a hot
engine, then leaving it there boiling away until the transfer port
opens again, gives it plenty of time to "atomize" to a gas....
>
This guy's article, as with most "evaluation" type articles in
advertiser-supported boat mags, looks more like a sales
brochure....never a discouraging word. If he were being truthful,
he'd have told them how much the Ficht sucks....(c;
Larry
Dae
The new Yamaha 250hp HPDI will use a 3.3L block with 1000psi. If anyone
wants to see pictures of the new Yamaha, follow this link.
http://thehulltruth.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=382602711&f=436600231&m=488602281&p=2
- Dae
"K. Smith" wrote:
>
<snip>
> (c) Yamaha; much better injection pressure (up to 800 psi) so the
> atomisation is better.
<snip>
>
> K
>
K. Smith
Thanks Del, that's kind of you.
I do wonder how they think they're going to sell Ficht again, unless
they intend to just blitz everyone on price. I mean they bought the OMC
carcass for very little so don't have any huge costs to amortise & the
Ficht way on an almost conventional old 2 stroke OB must be cheap to
manufacture etc.
Thanks again,
K
K. Smith
I think it's the DFI, DAFI fan club Larry, they do exist!! A load ot
regurgitated marketing spruik for dreamers to choke on.
K
HLAviation
>
I had a Jetski when all there was were the 440 Jetskis. Heck, I even rode one
from Newport Beach to Avalon and back.
http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/
HLAviation
>still racing 2-strokes professionally in motorcycles?
Sure, GP and Motocross.
>Why
>aren't there 2-stroke Cessnas??
Because the gear reduction involved to bring the RPM down to prop speeds is
expensive and negates the weight savings.
Rotax 2 strokes are used in the ultralight sector using belt reductions.
http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/
K. Smith
> >There used to be 2-stroke motorcycles on the racing circuit. Are they
> >still racing 2-strokes professionally in motorcycles?
>
> Sure, GP and Motocross.
Sorry HP the GP bike just went 4 stroke this year & they're blitzing the 2
strokes. Trouble is Honda are keeping them for their own teams this year, the
others won't get them till next season.
>
> >Why
> >aren't there 2-stroke Cessnas??
>
> Because the gear reduction involved to bring the RPM down to prop speeds is
> expensive and negates the weight savings.
> Rotax 2 strokes are used in the ultralight sector using belt reductions.
But the only engines rotax can get certified as proper aero engines are
their 4 strokes.
K
-rick-
del cecchi wrote...
>Supposedly Bombadier is even going to use
>ficht injector for medical applications because it is so precise.
:-)
enema's?
HLAviation
>their 4 strokes.
Not really, it's the only engine they've applied for. Certification is an
expensive process and there is no certified plane that runs on that low of a
horsepower so it would be a complete waste of a lot of money to certify it with
no market.
http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/
Billgran
>
> Karen, I'll send you the editorial out of Bass and Walleye Boats, soon
> as I get to scanning it. Supposedly Bombadier is even going to use
> ficht injector for medical applications because it is so precise. :-)
> And they claim to have no intent of selling 4stroke bigger than about 70
> HP.
Hi Del,
Be sure to scan her the FICHT 225HO test, also.
For 2003, Bombardier will have 4-strokes from 4 to 140hp, 2-strokes from 3.5
to 175hp, and Evinrude FICHTS from 75 thru 250hp.
Bill Grannis
service manager
modervador
> [snip] Have you ever notice
> that not ONE race car or drag racer ever had a 2-stroke engine in it?
Midget cars in the 1940s and 1950s used outboard engines all the time.
It seems that the racing field either adapts a currently produced
engine in the required size, or it "breaks in" a new engine design
about to be produced. I'd be interested to know of how many engines
have been R&D'd, tooled, and made specifically for racing which
haven't been used in production vehicles, as it would be an awful
expense if some of that $$$ wasn't amortized on production units. So
if it can't be sold to Joe Consumer, doubtful the racers will get it
either.
> [snip] Another
> interesting point where weight is VERY important is airplanes. Why
> aren't there 2-stroke Cessnas??
Mean time between overhaul, fuel economy (i.e. weight of the fuel)
favored the 4 stroke.
> Direct injected 2-stroke engines don't HAVE to burn oil. The Detroit
> Diesel 6-71 is a 2-stroke. It doesn't pump air and oil through the
> crankcase. It has a blower to clear out the dead charge.
If it pumped its intake air and oil through the crankcase, it would
burn that oil during the compression stroke.
> DFI
> 2-strokes could be designed with lube oil systems used on 4-strokes
> and scavenged by a blower on the air intake ports, like the DD's.....
And then they would be bigger than a 4 stroke.
-mod.
K. Smith
Surely you don't think this is good Bill?? I mean this must the scariest
banana news for you OMC/Bomb. dealers.
Nothing Bomb. have released so far addressed the real issues, too lean at
too much power, poor atomisation from too low an injection pressure (the new
nozzle is fluff, like resetting the garden hose nozzle), the oiling is still a
risky design at best (the hole in the skirt is again just fluff, catch up on
the patents)
I know we'll never agree on this but again just as with your faith in the
99 model "improvements" & your tireless efforts to spruik Ficht here, we'll
wait & see.
As for selling them to the good ol' boys again ?? good luck, you'll need a
hide as thick as mine ;-)
K
K. Smith
Hmmm good comment OK.
K
Billgran
>
> Nothing Bomb. have released so far addressed the real issues, too lean
at
> too much power, poor atomisation from too low an injection pressure (the
new
> nozzle is fluff, like resetting the garden hose nozzle), the oiling is
still a
> risky design at best (the hole in the skirt is again just fluff, catch up
on
> the patents)
>
Well, you are still like a broken record, I see.
The 2002 Evinrude FICHTS have been "bullet proof", haven't had a single
warranty claim since they were introduced last Oct. The law enforcement and
commercial fisherman are still running a bunch of the '99, '00, and 01
models in the 200-225-250 range. Most are near or over 1000 hours. The
highest time is 1800 and I've heard stories of over 3000 hours.
The new diagnostic software allows richening and leaning the injectors at
any speed. Richening things up makes the motors run terrible, as does
leaning them out. I guess they ain't too lean to start with.
Hole in the skirt oiling is only on the 60 degree block, not on the big
engines.
Bill Granns
service manager
del cecchi
"Billgran" <bill...@n-jcenter.com> wrote in message
news:ufml8o3...@corp.supernews.com...
4 stroke shootout too. And the news of your award. :-)
Have to take it easy, but I will send out a reasonable number of copies
of the editorial, and maybe others, upon request.
del
Harry Krause
Saw a couple of Gradys this past weekend sporting twin Yamaha V6 four
strokes, one tied up at a gas dock and the other idling around the
Herrington Harbor marina. Both boats looked a little low in the stern to
me. The one that was running was pretty quiet.
Del Cecchi
Will do. It wasn't the kindest evaluation I have ever seen. Bog in the midrange
and low on HP.
--
Del Cecchi
cec...@us.ibm.com
Personal Opinions Only
Tim
- show quoted text -
And, by the way, you are among the worst "writers" I've ever
encountered. Your compositions are painful to the eye and so full of
local slang and misuse of idiom they are close to incomprehensible.
You also have a foul mouth. Your choice of words on occasion reminds of
the cheap whores one encounters while passing through certain bad
neighborhoods.
Keyser Soze
Tim
You’re the one who seems to know a lot about whores