What anchor should I buy?
Ree-Yees
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=45253&hvarTarget=se
arch&cmCat=SearchResults
Mine is probably 15 pounds. When I anchor in 15-20 feet of water the boat
will slowly still move away. After about 30 minutes I will have moved 15-20
yards back out into the lake.
What style of anchor do I need for a 19 foot sea ray?
--C
Chris Newport
15 pounds is a paperweight, only suitable for a rowboat.
OTOH, you may not have a problem, in 20 feet of water you should have
paid out 80 feet of chain (NOT rope) so 15 yards of movement does not
necessarily mean that the anchor has moved if there is a strong current.
--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.
Charles T. Low
doesn't look like anything any serious boater I know uses for conventional
anchoring.
From the library, get a Chapmans or other boating text and read the
anchoring section. There's a lot of "technique" as well as "hardware" to
consider. There are fluke-style anchors (e.g. Danforth, Fortress),
plow-style anchors (e.g. CQR), and Bruce anchors (and facsimiles). And a few
other more specialized types. The technique of "setting" an anchor is a
little different than that of getting it "hold" once it's set.
Using chain? How much? Attached to what kind of line, and how much? How much
do you pay out? What's the bottom like?
Congratulations for keeping a good anchor watch! You're ahead of the curve
by just doing that.
====
Charles T. Low
ctl...@boatUNdocking.com - remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat
====
"Ree-Yees" <ree-...@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:wFtpc.15775$4%5.3...@fe30.usenetserver.com...
Jay
Here's a picture: http://www.woods-group.co.uk/mooring/danforth_anchor.jpg
Should run you about 100 bucks... we use one on a river with moderate
current, and similar depth, and it never moves...
-j
"Ree-Yees" <ree-...@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:wFtpc.15775$4%5.3...@fe30.usenetserver.com...
IBNFSHN
it, you wouldn't even need an anchor at the end of it.
--
Bill
Chesapeake, Va
"Chris Newport" <m...@see-my-sig.invalid> wrote in message
news:1230651.ZhFhDyEEMr@callisto...
JAXAshby
>OTOH, you may not have a problem, in 20 feet of water you should have
>paid out 80 feet of chain (NOT rope) so 15 yards of movement does not
>necessarily mean that the anchor has moved if there is a strong current.
>
even in a Midwest prarrie lake?
nah, *then* a a 15# anchor is what you want.
JAXAshby
>paid out 80 feet of chain
on a Sea-Ray 19 footer?
nah.
JAXAshby
muddy rivers and lakes on boats just stopped to do a little fishing.
Don't let anyone talk you into some anchor/chain/12 to 1 scope monstrosity
better suited to anchoring on a coral reef.
what you have preferred for the waters that boat used in prior, and probably
the waters you intend to use the boat in now.
Ree-Yees
The people before me said they only used the anchor twice, so I would assume
they just had it for the heck of it. However, me and my family like to
anchor down for an hour to do some fishing or swimming.
I have been looking up some anchoring information and it appears that I have
been going about it all wrong and with this garbage anchor. All the other
boats that I see anchored are just dropping them over the side to the bottom
and ting it up. So that is what I have done.
I realize now that I am supposed to be giving it a bit of slack to make like
a 45 degree angle with my anchor! That danforth anchor looks pretty cool. I
have seen some like that for about $30 at bass pro so I might test one of
those out too.
There sure is alot to learn about boats. Sure sucks some money away too!
Thanks guys,
--C
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040515182806...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Jeff Morris
news:1230651.ZhFhDyEEMr@callisto...
> >
>
> 15 pounds is a paperweight, only suitable for a rowboat.
> OTOH, you may not have a problem, in 20 feet of water you should have
> paid out 80 feet of chain (NOT rope) so 15 yards of movement does not
> necessarily mean that the anchor has moved if there is a strong current.
>
Total, complete nonsense. There are a number of 15 pound anchors that are
perfectly fine for a small boat, even overkill. I've anchored many times with
a small Fortress; may current second anchor is a FX23, which is only 15 pounds.
Although I'm not a fan of Danforth style anchors as the only anchor in high risk
situations (current reversing in the middle of the night near a rocky shore) in
a muddy lake this would be a very secure anchor.
And contrary to some claims, all chain is usually a waste, often counter
productive. For a small boat in protected waters, the minimum chain, perhaps 8
feet, is best. On my last boat I had a small Fortress for a lunch hook, and
tried to use it with no chain, but it was hard to get it to the bottom if there
was a current.
The problem with the OP's anchor is that its designed for fishing off a small
boat, where long term holding is not even desirable.
Wayne.B
<ctl...@boatUNdocking.com> wrote:
>I'm not sure what that kind of anchor is for. Maybe for "mooring," but it
>doesn't look like anything any serious boater I know uses for conventional
>anchoring.
===============================
It's a modified mushroom anchor. They've been around for years and
are perfectly suitable for anchoing small boats in soft bottoms and
protected conditions.
For a 19 foot boat I'd recommend something like a 9 pound Danforth
anchor with 6 feet of 1/4 chain and a 3/8ths nylon rode. As long as
the anchor is well set , and you let out sufficient scope, you could
ride out almost anything with that combination.
Wayne.B
<ree-...@allaroundit.com> wrote:
>That danforth anchor looks pretty cool. I
>have seen some like that for about $30 at bass pro so I might test one of
>those out too.
======================================
Danforths make a very good all around anchor for soft or sandy
bottoms.
Charles T. Low
called using a "lunch hook." In other words, you're not expecting heavy
conditions, you're not staying very long, and most importantly you have your
bearings under constant observation so that you can take corrective action
immediately if the anchor starts to drag.
You may be able to get away with a fairly casual setup for such a lunch
hook. For more serious anchoring, boaters know that anchors work best when
the pull on them is nearly horizontal, which is why the standard advice is
to use a scope of 1:7. If the depth is 3 metres (from the bottom to the
__bow chocks__!) then you let out 21 metres of "rode" (of whatever
material).
However, in crowded inland non-tidal anchorages with a calm forecast, 21
metres of rode gives you a swinging circle of 42 metres, so that's often not
practical. I often sleep overnight with a 4:1 rode, for example, and will
lunch at 3:1 or 2:1.
Using chain on the end of your line helps. Most consider it essential (for
more than "lunching"). It won't abrade through if it chafes on a rock, it
adds weight down near the anchor to help keep the pull closer to horizontal.
I have worried several times if my anchor was properly set in weeds, in a
light wind gusting up to 10 knots, and so snorkelled down to find the chain
not even pulled taut. I was, in fact, holding just on the weight of the
chain. (And I saw a big cruiser drag onto the rocks last year when the wind
freshened and the weight of the chain alone could no longer hold him! His
anchor obviously wasn't well set - mine was!) One rule of thumb is a length
of chain equal to your boat length.
There is some disagreement about whether the standard "7:1" is for an
all-rope rode, or whether using chain reduces it. (I think not.) But the
main thing is: lots of rode in heavy conditions. I exceeded 7:1 when a
gale-force squall line blew through one day, and didn't begrudge one
centimetre of the extra rode I let out.
Then there's the choice of type of anchor, but you can see how much more
there is to it than hardware. I've barely started...
====
Charles T. Low
ctl...@boatUNdocking.com - remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat
====
"Ree-Yees" <ree-...@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:Rjxpc.6667$uK...@fe09.usenetserver.com...
JAXAshby
>bottoms.
danforths are not normally used in rivers and lakes because rivers and lakes
often have tree stumps, sunken logs and/or other things on which the danforth
points will catch and not come loose. that is why the mushroom anchor is so
popular, and why the anchor found on the boat in question has the soft points.
JAXAshby
spitting back everything you ever read about anchoring in a seaway ancitipating
heavy weather. kindly knock it off. if the guy wants to read the high seas
anchoring reports, he can do it himself.
in the meantime, the guy has the PREFERRED anchor for where he has his boat.
many boaters in those waters use a 15# or 20# _mushroom_ anchor because the
mushroom is even less likely to catch junk on the lake bottom.
JAXAshby
>the anchor is well set , and you let out sufficient scope, you could
>ride out almost anything with that combination.
"ride out almost anything" is NOT what one does in a 19 foot Sea-Ray on a lake.
No need to, and can be rather dangerous if one tried to. Lakes can get real
choppy in rough weather.
Greg O
"Ree-Yees" <ree-...@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:Rjxpc.6667$uK...@fe09.usenetserver.com...
> >
like
> a 45 degree angle with my anchor! That danforth anchor looks pretty cool.
I
> have seen some like that for about $30 at bass pro so I might test one of
> those out too.
>
>
I would be tempted to try a few feet of chain with the achor you have. The
chain will change the abgle of the "bite" on the anchor. Unless you are
looking for an anchor o hold you in place through anything!
I use a anchor simular to a danforth. I am a fair weather boaters so it
works good enough for me, although the boat will drag it some.
Greg
Peggie Hall
> Im anchoring in J Percy Priest lake in tennesse, it is a muddy lake.
Then a Danforth would be the right anchor.
> The people before me said they only used the anchor twice, so I would assume
> they just had it for the heck of it. However, me and my family like to
> anchor down for an hour to do some fishing or swimming.
In even the lightest breeze or slightest current, the river anchor you
have is likely to drag.
>
> I have been looking up some anchoring information and it appears that I have
> been going about it all wrong and with this garbage anchor.
I wouldn't call it a "garbage anchor"...it has a specific purpose. I
just wouldn't even leave the boat unattended/no one aboard with only
that anchor down.
> I realize now that I am supposed to be giving it a bit of slack to make like
> a 45 degree angle with my anchor!
There's a bit more to it than that. The minimum scope (length of anchor
line) should be at least 3x the water's depth...so in 15' of water,
you'd need to put out at least 45' of anchor line. In windy conditions
or in a strong current (which you might have to do if you have engine
trouble to keep from going aground till help arrives), the scope has to
be increase to as much as 7x the water's depth to make sure the anchor
holds. This "rule" applies regardless of the size of the boat,
btw...boat size/weight only matters when selecting the right size/weight
anchor...there are charts in most of the marine catalogs that show the
type and size anchor needed.
No one has mentioned anchor line... Do not use polypropylene "ski rope"
as an anchor line. Anchor line should be 1/2" 3-strand nylon, at least
100'...150' would be even better. It should be attached to the anchor
using a thimble and a shackle that swivles, not just tied to it with
knot. I'd also put 4-5' of heavy anchor chain between the anchor and the
line, to help weight the anchor down...anchors can only hold when
they're lying flat--which is the reason for 3-7 x the water's depth.
> There sure is alot to learn about boats.
Yep...and we've even barely even scratched the surface on what you need
to know about anchoring. I strongly recommend that you take a CC Aux or
US Power Squadron boating safety class. 'Cuz even a lake can be a very
dangerous place if you don't know what you're doing.
> "JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>that is an anchor for muddy rivers and lakes. It is the PREFERRED anchor
>> for
>>muddy rivers and lakes on boats just stopped to do a little fishing.
I disagree, Jax...and I was ON an inland lake for 20+ years. I had a 10
lb river anchor that kept through several boats from 24' to 36'...I
mostly used it off the stern to keep it from swinging when anchored just
off a beach...I wouldn't use one as my only anchor while everyone is the
water swimming, only while someone is aboard.
>>Don't let anyone talk you into some anchor/chain/12 to 1 scope monstrosity
>>better suited to anchoring on a coral reef.
Oooh...you're gonna draw fire with that choice of words! :)
What he needs is the right anchor and line for his boat and conditions.
It's not whether he's in the ocean or a lake that determine that...it's
the size/weight of the boat and the type of bottom--sand, mud, rock.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=&page=1
JAXAshby
twice agains, as iss shows below:
>>danforths are not normally used in rivers
>
>===================================
>
>Jax, I'd almosr forgotten about your river experience. Tell us once
>again how you recommended to some poor schnook on this news group that
>he navigate the Genesee River between the NYS Barge Canal (AKA, Erie),
>and Lake Ontario.
>
>See the link below for a good picture of the route Jax proposed:
>
>http://www.geneseeriverrestaurant.com/images/dam.jpg
>
>If we look at that picture under sufficient magnification we might be
>able to see Jax just above the dam in his Porta Bote, about to soil
>his knickers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Calif Bill
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=45258&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults
The 10# would be good for your boat. Put 8-10' of 1/4" to 5/16" galvanized
chain between the anchor and 3/8" anchor line / rope. Use no less than 3/8"
line as anything smaller hurts your hands as you pull the anchor. Get
anchor line, not poly rope as does not float, and is easier to deal with.
Costs maybe $20 for 100' of line. I keep a second 100' line in the boat, if
I need more, but I also anchor in deep, fast rivers. I have one to the
mushroom anchors, and it does not hold very well. I use it on my Anchor
Buddy line, as it rarely gets stuck, but will hold for the purpose of
keeping the back of the boat off the beach.
Bill
JAXAshby
>chain between the anchor and 3/8" anchor line / rope.
in all my years in and around boats on Midwest lakes, I never saw, nor ever
heard of, using chain on an anchor. Not once. You tie the rope to the
mushroom and drop it overboard.
Dan Krueger
think it's so big they need to have chain AND big boats. I haven't Googled it
yet, but it sounds REALLY big!
There are, of course, 'littler' lakes - like Lake Winnebago. Those lakes don't
need big boats or chain, right?
I don't travel in lakes anymore, but your expertise would be invaluable to those
who do. Please let them know before it's too late!
Dan
Wayne.B
<dankr...@xxxmindspring.com> wrote:
>There are, of course, 'littler' lakes - like Lake Winnebago. Those lakes don't
>need big boats or chain, right?
=====================================
Jax got his experience on Lake Windy Bagel, much smaller than
Winnebago.
Wayne.B
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>Rope. In all of his millennia handling boats, he uses rope.
==================================
And if you give him enough of it....
Ookie Wonderslug
I have a 4 pound danforth anchor for my little boat. Got it at Walmart
for $11 on clearance. I can't use chain. My anchor is on the front
and I sit on the back. I have the rope rigged through a pulley so I
can lower it and raise it from the back. Chain would not go through
the pulley and the anchor must be all the way to the pulley or it will
be in the water and hit the boat. I use an extension cord reel to keep
the rope from getting tangled. Works really well.
In rocky waters, it can catch and be nearly impossible to raise. But
it holds in swift current at the dam's base which is what I want. In
muddy or sandy waters I have to "set" it. Which means I drop anchor
and then back up laying out line, When I have enough line out I secure
the anchor and continue backing until it catches and the boat stops.
Never drift an inch that way. Sometimes takes a few tries to get it to
catch though.
I have a 10 pound mushroom anchor that I keep at the stern. I use it
to keep the boat from moving around in circles and tangling my fishing
lines. The 4 pound danforth holds much better than the 10 pound
mushroom in every situation except soft mud. It sinks down and holds
tight.
But my experience comes from using a 14ft fiberglass semi-v jon boat.
I don't know how well it applies to big boats.
Calif Bill
You ain't seen much. First you do not use rope on an anchor. And if there
is wind, on a lake, you want the chain to help get the anchor to set. Try
Okeechobee. I bet the wind can blow bit time there.
Peggie Hall
> You ain't seen much. First you do not use rope on an anchor.
According to whom???? Or do you only mean that rope shouldn't be
connected directly to the anchor?
I'd guess that 99% of small powerboat anchor lines are rope...and very
few of 'em have any chain between the anchor and the rode. Not that it
isn't a good idea...they just don't have any.
The major mistake many of 'em make is in just tying the line onto the
anchor with a unidentifiable mess that doesn't even come close to
resembling any recognized knot instead of using a thimble and a shackle.
JAXAshby
enough time on the water.
JAXAshby
that is the term used by boaters in the context of the Sea-Ray owner's
question.
"line" is fishing line, "rope" is anchor rope.
JAXAshby
>Winnebago.
wayne got his experience in a bathtub reading magazines and navigating a rubber
ducky around a pylon.
JAXAshby
of water is just exactly almost like a fishing lake in Kentucky. You have no
idea how grateful we all are here that you can google and then tell the
Kentucky Sea-Ray owner to lay in 275 feet of chain, a 65# CQR, an electric
windlass, a backup 35# Danforth anchor, another 275 feet of chain, 75# fishman
anchor with 200 feet of heavy chain and a 25# "lunch hook" with 80 feet of
chain.
Again, dam, thanks for sharing your in-depth knowledge.
At least one thing came of your post, dam. Before, the Sea-Ray owner didn't
know why the word "squathead" was usually used in reference to a powerboater.
Now he does.
Eisboch
Try anchor rode.
Eisboch
Peter W. Meek
wrote:
> The minimum scope (length of anchor
>line) should be at least 3x the water's depth...so in 15' of water,
>you'd need to put out at least 45' of anchor line.
Measure the "depth" from where the anchor rode
meets the boat. If your chock or cleat is 3'
above the water, the effective depth would be
18' in 15' of true depth. This makes much more
difference in shallow water than in deep water.
And as Peggie says, 3x is the minimum -- good
weather, little wind or current, and someone
keeping an eye on things at all times. If you
want to relax or leave the boat for a while,
you need more scope than that.
Gould 0738
Acch!
You're all right, sort of.
"Rope" is a proper term for certain types of cordage aboard a boat.
Technically, it is supposed to apply to cordage that is 1" or more in diameter,
with lesser sizes considered "small stuff", or "twine". Nobody in 2004 uses the
term "small stuff" on a pleasure boat, and we all think of "twine" as something
you use to wrap a parcel or lash a Christmas tree to the roof of the family
station wagon. Rope works.
The guy who refers to unemployed cordage
as "rope" isn't lubberly- it's the white slacks, blue blazer, yacht clubber
gripping the champagne flute with an extended pinky finger and feigning disgust
whenever anybody uses the term "rope" that
displays ignorance on the topic.
When rope is put to work, it can become a "line." It can be a bow line, a stern
line, a spring line, a breast line, etc.
But rope can work without being a line of any type. It can be a halyard, a
lashing, a bell rope, or any number of things not properly considered a "line."
An achor rode is the rope, chain, cable, or combination thereof that connects
vessel to anchor.
Wayne.B
>"Rope" is a proper term for certain types of cordage aboard a boat.
======================================
Now I understand.
Rope is the stuuf you use to make knots...
Gould 0738
>
>Rope is the stuuf you use to make knots...
Hmmm.......
A guy who hangs on every phrase that Limbaugh speaks is a ditto head.
A guy who smoke pot is a pothead.
So, what's a guy who is hung up on knots?
:-)
Wayne.B
>So, what's a guy who is hung up on knots?
======================================
A guy hung up on knots is, ugh, a little stretched out...
Just got a phone call from the boatyard doing the pressure testing on
the GB fuel tanks. Not good it turns out.
So what's your favorite way of replacing fuel tanks on a GB49?
Calif Bill
anchor, it becomes a rode.
Bill
"Peggie Hall" <peg...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40A9A8A4...@nospam.com...
Calif Bill
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040518072009...@mb-m23.aol.com...
DSK
> Just got a phone call from the boatyard doing the pressure testing on
> the GB fuel tanks. Not good it turns out.
>
> So what's your favorite way of replacing fuel tanks on a GB49?
Depends. Where are they, how difficult to access, what do you want to
replace them with, do you mind cutting big panels out of the hull?
I am thinking ahead to replacing our fuel tanks, and so far I have
considered two options: cutting them up in place, and replacing them
with fiberglass tanks molded in place (I could premold some of the
sections); or cutting the tops off the tanks and putting bladder tanks
inside the old tanks.
The classic way to remove & replace fuel tanks is to cut big panels out
of the hull, yank the tanks, put in new ones, and refiberglass the
panels into place. Just as strong and (given a reasonable level of skill
with fiberglass) nobody could ever tell it was cut. Yet somehow I don't
want to do this to our boat....
Fair Skies
Doug King
Calif Bill
major, an anchor rode is a line until attached. For my 14' aluminum boat, I
used poly rope and 5' of 1/4" chain to a 5# danforth knockoff ancuor for
years. Went to an 8# when after fishing the Sacramento river, I plowed the
bottom.
Bill
"Harry Krause" <etaoin_shr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3dhc2g=.ec25b726c031e6374dec58c4fa8be546@1084884347.nulluser.com...
> Calif Bill wrote:
>
> > "JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040517202107...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> > > >Put 8-10' of 1/4" to 5/16" galvanized
> > > >chain between the anchor and 3/8" anchor line / rope.
> > >
> > > in all my years in and around boats on Midwest lakes, I never saw, nor
> > ever
> > > heard of, using chain on an anchor. Not once. You tie the rope to
the
> > > mushroom and drop it overboard.
> >
> > You ain't seen much. First you do not use rope on an anchor.
>
> Of course you do and can. Under some conditions, all you want is a
> little "river" anchor and 20' of light line. Depends on the conditions.
> Or are you one of those who are hung up on "line, rope or rode?"
>
>
>
> And if there
> > is wind, on a lake, you want the chain to help get the anchor to set.
Try
> > Okeechobee. I bet the wind can blow bit time there.
>
>
> I've fished the Big O nearly a dozen times. Never anchored once while
> fishing. Did anchor several times on the edges of the canals there, and
> used an 8# "river" anchor with some light line. No chain. No need for
> chain.
>
> When fishing the ICW shallows in Florida, I didn't use chain, either. In
> fact, I simply tied a line around a smooth, round weight. The water was
> shallow and I didn't want to rip up any oyster beds.
>
>
> Under certain circumstances, the "hard and fast" rules simply do not
apply.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gould 0738
>anchor, it becomes a rode.
>Bill
No, not true Bill.
It's not a line if its a rope.
A rope can become a line when it is put to use.
From Lenfesty: (a widely acknowledged arbiter of nautical verbiage)
line (n) The word applied to rope in many of its functional applications aboard
ship...
(Lefesty continues with an observation that rope is not always called "line".)
.....there are many exceptions, such as boltrope, footrope, and bell rope, or
halyard, sheet, and cable.
Regarding the overuse of the term "line", Lenfesty declares:
Some of the most specious and arbitrary writing has arisen over the use of the
word "rope" on seagoing vessels. Some writers flatly declare that when cordage
comes aboard a vessel if is line unless it is specifically named, as with
boltrope; but this bit of mystique was unheard of a hundred years or so ago.
***
Nobody would ever say, "When you attach an achor to a halyard..........." so
why is it corect, indeed claimed to be the only correct option, to say "when
you attach an anchor to a line." When you attach an achor to a bow line, stern
line, breast line, or spring line.....you look pretty silly in my book. :-)
The reason we don't have an anchor "line" is that we call that use of rope a
"rode".
I think this "line" fixation might have originated with you guys who use your
boats for rod and reel fishing. You call everything you can spool onto a reel a
fishing "line". It would be pretty ridiculous to refer to fishing rope, twine,
or cordage. :-)
Gould 0738
Up through the engine hatch.
You will need to pull at least one engine.
You may get away with temporarily moving the other engine onto the opposite
mounts,
(and then back again, obviously) when the new tanks are installed. Depends on
space.
How do you plan to use the boat? Many trawlers have a lot more fuel capacity
than they need. A boater running 75 hours a year has too much fuel on board
with 450-500 gallons, yet you run into these situations all the time. You could
possibly make your life easier if you could use slightly smaller tanks. Going
to smaller tanks could impact the eventual resale value, however, and its
defintiely not something you'd want to do if cruising the length of the ICW is
part of your plan for the boat.
The bladder option may be less desirable on large tanks. Bladders don't have
the internal baffling that helps control slosh in partially filled tanks. Way
more than OK on a 10 gallon sailboat aux application, but
unless there's some way to baffle bladders that I don't know anything about I'd
be careful on a 150-250 gallon tank.
You found the tanks at the *right* time.
You have a lot of leverage to get the seller to make the repair. After all, if
the seller lets you "walk" over the fuel tank issue, he'll simply be dealing
with it again in several months when (if) he finds another buyer, who will also
want the boat surveyed.
You are well aware, of course, that unless
the availability of cash is a key issue that makes it more convenient to roll
repairs into a boat loan, you're better off to get an estimate from a
legitimate yard, (add 20% for aggravation and the inevitable "discoveries" as
the job progresses), and get a financial concession from the seller.
The seller will be more likely to grant a price concession than to screw around
doing repairs on a boat he's mentally done with. If the seller does attempt to
do the repairs it will likely be a quick and very dirty job- not at all what
you want.
Calif Bill
the end of the anchor rope to the dead body, before tossing it overboard."
Bill
"Gould 0738" <goul...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040518145517...@mb-m01.aol.com...
JAXAshby
>anchor, it becomes a rode.
>Bill
In France, they speak French. In Italy, they speak Italian. In California,
they speak cereal (i.e. nuts, fruits and flakes). On Midwest lakes, an anchor
is tied to a boat with a rope.
JAXAshby
billy bud, I live on an island in the Atlantic Ocean.
Harry Krause
> So...... what is the diameter of a 3 inch rope?
>
How long is it?
Gould 0738
Is this the trick question with the punch line "it doesn't matter what the
diameter is, you can't do much with three inches of rope?"
(I'm sure millions of frustrated women would agree)
Marshall Banana
>>At least I get to water.
> billy bud, I live on an island in the Atlantic Ocean.
It's not an island. It's a peninsula. The Supreme Court said so,
officially making Whidbey Island, WA the longest island in the country.
Dan
--
I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was
that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those
people.
-- Dan Quayle
Calif Bill
> >At least I get to water.
>
> billy bud, I live on an island in the Atlantic Ocean.
So, you look at the water as you drive over the bridge. If you boated the
ocean, you would have bigger than a 12' boat.
Calif Bill
"Gene Kearns" <ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:55fla0dskl8ln6g6b...@4ax.com...
> accustomed to a prairie schooner.
>
> Just how much does that "rope" stretch?? It that the same "rope" that
> Roy Rogers uses? Get along little dingy..... yip....yip.....
> yee-haw.... little mushroom anchor....
>
> --
>
>
>
> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.
>
> http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
> http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
> http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
> http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
>
ROTFLMAO!!!
Shen44
>
>So...... what is the diameter of a 3 inch rope?
>
1 inch
I can't remember where rope changes from diameter to circumference when
describing....it may be around 1.5 inch dia.
Below 5/8 dia, it was called "small stuff".
<G> Then again, different groups may have different points.
Shen
Gould 0738
The rec.boats posters went into Big Box Marine.
Calif Bill bought ten feet of anchor line
Gould bought ten feet of rope to use for an anchor rode
Jax bought ten feet of rope to use for an anchor rope.
The young clerk on duty got rather confused by it all, and forgot what the
cordage was supposed to sell for.
The clerk charged all three rec.boats posters $10 @.
Before the posters could relocate their argument to the parking lot, the
manager of Big Box Marine asked the clerk about the sale. The clerk said, "I
didn't know what to charge, so they each paid $10."
"That's too much said the manager of Big Box Marine, " {{OK< OK>>>It's a fable
already so give me a break}} "Take $5 out of the till and give it back to
them."
The clerk didn't know how to divide $5 by three, so he took a $2 "tip" and gave
eachof the rec.boaters a $1 refund. Since the cordage originally cost each
poster $10 and they received $1 back, the net cost per poster could be said to
be $9.
Since 9X3 = 27, and the clerk absoconded with $2....what happened to the extra
buck? ($27 + 2 = $29)
Who will be the first "unstumped" by this one? :-)
Wayne.B
>How do you plan to use the boat? Many trawlers have a lot more fuel capacity
>than they need. A boater running 75 hours a year has too much fuel on board
>with 450-500 gallons, yet you run into these situations all the time.
==================================================
The boat has a pair of 500 gallon tanks, both rusted out at the top.
I plan to use the boat way more than 75 hours a year, probably living
aboard and cruising it for 5 or 6 months of the year after I retire.
Long range at a semblance of economy was one of the attractions of the
GB 49 versus a Hatt 53.
There's a ton of information on the web about replacing tanks, and
quite a few different options. Cutting holes and reglassing is not
way up on my list of favorites however. One of the issues now is who
does the repair and when. If I had my druthers I'd like to set up an
escrow account with the sellers $$$s, do the deal, and pay for repairs
with the escrow funds. It may be sticky getting insurance however
with defective tanks on the survey. If I push the deal out waiting
for repairs, there is a big risk of interest rates taking off in a big
way. There already up almost 1/2 a percent in the last month.
JAXAshby
>>they speak cereal (i.e. nuts, fruits and flakes). On Midwest lakes, an
>anchor
>>is tied to a boat with a rope.
>
>In the Midwest one can expect the nautical experience of those
>accustomed to a prairie schooner.
>
It is their boats, their anchors and their lakes. They can call them sweet
potatoes if they wish.
JAXAshby
>
>It's not an island. It's a peninsula. The Supreme Court said so,
>officially making Whidbey Island, WA the longest island in the country.
Manhattan Island is a peninsula? Well, there is that tiny piece of the Bronx
that is legally part of Manhattan, but I don't live on that part.
JAXAshby
>
>So, you look at the water as you drive over the bridge. If you boated the
>ocean, you would have bigger than a 12' boat.
Oh? Well, I do also have an Achilles and an inflatable kayak.
Boy, was it hell getting all the last two Atlantic Highlands to Cape May last
fall aboard the Porta-Bote on my weigh south, but I squeezed by. The waves
were sometimes 2 feet high, cresting to 2-1/2 feet, the fish were circling and
the sky too coast to take any celestial sights.
Marshall Banana
Ah, I thought you had mentioned you lived on Long Island, which is legally
a peninsula. However, no one in their right mind would call Manhattan an
island in the Atlantic ocean. It's surrounde by rivers on all sides, for
gods sake.
Dan
--
Take GWAR, add in some goats and stuff, and you have Grimstari!
-- Matt Hufstetler
Peter W. Meek
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>In the Midwest one can expect the nautical experience of those
>accustomed to a prairie schooner.
Dunno about that. Somehow, Michigan (part of
the Midwest) has more boats registered than
any other state. At least a few of us have
a bit of boating experience. The Great Lakes
(bordering several Midwestern states, and thus
Midwestern Lakes) have just about everything in
the way of boating pleasures except hurricanes
(we are limited to the occasional tornado and
80 kt straight-line winds) and (noticeable) tides.
You can go in a straight line for several days
out of the sight of land. Not an ocean crossing,
but I bet a lot of salt water cruisers don't
make open ocean crossings either.
My take on nomenclature: rope is the material;
lines (and a few named ropes) are what you
make from rope. Rode is like halyard, sheet,
painter, stay, or shroud: a special name for a
particular application.
Thus you take some rope (and maybe a bit of
chain) to make your anchor rode. Anchor line
is probably acceptable. Reducing precision
of usage dilutes the language. Maybe a lost
cause, but worth fighting for anyway.
On adding chain to the rode: I like to have chain
equal to the weight of the anchor. Unless you
are anchoring in coral or some other abrasive
bottom, six to ten feet is plenty, so you up the
size of the chain to get the weight up. With a
25# danforth, use ten feet of 1/2" chain (overkill
for strength, but about the right weight).
--
--Pete "Peter W. Meek" <pwm...@mail.msen.com>
Rec.boats caps and burgees at:
http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/cap-main.html
JAXAshby
>island in the Atlantic ocean. It's surrounde by rivers on all sides, for
>gods sake.
you are just jealous that you don't live in the Center Of The Universe.
Gould 0738
Fremont?
Gould 0738
>escrow account with the sellers $$$s, do the deal, and pay for repairs
>with the escrow funds. It may be sticky getting insurance however
>with defective tanks on the survey. If I push the deal out waiting
>for repairs, there is a big risk of interest rates taking off in a big
Ask your insurance broker about "port risk" coverage. That's a limited policy
that would cover the vessel if it sank or caught fire while waiting to get into
the yard for repairs. (If you take it out and use it, you're uninsured). In
your situation, there might be an exclusion for oil spill liability.
The escrow approach works well, and since there's a lender involved that may be
the factor that allows the deal to move ahead prior to the tank repair. The
seller might be understandably reluctant to spend several thousand dollars
repairing the tanks while risking that your financing
might dry up. Undoubtedly you could survive a bump of a few percent or more in
the interest rate, but the seller doesn't know that you are capable or willing
to do so.
If the survey makes the lender balky, (and if you're dealing with an
organization where you can talk sense to the actual decision makers), another
solution is to set up a "hold back" provision in the loan.
You and the seller agree that the selling price of the boat will be (example)
$300,000 *with* the survey items corrected. The survey items total $30,000.
At closing, you sign a note for $300,000 (less your dp, of course).
The seller gets $270,000 (gross, before commissions, payoff of any marine
mortgage, etc). Your lender sits on the remaining $30,000 until the repairs are
completed to the surveyor's satisfaction.
The lender is insulated by your down payment as well as the $30,000 holdback,
so this can sometimes get the lender on board when there are serious exceptions
to survey.
Jeff Morris
news:2h12o3F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Also Sprach JAXAshby <jaxa...@aol.com>:
> >>> billy bud, I live on an island in the Atlantic Ocean.
> >>
> >>It's not an island. It's a peninsula. The Supreme Court said so,
> >>officially making Whidbey Island, WA the longest island in the country.
>
> > Manhattan Island is a peninsula? Well, there is that tiny piece of the
Bronx
> > that is legally part of Manhattan, but I don't live on that part.
>
> Ah, I thought you had mentioned you lived on Long Island, which is legally
> a peninsula. However, no one in their right mind would call Manhattan an
> island in the Atlantic ocean. It's surrounde by rivers on all sides, for
> gods sake.
Jax never was very good with navigation.
Calif Bill
rope/line/twine. Then the Federal government trained clerk took the rebate
and charged a 40% handling charge to administer the rebate. About like the
rest of the Federal Government on giving back the taxes they extracted from
the states, to give back to the states. But if the clerk was really
government material, he would have added some extra requirements to the 60%
of the rebate he let the payers have.
Bill
"Gould 0738" <goul...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040519001943...@mb-m19.aol.com...
John Smith
the actual cost $25. The people paid $27 less the $2 the clerk took, it
becomes $25.
"Calif Bill" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:rBNqc.2469$be....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Gould 0738
>the actual cost $25. The people paid $27 less the $2 the clerk took, it
>becomes $25.
Very close. In fact, you may have it figured out and I'm not quite bright
enough to follow your explanation. The problem confounds some people who are
led into doing a certain type of math.
The $9 apiece is really a red herring. Like good propaganda, it uses someting
that appears logical to support something that is not true.
$30 aggregate from the buyers. At this point the cost of the goods was $30.
That
changed to $25, momentarily, when the manager instructed the clerk to refund $5
fom the till. The cost went back up to $27 when the clerk "reduced the refund"
by two bucks. Add the dollar apiece given to
the three posters to $27, and all $30 is accounted for.
But 3 x $9 is still $27, and the clerk took $2.
Amazing what you can do with a carefully selected portion of the truth and a
deliberately calculated presentation.
Marshall Banana
Actually, I used to live there, grew up there in fact. Spent 5 years in
school in Atlanta, decided to get out of that hellhole. Moved back to NY
for my first job. Entire company was moved to Mexico 3 years later. Then
I moved to Seattle, been here ever since. It's like New York without all
the assclowns. and FYI, I live precisely 20 miles from the Center of the
Universe... at least that's what the sign says.
http://www.seattlephotographs.com/photos/fremont/fremont_sign_2d.htm
Dan
--
"A good engineer gets stale very fast if he doesn't keep his hands
dirty."
-- Wernher von Braun
Peter W. Meek
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
<pwmeek wrote:>
>>On adding chain to the rode: I like to have chain
>>equal to the weight of the anchor. Unless you
>>are anchoring in coral or some other abrasive
>>bottom, six to ten feet is plenty, so you up the
>>size of the chain to get the weight up. With a
>>25# danforth, use ten feet of 1/2" chain (overkill
>>for strength, but about the right weight).
>
>If you are using this for the original 19' boat.... you certainly
>*will* be anchored....
Actually, that IS the rig I use on my 20' center
console. I occasionally wish it were lighter, but
not as often as I am glad I have it when I make
a first-try set on hard clay in a 4 kt current.
I usually find that only an inch or two of the
flukes have penetrated into the clay when I
retrieve. Once another boat, that failed in
making a set, t-boned me (his side/my bow).
On that retrieve, nearly 6" had dug in.
Maybe not typical, but it's MY worst-case
anchoring problem.
I've also used it to kedge off a mud bank
that I ran up on. It took 4 of us pulling
to drag us off. (An embarrassing error on
my part -- don't ask.)
I do carry a 10# mushroom for a lunch "hook".
JAXAshby
>a first-try set on hard clay in a 4 kt current.
why do you use a Danforth in hard clay?
Steven Shelikoff
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>A Danforth is absolutely the worst anchor you could be using if your
>conditions are clay. Danforth's are beautiful in sand and soft mud,
>but nearly useless in hard clay. I'd go for a lighter plow type
>anchor like a S-L Delta set-fast. Less back breaking work and more
>holding power.
My Bruce works well in clay. Also works in mud and sand and just about
everything. I have a CQR, Danforth and Bruce and just about always use
the Bruce as the primary anchor. It sets and resets fast, holds well
and is easy to break out.
Steve
JAXAshby
>
>Steve
>
the true test of an anchor.
Peter W. Meek
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>I usually find that only an inch or two of the
>>flukes have penetrated into the clay when I
>>retrieve. Once another boat, that failed in
>>making a set, t-boned me (his side/my bow).
>>On that retrieve, nearly 6" had dug in.
>>Maybe not typical, but it's MY worst-case
>>anchoring problem.
>>
>
>A Danforth is absolutely the worst anchor you could be using if your
>conditions are clay. Danforth's are beautiful in sand and soft mud,
>but nearly useless in hard clay. I'd go for a lighter plow type
>anchor like a S-L Delta set-fast. Less back breaking work and more
>holding power.
My problem isn't holding power, it's making
the set at all. I could probably use a grappling
hook with a weight on the shank. I get plenty
of holding power from the ***2 or 3 square inches***
of the tips of the flukes that dig in. I'm talking
a glassy surface with slight undulations. I lower
the anchor to the bottom and let out 7 or 8 to one
scope with NO tension. Then I drag the anchor, holding
the rode in my fingertips, feeling for the first catch,
and then pull slightly harder, hoping that the tips
are caught on one of the ripples. As I ease the tips
into the clay I apply more tension until I think it
will hold. At that point I can reduce scope to
about 4 or 5 to 1. Then I cleat it off.
Once a much larger boat (35'?) missed his set and drifted
(at 4 kts) sideways down onto my bow. When he hit,
I thought he would break my set, since I knew that
only an inch or two of the tips were dug in. To
my surprise, it held. When I pulled the anchor (with
MUCH difficulty -- up and down, cleat it off, rock
the boat, power back and forth) there was clay on
only about 5 or 6 inches of the tips of the flukes.
The clay has to be chipped off with a screw driver.
It is much stiffer than cold plasticine (the green,
oily modeling clay). I suspect that if I set a
plow anchor there, I'd have to cut the line and
leave it at the end of the day.
This is at the north end of the channel that runs
behind Belle Isle in the Detroit River. It is the
location of the spectator fleet for the hydroplane
races. Watching people try to anchor there is
almost as much fun as a day at the public boat ramps.
Much cutting of rodes by people who miss their sets
and try to power out of a mess. And the usual gang
of first timers who try to anchor with a mushroom
and enough poly line to reach the 40' bottom. Every
year one of these guys prepares to drop his mushroom
about where someone else's anchor is dug in and has
to be shouted off by the other boats anchored in the
area.
Steven Shelikoff
I wouldn't say the true test. But it's one of the many characteristics
of a good anchor in addition to the ones you snipped, which include:
>My Bruce works well in clay. Also works in mud and sand and just about
>everything. [...] It sets and resets fast, holds well and is easy to break out.
If an anchor is not easy to break out, I'd only be using it for either
times when I plan to anchor for days or weeks on end and not just an
overnight or two like I usually do or as a second anchor for when the
wind kicks up. It would not be my primary anchor.
Steve
JAXAshby
choice of anchors.
JAXAshby
>> >>and is easy to break out.
>> >>
>> >>Steve
>> >>
>> >
>> >the true test of an anchor.
and
>easy retrieval is one of my prime
>considerations when choosing an anchor.
and
>relatively inexpensive.
why?
>I've lost a number of
>them over the years
never heard of a trip line, eh?
Calif Bill
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040521105050...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Steven Shelikoff
> what fine, fine sailors.
Thank you for the compliment.
Steve
Steven Shelikoff
>yup, an anchor that is easy to pull loose from the bottom, THAT is the best
>choice of anchors.
In some cases, yes. In your case, you should get one that is impossible
to pull from the bottom since your sailing is limited to your bathtub.
Steve
JAXAshby
you hang 400 feet of chain on it. Then it would take nearly a 9 knot wind to
break it free.
for the kristes sake guys. have you no clew on how to break out an anchor
using the engine, or sails if your boat does not have a working engine?
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
Steven Shelikoff
>what a frickin dunce you are, little boy.
Thank you for the compliment. That, coming from you, is high praise
indeed.
Steve
JAXAshby
>>
>
>break loose and jerk the deck off of your boat.
ah no, gene, it will not, for tin foil is not an anchor and 4# is not either.
kriste on a crutch but you guys are lazy clucks. Too lazy to even use the
engine to break out the anchor and so you find it hugely satisfying to
purposely get an anchor too small to actually anchor the boat under some to be
expected conditions.
there is no hope for anyone so lazy.
JAXAshby
Steven Shelikoff
Can't think of any other compliments? Did the speedo cut off
circulation to your brain? That's ok. It;s music to my ears to hear
that one over and over again.
Steve
Harry Krause
Steve, Steve, Steve...leave the baby alone.
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
what a frickin dunce you are, old man.
JAXAshby
>anchor. Vertical pull, you know.....
>
sure, gene. particularly if you use a too small anchor.