Mercruiser Sea Water Pump--Does Anyone Really Change the Oil Every Season?
Sadler Love
was new, and still ok) on my '95 Mercruiser 454 Bravo III failed this past
weekend just north of Beaufort, SC with only 239 hours. Talking to several
dealers, this is not at all rare, especially if you don't change the oil in
the pump every season. Does this sound right? Does anyone really change this
oil every season? And how typical is a sea water pump failure? Is 239 hours
average? My new one cost $430, and that is parts only and doesn't include my
labor for changing it--not an easy job! Good news is that BoatUS unlimited
towing saved me a $1600 (50 mile) towing fee!! And should I expect lots of
things to be breaking/wearing out now on my Mercruiser with 239 hours ? That
translates into only approx. 6000 miles at an average speed of 25 mph.
That's hardly through the break-in period for a car! Thanks.
Sadler
Russ Glindmeier, CFP
Sadler Love wrote in message <80vol7$r3o$1...@news3.infoave.net>...
year. I had all the MerCruiser maintenance and service manuals, and I don't
recall a single mention of routine changing or even checking the level of
the oil in the pump. In fact, up until the failure, I had no idea that
there was oil in the pump. My failure was not caused by a lack of
lubricant. There is a seal in the pump that keeps water away from the
lubricated bearings and shaft. That seal failed on my pump. The telltale
was a small amount of water dripping out of a small weep hole in the body of
the pump. I noticed the weeping during my mandatory bilge inspection with
the engine running upon launching the boat after a tow to Lake Powell. The
boat shop at Wahweap Marina at Lake Powell didn't have a new pump in stock.
I called MerCruiser tech support in Stillwater, OK and asked them if it was
safe to use the boat for the weekend. They said it would be alright and to
deal with the problem when I got home. The pump failed catastrophically a
day and a half later and took the fuel pump (which is mechanically driven by
the water pump) with it. 50 mile tow for me as well, but at no where near
the $1,600 you would have been charged. I also had coverage for the towing.
$430 for a new pump sounds about what I paid for mine, plus labor to
install. And yes, it didn't look like an easy job. My dealer said he'd
never seen one fail before. They had to order a pump from Mercury. The
fuel pump was covered by warranty. The water pump was not because it is
considered a wearable item. I thought that was odd. Certainly the impeller
is a wearable item, but the entire pump assembly due to seal and bearing
failure?
My guess would be that the pump is lubricated for life, assuming you never
get any water mixed with the oil. If that happens due to seal failure, it's
time to replace or rebuild the pump.
Russ
-- Mike --
If you don't, what happened....could happen.
As far as if you should expect to break on the boat really depends on how
you maintain it.
I'd read the owners manual and follow the recommended maintenance
procedures.
- Mike
Sadler Love <Sad...@infoavenospam.net> wrote in message
news:80vol7$r3o$1...@news3.infoave.net...
Larry KN4IM
cooling water seems kind of high, to me. Mercury recommends lots of
oil changes for all their underwater bearings, like the foot bearings
in an outboard, my jet pump gears and driveshaft bearings, I/O
outdrive oil sumps. I've never found any water in the jet pump's
bearings and gearboxes, but they are always "low" (or lower than when
I filled them) when I change them. Changing the rear bearing oil
means disassembling the pump. That job sucks, too......
Once more I see a reason to stay far away from I/O's in salt water and
see why the simple, old skeg and rudder are easier to take care of.
Of course, all this salt water pumping problem wouldn't be a problem
at all if they'd all just go to Keel Coolers, pumping the antifreeze
OUT of the boat instead of the salt water IN.
Larry
Sadler Love
from now on. I'm pretty suspicious now of the recommendation that I change
the pump oil every season. I think mine may have failed for the same reason
as yours--leaky
seal letting sea water into the bearings/cam area. By the way, the tow
charge would have been so high because we were towed back at night down the
ICW in fog and the tow captain could only go about 6 mph max. and the normal
tow charge is $150/hour. Sure enjoyed that free tow under the stars. Made
the breakdown bearable.
Greg Page
I'd have to look at mine (earlier, no fuel pump model) this weekend,
but if they have an oil fill in them it would be news to me.
-Greg
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:46:06 -0700, "Russ Glindmeier, CFP"
<ru...@att.net> wrote:
>
>Sadler Love wrote in message <80vol7$r3o$1...@news3.infoave.net>...
>>The sealed/oiled side of the sea water pump (not the rubber impeller, that
>>was new, and still ok) on my '95 Mercruiser 454 Bravo III failed this past
>>weekend just north of Beaufort, SC with only 239 hours. Talking to several
>>dealers, this is not at all rare, especially if you don't change the oil in
>>the pump every season. Does this sound right? Does anyone really change
>this
>>oil every season? And how typical is a sea water pump failure? Is 239 hours
>>average? My new one cost $430, and that is parts only and doesn't include
>my
>>labor for changing it--not an easy job! Good news is that BoatUS unlimited
>>towing saved me a $1600 (50 mile) towing fee!! And should I expect lots of
>>things to be breaking/wearing out now on my Mercruiser with 239 hours ?
>That
>>translates into only approx. 6000 miles at an average speed of 25 mph.
>>That's hardly through the break-in period for a car! Thanks.
>>
>>Sadler
>>
>>
Jerry Hahn
using only Quicksilvers High Performance gear lube. To bad the drain hole
isn't low enough to drain all the oil though considering that there is only
about a 1/2 - 3/4 cup of oil. Jerry
Russ Glindmeier, CFP <ru...@att.net> wrote in message
news:80vtbg$q11$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
Russ Glindmeier, CFP
Jerry Hahn wrote in message ...
> My manual says to check the oil every 50 hrs. of use and change yearly
>using only Quicksilvers High Performance gear lube. To bad the drain hole
>isn't low enough to drain all the oil though considering that there is only
>about a 1/2 - 3/4 cup of oil. Jerry
>
This is for the oil in the engine-mounted sea water supply pump? Jeez, I
must have missed that reference in the maintenance and service manuals. I
gave the manuals to the new owner when I sold him the boat, so I can't
re-check them. The new boat has Alphas, so the pumps are in the drives.
Russ
Roy Woodruff
I'm like Russ - never noticed any reference to changing water pump oil in the
service info provided with our new engine (1996 7.4L 300 w/ belt driven fuel
pump). Is the manual you are referring to a factory manual? If so, I would
appreciate any additional identifying info you can provide such as the date and
Merc part number (of the manual) and the specific page(s) that recommends
changing the water pump oil.
I have looked at our engine (not a particularly easy task <g>) and I could not
see any fill or drain plugs. Where on the water pump are they located?
--
Roy Woodruff
ro...@hotmail.com
Meadview, AZ
"Jerry Hahn" <jerry...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:uQ3vYylM$GA.276@cpmsnbbsa02...
> My manual says to check the oil every 50 hrs. of use and change yearly
> using only Quicksilvers High Performance gear lube. To bad the drain hole
> isn't low enough to drain all the oil though considering that there is only
> about a 1/2 - 3/4 cup of oil. Jerry
>
>
Russ Glindmeier, CFP
Roy Woodruff wrote in message ...
>Hi Jerry
>
>I'm like Russ - never noticed any reference to changing water pump oil in
the
>service info provided with our new engine (1996 7.4L 300 w/ belt driven
fuel
>pump). Is the manual you are referring to a factory manual? If so, I
would
>appreciate any additional identifying info you can provide such as the date
and
>Merc part number (of the manual) and the specific page(s) that recommends
>changing the water pump oil.
>
>I have looked at our engine (not a particularly easy task <g>) and I could
not
>see any fill or drain plugs. Where on the water pump are they located?
>
>--
Working from memory, I don't remember any oil service points on the pump
either, and I had the pump off the engine and in my hands.
Russ
Jerry Hahn
Maintenance Manual' # 90-822488 493 that came with my '94 boat which has
the HP 465 502 cu.in. The fill and drain holes are on the side facing away
from the motor and look like plain flat slotted screws. This is the belt
driven sea water pump with the fuel pump mounted on top. The manual is for
the Mercruiser High Performance Series Motors: HP 465,500, 525SC. Bravo One.
I also have the standard Mercruiser service manuals that show the same pump
but no mention of the oil servicing. I didn't even consider that mine would
be any different than yours since they are the same other than the year and
why did they make them non-servicable? Sorry. Jerry
Russ Glindmeier, CFP <ru...@att.net> wrote in message
news:813qlf$78m$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
Jerry Hahn
pic #14904 from the standard engine manual shows the water pump with the
fuel pump mounted above and but separately, which must be the setup that Roy
& Russ have. As Greg mentioned, the water/fuel pump combo must be the only
ones with fill plugs. Sorry for the confusion, Jerry
Roy Woodruff wrote
...
> Very interesting! As you note, the "Operation & Maintenance Manual" for
the
> standard engine makes no mention of this service. However, in figure #
71170
> illustrating the water hoses connected to the pump (in the section that
> describes how to drain the cooling system) the two plugs you mentioned are
> clear. I went out and checked my pump this afternoon and I only found one
of
> the two plugs shown in the figure. I'll try again tomorrow with a mirror
and
> better light. I guess my next step should be a call to MerCruiser.
Roy Woodruff
standard engine makes no mention of this service. However, in figure # 71170
illustrating the water hoses connected to the pump (in the section that
describes how to drain the cooling system) the two plugs you mentioned are
clear. I went out and checked my pump this afternoon and I only found one of
the two plugs shown in the figure. I'll try again tomorrow with a mirror and
better light. I guess my next step should be a call to MerCruiser.
Thanks for the info!
--
Roy Woodruff
ro...@hotmail.com
Meadview, AZ
"Jerry Hahn" <jerry...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:#iMd0tuM$GA.254@cpmsnbbsa03...
Tom Melanson
referring to the seawater/fuel pump oil(if so equipped) says: "IMPORTANT:
Oil must be changed at specifiied intervals. Refer to Maintenance Chart for
specific requirements. Use only Quicksilver High Performance Gear Lube in
the pump."
The rub is that the only reference to the sea water pump maintenence in the
Maintenence Charts is on page 67. Here it only says: "Task: Seawater Pickup
Pump-Disassemble and Inspect. Interval: Whenever Insufficient Seawqater Flow
is Suspected. (If operating Temperature Exceeds Normal Range.)
Nowhere in the Maintenence charts does it mention what the "specified
interval" is, or even that you should change the oil.
Inferring a timetable from the other major services would lead one to
believe that once every 100 hours or each season would be about right.
Roy Woodruff
I have a 1996 standard 7.4 L 300 hp engine and the fuel pump is
mounted as shown in figure #71170 (the only illustration of the water and
fuel pump assembly I can find in my Operation & Maintenance Manual).
The mystery is why your manual for the high performance versions of this engine
calls for changing the oil and mine does not (and I have found only one plug on
my pump assembly - but I won't be surprised if I missed one - I'm going to
check again today). I sent an email to the folks at http://www.outdrives.com/
asking whether the oil needed to be changed. Here's what Kenny said:
Mercruisers official position is that the oil does NOT have to be changed.
The Mercruiser service schools teach that it's a good idea to check and
maybe change the oil only if the pump is removed for service.
The impeller should be changed every year and that is the perfect time to
change the lube in the pump.
By the way, the pump is filled with Mercruiser High Performance Gear
Lube only, (the green stuff).
Thanks for asking! Kenny
Kenny did not address why our Operation & Maintenance Manuals are different nor
why I apparently have only one plug on the assembly on my engine. And to
compound the issues, my manual does not call for changing the impeller every
year. Indeed, in the scheduled maintenance table the seawater pump is to be
disassembled and inspected "Whenever Insufficient Seawater Flow is Suspected (if
Operating Temperature Exceeds Normal Range)". The topic of when to change an
impeller has recently been "worked" on this forum so I don't want to reopen it
again. However, given Kenny's comments I find it interesting that the
MerCruiser Operations & Maintenance Manual for my engine (manual part number
90-806294962 196) only calls for water pump service when one has overheating
symptoms.
--
Roy Woodruff
ro...@hotmail.com
Meadview, AZ
"Jerry Hahn" <jerry...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OAQkhfwM$GA.261@cpmsnbbsa03...
Roy Woodruff
I checked my engine again this morning with good light. There is
only one plug with a slotted screw (rather than the two plugs shown
in fig. 71170). Instead of a lower (drain?) plug, there is just a
flat area with the message "See Owners Manual for Service" (small
letters that are hard to read - they are arranged in an arc about
where I expected a lower plug).
Perhaps what I am seeing is a "freeze plug" like cap covering a drain
plug - I'm not sure because the entire assembly is coated with such a
thick layer of black paint it is essentially impossible to identify
individual parts/surfaces. Another possibility is all I am seeing is
a label that was applied while the paint was still wet/tacky. However,
the message "See Owners Manual for Service" certainly implies there is
some sort of routine maintenance associated with the plug(s).
I'm going to call MerCruiser Monday and see if they can help.
Sadler Love
(the failed one started this thread) and it had only one hole with a slotted
fill plug. No directions, so we filled it almost all the way with the hi
perf. Merc. gear lube. Question: are you supposed to fill it all the way or
leave room for oil expansion? Thanks,
Sadler Love
Jerry Hahn wrote in message ...
>#71170 & # 70346 are pics of my pump, with the fuel pump mounted on top.
The
>pic #14904 from the standard engine manual shows the water pump with the
>fuel pump mounted above and but separately, which must be the setup that
Roy
>& Russ have. As Greg mentioned, the water/fuel pump combo must be the only
>ones with fill plugs. Sorry for the confusion, Jerry
>
>
>
>Roy Woodruff wrote
>...
Jerry Hahn
be to fill it to the bottom of the hole since that is how I am to check the
level in mine. It is not at the very top, approx. 3/4 up from bottom. Let us
know what you find out since this is of question to several of us. Jerry
Sadler Love wrote
Dave Hall
>
> #71170 & # 70346 are pics of my pump, with the fuel pump mounted on top. The
> pic #14904 from the standard engine manual shows the water pump with the
> fuel pump mounted above and but separately, which must be the setup that Roy
> & Russ have. As Greg mentioned, the water/fuel pump combo must be the only
> ones with fill plugs. Sorry for the confusion, Jerry
>
> Roy Woodruff wrote
> ...
> > Very interesting! As you note, the "Operation & Maintenance Manual" for
> the
> > standard engine makes no mention of this service. However, in figure #
> 71170
> > illustrating the water hoses connected to the pump (in the section that
> > describes how to drain the cooling system) the two plugs you mentioned are
> > clear. I went out and checked my pump this afternoon and I only found one
> of
> > the two plugs shown in the figure. I'll try again tomorrow with a mirror
> and
> > better light. I guess my next step should be a call to MerCruiser.
I had a '94 454 mag, and it had the pump with 2 plugs. My current '96
only has one plug. I changed the oil (and inspected for any gasoline
dilution), by removing the fuel pump, and then soaking up the oil (there
isn't much) with a rag. I refilled it, by pouring in the oil from the
top (before I reattached the pump), until it was level with the
"inspection" plug. I then reattached the fuel pump.
Dave