2 person planing boats in the movie "Wind"???
James Krause
small, extremely fast 2-person sailboats. Anyone know what kind of
boats they were? Sure looked like fun to me.
-Jim
wil...@indyvax.iupui.edu
writes:
> In the movie, "Wind" there was a scene where they were racing some
> small, extremely fast 2-person sailboats.
>
Does anyone know whether "Wind" is out in videotape yet?
Hoover Chan
International 14
re: Is "Wind" out in video tape yet?
Yep.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Hoover Chan - hc...@well.sf.ca.us
{apple,ucbvax,pacbell,hplabs}!well!hchan
hchan%well.s...@cunyvm.bitnet
Tony Rimovsky
>Does anyone know whether "Wind" is out in videotape yet?
>-Lynn
Yes. I don't know how good it will be on television though.
My wife and I had a great time watching this movie. It was a 7pm show on
a friday night and *no one* else was there. Needless to say, we reacted a
little more vocally than we would have if we were not alone. :)
Tony
Madhavan Thirumalai
International 14s or maybe One Design 14s.
M
--
Madhavan
x 35429
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, hc...@well.sf.ca.us (Hoover Chan) says:
>re: 2 person performance dinghy
>
>International 14
>re: Is "Wind" out in video tape yet?
Can anyone confirm this? I was under the impression (read: a very foggy
old memory) that this part of the filming was done in Australia, and so
they would be 14 Foot Dinghys, and not International 14s.
Both boats are quite similar, and there is some talk of merging the two
classes. So far there are some minor technical details that have prevented
the merging of these two wonderful high performance boats. There isn't
much difference in weight, sail area or rig details to differentiate them.
Al Bowers
--
Al Bowers DOD #900 Alfa Ducati Hobie Kottke 'blad Iaido
National Aeronautics and Space Administration Dryden Flight Research Facility
Lead Aero F-18 HARV Chief Engineer SR-71 work: bow...@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
"Take up an attitude with the sun behind you..." -Miyamoto Musashi
Jeff Merriman
writes:
>
> In a previous article, hc...@well.sf.ca.us (Hoover Chan) says:
>
> >re: 2 person performance dinghy
> >
> >International 14
>
Where can one find out more about this class? ie. is it a
one design or is there a more open class spec, and where are
they sailed?
Hoover Chan
A couple of places where information can be found are the Richmond
Yacht Club (I just found out they had a series of "Sail a dinghy"
days during the winter) and the St. Francis Yacht Club (I've seen
I14 regattas racing on the City Front).
re: Were the planing dinghys in the movie "Wind" really I14's?
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I just assumed they were the I14's rather
than the One-design 14 or some other types. Since the film is now
out on video tape, maybe someone who's sailed these boats can take
a closer look and let us know for sure.
Karl Kuzis
Thirumalai) wrote:
>
> In article <C9rBB...@unix.portal.com>, j...@shell.portal.com (James Krause) writes:
> |> In the movie, "Wind" there was a scene where they were racing some
> |> small, extremely fast 2-person sailboats. Anyone know what kind of
> |> boats they were? Sure looked like fun to me.
>
Cost about 3500 for a used one, come in one and two person trapezze
rigs. They should use the sequences from WIND to market the damn things !!!
I haven't got one but here's the poop on them.
US Intl 14 Assn
206 784-9810
P.O. Box 30831
Seattle Wa 98103
Karl Kuzis 470 #US-608
Portland, Oregon, USA.
Email: c/o Eck...@ohsu.edu (Put my name in the subject area)
Voice: Wk (503) 494-2491
Hm (503) 283-9417
Grayson Walker
>-Lynn
The "WIND" made it to videotape VERY FAST. I rented it and was glad I
read the review in Wooden Boat. It's tolerable for $1.00, it would have
been an insult for $10.00. The story line is not believable, the
characterizations are even worse: it's the ultimate super-yuppie
fantasy/nightmare. Some of the photography is great, but much of it
is very confused. The bottom line: THE WIND BLOWS.
--
FORZA!
GWA...@RTFM.MLB.FL.US "Big brown river. . ." Tuli Kupferberg, 1963
wil...@indyvax.iupui.edu
My wife and I viewed it last night. We agree, the story line is
terminally ill but the sailing sequences are great (wish there were
more, however).
New Question: Is this story based (very loosely if at all) on
Dennis Connors' saga? There seem to be some significant similarities,
such as the alliance with the aeronautical engineer (or has that been a
standard practice at that level of sailing?), and losing then winning
back the cup to the Aussies. Just wondering.
Lynn Willis
wil...@indyvax.iupui.edu
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, wil...@indyvax.iupui.edu () says:
>New Question: Is this story based (very loosely if at all) on
>Dennis Connors' saga? There seem to be some significant similarities,
>such as the alliance with the aeronautical engineer (or has that been a
>standard practice at that level of sailing?), and losing then winning
>back the cup to the Aussies. Just wondering.
It was just a good story (yeah, right).
But to clear up a very common misconception, there are very few
aeronautical engineers involved with this typs of sailing. Much work is
done to try to produce CFD (that's Computational Fluid Dynamics for you
non-aero types) results, but _NOBODY_ does the follow-up to see if the CFD
results actually translate out on to the water with testing.
The _few_ exceptions to this are the Tony DiMauro catamaran group, Lindsey
Cunningham and his band of crazies (anybody who you go 44+ knots in a
sailboat _IS_ crazy), and of course Frank Bethwaite.
Bill Plunkett
>
> Does anyone know whether "Wind" is out in videotape yet?
>
our local video shop. To tell the truth, I had not heard of it
before, but took a chance just because it was about sailing. It
turned out to be a decent movie and well received even by my friend
who's a bit less a sailing nut than me.
-billp
David Taylor
Dave
--
David Taylor INTEL Office Phone (503) 642-8563
My opinions are mine ,, and nobody elses.
Andy Harrop
: Does anyone in the Portland OR area race the small boatsfrom the movie ??
Sorry I am not in the Portland OR area.
I understand the small boats are International 14's or known in Australia as
14 foot skiffs.
I own an Int 14 and have just competed in the European Champs. We will be
racing in Canada for our World Champs the week following CORK (Canadian
Olympic Regatta Kingston) at the end of August.
Come see some spectacular sailing.
regards
Andy Harrop
ps. I've got one for sale as well !!. 4000 sterling. to get a new one is 14000.
Ken Sherratt
<stuff deleted>
: I own an Int 14 and have just competed in the European Champs. We will be
<more stuff deleted>
: regards
: Andy Harrop
Andy.
Would you mind sharing the results of the Yurpean Champs with the rest of r.b?
Or at least how you got on!!
Regards
Ken Sherratt.
Maddi Hausmann
>The "WIND" made it to videotape VERY FAST. I rented it and was glad I
>read the review in Wooden Boat. It's tolerable for $1.00, it would have
>been an insult for $10.00. The story line is not believable, the
>characterizations are even worse: it's the ultimate super-yuppie
>fantasy/nightmare. Some of the photography is great, but much of it
>is very confused. The bottom line: THE WIND BLOWS.
It sure does. We rented it last night, expecting a lousy plot
but some good sailing shots. Some of the plot turns were pretty
unintentionally funny, though, like when the sewerman (the guy
handling the spinnaker) got a sheet twisted around his leg and
was hoisted up with the sail. These guys have been crewing for
years and we should expect a goof like that? Or when the Aussies
deliberately luffed to tear the "whomper" sail, and they don't
call a protest? Where were the accompanying boats during this
race, anyway?
Best continuity error was at the finish line, where they're tacking
upwind, and after crossing the line, the next shot has them flying
the spinnaker again. I guess they thought it looked pretty.
Maddi Hausmann & Cliff Sojourner
Catalina 25 #2411 "Integrity"
Peninsula Marina, Redwood City, CA
--
Maddi Hausmann mad...@netcom.com
Centigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553
Kids, please don't try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.
John Oxley
|> >The "WIND" made it to videotape VERY FAST. I rented it and was glad I
|> >read the review in Wooden Boat. It's tolerable for $1.00, it would have
|> >been an insult for $10.00. The story line is not believable, the
|> >characterizations are even worse: it's the ultimate super-yuppie
|> >fantasy/nightmare. Some of the photography is great, but much of it
|> >is very confused. The bottom line: THE WIND BLOWS.
|>
|> It sure does. We rented it last night, expecting a lousy plot
|> but some good sailing shots. Some of the plot turns were pretty
|> unintentionally funny, though, like when the sewerman (the guy
|> handling the spinnaker) got a sheet twisted around his leg and
|> was hoisted up with the sail. These guys have been crewing for
|> years and we should expect a goof like that? Or when the Aussies
|> deliberately luffed to tear the "whomper" sail, and they don't
|> call a protest? Where were the accompanying boats during this
|> race, anyway?
|>
|> Best continuity error was at the finish line, where they're tacking
|> upwind, and after crossing the line, the next shot has them flying
|> the spinnaker again. I guess they thought it looked pretty.
|>
I'll agree the story was quite weak and the dialogue wasn't
very gripping however the sailing scenes on the big screen I felt were
worth $8.75. Speaking of the "whomper" sail whats the deal there. I assume
that you can but those but they are called something a tad more familiar
like spinaker
|>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
John P. Oxley ox...@zeus.ee.unb.ca|
_______________________________________|
Does your job pay 64.400 a year with 10,400 tax free expense account, free
life insuance, free air and train travel, an indexed pension and subsidized
restaurants, hair cuts and tailors??? NO, well Canada's UNELECTED Senate does.
* * GET RID OF REAL GOVERNMENT WASTE - ABOLISH THE INEFFECTIVE SENATE * * * *
______________________________________________________________________________
BUNNYRABBITIX(tm)
> I'll agree the story was quite weak and the dialogue wasn't
>very gripping however the sailing scenes on the big screen I felt were
>worth $8.75. Speaking of the "whomper" sail whats the deal there. I assume
>that you can but those but they are called something a tad more familiar
>like spinaker
Weird how if you put up a masthead chute and the other folks just have a
fractional, you go faster than they do! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Tom O'Toole - ecf_...@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer
Homewood Computing Facilities
Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218
>Get that pole up... and back... brings that force vector forward dontcha know
Will Sadler
>|> It sure does. We rented it last night, expecting a lousy plot
>|> but some good sailing shots. Some of the plot turns were pretty
>|> unintentionally funny, though, like when the sewerman (the guy
>|> handling the spinnaker) got a sheet twisted around his leg and
>|> was hoisted up with the sail. These guys have been crewing for
>|> years and we should expect a goof like that? Or when the Aussies
>|> deliberately luffed to tear the "whomper" sail, and they don't
>|> call a protest? Where were the accompanying boats during this
>|> race, anyway?
Ah, but you forget that they had "agreed to sail without the rules"
in that race. But for some reason all of those port/starboard
situations upwind still mattered. Hmmm.
> I'll agree the story was quite weak and the dialogue wasn't
>very gripping however the sailing scenes on the big screen I felt were
>worth $8.75. Speaking of the "whomper" sail whats the deal there. I assume
>that you can but those but they are called something a tad more familiar
>like spinaker
>|>
Interestingly enough, I was reading somewhere recently that the sail
shape of "the Whomper" was originally what people thought would go fast.
In reality a flatter more symmetrical sail that can act as an airfoil
and produce lift just like a mainsail or a jib is faster than a great big
airbrake. But it looked good.
WIND is $19.98 here. I think I'll wait until it gets down to $9.95
before adding it to the collection.
Will
--
***************************************************************************
* _______________\|/_ Will Sadler wi...@cica.indiana.edu *
* Laser 44888 /|\ sad...@indiana.bitnet *
***************************************************************************
"Where's jazz going? I don't know? Maybe it's going to hell.
You can't make anything go anywhere. It just happens." Monk
Greg Bullough
>
>Weird how if you put up a masthead chute and the other folks just have a
>fractional, you go faster than they do! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
To me, that's where the story lost its integrity. For all the tactics, it
all came down to boat speed at that point in the story.
And the idea that in any serious 12-Meter match race anyone is going to
put up a sail that gives them 2 knots over the competition is absurd.
There ARE no 2-knot advantages in properly handled 12-Meters.
On the other hand, the tactician who gets a boat with 2 knots over the
competition into a position where said competition can luff them
effectively is a bit of a twit as well.
I think I would have let them win it in the takcing duel and let realism
win out. If a come-from-behind scene was needed, I think it would have
been generated better via having someone choose the wrong side of the
course, then have the other boat make the same mistake.
Then again, they missed an opportunity by not having the pickup
truck sail itself over a cliff.
Greg
Greg Bullough
>In <1993Jul21....@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> ox...@plato.zeus.ee.unb.ca (John Oxley) writes:
>
>>|> deliberately luffed to tear the "whomper" sail, and they don't
>>|> call a protest? Where were the accompanying boats during this
>>|> race, anyway?
>
>Ah, but you forget that they had "agreed to sail without the rules"
>in that race. But for some reason all of those port/starboard
>situations upwind still mattered. Hmmm.
I thought the same thing, so I re-ran it. I believe that the writer
intended to imply that the Americans ad waived the protest committee
hearing on the sixth race, and retired, thus tying the series. The
implication had been that they would otherwise have attempted to
nullify the Aussie's protest by claiming that the skipper had
deliberately failed to avoid the collision, when he was the most
proximate vessel in a position to do so. By retiring, the USA boat
had agreed to settle the series (which they otherwise would have won)
on the race course rather than in the committee. In reality, a good
race committee still would have heard the issue of collision avoidance.
By the way, I thought the guy who played the OZ skipper really did
a fine job with the character. He's the only one who seemed like
a real racing yachtsman. He didn't overplay it, either.
Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
Greg
BUNNYRABBITIX(tm)
>In article <21JUL199...@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ecf_...@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (BUNNYRABBITIX(tm)) writes:
>>Weird how if you put up a masthead chute and the other folks just have a
>>fractional, you go faster than they do! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
>To me, that's where the story lost its integrity. For all the tactics, it
>all came down to boat speed at that point in the story.
Well there was plenty of crap before that too.
>And the idea that in any serious 12-Meter match race anyone is going to
>put up a sail that gives them 2 knots over the competition is absurd.
>There ARE no 2-knot advantages in properly handled 12-Meters.
I would say, considering a tenth of a knot more boatspeed than your
competition is just about an insurmountable advantage. Oh well, the movie
raised about $1500 for my club's new community sailing center, I shouldn't
complain too much, besides it's too easy a target. It DID make me want to go
out and sail an international 14.
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
Walter Wilson
|> gwa...@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker) writes: >
|> > . . .
|> >is very confused. The bottom line: THE WIND BLOWS.
|>
|> It sure does. We rented it last night, expecting a lousy plot
|>
really stupid, anguishingly bizarre plot was a big distraction.
They could have done something nice ...
The + of renting video is the fast-forward
The - is of course the small fuzzy screen.
I'd give a B+ to the cinematographer, C+ to the editor,
and F to the writers.
--
Walter G. Wilson (wal...@watson.ibm.com)
The opinions expressed here are my own.
"My plans for the year all laid out...
Ah... A dream in Springtime "
-- Shodo (Go Seigen)
John Oxley
are only dealing with a movie. Anyway keep up the good work all you
Siskel and Ebert wanabees.
Reading the credits one of the boats used was Kokoboroua(sp?). If memory serves
the other was Stars and Stripes
Roy Smith
-> Best continuity error was at the finish line, where they're tacking
-> upwind, and after crossing the line, the next shot has them flying
-> the spinnaker again. I guess they thought it looked pretty.
Anybody who has sailed on Long Island Sound would have no trouble
with the concept of an instantaneous 180 degree wind shift.
--
Roy Smith <r...@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Karina Haavik
>
>And the idea that in any serious 12-Meter match race anyone is going to
>put up a sail that gives them 2 knots over the competition is absurd.
>There ARE no 2-knot advantages in properly handled 12-Meters.
Not to mention that the captain didn't even know the name of the sail!
>Then again, they missed an opportunity by not having the pickup
>truck sail itself over a cliff.
So why would a female engineer set that up and not have a way to stop the
truck? I guess it's another example of lacking the coprocessor. ;-)
Karina
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karina Haavik ****** kar...@seas.upenn.edu *** Comet #2970
It looks like a boat. It leaks like a boat. It must be a boat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Kinzer
>all came down to boat speed at that point in the story.
Does anyone have any suggestions for CDs to play while viewing this movie?
I just plan on turning the sound off and fast forwarding through all
parts filmed on land.
-dave :^) :^) :^)
Bruce Munro
>mad...@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>-> Best continuity error was at the finish line, where they're tacking
>-> upwind, and after crossing the line, the next shot has them flying
>-> the spinnaker again. I guess they thought it looked pretty.
>
> Anybody who has sailed on Long Island Sound would have no trouble
>with the concept of an instantaneous 180 degree wind shift.
Or on the Solent. Especially interesting to see is a fleet of boats
running downind straight towards your fleet, when you're on a run yourself!
--
Bruce Munro. <B.O.C...@bnr.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!bruce
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB.
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
David Spencer
>r...@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>>mad...@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>>-> Best continuity error was at the finish line, where they're tacking
>>-> upwind, and after crossing the line, the next shot has them flying
>>-> the spinnaker again. I guess they thought it looked pretty.
>>
>> Anybody who has sailed on Long Island Sound would have no trouble
>>with the concept of an instantaneous 180 degree wind shift.
>Or on the Solent. Especially interesting to see is a fleet of boats
>running downind straight towards your fleet, when you're on a run yourself!
Last Saturday was a particularly fine day for autotacking and general
sailhandling on Eastern LI Sound. There were two strong breezes about
45 degrees apart, fighting each other on 5 to 10 minute cycles. Just
for laughs, there'd be an occasional 180 deg shift, and occasional
fanning downdrafts.
On one beat, we were pointed at the mark for the whole leg, but tacked
a dozen times and hoisted the spin (out the windward side on a reach,
no less) once.
Just the sort of day for a 6-4 220lb halyard gorilla/jibhandler/
foredeckman/windwatcher. Man, was I pooped after 5 hours of
hoist/douse/autogybe/autotack. I went barehanded after chopping a set
of gloves to ribbons. My hands are just about usable again.
Two firsts sure made it worthwhile, though.
--
dhs spe...@panix.com
Will Sadler
>In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
>>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
>The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
>because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
>--
>Al Bowers Alfa
Al is having a little joke here. The 12 meters are not called that
because they have 12 square meters of sail. It is because they have
a 12 meter long mast and a 12 meter beam :-)
The little boats are I-14s They have 14 square meters of sail area, right
Al?
daniel.c.mckibben
I decided to start racing on other peoples boats to learn how to better cruise
on my boat. I'm learning how different the worlds of racing and cruising are.
Sail changes, proximity of other boats, and dollars spent are all more intense
than for cruising. I am really finding it exciting and am learning to
appreciate the danger. In our first race we saw a hard collision just before
the start. In the second race our bow man got caught up in the sheets,
pulled over the life lines, and hit his head on the top sides. He is fine.
Last night's incident surpasses anything I have experienced in terms of
danger and wallet injury. About 7 minutes to the start we are on STARBOARD
with only the main up and quite a bit off the wind. The owner has given
the helm to the sailmaker who is a guest and experienced helmsman. We are
busy getting the #1 set up, when shouting makes us aware of another boat
on a collision course 1 length ahead on PORT. They turn into the wind a little,
then off the wind, then into it again, and it looks like trouble. Finally they
go hard to starboard, as we are and it looks like we might miss, BUT NO! We
hit them just aft of the shrouds and shear off 2 or 3 stancions and the rear
pulpit. The toe rail is severely damaged, and we find out later that the
bow pulpit was pulled up by the force of the lifelines.
My first thoughts were that I will NEVER race my boat (it's my home, and not
very competitive either).
They had the jib up but according to their skipper, his crew was not telling
him what was ahead. I think their boat was a J39, but don't quote me.
We were lucky to hit with the bow which seems very solid on a Peterson 34.
The new paint job had some damage, but it seems like the structure is
fine. It was a great relief to the entire crew knowing that we were
on starboard and not at fault.
I kind of feel like an auto race fan describing a horrible accident. I apologize
for that, but as a novice racer, this aspect of the sport just totally amazes
me. I love the process of getting every possible bit of speed, and the
competition. I will be happy to never witness another collision, although it
seems like they are not infrequent when racing.
Dan McKibber
Crew - Greyhawk
Skipper, Crew, Cook, Deck Hand, Mechanic, Navigator,.... - Wachusett
Greg Bullough
>
>In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
>
>>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
>
>The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
>because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
Thank you, Al. :-)
Okay, let me re-phrase: which of the 12-meters which we know and love
appear in "Wind" under different names?
Greg
Greg Bullough
>competition is just about an insurmountable advantage. Oh well, the movie
>raised about $1500 for my club's new community sailing center, I shouldn't
>complain too much, besides it's too easy a target. It DID make me want to go
>out and sail an international 14.
I think that anything that calls attention to the fact that sailing can be
fun to watch (though not nearly as fun to DO) and lets the public know that
it isn't always like the old Chris Cross song (read: boring/relaxing) is
a Good Thing (TM).
I always figured it would be a winner to rent the movie and serve
bratwurst and saurkraut, christening the event "The Force-5 Wind
Festival."
Greg
Robyn Spady
Last year, while on a cruising vacation in the San Juan Islands, we happen to
be in Friday Harbor the day _Wind_ opened (along with the rest of the country).
I thought it was a rather appropriate place to see it . . . Here are some of
my thoughts . . .
The movie catches more on the big screen . . . rather than on your tv at home.
and 'Yes' . . . there are many inadequacies (what America's Cup skipper would
put up a sail he has never flown before in the final race . . . or even have
a sail on board adding to weight that he's never flown . . . or how about
laying out a 12 meter sail on grass to work on it . . . or . . . Well, I think
you get the idea) . . .
What I truly appreciate about this movie, once I look beyond the weak story
line and inaccurate details, is that so many people I know are now interested
in at least trying sailing! It also tried to demonstrate that not everyone
in the America's Cup is in the position of Morgan Wells (Cliff Robertson) in
the movie or Bill Koch in real life . . . There are a lot of everyday people
out there and therefore is not just a sport for the "Lifestyles of the Rich
and Famous"
Hopefully, this little silly movie (which grows on you) will increase the
interest in this sport . . . Perhaps then our local newspapers (Seattle PI and
The Times) will realize that sailboat racing is not a sport of the rich and
elite . . . and begin to recognize it as a true sport . . . Whidbey Island's
Race Week (sponsored by Yachting magazine) didn't even rate a story at all
last week! All the papers would do is post the results along with other
obscure sports in the back of the sports section . . . However, we know so
much about the Mariners and the Seahawks (the NFL's worst team).
BUNNYRABBITIX(tm)
>I think that anything that calls attention to the fact that sailing can be
>fun to watch (though not nearly as fun to DO) and lets the public know that
>it isn't always like the old Chris Cross song (read: boring/relaxing) is
>a Good Thing (TM).
A couple of years ago at the annapolis boat show they were showing a video
from Ultimate 30's racing in heavy air. The camera shots were from the stern
of the boat. This was exciting footage, I don't care if you are a sailing
enthusiast or not. They should show this stuff on wide world of sports or
something, but it might get in the way of an auto race or something really
important. Besides there might be a GAME on at the same time.
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, wi...@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Will Sadler) says:
>In <22k2tf$s...@news.ysu.edu> ak...@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:
>>In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
>>>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
>>The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
>>because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
>Al is having a little joke here. The 12 meters are not called that
>because they have 12 square meters of sail. It is because they have
>a 12 meter long mast and a 12 meter beam :-)
I thought it was because they weighed the same as 12 cubic meters of water.
No?
:-) Actually, that's only about _half_ of a 12 meter's displacement...
Apologies to Greg for having a bit of fun at his expense. Greg's question
was ambiguously worded, so I took it the `wrong' way, intentionally. :-)
>The little boats are I-14s They have 14 square meters of sail area, right
>Al?
:-)
Actually, I think the little boats are Aussie 14 Foot Dinghies. I seem to
recall hearing somewhere (the Laser mailing list?) that all the small boat
sailing was done in Australia, and the actors were taught on Lasers and
eventually moved up to the 14 footers. If the sailing was in Australia,
then the boats would, for a near certainty, be Aussie 14's, as they don't
recognize the I 14s as we do and as in Europe. The differences between the
two classes are very subtle, but the give-away is that I 14s do not allow
anything that resembles a deck, whereas the 14 Foot Dinks allow small decks
for mast step support. In most other critical dimensions, they are _very_
close, sail area, loa, lwl, beam, displacement. In fact, it should be
possible to build _one_ boat that would satisfy both sets of rules, though
you'd not be competitive in either class. The 14 foot guys and the I14
folks are talking about merging the two classes, and there is agreement in
most areas, the disagreement is in details (like the deck issue).
Apologies for the confusion I may have caused. Well, maybe not... :-)
David W. Levine
(daniel.c.mckibben) writes:
|>
[ Description of collision deleted]
|>
|> I kind of feel like an auto race fan describing a horrible accident.
I apologize
|> for that, but as a novice racer, this aspect of the sport just
totally amazes
|> me. I love the process of getting every possible bit of speed, and the
|> competition. I will be happy to never witness another collision,
although it
|> seems like they are not infrequent when racing.
|>
|>
|> Dan McKibber
|> Crew - Greyhawk
|> Skipper, Crew, Cook, Deck Hand, Mechanic, Navigator,.... - Wachusett
It's interesting. In five seasons of being on the water most of each
season, we've seen very little of that. It's not that it doesn't happen,
but we've managed to avoid being in the middle of too much of it.
I will observe that an awful lot of people who race don't do the
"Before the start" drill very well. Consider the diagram below
| (Wind)
V
Pin
//////////+--------------------+ Boat \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
//////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
///E///////////////////B\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\A\\\\\\\\\\\C\\\\
///////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
//////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\D\\\\\\\\\F
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
In a typical start, the boats who are "on final" will be mostly playing
with each other working towards being near A, with good speed just
before the start. Some people will play near E, especially with a
favored end at the pin. Lots of folks will run along the line
from A to E at some point in the 5-10 minute before the start range
(Ideally, they do it before the first classes prep) An awful lot of
people will be circling from A -> C -> D - trying to get into the cycle so
that they will approach A from near C, with good speed. Some folks would
rather come in from D, so they circle between D and F, with the same goal
Folks who are early, or think the line is pin favored, will show up at A
early, run the line towards B... The point is nobody has any business
being in the shaded area, unless they are nearing their start. Nobody has
any business being there unless they have a bow lookout and are watching like
mad (We generally have a bow lookout, and several people in the cockpit
watching what all the boats around us are doing) If you want to put a jib up,
simply sail without a lookout, or whatever, get well below the line, or outside
of the shaded zone to one side of the course or the other (If you want to watch
divisions ahead of you start, beyond and below the line near the pin is fine)
A lot of race circulars explicitly prohibit anyone from being in the
starting area before thier preperatory signal. That's not a bad rule.
Almost every race, tho, there's a division 6 boat flopping around near A
with no jib up in the middle of division 2's start! You don't want to be
that boat. You will be yelled at, often not politely.
I'd say the bottom line is that although it looks like total chaos, most people
out there who are near a start are going to be doing predictable things, and
they should be the only ones in the approach zones. Anyone who is in the
approach
zones, ought to be fully aware. It is really unacceptable to not have people
looking, and likewise, even tho you may be the right of way boat, you really
need to have a couple of sets of eyes wide open too, since people aren't
perfect.
David W. Levine -- d...@watson.ibm.com -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
-- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. --
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana
John Oxley
|> In <22k2tf$s...@news.ysu.edu> ak...@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:
|>
|> >In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
|>
|> >>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
|>
|> >The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
|> >because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
|>
|> >--
|> >Al Bowers Alfa
|>
|> Al is having a little joke here. The 12 meters are not called that
|> because they have 12 square meters of sail. It is because they have
|> a 12 meter long mast and a 12 meter beam :-)
|>
|> The little boats are I-14s They have 14 square meters of sail area, right
|> Al?
|>
|> Will
|>
|> --
can not exceed 12 metres. That is why there can be many more pigmies
on a crew than Germans for example. That is why you never see basketball
players on the crew as the crew would then be too small to handle the
boat.
JUSTIN PETER FINNEGAN
s:
While i liked the movie as a movie there were some things that just made
me crack up. Anyone remember the part about "Waving the Rules." At the
America's Cup. If anyone has ever been to a regatta where they "Waved the
rule" please tell me because i sure haven't.
On top of being a sailor i am also a climber. I know this doesn't have
anything to do with this newsgroup but.... In the movie Cliffhanger there
are numerous events that just do no happen in real life. like a shackle
breaking and a woman falling to her death. Like in wind the producers
decided to forgo reality in order to make a more exciting movie..
Wind and Cliffhanger are not the only examples of this..
I wish it wasn't the case but it is so oh well.........
-Justin
L.U.S.T
(Lehigh U. Sailing Team)
Graeme Robertson
>In article <will.743351015@ogre>, wi...@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Will Sadler) writes:
>|> In <22k2tf$s...@news.ysu.edu> ak...@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:
>|>
>|> >In a previous article, gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) says:
>|>
>|> >>Which boats are the 12-Meters in the movie, by the way?
>|>
>|> >The little two person dinghies are the 12 meters. They are called that,
>|> >because that is the sail area, 12 square meters.
>|>
>|> >--
>|> >Al Bowers Alfa
>|>
>|> Al is having a little joke here. The 12 meters are not called that
>|> because they have 12 square meters of sail. It is because they have
>|> a 12 meter long mast and a 12 meter beam :-)
>|>
>|> The little boats are I-14s They have 14 square meters of sail area, right
>|> Al?
>|>
>|> Will
>|>
>|> --
> WRONG, The length of the crew laying on the ground head to foot
>can not exceed 12 metres. That is why there can be many more pigmies
>on a crew than Germans for example. That is why you never see basketball
>players on the crew as the crew would then be too small to handle the
>boat.
>
Nope, It is the length of the helmsmans... No this is a family show
I should not say that here!
Scamp
A former 12metre helmsman :-)
>--
>______________________________________________________________________________
>John P. Oxley ox...@zeus.ee.unb.ca|
>_______________________________________|
>Does your job pay 64.400 a year with 10,400 tax free expense account, free
>life insuance, free air and train travel, an indexed pension and subsidized
>restaurants, hair cuts and tailors??? NO, well Canada's UNELECTED Senate does.
>* * GET RID OF REAL GOVERNMENT WASTE - ABOLISH THE INEFFECTIVE SENATE * * * *
>______________________________________________________________________________
--
Graeme Robertson | Ocean Yachtsman (in my spare time)
sc...@fujitsu.co.nz | Fujitsu New Zealand Ltd (Wellington)
+64 4 495-0700 voice | +64 4 495-0732 fax
I sail a Elliot 44 because its dry, goes fast and heaps of fun!
Robert B. Williams
Starboard, if she had the oppurtunity to avoid collision and did not, she
may also be found at fault. I think the penalty is usually DSQ.
It is not clear to me that your boat had an oppurtunity to avoid the
collision, but that hasn't stopped juries before.
In summary, you are better off taking evasive action and protesting, (at
most loose some time) than hitting the offending boat (certainly loose time,
potential injury, $$, DSQ).
--
Robert Williams rob...@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com 503-750-2818
HP in Corvallis Oregon
goldstein,marvin
> Like in wind the producers
> decided to forgo reality in order to make a more exciting movie..
>
> Wind and Cliffhanger are not the only examples of this..
>
> I wish it wasn't the case but it is so oh well.........
>
>
> -Justin
> L.U.S.T
For those of you who must always have brutal honesty in their leisure
activities, may I suggest that you stick to National Geographic specials for
your films, don't read novels, and never, never listen to fishermen or sailors.
Marv
will_howard
jp...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JUSTIN PETER FINNEGAN) writes:
>
> While i liked the movie as a movie there were some things that just
made
> me crack up. Anyone remember the part about "Waving the Rules." At
the
> America's Cup. If anyone has ever been to a regatta where they "Waved
the
> rule" please tell me because i sure haven't.
>
> On top of being a sailor i am also a climber. I know this doesn't
have
> anything to do with this newsgroup but.... In the movie Cliffhanger
there
> are numerous events that just do no happen in real life. like a
shackle
> breaking and a woman falling to her death. Like in wind the producers
> decided to forgo reality in order to make a more exciting movie..
>
> Wind and Cliffhanger are not the only examples of this..
If you like suspending disbelief you don't have to go to the movies, just
hang around the Yacht Club bar after the race and listen to the stories
;-)
-Will.
P.S. Or watch any White House press conference.
*********************************************
* William R. Howard who...@lamont.ldeo.columbia.edu
* Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
* Palisades, NY 10964 (914) 365-8637
*********************************************
Dave Kinzer
>For those of you who must always have brutal honesty in their leisure
>activities, may I suggest that you stick to National Geographic specials for
>your films, don't read novels, and never, never listen to fishermen or sailors.
The danger in this is that we now live in a world of non-participants,
who get all their information from films like these. This information
goes in as FACTS to them, as there is no contradictory experience or
information being presented. This biases their opinions, actions, and
worse, voting.
Don't be suprised if, for example, rock climbing is outlawed since
the equipment always breaks and allows people to plunge to their
deaths. Or, more appropriate to this group, sailing races are outlawed
since the boats seem to crash into one another in a manner that people
are likely to get hurt or killed, or at the very least require an
expensive Coast Guard rescue. Of course, the voters will be outlawing
these for your own good, you know.
-dave (who enjoys a good flick to get away from it all too.)
Walter Wilson
|> In article <gregCAI...@netcom.com> gr...@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
|> >
|>
|> >Then again, they missed an opportunity by not having the pickup
|> >truck sail itself over a cliff.
|>
|> So why would a female engineer set that up and not have a way to stop the
|> truck? I guess it's another example of lacking the coprocessor. ;-)
|>
|> Karina
My interpretation was that the run-away truck was supposed to emphasize
that the sail was successful beyond her expectations. In the early part
of the run, she could run along beside the truck -- so she could have gotten
in thecab, etc.
Running it over a cliff would have put a negative association with the sail,
which for artistic reasons you don't want.
I don't understand "lacking the coprocessor", but in my mind, also, the
scene brought up thoughts about her incompetence as an engineer. This, coupled
with the fact that she was the only one who knew how to use a sewing machine,
are 2 of the "stereotype" messages about women in the film. This would not be
surprising, or remarkable, except for the PC elements (first woman tactician...)
If I were director, I would have had her jump on the sideboard of the truck and
grab the wheel through the window (associate with tiller) and end with a shot of
the wind blowing her hair to emphasize the speed. (even though we sailors know
that when running you don't feel ANY wind -- there were so many other sailing
oddities that this one could easily be overlooked).
Walter Wilson
|> fine. It was a great relief to the entire crew knowing that we were
|> on starboard and not at fault.
|>
Except that every boat has the responsibility to avoid a collision.
When you saw that they were dithering, coming up or tacking or even falling off to
go behind them, might have avoided the collision.
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, ak...@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) says:
>Actually, I think the little boats are Aussie 14 Foot Dinghies. I seem to
>recall hearing somewhere (the Laser mailing list?) that all the small boat
>sailing was done in Australia, and the actors were taught on Lasers and
>eventually moved up to the 14 footers. If the sailing was in Australia,
>then the boats would, for a near certainty, be Aussie 14's, as they don't
>recognize the I 14s as we do and as in Europe. The differences between the
>two classes are very subtle, but the give-away is that I 14s do not allow
>anything that resembles a deck, whereas the 14 Foot Dinks allow small decks
>for mast step support. In most other critical dimensions, they are _very_
>close, sail area, loa, lwl, beam, displacement. In fact, it should be
>possible to build _one_ boat that would satisfy both sets of rules, though
>you'd not be competitive in either class. The 14 foot guys and the I14
>folks are talking about merging the two classes, and there is agreement in
>most areas, the disagreement is in details (like the deck issue).
Sorry, a bit of a screw-up there. The decks were _not_ the issue. This is
exerpted from Australian Sailing magazine, Sept 1990, Pg 74 "World
amalgamation closer for 14-footers":
"Particularly well-sailed and fast downwind the Int 14s at the last world
championship suffered upwind because of class rules which resulted in a
squat rig, long boom and small J measurement.
The Australian boats had the edge to windward with their taller rigs, high
aspect ratio mainsails, and reduced overlap headsails achieved by setting
the jib stay out on the retracting spinaker pole sprit."
The two International 14 rules in question are:
"Length: 14'-0" maximum, excluding _RUDDER FITTINGS_."
"Mast Height: Maximum 22'-6" above gunwales."
The LOA rule prevents the jib tack from moving out onto a bow sprit (though
there was a campaign to allow I 14s to move forward of the stem 300mm, or
about 12 inches). And typical Aussie and NZ masts were on the order of
25-27 feet.
Albion H. Bowers
In a previous article, kin...@dtsdev0.sps.mot.com (Dave Kinzer) says:
>In article <1993Jul23.1...@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mgs...@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin) writes:
>>For those of you who must always have brutal honesty in their leisure
>>activities, may I suggest that you stick to National Geographic specials for
>>your films, don't read novels, and never, never listen to fishermen or sailors.
> The danger in this is that we now live in a world of non-participants,
>who get all their information from films like these. This information
>goes in as FACTS to them, as there is no contradictory experience or
>information being presented. This biases their opinions, actions, and
>worse, voting.
Correct. Remember last year when Kevin Costner played an investigator into
the Kennedy assasination? Shortly after the show became wildly sucessful,
the producers released a `documentary' packet of `factual information' for
use in schools. Now we have a bunch of high school kids in the Lost
Angeles area that think there was a CIA cover-up of the Kennedy
assasination...
Mark Armstrong soft
>Except that every boat has the responsibility to avoid a collision.
>When you saw that they were dithering, coming up or tacking or even falling off to
>go behind them, might have avoided the collision.
>
>--
This happen to us a few years ago. At the finish line we had a boat
on the port a starboard sides. Another boat tack right in front of
us, losing boat speed. We couldn't turn so we rammed the boat in front.
We lost the protest, the ruling was we didn't do enough to "avoid a
collision"
______________________________________________________________
Mark Armstrong
m...@raster.Kodak.COM
______________________________________________________________
Craig Levin
(David W. Levine) writes:
> I will observe that an awful lot of people who race don't do the
> "Before the start" drill very well. Consider the diagram below
>
> | (Wind)
> V
>
> Pin
> //////////+--------------------+ Boat \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> //////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> ///E///////////////////B\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\A\\\\\\\\\\\C\\\\
> ///////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> //////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\D\\\\\\\\\F
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
You left out those of us that are at E and move towards A looking for
the perfect hole with 15 seconds to go.
Greg Brail
>Actually, I think the little boats are Aussie 14 Foot Dinghies. I seem to
>recall hearing somewhere (the Laser mailing list?) that all the small boat
>sailing was done in Australia, and the actors were taught on Lasers and
>eventually moved up to the 14 footers.
In the movie, the race was supposed to be in Newport, RI. But there
were these big concrete buildings in the background of a few scenes
that don't look like anything I've seen in Newport.
I also thought there were actual Australian 14 sailors in the movie.
The credits listed a lot of "sailing doubles."
greg
--
Greg Brail ------------------ Citibank -------------------- g...@fig.citib.com
Brian Smith
details--this was a FILM, and they are intended to make money from the
biggest possible audience. What looks good is what counts. Heroics
and noble gestures are more important than reality.
I saw a film many (too many) years ago about a tugboat crew. They
arrived at the listing (the list is important) tanker in a gale. It
had no crew on board. The hero managed to leap onto the tanker (I
told you the list was important), which was too high for anyone else,
carrying a messenger line. He then used the messenger to haul across
from the tug (which was now a good hundred yards away) a towing hawser
that was several inches in diameter. He managed to single-handedly
pass it through the hawswpipe in the bows, heave it, on his shoulder,
over to the bitts and make it fast. I suppose he sweated some, but if
so it was washed off by the green water (it was a black and white
movie) coming over the bows. He was inundated a few times but somehow
managed to struggle to his feet without losing the hawser.
I thought it was pretty stupid, but my friends all thought it was
normal. Don't forget, even Shakespeare wrote strictly for the box
office.
(Those particular friends were of the non-sailing variety; you know,
the kind that think ships all anchor at night and only the captain ever
steers :-)
B.S!
goldstein,marvin
>
> Don't be suprised if, for example, rock climbing is outlawed since
>the equipment always breaks and allows people to plunge to their
>deaths. Or, more appropriate to this group, sailing races are outlawed
>since the boats seem to crash into one another in a manner that people
>are likely to get hurt or killed, or at the very least require an
>expensive Coast Guard rescue. Of course, the voters will be outlawing
>these for your own good, you know.
Funny, this hasn't worked to outlaw guns. :)
Marv
David W. Levine
Craig correctly points out that I skipped the folks who are port tack
approaching
at 15 seconds to the gun, and tacking into a hole on the line at the
last minute.
Such folks exist, especially in small boat fleets. It's a great
technique if you're
in a class of boat which can accelerate and manuever quickly enough to make it
work (I don't recommend it for NY-36's If we aren't moving near full speed at
30 seconds to go, we're in a world of pain. (unless the entire starting
clump at
the line has slowed, which does happen)
Port tack approaches and tacks are not too hard to predict, and for the boats
approaching on Starboard to start, the merely need to yell at them and possibly
dive a bit to protect holes they want to use.
Andy Harrop
Al Bowers is corect in identifing the 14 footers as Aussi rule boats for the reasons he gave.
To follow up on the merger issue:
The I 14 class has (still) to decide on a merger with the aussi boats. Yes they
are similar but when one class has over 200 active racers in europe US and
Canada and the other less than 50 in Aussi a certain amount on inertia is
created.
eg Aussi rules boats weigh 150lbs Vs I14 at 200lbs (190 after jan 1994)
All the I14's would have to change at large expense.
I digress from the point.
Anyway. the only way to sail is twin wire whether it be Aussi or International
Regards
Andy Harrop. (publicity officer UK I14 class Assoc)
John Oxley
the cup. They Mathew Modine is called out of retirement to brave the cold
and snow and icebergs to win it back. This time they do all there work in the
frozen tundra of Northern Alaska
Walter Wilson
|> Hey I just heard they have started filming Wind II. It is about Iceland winning
(Sorry, I hadn't heard this yet on the forum and couldn't resist)
Nick Lewins
In article r...@news.ysu.edu, ak...@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:
>
>In a previous article, wi...@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Will Sadler) says:
>>
>>The little boats are I-14s They have 14 square meters of sail area, right
>>Al?
>
>
>recall hearing somewhere (the Laser mailing list?) that all the small boat
>sailing was done in Australia, and the actors were taught on Lasers and
>eventually moved up to the 14 footers.
Yeah, I made some money that summer in Perth by renting my Laser to the film
people. In fact, I took Jennifer Beals out on it one day in an attempt to
teach her something about sailing. She wasn't very keen about the whole idea
of actually _sailing_, and she managed to capsize us when I got her to take the
tiller. After that she just wanted to go home!
Matt Modine, however, really enjoyed himself and was out sailing by himself after
a short while.
>If the sailing was in Australia,
>then the boats would, for a near certainty, be Aussie 14's, as they don't
>recognize the I 14s as we do and as in Europe
That's probably true. I havn't seen the movie yet (it got canned by the critics
here and only lasted about a fortnight at the cinemas), but it sounds like the
small boats were (Australian) 14-footers and the footage was shot on the Swan
river in front of the Perth skyline.
Nick.