29Ft. SeaRay Sundancer Vs Regal 29Ft. Commandor
chippy
anyone know what the difference is if any, and what they are
between a single and twin engines in a 29ft boat
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Russ Glindmeier, CFP
chippy wrote in message <08cd77b8...@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>...
The last Regal 292 Commodore I was on was a 1997 model, so I doubt I could
be of much help there. However, I currently own a 1999 Sea Ray 290
Sundancer, which has no significant changes for 2000. If there is any
specific information you'd like regarding the 290DA, let me know.
Russ
George Jefferson
:Would like any help in decieding hich is a better buy. And does
:anyone know what the difference is if any, and what they are
:between a single and twin engines in a 29ft boat
do they even put a single in a 29?
--
george jefferson : geo...@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
to reply simply press "r"
-- I hate editing addresses more than I hate the spam!
Phoenix
As a new owner of a SeaRay did you find their prices to be out of line with
the Regal and other boats of similar quality?
--
Jim
" George Jefferson " <geo...@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:879gkf$ho5$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
Russ Glindmeier, CFP
Phoenix wrote in message ...
>Russ,
>As a new owner of a SeaRay did you find their prices to be out of line with
>the Regal and other boats of similar quality?
>
This is not an easy question to answer. I'd have to start out by saying
that in the little community in which I live, the fifth largest metropolitan
area in the US, we have only a handful of boat dealers offering a very
limited selection of manufacturers. So any answer I offer would be
constrained by limited shopping opportunities available to me. Also, when I
bought the 290, I currently owned a Sea Ray 270DA, and had previously owned
a Sea Ray 210 cuddy, so I was pretty familiar with the line. The 290 was
offered to me at an end of model year closeout special discount by a client
that owns a Sea Ray dealership out of state. I was able to buy it for about
$20k less than the local dealer wanted for the exact same boat. Not a lot
of shopping went in to that purchase. Other boats owned previously were a
25' Four Winns cruiser and a 20' Wellcraft Cuddy, so I've also experienced a
couple of other brands besides Sea Ray. All of these boats were purchased
new or near new (less than 30 hours.) All the boats were purchased through
local dealers, except for the 290 as described above and the Wellcraft,
which was ordered new out of the Los Angeles boat show in 1979. Other
brands that I looked at over the years while shopping for the previous
mentioned boats include (in no particular order):
Rinker
Chaparral
Formula
Maxum
Regal
Bayliner
Donzi
Cobalt
Mariah
I passed on some the above boats based on the boats themselves, and some I
passed on because the dealership seemed to be a shaky operation with
questionable longevity. Certainly the Sea Ray product commanded a premium
price over many of the above listed boats, but not all. Formula and Cobalt
were consistently priced above the Sea Ray and understandably so. Rinker,
Maxum, Bayliner, Wellcraft and Four Winns were consistently priced below the
Sea Ray, and understandably so. The pricing demarcation lines were less
clear between the Sea Rays and Chaparrals, Regals, Mariahs, and Donzis, as I
recall. Sea Ray has considerable market share in my area, and I do believe
that helps come resale time and tends to help justify any premium paid.
People buying used tend to feel more comfortable with a brand name that they
can easily recognize.
At this stage of my boating life, I'm not looking for a boat that will carry
me across the Gulf Stream on a bad weather day or will last me twenty years.
I'm looking for a boat that has the best layout for its size, has good
dealer support, is of slightly better than average quality, and will be easy
to sell when I'm ready for the next step. All of my choices to date seem to
have hit those benchmarks pretty well. I've enjoyed each of them, never had
to threaten to sue anybody over service issues, and was able to sell each of
them on my own with little difficulty and modest depreciation, despite each
of them being on a painted trailer. I've never had to trade in any of my
boats.
What makes your question especially difficult for me to answer, is that I
never actually paid a typical retail price for any of my three Sea Rays.
The 210 cuddy was a new left over 1987 model that the dealer was getting
ready to drag down to the January 1988 boat show in the next couple of days.
I was able to buy it for considerably less than it would have sold for
exactly one year earlier at the 1987 boat show. The 1997 270DA, was a
consignment boat at the dealership. It was a year old but only had nine
hours on the engine. The previous owner had been on it six times. I just
plain stole that one from a highly motivated seller. It was just dumb luck
that I was able to stumble upon it when I did. The 290 purchase I've
already described. When I bought the Four Winns 258, it was a current model
year trade in with low hours that the previous owner owned for 90 days and
then traded up. Before I learned of the trade in, I was shopping that boat
new against the Sea Ray 250DA. In that case, I liked the layout of the Four
Winns better than the Sea Ray and would not have paid the premium price for
the Sea Ray, even though it was obviously of better build quality. The fact
that I was able to save money from a new version by purchasing the trade in
swung the deal even harder toward the Four Winns.
I guess the bottom line to this very long-winded reply is to shop smart and
buy what you like.
Russ
Jeff C
<ru...@att.net> wrote:
>I guess the bottom line to this very long-winded reply is to shop smart and
>buy what you like.
A fine summary, indeed.
--
Jeff C
Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.
Please respond in Usenet.
Phoenix
Your response on pricing is similar to what I have seen in Atlanta. SeaRay
took a lot of heat in the 80's, guilt by association with Bayliner, but I
have always thought them to be a good boat that was priced competitive in
the middle tier.
--
Jim
"Russ Glindmeier, CFP" <ru...@att.net> wrote in message
news:tu_l4.53$Th7....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Bob W
>
...
> When I bought the Four Winns 258, it was a current model
> year trade in with low hours that the previous owner owned for 90 days
and
> then traded up.
Boy, some people must have money to burn. Not only did the previous
owner take a big hit on depreciation of his boat after barely using it,
then he turns around and trades up so that he gets to lose an even
larger amount to depreciation once he signs the paper on his new one. I
probably could have just about paid for my current (10 YO) boat with
just what he lost in depreciation on his two new ones.
Bob W
Russ Glindmeier, CFP
Jerry Hahn wrote in message ...
>Not knowledgable about these types of boat/power packages, what kind of
>performance can you get with twin 4.3's on a 29' cruiser?
>Jerry
>
Well, my twin 260 hp 5.7's will push me to 41.5 mph as measured by GPS.
This is with 1.62:1 Alphas swinging 17" pitch stainless Mirage II's. The
engines are turning 4500-4600 RPM at WOT, and with 45 hours on them,
probably still have a little loosening up to do. She's propped just about
perfect for the altitude at my home lake of 1700 feet above sea level.
Probably slightly under propped for sea level. My boat has the bottom
painted and has all the crap on board for near live aboard status. Based on
this, I would guess the carbed 4.3's at 190 hp ea. to offer top speed in the
30 mph range and the EFI versions at 210 ea at about 35 mph.
In my opinion, the 4.3's would be a poor choice in this boat. The boat
tends to be a bit heavy in the butt, especially with the optional genset
back there. Mine feels most comfortable at about a 30 mph cruise, which for
me is about 3400-3500 rpm. If you try to cruise at about 25 mph she starts
to want to squat and you need to use tabs and trim the drives in, sort of
counter-productive in my opinion. My concern is that you would have to work
the 4.3's too hard to get that 30 mph cruise. You would save some weight in
the stern with the V-6's but not all that much. Plus, the twin 350's sound
great.
Russ
Russ
matthew.davis
service/support from the manufacturer and not just the product.
Those who have a superior product have great service and will
bend over and kiss your ass to keep you as a customer. I can
tell you from experience that Regal isn't one of those
organizations. I purchased a 2960 in early January and I have
had every single problem in the book from engine failure to
electrical to more electrical, and the manufacturer couldn't
give a shit less. The dealer was a little bit better, but their
solution was to attempt to 'bait and switch' me to a bigger boat
to solve all my problems. I would say more, but I'm considering
a lawsuit once I finish researching what my rights are, if any.
Check dontbuyaregalboat.com in late March for some kind of
outcome.
Phoenix
As a former owner of a Regal 256, I am surprised that you are having
problems with Regal Marine. The pride themselves on being very customer
oriented. Have you talked to Regal directly? Have you sent them a letter
reviewing the problems and what action you would like them to take to
resolve those problems? If you have done that already, copy the CEO of
Regal, Paul Kuck, and ask him to look into the matter for you. They are a
family operated business who strives to make a quality product and give
superior service. Like all manufacturers they depend upon the dealer to
resolve most of the problems, which unfortunately on new boats are more than
we are used to on cars.
I would use the courts as a last resort, but I would first give Regal a
chance to resolve all problems first. The best way is to put in writing
what is wrong, what you want done to correct these problems. You may want
to have an uninterested party review your letter to make sure the tone is
not inflammatory and that your requests are reasonable.
--
Jim
"matthew.davis" <matthew.da...@ustgrp.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:05f9083d...@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
Larry Weiss
though, that after my story appeared in this newsgroup (they actually
challenged me to post it!), they came around and settled (enough to get
me to settle, not enough to make me happy).
I know they are owned by a deeply religious family, and I somehow
believe that, in their heart of hearts, they believe they do the "right"
thing for their customers. However, after all the time that has past I
still feel shocked and angry over their treatment of me and my problems,
and I still continue to hear occasional negative customer service
stories. It also frustrates me because I have a passion for their 32
footer. I would have bought one but for my past experience.
Matthew - email me if you want some details or want to compare notes.
(I'm sure the rest of the ng is bored with my story already).
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
PS: OTOH - I know little of Sea Ray's customer service reputation. Are
they, or any manufacturer, really any better?
Ed
Nothing but annoyances during the warranty. All fixed with no hassle.
The factory has been very helpful and responsive whenever I've called
or emailed.
-Ed G.
On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:17:44 GMT, Larry Weiss <lil...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
-Ed G
well...@my-deja.com
"Russ Glindmeier, CFP" <ru...@att.net> wrote:
>
> Jerry Hahn wrote in message ...
> >Not knowledgable about these types of boat/power packages, what kind
of
> >performance can you get with twin 4.3's on a 29' cruiser?
> >Jerry
> >
>
> In my opinion, the 4.3's would be a poor choice in this boat. The
boat
> tends to be a bit heavy in the butt, especially with the optional
genset
> back there. Mine feels most comfortable at about a 30 mph cruise,
which for
> me is about 3400-3500 rpm. If you try to cruise at about 25 mph she
starts
> to want to squat and you need to use tabs and trim the drives in, sort
of
> counter-productive in my opinion. My concern is that you would have
to work
> the 4.3's too hard to get that 30 mph cruise. You would save some
weight in
> the stern with the V-6's but not all that much. Plus, the twin 350's
sound
> great.
>
> Russ
>
I would second this opinion, I have a 26+' Sea Ray with 2' less beam
than the 29' with twin 4.3's. It performs OK with this boat, and
cruising speed is ~23mph @32k rpm. Adding the extra beam, length and
weight of a 29 would be pretty marginal for these motors I think.
Ray
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