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Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
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Wayne.B
Feb 1, 2012, 1:25:59 PM2/1/12
to
Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
If someone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said:
"Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
that.
Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
it is now.
In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
<http://seekingalpha.com/article/326572-2-energy-markets-and-their-implications-for-investors>
In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
in that article.
If someone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said:
"Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
that.
Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
it is now.
In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
<http://seekingalpha.com/article/326572-2-energy-markets-and-their-implications-for-investors>
In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
in that article.
Message has been deleted
iBoaterer
Feb 1, 2012, 3:10:08 PM2/1/12
to
In article <8f1ji7tc5or5147i5...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
> I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
In my city, they are changing busses over to natural gas.
gfre...@aol.com says...
> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
In my city, they are changing busses over to natural gas.
Wayne.B
Feb 1, 2012, 5:30:06 PM2/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:43:07 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
><waynebatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
><waynebatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
>works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
>propane is better, higher energy density.
>
>I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
>EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
>software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
>I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
===
>works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
>propane is better, higher energy density.
>
>I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
>EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
>software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
>I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
We had a family friend back in the 60s who worked in the oil fields of
western Kansas. Propane for him was free for the asking since a lot
of it just got flared off as a nuisance. He and is friends did a lot
of shade tree gasoline to propane conversions.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Feb 1, 2012, 9:32:54 PM2/1/12
to
Wayne.B wrote:
> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
Safety issues? Make sure you ventilate the bilge before starting.
> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Only through suffering comes wisdom. -- Zeus
Message has been deleted
Wayne.B
Feb 1, 2012, 10:21:22 PM2/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:32:54 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>Wayne.B wrote:
>
>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
>Safety issues? Make sure you ventilate the bilge before starting.
---
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>Wayne.B wrote:
>
>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
>Safety issues? Make sure you ventilate the bilge before starting.
It turns out that natural gas is lighter than air which makes it a
great deal safer than propane on a boat. I still think it will be a
long time, if ever, before we see it as a propulsion fuel on
recreational boats.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
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iBoaterer
Feb 2, 2012, 9:07:38 AM2/2/12
to
In article <mpeji7t7am86t88kv...@4ax.com>,
waynebatr...@hotmail.com says...
Look at the thousands of fork trucks that were easily converted to use
propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
waynebatr...@hotmail.com says...
propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
X ` Man
Feb 2, 2012, 10:15:08 AM2/2/12
to
On 2/1/12 9:32 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> Wayne.B wrote:
>
>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
> Safety issues? Make sure you ventilate the bilge before starting.
>
If you have enclosed inboard engines, you should be doing that no matter
> Wayne.B wrote:
>
>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
> Safety issues? Make sure you ventilate the bilge before starting.
>
what combustible fuel you use.
I don't see it happening for pleasure boats. Who is going to pay for the
on-site storage and pumping facilities at most marinas or clubs? And the
fleets of delivery trucks? We don't have money for significant
infrastructure improvements, such as pipelines to service stations or
marinas, so the gas will have to be trucked.
Message has been deleted
X ` Man
Feb 2, 2012, 12:59:23 PM2/2/12
to
On 2/2/12 12:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
iBoaterer
Feb 2, 2012, 1:04:25 PM2/2/12
to
In article <9ovnjt...@mid.individual.net>, ev...@conservatrash.com
says...
Why would the cost of on-site storage and pumping be any more for LNG
than gasoline? As far as pipelines, again, same said of gasoline. Add to
the fact that LNG is a LOT cheaper, you'd actually have savings.
says...
than gasoline? As far as pipelines, again, same said of gasoline. Add to
the fact that LNG is a LOT cheaper, you'd actually have savings.
iBoaterer
Feb 2, 2012, 1:11:47 PM2/2/12
to
In article <pqili7hc90jqle48q...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
county vehicles, including smallish sedans have been converted. You are
confusing compressed natural gas with liquified natural gas. LNG is
easily transported via pipeline, or truck or vehicle. It has a energy
density of 2.4 times that of CNG or 60% of diesel fuel. Once it is
delivered, it is re-gasified. My natural gas line to my house surely
isn't 2600 PSI!
gfre...@aol.com says...
> The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
Seems to be working fantastically around here, almost all city and
> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
county vehicles, including smallish sedans have been converted. You are
confusing compressed natural gas with liquified natural gas. LNG is
easily transported via pipeline, or truck or vehicle. It has a energy
density of 2.4 times that of CNG or 60% of diesel fuel. Once it is
delivered, it is re-gasified. My natural gas line to my house surely
isn't 2600 PSI!
JustWait
Feb 2, 2012, 1:20:51 PM2/2/12
to
iBoaterer
Feb 2, 2012, 1:57:24 PM2/2/12
to
In article <ksedndsczo5hU7fS...@earthlink.com>, dump-on-
conser...@anywhere-you-can.com says...
Liquid, and no.
conser...@anywhere-you-can.com says...
iBoaterer
Feb 2, 2012, 1:57:36 PM2/2/12
to
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
X ` Man
Feb 2, 2012, 5:04:38 PM2/2/12
to
On 2/2/12 4:56 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> Propane is liquid in the tank, pretty much like the stuff you see in a
> cigarette lighter.
I'll have to talk to the delivery guy. I've never actually watched him
top off the tank. I'm sure you're right, though.
> cigarette lighter.
I'll have to talk to the delivery guy. I've never actually watched him
top off the tank. I'm sure you're right, though.
Wayne.B
Feb 2, 2012, 5:49:54 PM2/2/12
to
>>> Look at the thousands of fork trucks that were easily converted to use
>>> propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
>>
>> The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
>> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
>> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
>> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
>> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
>
>
>I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
>buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
>and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
===
>>> propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
>>
>> The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
>> like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
>> You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
>> gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
>> compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
>
>
>I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
>buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
>and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
Propane is always transported and stored in liquid form as far as I
know.
Wayne.B
Feb 2, 2012, 5:54:44 PM2/2/12
to
On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:11:47 -0500, iBoaterer <bl...@dah.net> wrote:
>My natural gas line to my house surely
>isn't 2600 PSI!
===
>My natural gas line to my house surely
>isn't 2600 PSI!
No it's not but the the gas line to your house is not delivering
liquified natural gas. LNG has to be stored and transported at very
high pressures and/or very low temperatures just like liquid nitrogen.
Message has been deleted
Earl
Feb 2, 2012, 7:43:10 PM2/2/12
to
Wayne.B
Feb 2, 2012, 7:59:47 PM2/2/12
to
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:58:49 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:04:38 -0500, X ` Man
>I have had several long talks to my gas supplier when I was
>considering converting my outboard to propane. There is a liquid pick
>up in most tanks but they are real guarded about telling you how to
>use it and they absolutely will not talk to you about a transfer pump
>in residential zoning.
>
>There are a couple of internet discussions telling you how to fill 20#
>tanks from your bulk tank. It is a lot easier with an above ground
>tank but mine is buried.
>Basically you cool the 20# tank and hook it to the liquid line of the
>bulk tank. It is not nearly as fast as the pump.
===
Any pump certified as safe for gasoline should be OK. Leak prevention
at all of the fittings is the major issue other than grounding/spark
avoidance.
>On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:04:38 -0500, X ` Man
>considering converting my outboard to propane. There is a liquid pick
>up in most tanks but they are real guarded about telling you how to
>use it and they absolutely will not talk to you about a transfer pump
>in residential zoning.
>
>There are a couple of internet discussions telling you how to fill 20#
>tanks from your bulk tank. It is a lot easier with an above ground
>tank but mine is buried.
>Basically you cool the 20# tank and hook it to the liquid line of the
>bulk tank. It is not nearly as fast as the pump.
===
Any pump certified as safe for gasoline should be OK. Leak prevention
at all of the fittings is the major issue other than grounding/spark
avoidance.
iBoaterer
Feb 3, 2012, 11:38:19 AM2/3/12
to
In article <ar4mi75s0om352t2t...@4ax.com>,
waynebatr...@hotmail.com says...
Yes, that is true. Therein lies the problem, confusing the line between
CNG and LNG.
waynebatr...@hotmail.com says...
CNG and LNG.
Tim
Feb 3, 2012, 7:50:13 PM2/3/12
to
On Feb 1, 12:43 pm, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >If someone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said:
> >"Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
> >that.
>
> >Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
> >gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
> >improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
> >natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
> >least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
> >an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
> >thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
> >It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
> >of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
> >trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
>
> >Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
> >compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
> >work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
> >conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
> >natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
> >it is now.
>
> >In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
>
> ><http://seekingalpha.com/article/326572-2-energy-markets-and-their-imp...>
> >"Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
> >that.
>
> >Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
> >gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
> >improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
> >natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
> >least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
> >an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
> >thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
> >It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
> >of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
> >trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
>
> >Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
> >compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
> >work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
> >conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
> >natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
> >it is now.
>
> >In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
>
>
> >In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
> >in that article.
>
> I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
it is possible for big boats,.
> >In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
> >in that article.
>
> I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
When in Kauai' we'd be watching for the little cove at the Marriot
resort, and there was a large North Atlantic (Norwegian?) cruise ship
that would come in to port, and on the aft side's of the ship it was
proudly painted that the ships turbines ran on natural gas.
Tim
Feb 3, 2012, 7:55:11 PM2/3/12
to
On Feb 1, 2:10 pm, iBoaterer <b...@dah.net> wrote:
> In article <8f1ji7tc5or5147i5nnr3aq62n6i56h...@4ax.com>,
> gfretw...@aol.com says...
> In my city, they are changing buses over to natural gas.
The school district in Louisville IL was the first in the state to
purchase a propane powered school bus. fuel costs between it and the
same compatible diesel bus is considerably cheaper. like 40-45.c fuel
cost per mile on propane, to 8-90.c per mile diesel.
> In article <8f1ji7tc5or5147i5nnr3aq62n6i56h...@4ax.com>,
> gfretw...@aol.com says...
The school district in Louisville IL was the first in the state to
purchase a propane powered school bus. fuel costs between it and the
same compatible diesel bus is considerably cheaper. like 40-45.c fuel
cost per mile on propane, to 8-90.c per mile diesel.
Tim
Feb 3, 2012, 7:58:21 PM2/3/12
to
On Feb 2, 11:59 am, X ` Man <dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com> wrote:
> On 2/2/12 12:52 PM, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:07:38 -0500, iBoaterer<b...@dah.net> wrote:
>
> >> In article<mpeji7t7am86t88kvo3ispd0ikdl8ru...@4ax.com>,
> >> waynebatrecdotbo...@hotmail.com says...
can.com> wrote:
> On 2/2/12 12:52 PM, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:07:38 -0500, iBoaterer<b...@dah.net> wrote:
>
> >> In article<mpeji7t7am86t88kvo3ispd0ikdl8ru...@4ax.com>,
> >> waynebatrecdotbo...@hotmail.com says...
>
> >>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:43:07 -0500, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >>>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
> >>>> <waynebatrecdotbo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:43:07 -0500, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >>>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:25:59 -0500, Wayne.B
>
> >>>>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
> >>>>> If someone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said:
> >>>>> "Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
> >>>>> that.
>
> >>>>> Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
> >>>>> gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
> >>>>> improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
> >>>>> natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
> >>>>> least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
> >>>>> an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
> >>>>> thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
> >>>>> It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
> >>>>> of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
> >>>>> trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
>
> >>>>> Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
> >>>>> compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
> >>>>> work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
> >>>>> conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
> >>>>> natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
> >>>>> it is now.
>
> >>>>> In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
>
> >>>>> <http://seekingalpha.com/article/326572-2-energy-markets-and-their-imp...>
> >>>>> Is There a Natural Gas Powered Boat In Our Future?
>
> >>>>> If someone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said:
> >>>>> "Nonsense, can't possibly happen." Now I'm a little less sure of
> >>>>> that.
>
> >>>>> Some interesting things have been going on. The supply of natural
> >>>>> gas in the US and Canada has dramatically increased as a result of
> >>>>> improved drilling and exploration technology. We now have more
> >>>>> natural gas than we can readily use or transport, and as a result, at
> >>>>> least in the short term, prices for natural gas have decreased. As
> >>>>> an example, the historic price multiple between a barrel of oil and a
> >>>>> thousand cubic feet of natural gas has been approximately 10 to 1.
> >>>>> It is now at 40 to 1, a huge reduction. This has resulted in a number
> >>>>> of efforts to leverage natural gas as a transportation fuel, i.e.,
> >>>>> trucks, trains, ships, taxi fleets, busses, etc.
>
> >>>>> Obviously a lot of new infrastructure needs to be built to provide for
> >>>>> compression, transportation and end user filling stations. A lot of
> >>>>> work has already been done in the area of diesel to natural gas
> >>>>> conversion engines. Once a few more of these pieces come together,
> >>>>> natural gas as a transportation fuel will become much more common than
> >>>>> it is now.
>
> >>>>> In the meanwhile there are some interesting investment opportunities.
>
>
> >>>>> In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
> >>>>> in that article.
>
> >>>> I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
> >>>> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> >>>> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> >>>> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> >>>> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> >>>> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> >>>> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
>
> >>> ===
>
> >>> We had a family friend back in the 60s who worked in the oil fields of
> >>> western Kansas. Propane for him was free for the asking since a lot
> >>> of it just got flared off as a nuisance. He and is friends did a lot
> >>> of shade tree gasoline to propane conversions.
>
> >> Look at the thousands of fork trucks that were easily converted to use
> >> propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
>
> > The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
> > like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> > You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> > gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> > compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
>
> I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
> buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
> and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
Greg, I'd say it's all liquid
> >>>>> In the interest of full disclosure, I own some of the stocks mentioned
> >>>>> in that article.
>
> >>>> I suppose it might be possible for big boats but I am not sure how it
> >>>> works on small outboard boats. (you need a huge tank). In that regard
> >>>> propane is better, higher energy density.
>
> >>>> I did do a little research into propane and decided the change to an
> >>>> EFI outboard might be minimal tho. It might not be more than a
> >>>> software tweak and a gas regulator where the VST is now.
>
> >>>> I have some T Boone stock myself. ;)
>
> >>> ===
>
> >>> We had a family friend back in the 60s who worked in the oil fields of
> >>> western Kansas. Propane for him was free for the asking since a lot
> >>> of it just got flared off as a nuisance. He and is friends did a lot
> >>> of shade tree gasoline to propane conversions.
>
> >> Look at the thousands of fork trucks that were easily converted to use
> >> propane. Would be virtually the same for natural gas.
>
> > The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
> > like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
> > You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
> > gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
> > compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
>
> I'll have to discuss this with the propane truck driver who fills our
> buried tank. I don't know what state the gas is while it is in his truck
> and if there are changes made to it while it is being pumped into our tank.
Tim
Feb 3, 2012, 8:00:43 PM2/3/12
to
N.L. Eckert
Feb 6, 2012, 9:32:39 AM2/6/12
to
This is interesting and no more far fetched than the article I read a
few weeks ago about an engine that runs on compressed air. Of
course,storing either one would be that biggest problem. Warehouses
have been using either propane or CNG to power "hi-lo"s for a number
of years, so its not too unreasonable to try it in boats.
I doubt that it'll happen in my life-time, tho.....
Happy boating,
Norm
few weeks ago about an engine that runs on compressed air. Of
course,storing either one would be that biggest problem. Warehouses
have been using either propane or CNG to power "hi-lo"s for a number
of years, so its not too unreasonable to try it in boats.
I doubt that it'll happen in my life-time, tho.....
Happy boating,
Norm
Califbill
Feb 22, 2012, 8:36:57 PM2/22/12
to
wrote in message news:pqili7hc90jqle48q...@4ax.com...
The major problem with LNG is the liquidfication is by reducing the
temperature to about -160C degrees. So trying to make is a liquid for
vehicle use is not going to happen. You have to store is under HIGH
pressure in Bus tanks etc, to get a decent distance range. Any small boat
is not going to be able to carry a heavy tank for the NG and still be able
to perform decently.
The big difference is propane is stored at around 100 PSI, CNG is more
like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
--------------------------------------------------
like 2600-3000 PSI (both temperature dependent).
You also have a much higher energy density on propane. My guess is the
gas would be transported at the normal distribution pressures and
compressed to liquid at the fueling site.
The major problem with LNG is the liquidfication is by reducing the
temperature to about -160C degrees. So trying to make is a liquid for
vehicle use is not going to happen. You have to store is under HIGH
pressure in Bus tanks etc, to get a decent distance range. Any small boat
is not going to be able to carry a heavy tank for the NG and still be able
to perform decently.
Califbill
Feb 22, 2012, 8:42:37 PM2/22/12
to
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
news:MPG.2994a6ac1...@news.eternal-september.org...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Major problems with a LNG spill / leak. You have an extremely explosive
situation. One of the major worries of having an LNG terminal near a city.
news:MPG.2994a6ac1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Major problems with a LNG spill / leak. You have an extremely explosive
situation. One of the major worries of having an LNG terminal near a city.
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