Please Read Before Using AC Delco Filter Products
Greg Page
consider.
Thanks - Greg
E-mail to AC Delco Product Support:
I am writing to express my displeasure with your handling of the
investigation of my oil filter failures, claim #72409. My initial
contacts with your representatives appeared to show a genuine interest
and concern. The continued delays (it started in May and I just
received your written "report" yesterday, 31 July) and missed promises
(such as a copy of the full analysis report, not just a brief
paraphrase), and finally refusal to answer or even acknowledge my
request for specific information (sent in written from so you would be
sure to have a record of it) has shown that to be just a front.
I experienced the failure of two AC PF932 oil filters on seperate
engines within an hour of operating time of each other, and also
within an hour of installation of the filters. One filter was sent to
your lab, the other I retained.
Your lab correctly identified that, yes, in fact the filter would not
flow oil. Upon inspection of the failed filter they identified:
"Internal examination found the pleated media was warped, bunched up,
pinched off and had a dark sheen. The warpage indicates the presence
of water and/or coolant. The bunching up and pinched off indicates a
high differential pressure. The dark sheen also indicates the presence
of water. The element was heavily contaminated with sludge. This
indicates the engine/oil was very dirty. We can not determine the
exact cause. ..."
Since I retained the second filter I can agree with the physical
discription. The high differential pressure is obvious since no oil
was flowing through the filter. However, the rest of the corroberating
evidence (which was sent to your representative in writing) does not
support the engine as the cause:
1. The engines are new (10-20 hours), the filters were installed for
under 1 hour of run time before failure, so sludge from the engine is
extremely unlikely. Visual examination of the accessible regions of
the engine show no sludge or buildup.
2. The oil showed no other signs of water, such as the typical milky
brown. There is no sign of moisture inside the valve covers, the most
common place for water condensation to appear.
3. Subsequent filters run on both engines (2 on one, 1 on the other)
since show no similar signs of damage. And by coincidence have not
failed to flow oil with much greater running times than the AC units
(7 hours on one filter).
The oil was not and has not been changed since the original incident,
just topped off. The oil does not appear dirty, even on the dipstick
it remains clear. Oil drained from the removed filter was retained,
and after a month of sitting, still shows no signs of water.
What is disturbing is not that these facts disagree with your
analysis, but that when asked (in writing) to explain the discrepency
you made no reply, and even ignored that the questions were asked
(they were FedEx'd so it can be proven they were received and signed
for).
The only conclusion I can draw from your actions is that you are
unwilling to consider, let alone admit, that the filters were damaged
prior to installation on the engine, and that there are possibly
hundreds more defective filters in use. Without the quite unique
combination of instrumentation on my engines, the average user will
never even know that the filters have failed.
Given you handling of this incident I do not plan to use any AC
products in the future, and hope that others will do likewise.
-Greg Page
Gary Roe
Those filters were obviously defective. It's possible that any company
could have a few defective pieces get through, but only one with
integrity would admit it. It sounds like the original correspondence
was sincere, but upper mismanagement and the bean counters then
stopped any dialog.
Does a good, reliable, reasonably-priced filter exist? A couple of
years ago I had switched to AC filters for everything. After your
experience, I'm looking for a new brand.
Send spam to: nos...@nowhere.net
Send mail to: roegw at earthlink dot net
Larry W4CSC
wrote:
>Greg
>Those filters were obviously defective. It's possible that any company
>could have a few defective pieces get through, but only one with
>integrity would admit it. It sounds like the original correspondence
>was sincere, but upper mismanagement and the bean counters then
>stopped any dialog.
>
GM.....Integrity......ha ha ha ha......hoo hoo hoo hoo.....hee hee hee
hee.....OH STOP, YOU'RE KILLING ME!.....HA HA HA...HEE HEE....
You shoulda seen 'em in REAL action back in the 80's when my crappy
Pontiac Bonneville DIESEL was the issue!.....Denial? NORMAL.....DENY
EVERYTHING!
Just like Yamaha....(c;
Larry.....
codeman
camper? I never did read what you actually wanted other that for them to
admit their product was defective. Did I miss something? If I don't know,
then they don't know. Perhaps their concern was not to give you damaging
ammunition that could be used against them in a court of law. Loosing a
customer maybe a better business decision (cheaper) than loosing in a court
room. I really don't know what was going through their minds.
"Greg Page" <gregory...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:3986beb8.1839100@ra...
macleanpd
Have used AC filters for 30some years and have had no problems and have only
seen 1 ruptured filter and that was from filthy oil and below 0 temps. One
failure of a suspicious nature does a bad product make!
Doug
codeman <cod...@gj.net> wrote in message news:3987...@news.gj.net...
Joe
mass production and marketing. If GM had a bad run of filters there would
have been widespread failures. What are the chances of you getting the ONLY
2 bad ones? I am no expert and don't know if the AC filters are applicable
for super-high performance but they look a lot better than some of the other
crap on the auto parts store shelves. I can say that AC oil filters have
performed fine for normal auto and marine applications for me for years
(actually I never even had a crappy filter fail). Large companies base a lot
on statistics and if little or no other complaints were received about that
production run your problem will be quickly dismissed as "customer created".
Good Luck and hope you are running (with oil pressure) again!!!
Scott Peralta
anymore! Can't afford that stuff like you high-dollar offshore guys!
Scott
Larry W4CSC <W4...@lostonthe.net> wrote in message
news:4FB1E84365249E48.A23D4B34...@lp.airnews.net...
Jerry Bransford
AC-Delco's filters. In every test I've read, they were at or near the
top of quality and effectiveness. There's always one or two that go off
the deep end when something happens they weren't ready for.
Jerry
codeman wrote:
>
> Greg, what "would have" AC Delco had to have done to make you a happy
> camper? I never did read what you actually wanted other that for them to
> admit their product was defective. Did I miss something? If I don't know,
> then they don't know. Perhaps their concern was not to give you damaging
> ammunition that could be used against them in a court of law. Loosing a
> customer maybe a better business decision (cheaper) than loosing in a court
> room. I really don't know what was going through their minds.
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL KC6TAY
The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
Geezer Jeep: http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/gallery/JBransfordsTJ/
DaveA
When servicing on-road diesels, I'm told it's good practice to fill each
filter with oil to prevent the high pressure oil from suddenly entering the
filter which could end up crushing or malforming the element or otherwise
causing havoc inside some filters. This has only been told to me by several
of Penske Truck Leasing's mechanics that I've had working for me over the
years- so I haven't witnessed first-hand any such damage.
Possible?
Greg Page
>Greg, what "would have" AC Delco had to have done to make you a happy
>camper? I never did read what you actually wanted other that for them to
>admit their product was defective. Did I miss something? If I don't know,
>then they don't know. Perhaps their concern was not to give you damaging
>ammunition that could be used against them in a court of law. Loosing a
>customer maybe a better business decision (cheaper) than loosing in a court
>room. I really don't know what was going through their minds.
>
I sent them a list of what I think were very legitimate questions to
answer (they were posted a while back). Basically, I want to know how
water runs a filter, how much it would take, how long it would take,
and what other things would you expect to see with that much water in
the oil.
I've looked VERY closely at my motors, as if there IS a water problem
I'd like to find and fix it now, I can't afford to toast any more
engines for awhile. I can't see ANY signs of water in the oil, or any
similar signs of damage due to water in the three subsequant filters
I've cut open (thankfully no metal either).
I would like them to explain IF I should see other signs of water in
the oil and what they would expect. If it takes a lot of water, which
I'd expect, then I have to say the filters were bad when I got them
since there are no other signs of water, and they should own up to
having had some filters miss their QC and pay damages "if" the motors
do go belly up (so far they seem to have escaped basically undamaged,
so it's more a point of honor than an actual $$ from their pockets).
If tiny traces of water will ruin a filter then I'd say they are
pretty useless, as almost all motors are likely to see some
condensation in them.
-Greg
Greg Page
> While I can sympathize with your frustration remember the reality of
>mass production and marketing. If GM had a bad run of filters there would
>have been widespread failures. What are the chances of you getting the ONLY
>2 bad ones? I am no expert and don't know if the AC filters are applicable
>for super-high performance but they look a lot better than some of the other
>crap on the auto parts store shelves. I can say that AC oil filters have
>performed fine for normal auto and marine applications for me for years
>(actually I never even had a crappy filter fail). Large companies base a lot
>on statistics and if little or no other complaints were received about that
>production run your problem will be quickly dismissed as "customer created".
>Good Luck and hope you are running (with oil pressure) again!!!
I agree they didn't hear of other failures. As I have pointed out
before, without having dual pressure gauges (one on the inlet and one
on the outlet) and a full flow (ie. no bypass) system there is no way
you would ever know the filter had shut down. On the typical Chevy
truck, the "intended" application, you'd run with no filter for x000
miles, change it, and go on your merry way.
-Greg
Gilbert Archibeque
Sounds like the engine has problems in it self.
Sounds strange.
Gil
AC
you own a hi-performance motor then you have had them. It is neither
uncommon or unheard. All manufactures have them on occasion, some customer
created, some not. If you own a hi-perf motor you know where to measure oil
pressure. If you don't then you should find out.
There are greater causes out there then to try to beat up on AC for a lousy
oil filter.
AC
(not the manufacture)
No One
How about while you were filling the filter wth oil, before installing
it, or while oiling the gasket?