Scarab 26 or 270 Powerquest
Tim Whitney
Want a good boat to cruise with, and an occasional poker run.
I boat at Grand Lake, Okla. Tablerock in Mo. and Lake of the Ozarks.
Anyone know anything about Nordic Powerboats?
Bosn-Paul K.
around lightning flash boat I ever owened !!!
GarySanch
CoolWhip
AMondello
really solid boat that does well in bigger water. It's made in Holland
Michigan for use in the great lakes.
I've never had a problem with it other than batteries! The guy I bought mine
from, turned around and bought a '95 27' with twin 350 efi's. I wouldn't
suggest the twins, but you would probably get a consisten 70 out of the HP.
Anthony
GarySanch
>Whats the opinion out there on these, powered by 502 or HP500.
>Want a good boat to cruise with, and an occasional poker run.
>I boat at Grand Lake, Okla. Tablerock in Mo. and Lake of the Ozarks.
>
I have the Jan '95 Powerboat magazine which tested the Powerquest 270 Laser. I
can fax you a copy if you'd like.
I just bought a '93 27' Fountain w/502EFI. Pretty nice boat.
CoolWhip
Mike Carter
H82LUZ1 wrote in message >Scarab... Looks cool, but...
Looks cool but... But what??? I have a 1998 26' Scarab with a 502 and
it's a pretty nice boat. It handles great in rough water. A friend of mine
that has a 1993 29' Fountain say's my Scarab handles the rough better that
his Fountain! Now I'm not nocking Fountain as that might be my next boat.
I've never seen a Power Quest in person so I can't give you my opinion but I
can tell you my Scarab is better than any of the Baja's and Donzi's that I
tested. If you really want honest opinion's and true story's about the 26'
Scarab email me. See ya, Mike Carter
John Hill
heavier boat... A better comparisson is the Scarab 29. The Scarabs looks
much more streamline... The dealer here is a friend and used to race
offshore and swears by them ( as far as construction) ...
I'm 4 weeks into my 91 Scarab 31' Viper with 502s (97/Mayfair
steering/rebuilt transom and etc)). And I know very little about the
Offshore stuff ( except that from a marketing point of view Offshore boats
and Scarabs are almost like Cola and Coke)...
The boat has endured eight years and with only minor cosmetic work on it in
the last 4 weeks , attracts a lot of attention. And I'm not finding much
out there that can keep up with it either, inspite of its age and the
changes in Hull technology ( and its running some old 4 blades from two
different MFGs). Yeah, I wish it had a raised deck, for some head room in
the Stabin Cabin, but after nine years of saltwater use everything is still
functional. It takes rough water well and without much flexing and
nothing rattles...
Seems to be still a very tight boat...
If I was buying something new, I would look into another Scarab or an
Active Thunder... I dont think I could ever spend the kind of money a
Fountain takes, irrespective of it's superior quality... or even if I had
all the money in the world...
And as for holding value... none of them really do. They all drop in value
like a rock thrown into the Grand Canyon.
John
Mike Carter <LISAC...@prodigy.net> wrote in article
<6q1srp$1ceq$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
mlt...@primenet.com
Two friends have 28' Nordic Heats and love them. They seem to handle
the water at Havasu and Powell good. You might look at Ultimate
Warlock also. I was at the Advantage factory yesterday and they were
rigging one of their new 28' Sport Cats with twin 600 SC's. They
"said" it should run 110 when dialed in and Powerboat Mag was going to
do an eval on it.
Check out a friends page at http://pages.prodigy.net/jdnichols/
There's a good story on a friends Warlock. Also has some good pic's of
all our boats!
Craig
On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:14:59 -0500, Tim Whitney <whi...@feist.com>
wrote:
>Whats the opinion out there on these, powered by 502 or HP500.
>Want a good boat to cruise with, and an occasional poker run.
>I boat at Grand Lake, Okla. Tablerock in Mo. and Lake of the Ozarks.
>
Brian
>
>
>H82LUZ1 wrote in message >Scarab... Looks cool, but...
>
>Looks cool but... But what??? I have a 1998 26' Scarab with a 502 and
>it's a pretty nice boat. It handles great in rough water. A friend of mine
>that has a 1993 29' Fountain say's my Scarab handles the rough better that
>his Fountain! Now I'm not nocking Fountain as that might be my next boat.
>I've never seen a Power Quest in person so I can't give you my opinion but I
>can tell you my Scarab is better than any of the Baja's and Donzi's that I
>tested. If you really want honest opinion's and true story's about the 26'
>Scarab email me. See ya, Mike Carter
>
and not cheap stickers plastered on the boat,like Scarab.
Garry Heon
>
> In article LISAC...@prodigy.net says...
> >
snip
> >I've never seen a Power Quest in person so I can't give you my opinion but I
> >can tell you my Scarab is better than any of the Baja's and Donzi's that I
> >tested. If you really want honest opinion's and true story's about the 26'
> >Scarab email me. See ya, Mike Carter
> >
> >Please don't go knocking Baja buddy. At least my stripes are in the gel coat
> and not cheap stickers plastered on the boat,like Scarab.
It doesn't happen often but I would have to agree with Mike Carter on the Baja
statement. He's right on here. Sure my Baja had it's stripes in the gel, even
after the bottom completely delaminated it still had stripes in the gel.
After question a builder about fancy interiors, advertising and graphics
in the gel he asked "where would you like me to spend your money, on
those items or in the bottom."
Garry Heon
Mark Whatman
> Please don't go knocking Baja buddy. At least my stripes are in the
> gel coat
> and not cheap stickers plastered on the boat,like Scarab.
Yep, colored gelcoat is definately an indicator of performance and
construction!
In about 10 years when the Scarab is applying new stripes (either paint
or tape) how exactly will you be getting your boat to look new? I had a
boat with gel coated colors, looks great until the reds, blues and
blacks start to chalk, then it's waxing every week, veriglass and it
still looks like sh**. Imron and a few thousand dolars is your only
solution other than selling the boat and specifying "cheap" tape.
I'm not knocking your Baja, just your comment.
--
Mark Whatman
mwha...@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~mwhatman
Llamafeeder
>still looks like sh**. Imron and a few thousand dolars is your only
>solution other than selling the boat and specifying "cheap" tape.
>
>I'm not knocking your Baja, just your comment.
>
If Magic Brush is still doin the Scarabs at Wallyworld (Wellcraft) in
Sarasota I'd prefer that to gel anyday.
Uncle Roy is one bitchin painter.
LF
Mike Carter
tape on my boat! The problem with graphics in the gel is they are harder and
more costly to repair and if I ever want to change my graphic it's much
easier. See ya, Mike Carter
John Hill
boat/name on side or want to change the graphics and show some
individualality... very limiting in those situations..... And in the end
many are painted anyway...
Scarab, save the gel coat cost of stripes and but the money elsewhere(into
the boat)......
As far as I'm concerned they can all come plain white like a blank piece of
canvas on which to do your own thing.... as opposed to the cool color du
jour, which 5 years later is nolonger so cool...
John
Brian <bri...@ameritech.net> wrote in article
<pJKy1.46$sr6.1...@nntp0.milwaukee.wi.ameritech.net>...
> In article LISAC...@prodigy.net says...
> >
> >
> >H82LUZ1 wrote in message >Scarab... Looks cool, but...
> >
> >Looks cool but... But what??? I have a 1998 26' Scarab with a 502 and
> >it's a pretty nice boat. It handles great in rough water. A friend of
mine
> >that has a 1993 29' Fountain say's my Scarab handles the rough better
that
> >his Fountain! Now I'm not nocking Fountain as that might be my next
boat.
> >I've never seen a Power Quest in person so I can't give you my opinion
but I
> >can tell you my Scarab is better than any of the Baja's and Donzi's that
I
> >tested. If you really want honest opinion's and true story's about the
26'
> >Scarab email me. See ya, Mike Carter
John Hill
surveys... they have some nice articles on Baja construction that is a must
read for all... They sure look good, but after you read this... well.. The
site was posted on REC.BOATS a month ago when I was shopping for boats...
after you read what was on that site and you see the pictures... well there
were no comment replies back.. it spoke for it self! The boat surveyer used
the Baja as an example of the difference between the economy boat and a
quality boat. The individual who was braggin about how Baja was great value
and who the first reply and web site was left for, could not even make a
comment back..... It had to be heart breaking if you owned a Baja to read
this.... the lesson is new or used pay to have a boat surveyor go over it
when you get serious... well worth $350. I will bet that even on a new
boat you will get that much back in what they find that needs fixing, even
if you decide to buy... And on a used boat you will get more than that
back several times in repairs that need to be made by the current owner
first! And then sometimes they will really save you by saying DONT.
It was a 3 year old 26 ft Baja... completely shot in 3 years... Low hours,
no scratches... The worst grade of plywood anyone had ever seen... all
rotten... no complete hull liner... just carpet glued to plywood. Engine
Stringers were nailed together with galvanized nails and not even
completely fiberglassed over.... The bow sagged... no braces... Hopefully
newer ones are built better now and the ones over 30' look really sharp...
Gaffrig guages and etc.. but...
He compared the Baja to a 20+ year old Formula beside it which he said was
just an average built boat that was still in good shape however...
The Scarab is certainly not a Fountain or Bullet, but it is certainly not a
Baja either...
John
Garry Heon <he...@lucent.com> wrote in article
<35CB89E3...@lucent.com>...
> Brian wrote:
> >
> > In article LISAC...@prodigy.net says...
> > >
>
> snip
>
> > >I've never seen a Power Quest in person so I can't give you my opinion
but I
> > >can tell you my Scarab is better than any of the Baja's and Donzi's
that I
> > >tested. If you really want honest opinion's and true story's about the
26'
> > >Scarab email me. See ya, Mike Carter
> > >
> > >Please don't go knocking Baja buddy. At least my stripes are in the
gel coat
> > and not cheap stickers plastered on the boat,like Scarab.
>
Brian
their quality. I do have personal experience with an 88 model sport 240
chalking at the waterline in the dark maroon stripe. In other words, I spoke
before I thought......sorry....
>
>Brian wrote:
>
>> Please don't go knocking Baja buddy. At least my stripes are in the
>> gel coat
>> and not cheap stickers plastered on the boat,like Scarab.
>
>construction!
>
>In about 10 years when the Scarab is applying new stripes (either paint
>or tape) how exactly will you be getting your boat to look new? I had a
>boat with gel coated colors, looks great until the reds, blues and
>blacks start to chalk, then it's waxing every week, veriglass and it
>solution other than selling the boat and specifying "cheap" tape.
>
>I'm not knocking your Baja, just your comment.
>
H82LUZ1
> In other words, I spoke
>before I thought......sorry....
Ya gotta respect a man that is big enough to admit when he was in error.
Mike G.
GOBB24
like hell, granted they were wood and fiberglass, but it seems other paints
would fit the use better..
BB
BoatKitten
Whenever you get a few gouges or scratches, it's a whole lot less of a
headache to wet sand and buff a little bit than to have paint the whole boat
over again.
Also, most of the paint jobs I've seen on boats that get used alot, would
either scratch or the edges would start to wear after awhile. Some had tried
to save it by putting a clear coat over top - and that eventually could crack
or turn yellow. Many times we got calls from people asking if there was anyway
to 'gel' a boat.
Sure, it's easy to paint the boat over and over.. IF you have the money and
know good painters. (and if you like seeing your boat waiting in line for a
paint booth instead of on the water) But these folks didn't have that kind of
$, and they weren't offshore boats either.
Llamafeeder
For a while it was all Imron at Wellcraft in Sarasota. I havn't been
in the shop in a few years though, and they may be using something
else.
They may have switched to Sikkens..maybe Ryan knows.
Who cares if the paint cracks on a tunnel anyway?
;-P
John Hill
graphics... I just as soon have the paint/vinyl... since that almost always
gets changed and painted over anyway as when you put a name on the side...
And the cost to re gel coat is prohibited compared to painting...
The jetskis made by Yamaha/Polaris/Kawasaki are made out of SMC, not
gelcoated at all and are painted... while I prefere glass and Gelcoat....
you can not tell that they are just painted even 4 or 5 years later
surprisingly...
John
BoatKitten <boatk...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808091317...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
GOBB24
BB
Llamafeeder
>Stick with the "V" hull....Cat's are like bikes wioth training wheels...
HAHAHAH this is gonna be good...
take the heat off us llamas..
Still looking for Bucky,
LF
MrOffshore
few docks in my time...but at the end of the season I just took it to a
REPUTABLE paint shop and they had the DuPont guys do a photo analysis (at no
charge to me) to match the colors EXACTLY thinking they may have faded. I can
swear to you that you can't see the difference between the new and the old
paint...
Bump a decal and tear it and you can cut out a section and put in a new
piece...if the stripe faded (and they all do) you are shit out of luck and have
to live with the difference not to mention the splice marks that are left
behind!! And it leaves one more edge to begin peeling when it gets bumped or
rubbed a few times.
Gel stripes in the hull...this would have ot be my last choice...thye do chalk
and fade over time and then you have a nightmare of maintenance on your
hands...not to mention that if oyu really scratch it and have to have it
repaired...matching the gel color is next to impossible and only a handful of
people can really work on it and know what they're doing....and they aren't
cheap.
I can't beleive that anyone would choose anything other than paint...but
everyone has there own opinions....and like mine not everyone aggrees with
them.
MrOffshore
>rigging one of their new 28' Sport Cats with twin 600 SC's. They
>"said" it should run 110 when dialed in and Powerboat Mag was going to
>do an eval on it.
Stick with the "V" hull....Cat's are like bikes wioth training wheels...
GOBB24
Does paint really matter?
BB
Ryan Beckley
Millman(Magic Brush). The boats are still painted with IMRON but may
soon be done with some new BASF paint. MrOffshore anytime you want to
bring you big,fat,slow, v-bottom down we will show you a 30 foot twin
outboard cat that will eat your v bottom for lunch in anything under 5
foot. Remember IF IT'S NOT A CAT IT'S A DOG!!!!!!
Llamafeeder wrote:
>
> mroff...@aol.com (MrOffshore) wrote:
>
> >Stick with the "V" hull....Cat's are like bikes wioth training wheels...
>
Llamafeeder
>As far as Wellcraft paint jobs go they are still done by Roy
>Millman(Magic Brush). The boats are still painted with IMRON but may
>soon be done with some new BASF paint. MrOffshore anytime you want to
>bring you big,fat,slow, v-bottom down we will show you a 30 foot twin
>outboard cat that will eat your v bottom for lunch in anything under 5
>foot. Remember IF IT'S NOT A CAT IT'S A DOG!!!!!!
Like I said...this is gonna be good...
LF
H82LUZ1
>foot.
If it's under 5', it's a drag race...
>Remember IF IT'S NOT A CAT IT'S A DOG!!!!!!
Sounds like another Gauntlet just hit the floor.
The Challenge has been made! lllllLLLLETS GET READY TO
RUUUMMMMMMMBLLLLLLLLLLLEE!!!!
Mike G.
John Hill
one is more single purpose than the other!
John
Llamafeeder <llama...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<35d04133...@news.mindspring.com>...
> Ryan Beckley <kinetic...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >As far as Wellcraft paint jobs go they are still done by Roy
> >Millman(Magic Brush). The boats are still painted with IMRON but may
> >soon be done with some new BASF paint. MrOffshore anytime you want to
> >bring you big,fat,slow, v-bottom down we will show you a 30 foot twin
> >outboard cat that will eat your v bottom for lunch in anything under 5
> >foot. Remember IF IT'S NOT A CAT IT'S A DOG!!!!!!
Garry Heon
>
> >Advantage factory yesterday and they were
> >rigging one of their new 28' Sport Cats with twin 600 SC's. They
> >"said" it should run 110 when dialed in and Powerboat Mag was going to
> >do an eval on it.
>
A close friend raced a 35' Motion 'Runnin Wild' a few years back. He just
bought his first V bottom, 35' Formula Fastech with a pair of Bulldogs, he'd
gladly trade the boat for another Motion. The Formula has 18 hours on it
and it's going if anyone is interested. Not sure if he will get another
V bottom, heard him say maybe a 42' Cigarette, or a 40' cat.
Garry Heon
Kent.P...@mailexcite.com
kinetic...@sprintmail.com wrote:
> Remember IF IT'S NOT A CAT IT'S A DOG!!!!!!
>
True, but Deep Vee "Dogs" don't have to "Pussy-foot" around when it gets
rough.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Garry Heon
>
> Whats not to like about the 35 Fastech??? I'm baffled over how anyone could
> shop for / test ride / buy a boat that expensive and then hate it after 18
> hrs!!! How much is he looking to get for it?
Mark summed up why he doesn't like the boat. Not so much the boat but
the size since he is running with some of the bigger boats in the area.
We tend to cruise between 55 and 60 even when things get a little big.
He followed me on Saturday, things were sloppy to say the least, and
said I knocked it down a little for him. When I got on it with a
triple engine 42 Fountain that runs with us he said he could tell everytime
I got air cause he got beat by the waves that got by while I was in the
air. The Formula is beautiful, again if he were running with smaller
boats or even with guys that ran a little slower he'd be really happy
with it. As far as how much is he looking to get, the boat new with
the Bulldogs is $190K. Probably would be looking for a least $150K.
Garry Heon
Garry Heon
>
> I think it has a lot to do with who he's trying to run with, a 38
> Velocity (2 Teague worked 502's), a 45 Sonic (3 bulldogs), a 42 Fountain
> (3 502's), a 40 Apache (2 600 ci monsters). All of these capable of
You forgot the other 45' Sonic with 3 HP 500s, the other 42' Fountain
with 3 650hp blower motors, the Fountain you mention also has worked
502s. He is doing an impressive job running that 35 Formula though.
Garry Heon
Mike J.
Joseph J. O'Toole
shop for / test ride / buy a boat that expensive and then hate it after 18
hrs!!! How much is he looking to get for it?
Garry Heon wrote in message <35D0BB5F...@lucent.com>...
Mark Whatman
Velocity (2 Teague worked 502's), a 45 Sonic (3 bulldogs), a 42 Fountain
(3 502's), a 40 Apache (2 600 ci monsters). All of these capable of
shirt). The only way he can keep up is to tuck in behind one of these
"freighters" and let them knock down the seas. It's rather humbling
after you're used to finishing first in most of the races you ran in a
35' Motion. If he was running alone or with boats more his size he
would probably be king of the roost and feeling a bit better about his
ride. Just goes to prove how the best intentioned shopping can go for
naught when you take it out into the real world.
Mark Whatman
Joseph J. O'Toole wrote:
John Hill
unsatisfying...
Me I dont like losing but if I can can beat 51 percent of the boats I
race... well thats a few smiles anyway!
A guy here frst bought a Sketer Cat (32') with twin 700s and it does only a
mere 125+ mph. .. After a couple of hours it was for sale ( and still is...
Bruce Bullock Marine Clear Lake Texas- SeaBrook)... Solid white and
sharp, motivated seller I hear.... like new of course... kept insde
showroom..
So he had Sketer build him a 38 FT one with twin 900s and it does 145+
reportedly.. Better ride... Beautiful.. Yellow/purple and white...
Makes more noise that you can imagine, sounds like a 747 and about as
fast..
But these boats have no cabin space ... they make my 31 Scarab Viper look
roomy! And docking/Trailering is also a problem. There are trade offs...
if speed is the only thing... then get a cat. But 80 mph in a V Hull is
still a ton of fun racing some one else just a touch slower of course... it
still is enough on a Sunday to give everyone in a Blow Boat a heart attack!
How many places can go 145 mph at anyway on a Sunday!
John
Joseph J. O'Toole <jjot...@ptdprolog.net> wrote in article
<MB6A1.3751$pI2.8...@nnrp2.ptd.net>...
GOBB24
Skater boats, I'm a little confused here..
BB
Llamafeeder
> How many places can go 145 mph at anyway on a Sunday!
>
>John
>
On Clear Lake yet...
GOBB24
skiers off the hull for weeks...
BB
John Hill
Clear lake ( 145+ mph)! That boat looks so good standing still with the
engine covers off , I dont know that you need to go anywhere in it.... just
show those twin 900HP Poker Run engines and it draws a crowd just sitting
in the slip...
John
Llamafeeder <llama...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<35d157b0...@news.mindspring.com>...
GOBB24
collision they had down there a month or so ago? I know somebody died and the
boats were a wreck...
BB
Llamafeeder
>Yep but he was trying this past Sunday to do it again in that big cat on
>Clear lake ( 145+ mph)! That boat looks so good standing still with the
>engine covers off , I dont know that you need to go anywhere in it.... just
>show those twin 900HP Poker Run engines and it draws a crowd just sitting
>in the slip...
>
Bet he has plenty o' deck spiders too...
GOBB24
BB
PT Wolf
to 4'.
Llamafeeder
>But do you pee blood after you dock?
>
>PT Wolf wrote in message
><11654-35...@newsd-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
>My 22' Donzi BlackHawk w/ 502CID w/ BravOne does pretty good in seas up
>to 4'.
ooohhh...nasty
>
>
>
John Hill
offshore boat. The driver of the ski boat was arrested - DWI and it was
his brother that was killed. There father owned Joe Lees Restaurant in
Kemha...
I doubt if he made it close to 145 on Clear lake or even broke 100, but he
was roaring...
John
GOBB24 <gob...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808121958...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Joseph J. O'Toole
"out of my league"! Just seems a tad naive that someone who's used to
running with (and whipping) the big boys made that big of a boo-boo. Ah!
It's only money... He can shop for something bigger now - thats half the
fun.
Garry Heon wrote in message <35D100E3...@lucent.com>...
>Joseph J. O'Toole wrote:
>>
>> Whats not to like about the 35 Fastech??? I'm baffled over how anyone
could
>> shop for / test ride / buy a boat that expensive and then hate it after
18
>> hrs!!! How much is he looking to get for it?
>
Joseph J. O'Toole
MrOffshore
>bring you big,fat,slow, v-bottom down we will show you a 30 foot twin
>outboard cat that will eat your v bottom for lunch in anything under 5
I'll neve forget the time a guy in a Spectre Cat said about the same
thing....we were on Lake Erie at a bar called "The Casino" on the south shore
of Kelly's Island....he docked next to me and his redneck mouth was shootin'
off about Fountains (which was what I drive) and he was saying it just loud
enough for me to hear....now my wife doesn't take kindly to people bad mouthing
boats from God's Land (personally I know what my boat will do so I really
didn't care...he was only showing his ignorance) so she looked over and said
"Spectre Cat...whose ever heard of them?" (note: she's not an idiot and she
knew what they were...but she was attempting to piss him off...and I respect
Spectre Cat as a nice Cat and built very solid in every respect of the
word)...well...back to the story...this bozo...(wearing long pants, no shirt
and a foam baseball hat with a mesh back) climbed off his boat wiht his two
pals and proceded to the bar...a few hours later...(wind still picking up) he
comes down to the dock and starts in again. I look over and respectfully
say....would you like to race somewhere....he gives me look like," who me?" He
responded, "sure" and we fire up the boats and idle out to the water....he was
not happy at all to see that the lake was much rougher than when he arrived
(this is almost an everyday experience on Lake Erie) We throttle up and both
come up on plane...granted his engines were louder....but loud doesn't win
races...does it? Before he crested the third wave he had to back off and come
off plane....I kept going...it was the last time I ever saw this idiot....I
think he went in for a Kidney transplant and never boated again.
I guess my point is that where I boat you rarely get under 5' waves...and for
my money I want to run whenever I can...I drive a great distance every weekend
to get to my boat and I don't to sit on the shore and watch the others have
fun...therefore I run a "V". I actually have no problem with Cats but I would
never own one...not where I boat! That is unless it were a 46' Skater...MAYBE!
MrOffshore
>fast
>Skater boats, I'm a little confused here..
I caught that too...some people really need to get to their fishin' hole in a
hurry....
Kent.P...@mailexcite.com
Oh what fun it would be to show up at a BASS tournament with a 40' Skater,
Twin 900's and a chair mounted on the bow!
John Hill
John
MrOffshore <mroff...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808130433...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
GOBB24
BB
GOBB24
got a glimpse of it, but the graphics looked Scaraby...
BB
John Hill
head for the bay and get out of there!... Its not the day for playing in
the lake... no weekend really is! Its a mtter of survival and avoiding the
inevitable if you play there on that day! leave it to the guys who launch
one day a year on the 4th... see a movie.. it is safer!
John
GOBB24 <gob...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808132116...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...