Kneel or Sit in Canoe?
Lynn & Mike Key
Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
When I canoe with the paddling club of which I'm a member I notice very
few of the other members kneeling. Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is
the ankle pain from kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
experience? Thanks.
--
Cordially, Michael Key
"Extremism in the pursuit of prudence is no vice"--
Greasy Fingers, Chicago Gangsters
Gary Kiefer
Gary
Laura I. Evans
turbulent water and whitewater, kneeling offers much greater stability.
It lowers your center of gravity in the boat.
To make kneeling more comfortable, add shin supports. These are
wedge-shaped blocks of foam that you fit under your leg from the knee to
just above the ankle. They are taller at the ankle end than at the knee
end (to fill in the space under you leg when you kneel).
You can make shin supports yourself. You need is some 3" thick foam
(preferably minicell, which will not absorb or hold water and is soft),
a serrated knife (like one from the kitchen) and a rasp (nothing too
fancy).
First get into your normal kneeling position in your canoe. Have a
partner measure the height of the space under your leg (shin bone to
hull) just above the ankle. It probably is not more than 3". If it is,
glue two pieces foam together to make a single piece of the thickness
you will need.
Next, cut a 3" thick block of foam. Make it long enough to extend from
the end of the foam knee pad in your canoe to a point about two inches
above your ankle. (Better to cut it too long at first because you can
always shorten it later.) Make it wide enough to fit the width of your
leg plus an inch or two on each side.
Now rasp the side that will be against the hull to fit the shape of the
hull. If your canoe is flat-bottomed, you may not have to shape the
bottom of the block. But most canoes have some curvature so you'll need
to shape the block to fit into the boat.
Next, cut the block into a wedge. The front edge should be slightly
taller than where it butts up against the knee cup or knee pad. (The
extra height is to provide enough foam so you can shave this out to fit
your shin bone.) The back end should be slightly taller than the
distance you measured from your leg to the hull when you were kneeling.
Now, carve out a trough along the length of the foam wedge so your shin
will comfortably fit in it. Mark the back side so you will know which
is for your right leg and which is for your left leg. Make sure the
back of the block does not extend all the way to your ankle as this will
cut off circluation to your foot.
You can simply use the shin support as is. Or you can glue it into the
hull which I would recommend if you plan to paddle whitewater. Gluing
in the support gives your body more contact with the boat which is very
desirable for maneuvers. Be sure to ask your outfitter what kind of
glue to use with your hull.
No one should be miserable paddling on their knees. Life is too short.
Make it more enjoyable. I believe in making it a comfy experience.
Good luck.
Laura Evans
Toni Schaeffer
Kneel or sit: depends upon water conditions as to what is
"recommended"...otherwise it is just preference. Kneeling lowers your
center of gravity so is better in rougher waters or faster waters.
Kneeling may cause your ankles to hurt, but sitting for long periods of
time will cause other parts of you to ache as well ;) I'm a
switcher..... one of the joys of a canoe vs. kayak is that (in my
humble opinion) canoes allow you to wiggle around/move a bit more ;)
Kneeling may look "cooler" to some people....but who cares what ya look
like.....do what works for you. -Toni
Tim Hewitt
Lynn & Mike Key wrote:
>
> Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
> canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
> allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
> uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
> When I canoe with the paddling club of which I'm a member I notice very
> few of the other members kneeling. Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is
> the ankle pain from kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
> experience? Thanks.
I sit, my wife kneels with her butt on the edge of her seat. She is
more comfortable in this position and can keep it up all day. I wiggle
around on my flat cane seat avoiding "hot spots" and manage to stay
comfortable all day as well. We both kneel in whitewater.
-Tim
--
Tim Hewitt, Webmaster
Wooden Canoe Heritage Association
http://www.wcha.org
Oci-One Kanubi
Lynn & Mike Key <fla...@ibm.net> typed:
> Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
> canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
> allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
> uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
> When I canoe with the paddling club of which I'm a member I notice very
> few of the other members kneeling. Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is
> the ankle pain from kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
> experience? Thanks.
This is a recreational activity, so you should do it in the way that is
most fun. Paddling in pain is not a lot of fun, so, if I were you, I think
I would sit.
HOWEVer, if you start paddling whitewater, you will discover that paddling
with ankles that hurt is more fun than swimming rapids with ankles that
don't hurt. In that case you will undoubtedly choose to kneel, to increase
your stability and reduce the number of your swims.
I know a number of whitewater boaters that kneel to paddle through the
rapids and sit to paddle the the pools between the rapids, to stretch their
legs (for some people it's the ankles, for others it's the knees that
hurt.)
You could consider carving ankle braces out of blocks of minicell foam,
that you would place under your ankles when you kneel, so that your feet
would not be fully extended flat on the bottom of the boat; this might
alleviate some of the pain.
I kneel with my toes pointed straight down, so my ankles don't hurt at all.
To do this I must have firm shoe soles, so that the weight of my feet and
ankles is carried through the shoe body to the sole to the boat, otherwise
my toes would not last long. So, where most whitewater boaters wear
neoprene boots, I wear hightop Chuck Taylor's Allstars. Very punk, for a
50-year old.
--
-Richard Hopley, OC-1; Rockville, Maryland
To reply to me by eMail, delete the characters "NoSpam."
from my address as it appears in the message header.
Judi Hammett
I've always been told you're supposed to kneel, but I usually don't.
Sitting is just more comfortable for me. I know that kneeling is supposed
to provide better leverage, but it doesn't feel that way to me. I feel
like I have more control sitting.
Judi
LeonardMB
Lynn & Mike Key wrote:
> When I took canoeing lessons my teacher recommended
> kneeling because it is safer and allows for a better
> leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
> uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
> When I canoe with the paddling club of which I'm a
> member I notice very few of the other members kneeling.
> Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is the ankle pain from
> kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
> experience? Thanks.
It depends on what type of paddling you are doing. Kneeling provides much
better stability and control for whitewater, and allows a slightly more
powerful paddle stroke. Sitting is generally more comfortable for the
long haul.
Kneeling is only comfortable and useful in a boat with knee pads and/or
blocks, and preferably thigh straps as well.
I generally kneel on whitewater and sit on flat water, but I also switch
periodically for comfort and variety. Believe me, sitting gets
uncomfortable too after six or seven hours in the boat!
Your ankles will get used to it after a while. Try doing some leg
stretching exercises before you get in the boat.
Marc Leonard
Leon...@aol.com
Lars Brindt
In the Arctic Canoe Race (550 km of down river paddling) the fastest C2:s are 18 and 1/2 feet marathon racers (modified with a deck and spray skirts). In the more difficult rapids III+ - IV the most efficient (and stable) position has been sitting on a low seat with firm padding on the sides for hip support. I.e the normal (high) seat is pushed back (takes less than 2 seconds with any good sliding seat construction) and the paddler is seated in a K1 WW fashion with solid support for the hips ( butt 1-2 inches over the canoe bottom). We have found that this is by far the most stable position. OK you are not as flexible as when kneeling but if the name of the game is survival with maximum speed in big whitewater it is the only way to go. To be stable in a kneeling position you have to be able to place your knees wide appart and that is just not possible for the front paddler in a narrow C2 racer.
So to answer your question "It just not a question of kneeling or sitting" it is
also how you sit and how you kneel that matters.
Lars Brindt
Kent Premo
My canoe seat (rear) of our tandem is canted so far forward I can't get
comfortable without kneeling a good part of the time. The seat then
provides a convenient respite for the knees and the ankles, and a
simultaneous combination of kneeling and sitting is actually possible as
it is mounted fairly low.
dave_kennedy
LeonardMB wrote:
>
> Lynn & Mike Key wrote:
> periodically for comfort and variety. Believe me, sitting gets
> uncomfortable too after six or seven hours in the boat!
>
canoe, with an extra life jacket sitting on the air pocket behind me,
lay back, feet up....relax ...ahhhhh.....
Course the centre of gravity was just raised even more, so be careful
doing this. I find that this position makes me a target for the other
canoeists on the trip.
dk
Rich Briere
>Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
>canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
>allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
>uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
>When I canoe with the paddling club of which I'm a member I notice very
>few of the other members kneeling. Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is
>the ankle pain from kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
>experience? Thanks.
Swithcing off is the way to go for us. If you're on moving water the kneeling
position is going to give you the most stability, (IMHO), and on flat water
you can switch off;......... your butt and your knees will both last longer
that way. :-)
Rich Briere
T.J. Hittle
Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
>Very punk, for a 50-year old.
No way!!! Richard, you don't look a DAY over 49 9/10 yrs. Its a good
thing I log on here once every couple months just to see if you do
anything besides sit behind a monitor & type at company expense. ;-)
Come on out West this summer, Richard. Lots of water!!! Hey, I got an
idea!! We could look up your buddy, what's his name.....Scott. Cool!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
T.J. Hittle / P.O. Box 83 / Manhattan, KS. 66505-0083
voice: (913) 539-7772 fax: (913) 539-6050
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hittle Landscape Architects:
http://www.kansas.net/~tjhittle/l_arch.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kansas Paddler:
http://www.kansas.net/~tjhittle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imagination may not be everything, but it is WAY ahead
of whatever is in second place!"
Mark Rickert
ju...@abs.net (Judi Hammett) wrote:
It's not so much leverage as it is center of gravity. When
you kneel you are more stable in the boat. To see what I mean try
sitting and wiggle your hips while feeling the way the boat responds.
Try the same thing kneeling. If you really want to sit and the bat is
tippy then drop your seat a couple of inches to move your cg closer to
the water line. You will be more stable and more comfortable.
Otherwise start stretching your tendons by kneeling on the floor with
your feet flat like they were in a boat. It doesn't take that long to
get stretched to the point where you can stay comfortable.
Mark
Robert Kirkman
In article <336512...@ibm.net>, Lynn & Mike Key <fla...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
>Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
>canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
>allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
>uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
>
position. I suspect that in Fla. There is little water that requires the
extra stability kneeling affords. Also when paddling with others consider
that there may be other motives and considerations. They maybe such good
paddlers that they can get by seated when you should be on your knees. They
may not have the benefit of your instructor's wisdom. And there is always the
possibility that they never see anyone else doing it that way so don't want
to look bad. In whitewater paddling kneeling is the norm and you should take
the time and pains to learn it.
Ira Adams
In article <5ki0br$f8_...@news.iquest.net>,
bo...@iquest.net (Robert Kirkman) wrote:
I might add that in three years of canoe trips with my son and his Boy
Scout troop, he and I are the only crew that kneel in our canoe (because I
told him that was how it's _really_ done). We are also the only ones in the
troop who have never capsized. Coincidence? Maybe.
Ira Adams
Lloyd Grey
Lynn & Mike Key wrote:
>
> Do you kneel or sit when canoeing? I'd like some idea. When I took
> canoeing lessons my teacher recommended kneeling because it is safer and
> allows for a better leveraged stroke. However, I find kneeling to be
> uncomfortable. It kills my ankles.
>
> few of the other members kneeling. Is kneeling or sitting the norm? Is
> the ankle pain from kneeling something that goes away with more paddling
> experience? Thanks.
> Cordially, Michael Key
>
> "Extremism in the pursuit of prudence is no vice"--
> Greasy Fingers, Chicago Gangsters
I'll try to keep this short. Someone (below) suggests that you can lower
the center of gravity by lowering the seat. That's true. You can get a
lower center of gravity by lowering the seat than you can by kneeling.
Does that mean that kneeling serves no useful purpose? No. The true
advantage of kneeling is that you can control the canoe better. (You can
get plenty of thrust from the seated position, and you can increase the
thrust by adding a footbrace! Easy to do!) A lot of people cannot get
comfortable kneeling, period. But you're not less of a canoist because
you choose not to kneel. You just trade off some control for greater
comfort. Some of us simply can no longer kneel (in my case, it's
arthritis), so we just lower the seat[s] and keep on paddling!
EZeiss
You know it depends on what kind of seat you have in your boat.