Which Seda Glider should I buy?
LoveDelphi
I'm ready to buy a new Seda Glider. I'm undecided between which one. My
understanding of the differences are:
* Standard Fiberglass (Gelcoat, No front bulkhead, front screw hatch)
* Deluxe Fiberglass (Skincoat, with frong bulkhead, 8" hatch )
* Kevlar ...
Weight is not a concern because I live on the water and won't transort it. I'm
also 230 lbs (6'1", 38 waist) so it's not as big a percent difference for me. I
also don't care about not having a front bulkhead.
What I do care about is relative looks & strength. I'm leaning towards the
Standard Fiberglass. Any opinions?
1) Is this "gelcoat" on the standard version something that will look nicer
than "skincoat" on the Deluxe, and whatever the Kevlar has? (I'm using it to
sprint out to some islands where it will lay on the beach next to me with
people walking by).
2) Which would be more durable over the years from the pounding of waves on the
Great Lakes with a heavier load? Is the Standard thicker & stronger? Which
would be the worst?
Thanks...Dave
John Fereira
>Hello,
>I'm ready to buy a new Seda Glider. I'm undecided between which one. My
>understanding of the differences are:
>* Standard Fiberglass (Gelcoat, No front bulkhead, front screw hatch)
>* Deluxe Fiberglass (Skincoat, with frong bulkhead, 8" hatch )
>* Kevlar ...
>
>Weight is not a concern because I live on the water and won't transort it. I'm
>also 230 lbs (6'1", 38 waist) so it's not as big a percent difference for me. I
>also don't care about not having a front bulkhead.
>
>What I do care about is relative looks & strength. I'm leaning towards the
>Standard Fiberglass. Any opinions?
I'd go with the Deluxe fiberglass model, only because it has a
front bulkhead, and the standard doesn't.
>1) Is this "gelcoat" on the standard version something that will look nicer
>than "skincoat" on the Deluxe, and whatever the Kevlar has? (I'm using it to
>sprint out to some islands where it will lay on the beach next to me with
>people walking by).
The Glider will certainly get you out to those islands faster then
most but to seems that a pretty boat seems to be high on your list of
criteria. If you're mostly interested in a kayak that will attract
attention you should consider building a stitch-n-glue or strip built
kayak.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
LoveDelphi
Thanks but that's not what I asked for. I said "relative looks" because I'm
already decided on a glider. But within gliders I just don't want to end up
with a natural material color hull because they left off paint to save weight.
As for having a front bulkhead, I also indicated it was a non-issue. If
anything, I'd prefer not to have it. Otherwise I don't know where I'd mount
that 20lb 12volt 31amp-hr gel battery and still have it ventilate. No room
behind the seat. As for extra water to bail out, that's what 1100 GPM electric
bilge pumps are for.
- Back on topic -
I've only had plastic Kayaks, so I'd appreciate any comments from Glider owners
(or equiv) to the question I did ask about looks of gelcoat vs. skincoat and
whether the standard/deluxe/kevlar would be strongest/weekest.
Al Kubeluis
I have a kevlar Glider (no rudder) which I really love. I'm 5'11'' 190 pounds. Yes, glass is
stronger, and heavier.
When I started kayaking, the looks of the kayak were important to me also. Eventually I got a
P&H Serius, which is an excellent, great looking kayak. But I replaced the Serius with the Glider
because the Glider is faster, has good initial stability, and is much lighter, although it's not as
rugged or stylish as the Serius. Now I consider speed, stability, comfort, and control most
important, and looks unimportant.
I too live on the water, but I still transport my kayak a lot to go on trips with other kayakers.
And weight does make a difference here also. Consider the kevlar Glider.
Al Kubeluis
John Fereira wrote:
--
Al Kubeluis (Water, Sea & White, And I'm All Right)
John Fereira
>Hi again John!!!
>
>Thanks but that's not what I asked for. I said "relative looks" because I'm
>already decided on a glider. But within gliders I just don't want to end up
>with a natural material color hull because they left off paint to save weight.
The difference between the standard and custom model is 10 pounds so
I doubt that it's just an issue of paint.
>As for having a front bulkhead, I also indicated it was a non-issue. If
>anything, I'd prefer not to have it. Otherwise I don't know where I'd mount
>that 20lb 12volt 31amp-hr gel battery and still have it ventilate. No room
>behind the seat. As for extra water to bail out, that's what 1100 GPM electric
>bilge pumps are for.
Perhaps I'm just not understanding your motives for purchasing an
expedition kayak, especially one that has the performance of the
Seda Glider. It is, from what I've heard one of the fastest touring
boats available and I've never heard of anyone installing a battery
in a sea kayak before. I could understand maybe doing it in a
recreational boat, but not a boat designed for the kinds of conditions
that the Glider is built. For some reason this reminds me of taking a
perfectly good 4WD truck and lowering it to 4" off the ground and filling
up the bed with subwoofers. Yea, it might look cool, but it kind of
defeats the purpose of having a 4WD truck.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
LoveDelphi
I'll go with the standard fiberglass unless someone says deluxe is stronger.
I'm assuming the deluxe is thinner & slightly weaker, but for all I know it
could be stronger with a more expensive resin.
I also would still like to know what skincoat is on the deluxe fiberglass
versus gelcoat on the standard. I'm assuming Getcoat is a deaper shine and more
visually appealing.
For the rest of the group, all I want are those specific questions answered. I
make no claim that it's the sole basis of my decision so keep your opinions,
bulkheads and rudders to yourself. Do not look at any "big picture". Pretend
we're talking about door panels for a corvette if it makes it easier. Forget
weight when I say I don't care about weight. Forget cost.
I only ask which is stronger and which has a nicer finish. None of you are my
mother so don't ignore the question to steer me towards what you think I need
or to tell me I have to try it on first before I buy it
Remember to pretend we're talking about door panels if it's the only way you
can confine your answers to what I asked.
(In the future I'll have the sence not to post my questions to this group.
ARGGG!!!!).
LoveDelphi
more trouble than it's worth.
I'm used to newgroups where you ask how many inches in a foot and someone says
12.
Around here all you get are people telling you to convert to the metric system.
No further replies wanted. Not worth the time reading this spam.
John Fereira
>Yeah I know thanks. I won't be posting any more questions to this group. It's
>more trouble than it's worth.
Than it's worth? Several people have taken the time to offer suggestions
for a good sea kayak despite you're rather unique criteria for making a
selection. It looks to me that the answers you received are worth as much as
you paid for them.
>
>I'm used to newgroups where you ask how many inches in a foot and someone says
>12.
>Around here all you get are people telling you to convert to the metric system.
>
>No further replies wanted. Not worth the time reading this spam.
Next time you consider posing a question to a newsgroup you might want to
add a disclaimer that you're only interested in answers that you want to
hear.
Since this group doesn't exist to serve you with answers that you want to
your questions, how people choose to respond is beyond your control.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
Riviera Ratt
loved...@aol.com (LoveDelphi) wrote:
(snip thanx to Al, etc.)
>
> For the rest of the group, all I want are those specific questions answered. I
> make no claim that it's the sole basis of my decision so keep your opinions,
> bulkheads and rudders to yourself. Do not look at any "big picture". Pretend
> we're talking about door panels for a corvette if it makes it easier. Forget
> weight when I say I don't care about weight. Forget cost.
>
> I only ask which is stronger and which has a nicer finish. None of you are my
> mother so don't ignore the question to steer me towards what you think I need
> or to tell me I have to try it on first before I buy it
>
> Remember to pretend we're talking about door panels if it's the only way you
> can confine your answers to what I asked.
>
> (In the future I'll have the sence not to post my questions to this group.
> ARGGG!!!!).
>
Well, exCUUUUUUSE the people who tried to help. I bet no offense was intended.
You want to know which is stronger and has a nicer Finnish? I sure hope you've
contacted Seda. I bet they'd be of some help, eh?
I remember one time, when I was fairly new to RBP. I asked for opinions on
ranking of some famous rivers in terms of danger and difficulty. I included
the Green Narrows, Lower Meadow, Upper Blackwater, Bottom Moose, and a few
others. I included a plea not to tell me about some funky creek in readers'
backyards, plus a small gratuitous slam upon the moral habits of Persons of
Yellow-Follicular Persuasion (PYFPs). In response, I got: 1 Defense of PYFPs,
and criticism of my gratuitous insult; 3 Defenses of my gratuitous insult, at
least one coming from a PYFP (won't mention his name, which rhymes with
"Schlanubi"); 4 Posts saying, "there's a way gnarlier creek in my backyard;"
1 Post suggesting that I hadn't identified the true characteristics of
whitewater fun, which include a sunshiney day and a good group of friends; 0
Posts ranking the rivers I'd listed by difficulty or danger.
Morals: 1) The Internet (including Usenet) is an entropic medium. Anybody can
be a publisher, but there are precious few editors. b) If you redirect your
question at one of the knowledgable and friendly people in a friendly way,
still despe-Ratt-ly seeking information, you have a good chance at success.
gamma) Lighten up, dude. We're supposed to be having some fun here. If you
get an answer to your question, great! If the answer doesn't exactly match
your question, it hasn't exactly cost you a bundle. Mars) I believe it's
spelt with a final "H": "ARGGGH." You're welcome for this unsolicited advice.
Riviera Ratt
Still Clueless in ’99!!!
For a good time, call http://members.aol.com/rivierratt/ratthole.html
(Please reply to RivierRatt at AOL dot com; I don’t check dynamo_hum.)
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Al Bowers
loved...@aol.com (LoveDelphi) writes:
> Thanks Al. Based on what you said I think I can rule out the Kevlar. I think
> I'll go with the standard fiberglass unless someone says deluxe is stronger.
> I'm assuming the deluxe is thinner & slightly weaker, but for all I know it
> could be stronger with a more expensive resin.
> I also would still like to know what skincoat is on the deluxe
> fiberglass versus gelcoat on the standard. I'm assuming Getcoat is a
> deaper shine and more visually appealing.
I've got a Seda Swift in standard and a Seda Glider in Deluxe. You
can get the forward bulkhead added to the standard if you want it,
it's a few bucks extra. You don't want it, so no biggie.
The Standard gelcoat finish is prettier, but ever so slightly. The
deluxe leaves small imperfections in the hand layup visible, but only
if you look really hard. The thicker gelcoat in the standard makes
scratches, dents and dings easier to patch/fix, IMHO.
The Delux gets a different resin (isophtalic) which is stronger. So I
would guess that strength is even for both (thicker gelocoat vs
isophtalic construction). The skin coat of the delux is tougher to
repair well (I know, I'm fixing a ding). It's my impression that the
standard is slightly more rigid than the deluxe, but it's minor.
If I could have afforded it, I would have gone the Kevlar, even though
it isn't quite as pretty as the deluxe. But the strength would have
been worth it. Note that even the standard and deluxe have Kevlar
reinforcing in certain places in all Sedas boats (the standard Swift
has a Kevlar strip in the keel that can be seen inside where the paint
has worn through).
If you want looks, buy the standard; if you want light weight, buy the
deluxe (old man Sedivec will tell you the same thing). Strength is
about the same, IMHO.
Al Bowers ...I'll buy another Seda next time, too...
Al Bowers
Al Bowers <bow...@orville.dfrc.nasa.gov> writes:
> loved...@aol.com (LoveDelphi) writes:
>> I'll go with the standard fiberglass unless someone says deluxe is
>> stronger. I'm assuming the deluxe is thinner & slightly weaker,
>> but for all I know it could be stronger with a more expensive
>> resin.
> I've got a Seda Swift in standard and a Seda Glider in Deluxe...
> If you want looks, buy the standard; if you want light weight, buy the
> deluxe (old man Sedivec will tell you the same thing). Strength is
> about the same, IMHO.
Thinking about your requirements, you should seriously consider the
Impulse. The extra 2 inches of room under the might be worth it at
your size. I'm about 5 ft 10 in tall and weigh 175 (soaking wet) with
size 9.5 (US) feet, and I am comfortable in the boat. If you're much
larger, I'd say the Glider might be too tight a fit (especially for
the feet). The Impluse is only slightly shorter on the LWL, so it's
very nearly as fast, and the extra couple of inches of toe room might
be worth it. IMHO...
Al Bowers
LoveDelphi
"The difference between the standard and deluxe constructions are the front
bulkhead and hatch plus the standard is made with
roving and mat material which makes the heavier. The deluxe construction is
made
with 6 oz and 10 oz cloth which is lighter. The standard is not stronger
however".
As for some other threads I had...
Someone had said they read in Chapman's that a paddle craft couldn't have the
red/green lights but only a flashlight. I realize you only need a flashlight,
but I didn't see anything about Kayaks being different than a boat under oars.
I used that question submission thing where you can download the navigation
rules from the coast guard. I got a response back that it was fine to have the
red/green bow lights configuration on a Kayak as you would for a boat under
oars.
As for rear bulkheads, Seda said I can't have it mounted anywhere else but
could have no bulkhead if I wanted to put my own rear bulkhead in. P&H offers
it in 2 places (or both). Wilderness hasn't responded yet but a dealer didn't
think so. Eddyline (Falcon 18) was very eager to please and said they'd
install the rear bulkhead anywhere I wanted it.
On further consideration I ruled out going with the Standard Fiberglass on the
Seda and putting the 20lb battery where a front bulkhead isn't. Besides the
Standard not being any stronger anyway, I think a 20 lb load that far forward
would cause the nose to ride lower than designed for unless you had
significantly more weight in the rear to balance it.
But which ever I get, I'm thinking now that I could leave the rear bulkhead
as-is and drill significant airholes (near top and bottom ) for ventilating the
battery. Then add an additional bulkhead behind the battery to be the water
tight seal on the rear compartment. Possibly with a resealable but water tight
access plate for replacing & inspecting the gel battery as needed. I've
actually seen some Kakaks in the Wilderness Systems catalog with 20lb thrust
motors so presumably they have a battery somewhere.
I think I'm going for my earlier choice the WS Shenai since just findout out
it's available without a skeg. Looks like just about all Kayaks (except a few
daggers, etc) are available without skeg or rudder. Went to the dealer
yesterday and going back today.
Signing off now (unsubscribing) so I don't get pulled back into any of those
debates. Just wanted to pass along the information before I left.