Maker of Coleman Ultimate 100 Kayak
dominic...@gmail.com
I was all set to pick up two Old Town Otter Rec. Kayaks, when an
unknown option came into play: A Coleman Ultimate 100. It is $20
cheaper per kayak, but it seems to have a number of features of the
more expensive kayaks (and looks just like a Perception Swifty). It has
a covered hatch and bungee cording on the bow and stern to hold gear
down. I figure this kayak is just a rebranded kayak from a regular
maker, again possibly Perception... Does anyone know? It is 10' and
41lbs. as opposed to the Otter's 9.5ft. which I like too.
Should I stick with the Otter, or go with this new option. I won't be
able to demo it, but I have demoed the Perception Swifty and really
liked it.
These are my final options so bringing up other/better options is out
of the question. But any help on these two is very much appreciated.
Thanks!
dominic...@gmail.com
Coleman Ultimate 100. We've looked at so many they begin to blur in the
mind. So exactly what I said above but substitute Pelican Pursuit 100
DLX for any mention of Perception Swifty.
John Fereira
@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Hey all,
>
> I was all set to pick up two Old Town Otter Rec. Kayaks, when an
> unknown option came into play: A Coleman Ultimate 100. It is $20
> cheaper per kayak, but it seems to have a number of features of the
> more expensive kayaks (and looks just like a Perception Swifty). It has
> a covered hatch and bungee cording on the bow and stern to hold gear
> down. I figure this kayak is just a rebranded kayak from a regular
> maker, again possibly Perception... Does anyone know?
Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making polyethelene
canoes longer than any of these other companies have been making
polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual paddler so it
stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational kayak market as well.
> Should I stick with the Otter, or go with this new option. I won't be
> able to demo it, but I have demoed the Perception Swifty and really
> liked it.
Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are likely
pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra feature or two
at a price you like, buy it.
dominic...@gmail.com
John Fereira wrote:
> Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making polyethelene
> canoes longer than any of these other companies have been making
> polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual paddler so it
> stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational kayak market as well.
I figured it because they look identical. The overall look of the
Pelican Pursuit 100DLX looks just like the Coleman Ultimate 100. The
similarity in naming, the dimensions, and the features are an almost
exact match. As I stated Coleman doesn't manufacture kayaks, and
usually just places their brand name on other companies products. My
deduction was that when you look at the Coleman and the Pursuit 100DLX
they look exactly alike.
(As I stated I had simply mis-spoken by naming the Perception Swifty, I
meant to say that the Coleman was identical to the Pelican Pursuit
100DLX.)
> Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are likely
> pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra feature or two
> at a price you like, buy it.
The overall shape is a bit different between the two. The otter is a
bit more oval shaped like a rec. boat, whereas the Coleman Ultimate 100
is like a cross between a rec. boat and a day tourer. I think I may end
up with the Coleman for a number of reasons, I just was really hoping
someone would know the manufacturer of this kayak.
Thanks.
John Fereira
news:1145365232....@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> John Fereira wrote:
>> Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making
>> polyethelene canoes longer than any of these other companies have been
>> making polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual
>> paddler so it stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational
>> kayak market as well.
>
> I figured it because they look identical. The overall look of the
> Pelican Pursuit 100DLX looks just like the Coleman Ultimate 100. The
> similarity in naming, the dimensions, and the features are an almost
> exact match. As I stated Coleman doesn't manufacture kayaks, and
> usually just places their brand name on other companies products.
I didn't know that. I did a web search on "Coleman Ultimate 100" and the
only thing I came up with was a cooler. Apparently it's a very new model.
From one of the sites I found, it indicated that the Pelican boat is
constructed with RAM-X technology. Coleman holds the patent on RAM-X so it
may be that the Pelican boat is actually made by Coleman.
> My
> deduction was that when you look at the Coleman and the Pursuit 100DLX
> they look exactly alike.
If they look exactly alike and the specifications are exactly alike then
they probably came out of the same mold. Frankly, I think you're spending
more time than is really useful making a decision. I doubt that many people
would find a significant difference between most recreational kayaks on the
market today, in terms of how it actually paddles. That's why I suggested
that the fact that you weren't able to test paddle the Coleman probably
isn't a deal killer. The criteria upon which you might choose a
recreational kayak is quite a bit different than for touring or whitewater
boat. Paddling performance isn't as much of an issue because, the primary
purpose of a recreational kayak is just to get you on the water in a stable
platform for a bit of casual paddling. Most of what you read on vendor
website that distinguishes one rec boat over another is most likely markeing
hype.
There are however a few things you that you might look for.
Is the seat comfortable? Most seats are molded plastic so just sitting in
it for awhile will tell you if there any pressure points that will make
paddling in uncomfortable.
If more than one person is going to be paddling the boat does it have
adjustable footpegs? Yakima foot braces are almost standard but some kayaks
have molded plastic footbraces with a handful of fixed positions.
Does the kayak appear to be reasonably constructed? Look for a fair hull
(no dents) and note how any rigging is attached. If it has a bulkhead (a
plus, since many recreational kayaks do not and it's a safety as well as a
convenience feature) does it appear watertight?
Most recreational kayaks are sold as "entry level" kayaks at an "entry
level" price. The lower the price the more you can spend on a paddle, and
other gear.
>
> (As I stated I had simply mis-spoken by naming the Perception Swifty, I
> meant to say that the Coleman was identical to the Pelican Pursuit
> 100DLX.)
>
>> Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are
>> likely pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra
>> feature or two at a price you like, buy it.
>
> The overall shape is a bit different between the two. The otter is a
> bit more oval shaped like a rec. boat, whereas the Coleman Ultimate 100
> is like a cross between a rec. boat and a day tourer.
To me, it look just like another recreational kayak and you shouldn't base
your decision on the possiblity that it might be more like a day touring
kayak. I wouldn't consider anything less than 13' long (I'm being generous)
to be classified as a day touring kayak.
Something you haven't appeared to have done was test paddle a few day
touring kayaks to see if something a bit longer and narrower might be to
your liking.
My first kayak was a 26" wide, 12' long recreational kayak. After I bought
it I took a class and paddled several touring kayaks. Within three weeks of
buying my first boat I was in the market for another one. I ended up buying
a used fiberglass touring boat that I still have (and love to paddle) 9
years later.
dominic...@gmail.com
John Fereira wrote:
...Snip...
Wow, thanks John! I really appreciate the response and I learned
something new. I wasn't aware of the Pelican/Coleman relationship, just
seemed a lot like the Pelican Pursuit. The coleman does have a
watertight bulkhead and the bungee cords in the front and back. The
Otter has none of this.
I understand that this is not a day touring model, I was just trying to
say it is more elongated and has more of the features of a day touring
yak. I'll most likely go with the Coleman for the features it offers.
Apparently it is a brand new offering as the store claimed they were
new as of this week, and yes there is no information online anywhere
including Coleman's site yet about it. That was why I turned to this
NG, in hopes someone may know something. It figures after having my
mind made up and going to purchase our kayaks a dark horse enters the
picture and throws it all out of whack. :)
Thanks again.
dominic...@gmail.com
Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
> My wife was recently in the market for her first kayak. Through much
> research, she had decided on a Swifty but had seen the Coleman/Pelican
> kayaks and wanted to "check them out" before making a final descision.
>
> The Pelican and Coleman kayaks we looked at were sold at department
> stores. Just asking a question brings on dumbfounded looks from the
> clerks who have no clue. They also seem cheaply made, one I looked at
> had an odd dent in it, not typical hull deformation from sitting on
> something, but a flaw in the molded platic about the size of a
> softball. No thanks.
>
> Since you are not interested in better options, I won't post what she
> finally chose and is 100% happy with.
I have inspected the kayak closely and it is actually well made and as
rigid if not more than the Otter and very similar in construction.
Otters are a good basic rec boat, it isn't that I'm being difficult or
anything... just that I know what I am looking for after demoing what
we have and we have decided on that boat for a variety of reasons. The
Coleman just threw a monkey wrench in the works since it is brand new
and has a few nice additional features at a very slightly lower
pricepoint on sale.
I have two outdoor outfitter/kayak shops in my area and truth be told,
the salesman at Dunham's Sporting goods by my house was an avid kayaker
and was actually quite informative. He didn't have any info on who made
the Coleman though beyond our agreement that it looked very similar to
the Pelican Pursuit.. which is why I came here.
I'd be perfectly happy to hear what your wife chose, just that
extolling the virtues of a day tour/touring model will not even be
considered as it is not what we need or desire. Some fishing on
flatwater lakes/rivers, some recreational paddling for exercise, and
some basic class1-2 rapids at best for fun. Believe me I know how nice
and comfortable some upper-end models can be and if they fit our goals
and budget I'd consider them... they just don't fit our needs right
now. I have no problems buying two more a a couple years or so down the
road and owning 4 kayaks with specific purposes. Not a big deal for me.
Thanks
dominic...@gmail.com
Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
> My needs are pretty much the same as yours. I bought a Pungo 120 and it
> is so much nicer than the Classic Pungo I had before. The seat is
> fantastic, I can adjust it a couple of ways and it helps me spend way
> more time on the water than I had in the past. I had to go over my
> budget by about $200, but I have not regretted it. I thought it was
> better to spend more and cry once, then get something I wasn't happy
> with and cry often.
>
> Here's a pic of hers and mine.
>
> http://i3.tinypic.com/vypbvs.jpg
>
> Hope you find just what you're looking for.
UPDATE: Just an FYI to anyone who cares, I picked up the Coleman
Ultimate 100's the other day for only $229 each on sale with over $100
off each one. They are extremely well made. They are Roto-X hulls so my
guess of them being made by Pelican seem spot on.
Since there is absolutely NO information online, on Colemans site, or
on dunhams, I wanted to post some info.
They are 10' long and almost exactly in the middle of a rec shape and a
day touring yak. They have a nice seat with a padded back. The have a
dry storage compartment aft and decking fore. They are two toned with
the upper half being red and the lower half a tannish color
(Coleman-ish in color) The only thing they lack from the Pelican
Pursuit 100DLX that they are based on are the footpegs. Which I will
just add.
I'll post some pics and more info once I get them out on the water for
a good long time (we've been having T-storms).
Take care,
Dominic
riverman
<dominic...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145808586....@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> UPDATE: Just an FYI to anyone who cares, I picked up the Coleman
> Ultimate 100's the other day for only $229 each on sale with over $100
> off each one. They are extremely well made.
I can hardly believe the words 'Coleman' and 'well made' are in the same
paragraph.
--riverman
dominic...@gmail.com
And with a closed mind you never will. The "Coleman" kayak is not made
by Coleman, but Pelican Intl. with a roto-X hull. The fit and finish
are well above both the Otter and the Otter Sport, as well as a few
other "better" brands I have looked at. Side-by-side they have the
advantage in a number of areas, I highly reccomend that you actually
look at one since they are brand new and then make a decision. As I
stated the only thing lacking was the footpegs.
One of the workers there is a kayak and water safety instructor and he
was amazed at them when they came in last week which is how I came to
seriously consider them at all. We went over them from top to bottom
and there were no defects, signs of poor build, or really anything but
plusses for what they are... recreational kayaks. Add into that the
fact that they were at an introductory sale price of $129 off each and
I basically purchased both of them for the price of one.
Pelican Pursuit 100DLX's get very good reviews around the 'net so these
are no different except for the little name badge and color.
Oci-One Kanubi
canoe money can buy.[1]
This may not be true of the kayaks marketed under their name.
But you need to understand that, as a corporate philospphy, Coleman has
no objection to selling rank and utter trash to newbie customers who
are not equipped to make informed decisions. I try to avoid
patronizing anyone with that marketing philosophy.
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
======================================================================
[1] It is provably the worst by many criteria, although someone who
requires minimal performance and wants something REALLY inexpensive,
yet durable enough to live outside and be battered by clueless users,
it can be a good buy. Say, if you want something to keep chained to a
tree at yer lakeside cabin for the kids to splash around in. 'Course,
if you can afford a lakeside cabin you should be able to afford a real
canoe; one that doesn't include the entrapment hazards (aren't the kids
lives worth SOMEthing?) that the Coleman has.
dtush...@gmail.com
Oci-One Kanubi
Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.
One of the reviled features is that metal skeleton that holds the hull
rigid. We have heard, here on r.b.p, from someone who once worked at
an outdoor shop and from time to time had the task of "assembling"
Coleman "canoes". This is because they come in some fixed number per
container. The hulls are nested inside one another, and these skeleton
members, and the seats and endcaps and whatever are packed inside the
top "canoe". The conclusion we have all drawn from this is that
Coleman "canoe" hull design is driven by the need for packing/shipping
efficiencies, not for anything resembling actual paddling efficiencies
of hullspeed, maneuverability, or stability.
The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing -- lakes and
estuaries, canals and the runaouts from springs. He relates how, on
one occasion when he hooked a big one (aren't they all? Even if it's a
Pastor telling the tale?) he got overexcited, stood up, and capsized
his "canoe". I s'pose I should call it a Coleman so I don't have to
keep typing quotation marks. So, not the end of the world, right?
Problem was, some item of his clothing -- I want to say robes, but that
might be a detail inserted by my imagination -- managed to get pinched
between one of these skeletal members and the plastic hull, so he
souldn't swim to shore or right his Coleman or anything (if you've ever
been in that situation, you know that everything is much more confusing
than would appear evident to an outside observer; there are elements of
panic when yer in the water without freedom of motion, and, of course,
the uncertainty about WHY you have lost yer freedom of motion).
So, the salient facts that stand out in my mind are: "Pastor",
"fishing", "Coleman", "flip", "entrapment by skeletal member", and, heh
heh, his closing remark about how glad he was that none of his
parishioners were there to overhear his language that day!
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
======================================================================
Steve Cramer
> Entrapment hazards ?
>
I _think_ that the kayak has fewer problems in this regard than the
canoes. Rather than an aluminum skeleton, the kayak is made of two
pieces bonded together, so it has enough rigidity from the plastic
alone. Think McDonalds hamburger box with a hole in the top. Enough to
keep from collapsing on itself, that is, not nearly enough to resist
collapsing in a WW pin situation. But on a pond, you'd probably have to
work to get stuck in it, as long as the shell was intact.
Tip o' the hat to OC-1 for remembering the Parson's Tale, which I recall
as quite entertaining in the original.
Steve
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
Wilko
> Probably 12 years ago, here in r.b.p, there was a thread on the
> Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
> at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.
>
> The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
> one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
> Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing
Thanks Richard, that's one story that I will never forget. Every time
these green Coleman hulks come floating down our local stream (they are
used by a local rental company), I think about those discussions on RBP.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
Cyli
>Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
>> Probably 12 years ago, here in r.b.p, there was a thread on the
>> Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
>> at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.
>>
>><snip>
>> The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
>> one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
>> Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing
>
>Thanks Richard, that's one story that I will never forget. Every time
>these green Coleman hulks come floating down our local stream (they are
>used by a local rental company), I think about those discussions on RBP.
I think about a couple of good ol' boys I saw take one down a
combination of class II and class III rapids. It was their second
Coleman. The first they'd had for many years but had to leave wrapped
on a rock and when they came back to tow it off, they found tire
tracks and no canoe.
Between the guys they might have had a bit less than one full set of
teeth, but they were full of good cheer and stories about rivers and
rapids they'd been on. The green Colemans had done well by them.
Not that I'd recommend a Coleman for anything but Class I and flat
water, but they aren't absolute death traps. They're cheap, easy to
buy many places, last a long long time for the occasional weekend
paddler and generally pretty harmless. I've paddled in one a friend
had. It was adequate for the job. They're excellent for rental
stuff, too, though my fav local place preferred aluminum. I didn't
buy either Coleman or aluminum when I got around to getting my own
boat, but I had enough money by then to go for better than the
cheapest.
--
r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.
Don't ask me what time it is lest I'm of
a mood to tell you how to make a clock.