Synopsis of Incident at Raven's Chute on the Chattooga
Christopher Port
This is the most accurate account of what happened to Rachel Troy at Raven'
s Chute Rapid on Saturday, May 29, 1999. It was a clear warm day, the water
level was approximately 1.2' Rachel and her boyfriend where attempting to
cross from river left to river right above Ravens. They choose to make
their attempt beginning at the fairly large rock near the river left shore
about 20ft above the drop. They where wearing bathing suits and footwear.
About halfway across they lost their footing and started to float down
apparently holding on to each other. Both of them washed into the large
channel above the undercut rocks. The boyfriend said he had a hold of her
when they went in but could not hold on and washed out. At that point she
was under somewhere, the boyfriend and another friend managed to get a hold
of PFDs from private boaters and swam over the ledge a couple of times in a
attempt to get a hold of Rachel. In the process one dislocated his shoulder
and both got banged up. Toward the evening a call went out to the Rescue
squads in Oconee and Raben County who headed out that evening in an
unsuccessful effort to locate Rachel. Sunday morning Todd Sanders, Oconee
and Raben County Rescue squads had volunteers out setting up a Telfor lower
to enable them to probe under the undercut. Monday morning a man named Tim
arrived from Charlotte to help execute a method of current diversion
successfully used on other body recoveries. Matt Burford, Dominic Iocco and
Anne Sontheimer from the NOC where part of the team attempting to divert the
current with a large piece of plywood.
In a nutshell, Todd was suspended over the drop in a harness on a line 25ft
directly above, which allowed him to move up and down and back and forth. On
another line at the same height, they attached a large piece of plywood (4'
wide 6' long) with 6 coffee can size holes in it. The idea was that Todd
would help try to lodge the plywood in the channel in an attempt to divert
the current and loosen or try to get a hold of Rachel. In the end there
seemed to be
too much current. Efforts where suspended for a week.
The counties had a meeting and decided to bring divers, dogs and a special
camera in on Saturday, June 5th in an effort to get a conformation of the
location. At first the Telfor lower was setup and the dogs where balayed on
the platform where they "hit" indicating possible signs of Rachel. At this
point the fancy camera (commonly used for bridge inspections) was used to
try and pinpoint the location. Rachel was located about a aft up stream of
the undercut commonly known as the "Green
Room" and lies 5-6 ft. under the surface. (If you buff center, she would be
to your left at the base of the drop) All that was visible was part of her
head, attempts to see her torso where unsuccessful indicating that the body
is in a deep crevice or pothole at the base of the drop. It is the opinion
of the recovery team that any extraction attempt would lead to the
mutilation of the body. In compliance with the families wishes the recovery
efforts have been called off.
Anne Sontheimer
Nantahala Outdoor Center
Chattooga Head Guide
riverman
>
> SYNOPSIS OF THE INCIDENT AT RAVEN'S CHUTE
>
thank you anne. What a sad story for her friends and family.
Has anyone thought of using this fancy camera at GF? And I still like
someones suggestion of dropping a pile of gravel above a drop to divert
the channel to facilitate a rescue, then let the currents erode the
gravel away in a few days. Has this ever been tried, to anyones
knowledge?
--
riverman
.........................
I think, therefore I thwim;
Carpe ropum.
rbp #2
Wilko
>
> Christopher Port wrote:
> >
> > SYNOPSIS OF THE INCIDENT AT RAVEN'S CHUTE
> >
>
> thank you anne. What a sad story for her friends and family.
>
> Has anyone thought of using this fancy camera at GF?
I believe that ideas to that extend were discussed in December.
If I remember correctly the current was way too strong and the
water too turbulent.
--
Wilko van den Bergh quibus(at)xs4all(dot)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Whitewater Kayaker AD&D Dungeon Master
------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that paddling is about fun and safety,
you shouldn't have one without the other...
------------------------------------------------------------------
(c)1999 by Wilko
larry gross
<cp...@gateway.net> wrote:
<snip>
. Monday morning a man named Tim
>arrived from Charlotte to help execute a method of current diversion
>successfully used on other body recoveries. , they attached a large piece of plywood (4'
>wide 6' long) with 6 coffee can size holes in it. The idea was that Todd
>would help try to lodge the plywood in the channel in an attempt to divert
>the current and loosen or try to get a hold of Rachel. In the end there
>seemed to be
>too much current.
<snip>
I think they were on the right track. The trick would be to have
'holes' that can be 'opened' large enough to allow insertion even in a
strong current - in other words.. something that has a lot of large
holes in it so that as soon as you immerse it.. most of the flow would
go through the holes and allow full immersion before it got hung.
Once in place, gradually close the holes until you achieve the
diversion - similar to the way that some dam sluice-ways work but more
portable. The device would need triple layers all with matching holes
but the middle layer could be moved to gradually close the holes in
the front and back layers.
other similar designs that incorporate a basic frame with a moveable
gate would also work.
The device/frame would have to be strong enough to take the force or
else it would just blow apart once the 'holes' are closed..
The Paddleman
<cp...@gateway.net> wrote:
> All that was visible was part of her
>head, attempts to see her torso where unsuccessful indicating that the body
>is in a deep crevice or pothole at the base of the drop. It is the opinion
>of the recovery team that any extraction attempt would lead to the
>mutilation of the body. In compliance with the families wishes the recovery
>efforts have been called off.
>Anne Sontheimer
You know, I know that nobody is happy about this, least of all the
relatives, but the river will soon be around 100cfs. A 100lb body
will have some unhealthy consequences in such a small flow. While I
wasn't involved in the recovery attempt, surely there is a way to
extricate the remains.
This is not the same as leaving our friend's body in Great Falls.
There, nobody knew where it was, and the river was already at it's
minimum, which was somewhere around 1500cfs.
I hope there will be another effort. I, for one, would be willing to
assist in this most unpleasant duty.
-----------------------
For the best in whitewater paddling videos:
http://www.whitewatervideo.com
Gregg Silk
>location. At first the Telfor lower was setup and the dogs where balayed on
>the platform where they "hit" indicating possible signs of Rachel. At this
>point the fancy camera (commonly used for bridge inspections) was used to
>try and pinpoint the location. Rachel was located about a aft up stream of
>the undercut commonly known as the "Green
>Room" and lies 5-6 ft. under t
That is extremely interesting. I looked into this at length last year, and this
is the first time I've heard of water search dogs used under these
circumstances.
Gregg
larry gross
There is an organization called Dog's East where I live and I've spent
some time talking to them and reading newspaper accounts of their
activities and the long and short of it is that the dogs are trained
to 'alert' to smells - of dead things.. bodies.. they use them not
only in collapsed buildings and the such but they use them for water
recoveries. Apparently, they can pick up the scent of a dead person
and 'follow' it to it's source even if it is submerged.
Jez
> thank you anne. What a sad story for her friends and family.
I find the reports and analyses informative and useful but I can't help
think how torturous it must be should friends and family read the
discussions that immediately follow. I know we've been over this before
and I know no one means any disrespect.
This is another that really got to me, thinking of that poor woman's
body held by the river. What a terribly sad event and resulting
situation.
Take care of each other.
Jez
jerem...@covance.com (Reading, England)
"I don't care who's son you are, you're not walking on my water!"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
The Paddleman
platform swinging on the end of a rope of moving water in a rapid!
Lightning
using these dogs to try and locate his body. They were told that because of
the fast moving water, it would not be successful.
Rebecca Lightning
Gary Rappl
The Paddleman wrote:
--
To reply to this message via email, remove the "NoSpamHere" in my
address.
larry gross
I think the logistics in the middle of the river... along with a very
strong flow and wind.. probably would make it difficult.. most of the
dogs/handlers are not whitewater proficient and it would scare the
bejesus out of them. Just out of curiousity... has _anything_ of
Scotts' boat and/or gear been recovered or is it all under?
yakmom
>
> I think the logistics in the middle of the river... along with a very
> strong flow and wind.. probably would make it difficult.. most of the
> dogs/handlers are not whitewater proficient and it would scare the
> bejesus out of them. Just out of curiousity... has _anything_ of
> Scotts' boat and/or gear been recovered or is it all under?
Scott's boat, paddle and helmet flushed out within seconds/minutes of
Scott's disappearance. Nothing else has ever appeared. The rangers told
us that to date 6 months is the longest that has gone before the body of
a drowning victim at the Falls was recovered downstream(several
tourists/fishermen/etc drown each year at the Falls or in Mather Gorge)
was recovered downstream.... More than 6 months has passed since Scott's
disappearance and death.
I appreciated the synopsis of the incident at Raven's Chute.
At times as we worked on locating Scott's body it felt as if we were
working in uncharted territory - until we realized that there were
people who have done extications etc .....I think it is important that
information of this nature be shared.
sheila
Gregg Silk
>>using these dogs to try and locate his body. They were told that because of
>>the fast moving water, it would not be successful.
>>
>>Rebecca Lightning
>
>strong flow and wind.. probably would make it difficult.. most of the
>dogs/handlers are not whitewater proficient and it would scare the
>bejesus out of them.
Exactly. If the dog and handler aren't at ease in the situation, the dog can't
work effectively.
Benefit and risk for the searchers also figure into this: a local dog handler
with extensive ww experience was in a raft on the ice-choked Susquehanna with a
scuba diver and dog. They got dumped by the ice, the dog and handler (with a
dry suit) barely made it the few yards to shore while the diver drowned.
So it helps if the dog team has trained in exactly that type of rescue, they
are local, and conditions are such that the team can operate safely. After all,
these are *recovery* efforts, and not high priority compared to *rescue*
searches for missing children. That's hard to take, but that's how it stacks
up. These folks are volunteers with grueling schedules, grim duties, and more
dedication than most people could ever imagine.
Gregg
Wilko
>
> I think the logistics in the middle of the river... along with a very
> strong flow and wind.. probably would make it difficult.. most of the
> dogs/handlers are not whitewater proficient and it would scare the
> bejesus out of them.
They could have been ferried out to the rocks safely, just as several
other people, like Scott's father Doug, were ferried across. The main
problem would probably have been the turbulent water and the movement of
the air there.
> Just out of curiousity... has _anything_ of
> Scotts' boat and/or gear been recovered or is it all under?
Only his boat, paddle and helmet came out.
I think that every possible (within the limits that is) option to find
him has been tried or dismissed.
Scott has found his last resting place there, and I hope that in due
time all of us who knew him will find some rest as well.
I miss you, Scott.
ca...@ix.netcom.com
The URL is : http://www.thestate.com/story4docs/recover23.htm , I
posted the text because their articles aren't usually available for
more than a day or two.
-------------------------------------------------
Published Wednesday, June 23, 1999, in The State.
Team must tame river to recover girl's body
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By CHRISTINE CRUMBO
Staff Writer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dam-builders, divers and foresters will try Thursday to pluck the body
of 16-year-old Rachel Mae Trois from the clutches of the Chattooga
River.
Trois' body has been trapped there -- drowned -- since May 29, when she
and her boyfriend tried to skip stone by stone across the river from
Oconee County, S.C., to Rabun County, Ga. The girl slipped and was
carried downriver despite her boyfriend's and his brother's attempts to
rescue her.
Forced into a sucking cone-shaped hole in the center of the river,
Trois' body has remained trapped -- partly because spring rains have
fed the river's surge.
Now the rains have subsided around the Raven Rock Rapids. The river has
fallen. And hopes have risen.
Today, convicts will carry through the dense Chattahoochee National
Forest more than 2 tons of materials to build portable dams to ease the
river's flow around Trois' remains.
On Thursday, volunteers will build two dams -- or maybe one long one --
to drive the river away from Trois.
If all goes well, volunteers will capture Trois' body as her father,
Joseph, watches from the riverbanks.
Then they'll take the dams apart and carry them out part by part, the
way they went in.
Wild river pulled Trois under. Rachel Trois came to the river from
Leesport, Pa., a little ways from Reading. She was on vacation with her
boyfriend's family, hiking and exploring the Sumter National Forest in
Oconee County.
On May 29, Trois and her party emerged from a rugged hiking path --
hardly even a trail, really -- onto the banks of the Chattooga.
Georgia lay mere feet away, on the other side of a federally designated
"wild and scenic river."
Trois and her boyfriend decided to skip across. A sure-footed athlete
adept at field hockey and basketball at Schuylkill High School, Trois
wore only a bathing suit.
But then she slipped into the river, slightly above a patch of
whitewater -- at the top of a place where the Chattooga swirls and
drops hundreds of feet.
The river took her, wedging her into an 8-foot-deep hole. When those
charged with her retrieval taped her location on June 5, all they could
see were the top of Trois' head and her left ear, submerged several
feet below the surface.
Trois' father came down for the first time on June 1, on the South
Carolina side of the river, said retrieval coordinator Jay Dresser of
Rabun County, Ga. He has returned several times since.
Dresser said the river had taken about three dozen people during his 37-
year watch in Rabun County.
"We've had one that stayed in the river probably 30 days, and Mother
Nature finally gave it back to us," he said.
Nature is stubborn this time.
Dresser hopes Nature hasn't bested his and his volunteers' expertise or
the wishes of Trois' father, who has summoned help from his entire
congressional delegation, most branches of the Armed Services and --
ultimately -- the Internet. It is there that Joseph Trois found
Portadam Inc., of Hammonton, N.J.
Portadam president Bill Streit traveled to Georgia early this month to
volunteer his services and materials. He will send volunteers today and
Thursday.
Those hoping to retrieve Trois' body aim to build two 20-foot dams to
divert the water left and right of the girl, or one 80-foot-wide dam to
divert it all to the right, Dresser said -- to provide a measure of
safety for the volunteer teams.
What happens if neither plan works?
"I'm not willing to address that," Dresser said flatly. "I really don't
know."
How the retrieval will go. Portadam makes steel and fabric structures
that divert water for marine construction projects.
Because the Chattooga is "wild and scenic," Portadam can't leave any
piece of its dams in the river or along its edge -- nothing fastened to
the rocks, nothing anchored in the river bottom.
Thursday, predicted Portadam spokesman Gerry Mann, volunteers will
begin their dam-building at sunrise. They'll finish five or six hours
later. After Trois' body has been freed, volunteers will take four or
five more hours to tear down the dams.
"I believe this is the first one we've ever done," Mann said of the
retrieval.
Things are looking hopeful. The river has dropped. Silt swirled about
by recent rains has dissipated, so divers needn't worry that their
underwater lights will become useless, their beams refracting wildly
against the mud.
Among the divers and dam-builders will be six volunteers from the three
area rafting companies.
"They know the river very well, and they know how to behave around
water," said David Perrin, who manages the Nantahala Outdoor Center in
Oconee County. "As far as with working with moving water, the dynamics
are the same whether the water is moving around you or you're in a
raft."
Perrin stressed that in 27 years, his company had taken a quarter-
million people down the river -- in life jackets, helmets and rafts --
and lost no one. Neither has either of the other two companies.
Crossing the river on foot is another matter, he said. "The (Raven
Rock) rapid itself should prompt caution, but when you're (16) you
don't know these things, and the river looks calm (above the rapids).
Where she started was fairly placid.
"It was a freakish thing.
"There are places where the river is posted (with warning signs). But
you can't post an entire river."
Keith Mayer of The Reading (Pa.) Eagle contributed to this report.
--
==========================================
Scott Broam
Lexington, SC
The Paddleman
>But then she slipped into the river, slightly above a patch of
>whitewater -- at the top of a place where the Chattooga swirls and
>drops hundreds of feet.
>
Freedom of the press is a great thing, but why can't they get simple
facts right?
I'm glad to hear they're using convict labor instead of the Sikorsky's
that I had heard about to bring in the equipment.
gr...@rtp.ericsson.se
padd...@whitewatervideo.com (The Paddleman) wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:37:20 GMT, ca...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >whitewater -- at the top of a place where the Chattooga swirls and
> >drops hundreds of feet.
> >
>
> facts right?
Maybe if a several dozen paddlers went through => hundreds feet drop?
The rapid isn't even hundreds of feet long.
Billy
Mack-Daddy
> that I had heard about to bring in the equipment.
There's still going to be a significant impact on this "Wild and
Scenic" river, I would guess; maybe more so than if they did use
choppers. I sympathize with the family, but don't most people see this
as an outrageous course of action for a recovery? It blows my mind. I
have run the Section IV four or five times (between about 1.6 and
2.2'), but I can't picture that rapid specifically. Maybe at low flows
the extent of this project is not as bad as what I'm imagining.
Perhaps the labor and huge cost of materials and equipment could better
be used in some other way? Maybe a project that would benefit some
cause that the deceased would have supported?
Y'all (I went to Clemson, so I can say that) that live in the area,
please keep us updated.
David Mackintosh
fallZ...@hotmail.com
http://potomac.pair.com
Riviera Ratt
> >whitewater -- at the top of a place where the Chattooga swirls and
> >drops hundreds of feet.
> >
> facts right?
I noticed the same thing. I'll be a little more charitable, though, and
ascribe the error to sloppy writing or editing. I figure they meant
something like "where the Chattooga swirls and drops over a distance
(i.e., a horizontal distance) of hundreds of feet." That would be kinda
true in the vicinity of Raven's Chute, wouldn't it?
I figure the vertical drop at Raven's Chute and the stuff immediately
below is, um, estimating here, ... 20 or 30 feet?
Riviera Ratt, # 77, Charter member of PFA 4/14/99
Still Rattless in '99!!!
Click of the week updated 6/19/99
for a good time, call http://members.aol.com/RivierRatt/ratthole.html
Mack-Daddy
Mack-Daddy <fallZ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> There's still going to be a significant impact on this "Wild and
> Scenic" river, I would guess; maybe more so than if they did use
> choppers. I sympathize with the family, but don't most people see
this
> as an outrageous course of action for a recovery? It blows my mind.
I
> have run the Section IV four or five times (between about 1.6 and
> 2.2'), but I can't picture that rapid specifically. Maybe at low
flows
> the extent of this project is not as bad as what I'm imagining.
I went back and re-read the newspaper article, maybe I am over-
reacting. Two tons of material probably isn't that much, I'm just glad
I don't have to carry it! They probably will be clearing a road or
wide trail through the woods in that area, or does one already exist?
David Mackintosh
fallZ...@hotmail.com
http://potomac.pair.com
Mary Malmros
The Paddleman <padd...@whitewatervideo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:37:20 GMT, ca...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>>whitewater -- at the top of a place where the Chattooga swirls and
>>drops hundreds of feet.
>>
>
>facts right?
Now, now. They didn't say _vertical_ feet, and they didn't say over
how long. It drops, for hundreds of feet.
>I'm glad to hear they're using convict labor instead of the Sikorsky's
>that I had heard about to bring in the equipment.
I understand her family's need to try and recover her body, but
I was disturbed to hear that her father planned to watch the
process. I can't help but think that he'll be very distressed
by the experience.
Here's a thought: if it _wasn't_ a wild and scenic river, do you
think they would have done the recovery and left stuff behind in
the river? IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
used for the recovery because they have to?
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros Very Small Being mal...@shore.net
"I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart
for the joys of the multitude"
snu...@my-deja.com
Mary Malmros enquired...
>
>
> Here's a thought: if it _wasn't_ a wild and scenic river, do you
> think they would have done the recovery and left stuff behind in
> the river? IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
> used for the recovery because they have to?
>
I think one factor driving recovery would be that the material may be
meant to be reusable; i.e. the cost could go up significantly if left in
place (*if* leaving in place were an option). You can check out the
company at its website: www.portadam.com
> --
>
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::
> Mary Malmros Very Small Being
mal...@shore.net
> "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart
> for the joys of the multitude"
>
--
Flame/Respond via email to isnuffy at yahoo dot com
gr...@rtp.ericsson.se
mal...@shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote:
> Here's a thought: if it _wasn't_ a wild and scenic river, do you
> think they would have done the recovery and left stuff behind in
> the river? IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
> used for the recovery because they have to?
Not knowing the details of Wild & Scenic protection, I was guessing it
meant they would not drill rocks for anchors or leave anchors for the
dams in the rocks/riverbed.
Is anyone there today? I will be curious to hear how this goes, and if
there are any permanent modifications to the flow as a result of the
operation. I'll most likely be down there July 4th weekend hoping to
run a classic line...
Billy
Rivervison
>how long. It drops, for hundreds of feet.
to the uneducated, i'm sure raven's chute looks like a horrific thing.. and
something like seven foot or the 5 falls are pretty falls to hike into and look
at. yeah, i was surprised at the description of the rapid.. yeesh, its a class
III rapid.... its got a name, but it definetly isn't significant.... but
remember, the folks who wrote the article are uneducated in our ways :)
> IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
>used for the recovery because they have to?
yeah, disturbing thought. would they leave it in? ack.. i'd hate to think of
that.. i would hope that the river goddess would do something about it...
btw, mary, after reading your story about oshun i've been doing some reading
about her.. good stuff.. i've just started my wiccan training so i asked my
teacher about her. and she told me some stuff.. i've looked her up on the
net... really really good stuff.. now when i go to the river i've got a name to
put to her. thanks for that info!
-brooke
"I am a woman who speaks with a voice and I must be heard
At times I can be quite difficult.. I'll bow to no man's word"
-from Ella's Song
Mary Malmros
Rivervison <river...@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
>>used for the recovery because they have to?
>
>yeah, disturbing thought. would they leave it in? ack.. i'd hate to think of
>that.. i would hope that the river goddess would do something about it...
She will. Someday. When she gets annoyed about it. She's got a lot
of other projects ahead on the list, though...whole bunch of levees
on the Mississippi, stuff like that. In the meantime, paddlers have
to deal with whatever hazards are left behind.
>btw, mary, after reading your story about oshun i've been doing some reading
>about her.. good stuff.. i've just started my wiccan training so i asked my
>teacher about her. and she told me some stuff.. i've looked her up on the
>net... really really good stuff.. now when i go to the river i've got a name to
> put to her. thanks for that info!
Yer welcome :-) The river goddess has a name, and her name is Oshun!
Michael D. Wilson
Couple thoughts re your post:
In article <7kt9mk$c...@northshore.shore.net>, mal...@shore.net (Mary
Malmros) wrote:
>I understand her family's need to try and recover her body, but
>I was disturbed to hear that her father planned to watch the
>process. I can't help but think that he'll be very distressed
>by the experience.
If I was her father, I'd be there too. I think a father would be
chickens__ not to be. And if I wasn't too old or unable, I'd be helping.
>Here's a thought: if it _wasn't_ a wild and scenic river, do you
>think they would have done the recovery and left stuff behind in
>the river? IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
>used for the recovery because they have to?
I think that, yes, exactly, there would be materials left in place if it
wasn't a W&S river. It's the way people and beaucracies typically are.
Around 20 years or so ago, when I was still young and handsome, a fella
that was on the Clemson swim team went with friends to the Horsepasture
River to do the slides etc. The river was in flood, and something
happened - don't know any details, but the guy drowned. The organized
body recovery operation (led by who I don't know) came in, bull-dozed a
road from NC64 down into the gorge at Turtle Back Falls. Then proceeded
to string 1/2" steel cables back and forth across the river in a number of
places - I suppose to provide support to men dragging or diving the
river. When the body was recovered, a number of the steel cables were
left in place, spanning across above and below Turtle Back. Nice hazard
and catch for logs etc. Nice surprise next time I went to the river. A
year or two before, when I was in high school, I had climbed a tree that
leaned out over the pool at the bottom of Turtle Back, and replaced an old
rope with a new one, that everyone who came could use to swing out and
drop into the large pool. Great fun, and the area was a very popular
swimming hole. The recovery team cut the tree down, who knows why. A
couple of years after the drowning, the cables were removed, maybe by the
same organization, but I'm not sure.
I hope the recovery goes smoothly for the girl's body, the team gets out
safely, takes all their materials with them, doesn't mar the river too
badly, and the family can be left alone to mourn the loss of their child.
Hopefully, there won't be a followup effort to change the river, like with
the family of the guy who died in Left Crack about two years ago.
Regards,
Mike
Mary Malmros
Michael D. Wilson <m-wi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Mary,
>Couple thoughts re your post:
>
>In article <7kt9mk$c...@northshore.shore.net>, mal...@shore.net (Mary
>Malmros) wrote:
>
>>I understand her family's need to try and recover her body, but
>>I was disturbed to hear that her father planned to watch the
>>process. I can't help but think that he'll be very distressed
>>by the experience.
>
>If I was her father, I'd be there too. I think a father would be
>chickens__ not to be.
Pardon me if this is unforgivably graphic -- I do hope that none of
her family are reading -- but what does watching your child's
decomposed body extracted from a river, bit by bit most likely,
have to do with courage? I understand the point that I think you
are making -- that people are risking their lives for this extraction,
and that those for whose benefit it is being done should know
what's involved -- but as I said, I think it'll be a very
distressing experience for the father or for anyone close to her
who is watching. This is a closed-casket funeral in the making,
assuming that they're successful in getting any part of her
remains, and my thinking is that if the remains are that
important to the family, they're all the more likely to be
traumatized if the remains are in bad shape -- as they assuredly
will be.
>>Here's a thought: if it _wasn't_ a wild and scenic river, do you
>>think they would have done the recovery and left stuff behind in
>>the river? IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
>>used for the recovery because they have to?
>
>I think that, yes, exactly, there would be materials left in place if it
>wasn't a W&S river. It's the way people and beaucracies typically are.
[snipper story of Horsepasture recovery]
>
>I hope the recovery goes smoothly for the girl's body, the team gets out
>safely, takes all their materials with them, doesn't mar the river too
>badly, and the family can be left alone to mourn the loss of their child.
>Hopefully, there won't be a followup effort to change the river, like with
>the family of the guy who died in Left Crack about two years ago.
Given that she was a hiker, my guess would be they'd more likely try
to modify the trail, possibly by building a bridge -- and that could
be nearly as big a problem as if they'd tried to change the river,
because most likely it would be a low footbridge that would force
paddlers to portage. I'm curious about the trail itself -- that kind
of crossing seems a little unusual. Is it a well-traveled trail?
yakmom
> Pardon me if this is unforgivably graphic -- I do hope that none of
> her family are reading -- but what does watching your child's
> decomposed body extracted from a river, (lots clipped)
It wasn't that many months ago that another family stood by the river
each day for a week, waiting, hoping that their son's body would be
located......Who knows what they would have done if the locating was
successful and an extrication begun..... My guess is the Dad would have
been there for at least part of the time.....
It seems like a really personal decision - that only the parents
themselves can make -
sheila
ca...@ix.netcom.com
mal...@shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote:
-snip-
>
> Given that she was a hiker, my guess would be they'd more likely try
> to modify the trail, possibly by building a bridge -- and that could
> be nearly as big a problem as if they'd tried to change the river,
> because most likely it would be a low footbridge that would force
> paddlers to portage. I'm curious about the trail itself -- that kind
> of crossing seems a little unusual. Is it a well-traveled trail?
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::
> Mary Malmros Very Small Being
mal...@shore.net
> "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart
> for the joys of the multitude"
>
I'm about positive the trail doesn't *cross* the river - I don't think
any in that area do. There aren't many (if any) places where one can
cross the river on foot at normal flows. Increasing warnings at the
trail head or adding signs at rivers edge are more likely than building
a bridge, especially since this is a Wild and Scenic River.
From what I understand, they thought they could wade across to the
Georgia side, and being unaware of the risk of doing so above a class
IV (?) rapid, tried to do just that.
--
==========================================
Scott Broam
Lexington, SC
Dancewater
(Rivervison) writes:
>Subject: Re: Synopsis of Incident at Raven's Chute on the Chattooga
>From: river...@aol.com (Rivervison)
>Date: 24 Jun 1999 15:15:02 GMT
>
>>Now, now. They didn't say _vertical_ feet, and they didn't say over
>>how long. It drops, for hundreds of feet.
>
>to the uneducated, i'm sure raven's chute looks like a horrific thing.. and
>something like seven foot or the 5 falls are pretty falls to hike into and
>look
>at. yeah, i was surprised at the description of the rapid.. yeesh, its a
>class
>III rapid.... its got a name, but it definetly isn't significant.... but
>remember, the folks who wrote the article are uneducated in our ways :)
>
and sadly, once again showing that class 3 or class 2 water can also kill....
I have to say, those rocks at the top center of Raven's Chute look bad to
me.... and very easy to miss.
>> IOW, are they only planning to remove the stuff
>>used for the recovery because they have to?
I heard today that it has all been removed, and that the attempt to dam the
river has been abandoned. The body was not recovered. The river is also
rising.
stay safe, dance
dancewater
remove "nospam" from address above
Riviera Ratt
That's too bad. Too bad that the family wasn't afforded the closure that they
were seeking.
To me, this is a good example of respectfully working with nature in a
wilderness setting. Yes, they were building (or trying to build) a big-ol'
dam, but they were planning to do it in a temporary fashion, and leave no
trace.
If their only motivation for doing the job responsibly was a set of Fed
regulations, well, that says great things about the Wild And Scenic Rivers
Act. In some instances, it's apparently a necessary and sufficient body of
regulation for ensuring the correct behavior.
Riviera Ratt, # 77, Charter member of PFA 4/14/99
Still Rattless in '99!!!
Click of the week updated 6/26/99
for a good time, call http://members.aol.com/RivierRatt/ratthole.html
Wilko
>
> It wasn't that many months ago that another family stood by the river
> each day for a week, waiting, hoping that their son's body would be
> located......Who knows what they would have done if the locating was
> successful and an extrication begun..... My guess is the Dad would > have been there for at least part of the time.....
IMO That's a pretty good guess.
> It seems like a really personal decision - that only the parents
> themselves can make -
As long as the river itself isn't damaged or left behind in a more
dangerous state than it was before, I think that it is their decision.
If their (direct ior indirect) actions make the river more dangerous to
other people, I'm not so sure. As we both know, in this situation that
you describe, fortunately the Dad took that into consideration.
atolford
<rivier...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> That's too bad. Too bad that the family wasn't afforded the closure that they
> were seeking.
>
> To me, this is a good example of respectfully working with nature in a
> wilderness setting. Yes, they were building (or trying to build) a big-ol'
> dam, but they were planning to do it in a temporary fashion, and leave no
> trace.
>
> If their only motivation for doing the job responsibly was a set of Fed
> regulations, well, that says great things about the Wild And Scenic Rivers
> Act. In some instances, it's apparently a necessary and sufficient body of
> regulation for ensuring the correct behavior.
Ratt on, bro'
--
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