Inflatables
PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN
Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww kayaks.
They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or colapsable
WW boat.
Thanks
Peter
Theodore Marz
Peter,
Two fairly good inflatable lines seem to be those by Vista (Bryson City, NC)
and thrillseaker.
My wife has an early Vista, and I have paddled a more recent one. It seems to
handle pretty well. Quite stiff, self bailing. Surfs, etc. Doesn't have
terribly good speed, but what it has it gets to very quickly. Vista's are
available either through the manufacturer (Brad McAlister), or thru the
Nantahala Outdoor center. The NOC has a web page, but I haven't been there
lately and am not sure what's on it. They are in the NOC paper catalog, and I
know you can order a catalog from the web page. Use Yahoo to find the NOC
url.
Thrillseakers I haven't paddled. They are rented out heavily around where I
paddle. I haven't seen many dead by the side of the river, so I guess they
hold up ok. Design is similar to the Vista, should have similar
characteristics.
Happy Hunting
Ted Marz
H. Paul Jacobson
On 8 Oct 1996, Theodore Marz wrote:
> In article <pamccrac....@Ice.LakeheadU.ca>, pamc...@Ice.LakeheadU.ca (PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN) writes:
> |> Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww kayaks.
> |> They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
> |> the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
> |> more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
> |> can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or colapsable
> |> WW boat.
I think Metzler is now made under the name Jumbo (a Zodiac subsidary?).
A Seattle area inflatable boat shop (mainly carrying the motorized ones
used as sailboat tenders) has some Jumbo boats. REI during their
latest sale (at least in the Seattle area) had a Jumbo Canyon - normal
price in the 900-1000$ range. This one is clearly meant for ww use.
It is about 9-10 ft, lots of rocker, and a 2 piece foam floor (self
bailing) with indentations like a sit-on kayak. Also comes with thigh
straps. I've also seen a longer Jumbo intended for flat water use.
ralph diaz
>I think Metzler is now made under the name Jumbo (a Zodiac
subsidary?).
>A Seattle area inflatable boat shop (mainly carrying the motorized
ones
>used as sailboat tenders) has some Jumbo boats. REI during their
>latest sale (at least in the Seattle area) had a Jumbo Canyon - normal
>price in the 900-1000$ range. This one is clearly meant for ww use.
>It is about 9-10 ft, lots of rocker, and a 2 piece foam floor (self
>bailing) with indentations like a sit-on kayak. Also comes with thigh
>straps. I've also seen a longer Jumbo intended for flat water use.
The right to make inflatables under the Metzler name was bought by
Zodiac, which also owns Sevylor. That right was limited to a certain
period. When that lapsed, Zodiac started making the old models (some
with refinements) as well as new models under the Jumbo name (the
Metzler logo featured an elephant, thus the "Jumbo" name for the line
after Metzler cut off the right to use the Metzler name for the
inflatables).
In this country, the Jumbo division in the US reports to Sevylor and is
also responsible for sales of Pouch folding kayaks (a Klepper rival
that operated in the former East Germany).
To learn more contact the Jumbo/Pouch US Marketing head, Dick Gehr, at
ju...@teleport.com to get a catalog, learn where dealers are, etc.
I'm not as familiar with inflatables as I am with folding kayaks, but
the Jumbo boats look terrific and are both innovative and well made.
ralph diaz
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rd...@ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seyed
The Aire inflatable has been recommended to me as about the best. They
aren't cheap, though! About $1,000. They also have touring inflatables,
but the ones I've seen used most are the whitewater kayaks. I know several
people with Aires, and they really like them.
Bill Tuthill
Two disadvantages: the internal bladders take a day to dry out, and
it doesn't track very well. On the upside, it has fast hullspeed,
and the warranty is excellent.
Here's a list of IKs I made last spring. Note that the Jumbo Canyon
is the lightest weight boat of all. Does this mean it's made out of
thin fabric? I dunno.
warranty
wgt len wid fabric denier weight price years
--- --- --- -------------------- ----- -----
AIRE Lynx 1 31# 10'3" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $899 10
AIRE Lynx 2 39# 12'5" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $1049 10
Incept IK-1 35# 11'2" 37" Haku PVC 1100 25 oz $1099 5
Jumbo Canyon 21# 10'2" 34" PVC 1100 ?? oz $899 1
Momentum 1 39# 10'7" 37" Hypalon 840 37/40oz $889 1
Momentum 2 46# 11'6" 37" Hypalon 840 37/40oz $949 1
NRS MaverIK 29# 9'9" 36" Hypalon 1100 38 oz $849 5?
Padillac 1 38# 9'4" 40" Hypalon 840/1050 38 oz $929 5
Padillac 2 45# 11'9" 40" Hypalon 840/1050 38 oz $1139 5
Soar Lucky 12 52# 12' 40" Hypalon 840 nylon $1300 5
Soar Lucky 16 73# 16' 40" Hypalon 840 nylon $1500 5
Sotar Pro 30# 11' 36" Urethane 4000 33 oz $1219 6
Sotar Elite 35# 11' 36" Urethane 3360 40 oz $1439 12
Thrillseeker ? ? ? PVC with foam floor custom ?
Wing Probe 27# 10'3" 36" Urethane 3600 33 oz $1079 5
prices as quoted by Pacific River Supply 510-223-3675 or
the Boat People 408-295-2628 both in northern California
Larry Laba
In article <pamccrac....@Ice.LakeheadU.ca>, pamc...@Ice.LakeheadU.ca (PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN) says:
>
>Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww kayaks.
> They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
>the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
>more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
>can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or colapsable
>WW boat.
>
>
>Peter
Hi Peter,
Check out our Website: www.soar1.com
We build an inflatable canoe which is the closest to the old Metzeler Canyon
you can find.
Always glad to answer any other questions you might have.
Larry Laba
SOAR Inflatables
Eugene Freadman
In article <pamccrac....@Ice.LakeheadU.ca>,
pamc...@Ice.LakeheadU.ca (PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN) wrote:
> Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww
kayaks.
> They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
> the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
> more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
> can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or
colapsable
> WW boat.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
The Web is great but it doesn't hurt to use your library card every once
in awhile. Once you get interested in something. Like on the web you want
to take everything with a grain of salt.
Canoe & Kayak puts out a buyer,s guide issue towards the end of every
year. The Dec. issue has a fairly good list of inflatables and a reader
action card (just check the lines you are interested in,mail it and
you'll get cataloges.
gene
Jimisnyder
Bill Tuthill wrote:
Subject: Re: Inflatables
From: tut@ishi (Bill Tuthill)
Date: 9 Oct 1996 16:58:34 GMT
Message-ID: <53gljq$c...@fido.asd.sgi.com>
And I noticed the Thrillseeker row was full of question marks and since
Attila (who makes them) lives across the street- I went over and asked for
his prices so I could post for readers info. His info follows:
Custom Inflatables Products
Name weight L W Fabric
$ War.
small large s l s l
s l
basic deluxe b d b d
b d
Thrillseeker 32 35 9'3" 12' 26" 35" PVC 900
1,300
1,000 d
Thrillseeker with 32
oz.
new self bailing 31 34 " " 25" 34"
1,000 1,400
suspension sys.
Thrillkat 18 10' 38"
549
Two P Thrillkat 23 13'8" 38"
749
His warranty is a one year unlimited warranty. His suspension system is
revolutionary and increases hull longevity and enables incredible
performance in creek situations.
FYI I do recieve discounted product from this company but I think they
are the best anyways. Fer what it's worth, Jim Snyder
Lori Maxfield
PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN wrote:
>
> Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww kayaks.
> They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
> the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
> more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
> can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or colapsable
> WW boat.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
I have used several different IK's that have been mentioned on this
thread so far and would recommend that you rent several different brands
before you buy since what you like may vary with your particular needs.
One other thing you need to realize right off is that you get what you
pay for. The higher end IKs are definately worth the price if you can
afford it, but if you're a more casual boater something a little less
expensive might be fine for your needs. If you plan to run class III or
higher, you will likely want to consider one of the "better" boats (any
that are listed in Bill Tuthill's post, for example).
I own a Sunrunner, which is the precursor to the hyside padillac. The
boat is very stable, but heavy. I have been paddling it for about 10
years and it has held up well through all these years including class
III+ multi-day trips. It was a very early generation hypolon
self-bailing and I can tell you that the technology has come a long way
since I bought my boat. I want to buy a new IK, but need to wait until
I finish graduate school (for financial reasons). In the meantime, I've
been renting whenever possible.
When I go out to the Lower Yough in western Pennsylvania I always rent a
Thrillseeker and really love the boat. It handles extremely well (some
say almost as good as a hardshell kayak, although I don't kayak, so I
can't compare). It is perfect for the tight and technical rivers that
are characteristic of the east coast. Some people use them for class V
steep creekin (not me, though- I'm a chicken).
This past summer, I did a multi-day self-support IK trip down the Green
River in Utah (Desolation/Green section) in a rented AIRE LYNX and I
loved that boat as well. With the inflatable floor design it was very
easy to load the boat down with gear for our trip. Even with the
increased weight it was easy to handle, went through waves well, and was
much easier than I expected to paddle through the long flat sections. I
haven't tried an AIRE LYNX on the more technical stuff to campare to the
Thrillseeker, but I do know people that regularly paddle them in class
III+/IV- water and are very happy with them. (Just in case you live
anywhere near there, we rented our IKs from the Boulder Outdoor Center
in Boulder, CO. They also rent Padillacs.)
In summary, I think there are many fine boats out there now to chose
from so you may want to try some different boats before buying. I have
heard various pros and cons about almost all of the boats on Bill
Tuthill's list and I think it just comes down to what your personal
tastes are and what you plan to use the boat for.
Happy Paddling!!
Lori Maxfield
lmax...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu
Jimisnyder
I noticed how I didn't get the spacing right on my previous post. Sorry
for any confusion.
Custom Inflatables Products
Name weight L W $
small large s l s l s
l
basic deluxe b d b d b
d
Thrillseeker 32 35 9'3" 12' 26" 35" 900 1,300
Thrillseeker with
Rod Pitts
In article <325D96...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu>, From Lori Maxfield
<lmax...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu>, the following was written:
> When I go out to the Lower Yough in western Pennsylvania I always rent
> a Thrillseeker and really love the boat.
Do you have any feel for how durable the Thrillseeker is over time? Or
the other inflatables you've paddled?
Thanks,
Rod
Chip Mefford
Rod Pitts wrote:
>
> In article <325D96...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu>, From Lori Maxfield
> <lmax...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu>, the following was written:
> > When I go out to the Lower Yough in western Pennsylvania I always rent
> > a Thrillseeker and really love the boat.
>
> Do you have any feel for how durable the Thrillseeker is over time?
I've been wanting to purchase a "used" thrillseeker for some time. The
only "used" thrillseekers I have seen that were "maybe" available were
seriously thrashed. These boats were years old and had been beaten to
within an inch of their lives. Serious creek boats.
It is my impression that the Thrillseeker is at LEAST as sturdy as any
hardboat as they tend to take the abuse that hardboats cringe at.
Not only that, the Thrillseekers I have seen appear to only do steep
creekin duty and get really beat up, year after year.
Remember I am talking about the Thrillseeker as built by Custom
Inflatables in Albright West Va. There are a lot of Thrillseeker clones
out there, often in violation of Attilas patents.
They are really wonderful boats.
chipper
mitchell richard sociology
Does anyone have any experience sailing any of the above (especially the
Klepper) using a jib and smaller mainsail such as the Klepper "Driftsail"?
There is plenty of discussion about Klepper's big main, pro and con, but I
haven't heard how the above combination works for backcountry paddling.
Obviously it won't go to windward well, or at all, but we want a beam and
and downwind setup that is versatile, compact (fly in ) and safe.
The Balogh and Folbot "Twins" have about the same sail area as the above
combination but we anticipate an upcoming trip with many miles of beam or
rear-quartinging winds. Our Twins rig does not seem too efficient as the
wind moves toward the beam. Will the above be any improvement? Given
your choice, what sail configuration would you select for a week of
southward travel in estuaries with prevailing W, NW winds.
Thanks for your advice.
Rich Mitchell
Corvallis, OR
(541) 752-1323
MarcRos
The Jumbo (nee Metzeler) Canyon is made out out a low stretch polyester
fabric with a PVC coating. This type of material is , in general, quite a
bit lighter than Hypalon coated nylon. Jumbo is built by Zodiac
inflatables in France, and uses the same materials and construction as
Zodiac's other boats. Aire is a good line, but whereas the Hypalon coated
material holds up very well to all sorts of abuse, the seams don't. Call
me if you want more info on the Canyon. Matt at Offshore (Chicago)
773/486-9875
Tom Pohorsky
In article <3262CD...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu>,
Lori Maxfield <lmax...@bcmic.hmc.psu.edu> wrote:
>I own an early version of the Hyside Padillac (Sunrunner) [...].
>I have not paddled the
>current version of the Hyside Padillac, but I imagine that it's an
>improvement over my boat in manuverablity.
You've got a good imagination ! :-). I've paddled both. The Padillac
is an improvement in stability, but not maneuverability. As a comparison,
I would put the Sunrunner halfway between a Padillac (low) and a Achilles
(higher) on the maneuverability scale.
In its time, the Sunrunner was a great step forward in IK'ing. I remember
a great trip down the Cal Salmon at 1000 cfs ... It's still a good boat
even by modern standards.
Tom.
--
- Tom Pohorsky to...@Legato.com
frank malinowski
I have a Folbot with the twins sail and the lateen rig (no longer for sale
new), you may want to add leeboards they may make any sail more effective.
The twin sail is not impressive performance wise but it is safe and easier
to use. Who's in a hurry anyway?
Frank Malinowski
Pasadena, CA
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.961014...@ucs.orst.edu>,
Roger Boutell
>Remember I am talking about the Thrillseeker as built by Custom
>Inflatables in Albright West Va. There are a lot of Thrillseeker clones
>out there, often in violation of Attilas patents.
>They are really wonderful boats.
>chipper
I'm no authority on patent law, but aren't patent rights reserved for
inventors of new technology? I know Attila has trademark protection
on his name (which he should), but inflatable kayaks have been around for well
over 20 years (and kayaks in general... the Inuits would be very surprised to
hear that Attila 'invented' them).
And as for the 'clones' - what part of our society, commerce, or technology
doesn't benefit and evolve from people coming along and tweaking what came
before them to improve and embellish? (And isn't that precisely what Attila
did when he designed the Thrillseeker).
But then, all this advancing technology kinda scares me too!! I think I'll
trade in my Internet access for a couple cans connected by a string.
Randy & Mary Jackson
You need to learn more before you try to pass out info.
AIRE boats have no hypalon.
Randy Jackson
riv...@netreach.net
PETER AUSTIN MCCRACKEN wrote:
>
> Hi I'm looking for any information on Metzler (or) other inflatable ww kayaks.
> They seem to be a rare thing (at least on the WWW). I've seen pictures of
> the two tube open style as well as a modle made by Metzler that looks much
> more like a conventional kayak. has anybody seen/heard anything about these,
> can they be found, how do they handle compared to a conventional or colapsable
> WW boat.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
Hi Peter,
I bought a Metzeler Canyon model about ten years ago. After ten years
all I've ever done is blow it up and roll it up, it's indestructable.
Made of Nylon and Hypalon. However, class III is the biggest water I
paddle. Done some wilderness tripping with it.
Looking at my 1985 brochure I only see two kayaks:
RIVERSTAR S model 17' long, 64 lbs, 4 air chambers, payload 660 lbs., it
has a rudder and appears to be a sea kayak.
TRAMPER S model 12'2" long, 29 lbs, 5 air chambers, payload 374 lbs.,
has NO rudder and looks like a river kayak. This one seems to be what
you are interested in.
Both have backrests for two paddlers, but the TRAMPER has a third
position for fastening the backrest if you intend to use it solo. Both
come with double bladed paddles.
All other models (not inluding rafts) are considered canoes. They have
seats (not backrests) and come with single blade paddles, and 3 air
chambers.
My Canyon model (48 lbs) has 3 chambers (2 tubes and an inflatable
floor). Out of the water it looks like a bananna (hence my endearing
name for it "the Bananna boat"). "Extremely" curved bottom, front to
back and side to side. Very difficult to paddle in a straight line, but
can be done once one has adjusted their stroke. Have no problem turning
360 degrees with one wide sweep of the paddle. It's made for bigger WW
than I will ever paddle. Cost me $550 in 1985, a Kevlar (35 lbs) model
was available for $1500.
Metzeler is a West German Company, the literature I have shows no
addresses so I can't help you there, and the place I got it is no longer
in business. There may be distributors in North America. IMHO Metzeler
is a quality product, but I've never seen any others. If you happen to
find any sources or sites on the WWW, I would appreciate it if you could
email them to me.
Hope this helps,
Frank Snyder
PS - I'm in the process of possibly changing ISP's. If
riv...@netreach.net comes back as a bad address please remail to
riv...@bellatlantic.net)
Tom Pohorsky
In article <3267A0...@library.utah.edu>,
Roy Webb <rw...@library.utah.edu> wrote:
>Has anyone tried the inflatable kayaks made by Jack Kloepfing (sorry,
>Jack, if I misspelled!) of Jack's Plastic Welding in Aztec, New Mexico?
> Jack also makes a little one-person cataraft sort of kayak... Let me
>rephrase that. It's a single seat kayak but with a double tub
I've paddled the cataraft thing. Truth be told, I thought it was a major
dog in whitewater (Chamberlain Falls, NFAmerican CA). It tracked very well,
to the point of poor maneuverability. My friend who owned it sold it to someoneelse after the season, who inturn sold it and on and on.
I hope the more kayak-like things work better. And in agreement with your post,
the workmanship seemed quite good.
Roy Webb
Has anyone tried the inflatable kayaks made by Jack Kloepfing (sorry,
Jack, if I misspelled!) of Jack's Plastic Welding in Aztec, New Mexico?
Jack also makes a little one-person cataraft sort of kayak... Let me
construction, a little frame in between--called the PackCat. I've seen
them on the river quite a bit but never paddled one. He also makes a
more standard one- and two-person inflatable kayak, and while I've never
paddled those I plan to get one as soon as I get the extra cash. I've
never heard anything bad about them, and if the PacoPad, a
mondo-comfortable sleeping pad also made by Jack, is any indication, the
kayaks would be utterly bombproof. I've had a PacoPad for quite a few
years and it's never given a peep of trouble. I know a kayak would take
more abuse than a pad but still the materials, the workmanship, the
engineering bespeak a good kayak. I'm sure they're available in river
stores in Denver or Durango, and I can find them here in Salt Lake City.
And I know Jack has a website too although I don't know the URL.
Roy Webb
Bill Tuthill
Roy Webb (rw...@library.utah.edu) wrote:
> Has anyone tried the inflatable kayaks made by Jack Kloepfing (sorry,
> Jack, if I misspelled!) of Jack's Plastic Welding in Aztec, New Mexico?
These are pretty nice boats. They are the last (?) available IK with
drop stitch floor. The bow and stern are somewhat overly upturned,
resulting in poor wind resistance. I'll add them to my comparison chart
as soon as Jack sends me info on fabric thread count & weight.
I'm not a fan of the Pack Cat. It doesn't pivot well, and drafts deep
in the water, making it unsuitable for technical boating. True, it is
lightweight, but so is the Wing Probe.
Jimisnyder
Rog Boutell wrote:
I'm no authority on patent law, but aren't patent rights reserved for
inventors of new technology? I know Attila has trademark protection
on his name (which he should), but inflatable kayaks have been around for
well
over 20 years (and kayaks in general... the Inuits would be very surprised
to
hear that Attila 'invented' them).
And as for the 'clones' - what part of our society, commerce, or
technology
doesn't benefit and evolve from people coming along and tweaking what came
before them to improve and embellish? (And isn't that precisely what
Attila
did when he designed the Thrillseeker).
But then, all this advancing technology kinda scares me too!! I think I'll
trade in my Internet access for a couple cans connected by a string.""
Attila did not patent a kayak you fool. He pioneered the most
significant design advancement in the history of the sport. The Patent
Examiner who granted the patent is an authority on patent law and deemed
Attila's concepts worthy of a US patent. If you wish to contest it your
lawyer can contact Attila at work at 304-864-3506. Try not to be such
a schmuck. Jim Snyder
Roger Boutell
>Attila did not patent a kayak you fool. He pioneered the most
>significant design advancement in the history of the sport. The Patent
>Examiner who granted the patent is an authority on patent law and deemed
>Attila's concepts worthy of a US patent. If you wish to contest it your
>lawyer can contact Attila at work at 304-864-3506. Try not to be such
>a schmuck. Jim Snyder
My oh my... you'd think I flipped your mother off or something! My point was
that none of the so-called clones out there, that I have seen, are just like a
Thrillseeker. The Thrillseeker is a fine boat - I've spent quite a bit of time
in mine, but I fail to see which feature wasn't used somewhere, by someone
else first - Foam Floor? Greg Ramp had one in his Challenger in the early/mid
80's. The diminishing taper on the tube? I can show you a new product
announcement in an old River Runner mag (maybe from 84/85) of a boat made by
Hyside/Sunrunner predating their 'Padillac' that looks very much like the TS
design. I believe they called it the 'Bullet' - and it's a mystery to me why
they bagged in favor the Padillac.
And I think they all did without calling their customers bad names.
RB
Dave Summers
Roy Webb wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried the inflatable kayaks made by Jack Kloepfing (sorry,
> Jack, if I misspelled!) of Jack's Plastic Welding in Aztec, New Mexico?
> rephrase that. It's a single seat kayak but with a double tube
> construction, a little frame in between--called the PackCat. I've seen
> them on the river quite a bit but never paddled one. He also makes a
> more standard one- and two-person inflatable kayak, and while I've never
> paddled those I plan to get one as soon as I get the extra cash. I've
> never heard anything bad about them, and if the PacoPad, a
> mondo-comfortable sleeping pad also made by Jack, is any indication, the
> kayaks would be utterly bombproof. I've had a PacoPad for quite a few
> years and it's never given a peep of trouble. I know a kayak would take
> more abuse than a pad but still the materials, the workmanship, the
> engineering bespeak a good kayak. I'm sure they're available in river
> stores in Denver or Durango, and I can find them here in Salt Lake City.
> And I know Jack has a website too although I don't know the URL.
>
> Roy Webb
I'd like to nominate Jack for a Nobel. The Super Paco Pad is maybe the
best thing to hit raft camping since canned beer. It is bombproof and
beats a thermarest hands down. Thanks Jack.
Jimisnyder
Rog Boutell wrote:
The Thrillseeker is a fine boat - I've spent quite a bit of time
in mine, but I fail to see which feature wasn't used somewhere, by someone
else first - Foam Floor? Greg Ramp had one in his Challenger in the
early/mid
80's. The diminishing taper on the tube? I can show you a new product
announcement in an old River Runner mag (maybe from 84/85) of a boat made
by
Hyside/Sunrunner predating their 'Padillac' that looks very much like the
TS
design. I believe they called it the 'Bullet' - and it's a mystery to me
why
they bagged in favor the Padillac.
And I think they all did without calling their customers bad names.""
I'm sorry I called you bad names. It's just that it sounded like you were
questioning the existence or legality of Attila's patent which was hard
earned and well founded in my opinion. What exactly were you
contesting? Or were you just criticizing? If you want the details on
the patent you need to research it yourself. So what exactly was the
point of yer original post? Maybe Attila doesn't deserve his patent?
Maybe I misread.
still seekin a thrill, Jim Snyder (who doesn't
work for Attila but is his buddy)
Bruce Wilkinson
Roy Webb wrote:
> And I know Jack has a website too although I don't know the URL.
>
> Roy Webb
tv
On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Roger Boutell wrote:
}In article <54aj67$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> jimis...@aol.com (Jimisnyder) writes:
}>Try not to be such a schmuck.
a little river poor that day?
just kidding. really.
}My oh my... you'd think I flipped your mother off or something! My point was
}that none of the so-called clones out there, that I have seen, are just like a
}Thrillseeker.
Hooray for yankee ingenoodley
}The Thrillseeker is a fine boat - I've spent quite a bit of time
}in mine, but I fail to see which feature wasn't used somewhere, by someone
}else first -
One innovation that may possibly be claimed is the cut-away tube found in
certain Vista ducks. It allows the boat to be much narrower, at the point
where it is usually the widest. This also allows the boat tubes to conform
to the hip gracefully, and the really cool feature is that the hip
region becomes the easiest place to remount the boat, because the top of
the tube at that spot is close to the water line. Yet another advantage is
that the tubes are pretty much out of the way of your forward stroke - so
much so that I regularly paddle with a 203cm paddle, my wife with a 200cm
paddle, and we don't miss the extra wood. I have a few pictures of my
boats at
http://www.cs.unca.edu/~visnius/python.html
happy mounting,
Tom
Roger Boutell
>I'm sorry I called you bad names. It's just that it sounded like you were
>questioning the existence or legality of Attila's patent which was hard
>earned and well founded in my opinion. What exactly were you
>contesting? Or were you just criticizing? If you want the details on
>the patent you need to research it yourself. So what exactly was the
>point of yer original post? Maybe Attila doesn't deserve his patent?
>Maybe I misread.
> still seekin a thrill, Jim Snyder (who doesn't
>work for Attila but is his buddy)
I had a question and slight misunderstanding about Chip Medfords mention of
the patent... that's been cleared up. My intention wasn't to contest,
criticize or otherwise diminish Attila's accomplishments. I was debating the
contention that the recent proliferation of 'high performance inflatables'
violated Attila's design patent... I've seen most and paddled some, and it
seems to that they are all somewhat different than (albeit heavily influenced
by) the Thrillseeker. Different strokes applies here - I know paddlers that
swear by the Thrillseeker, and some that prefer other designs (without naming
names, I know folks who prefer brands that I consider to be COMPLETE dogs - go
figure!).
To reiterate my initial assertion - Attila took what he knew, and what came
before him and synthesized it into an awesome craft... he deserves full credit
and protection for his design... But, like any other product out there, when
you make a trendsetter, there are going to be others that learn from what
you did, and incorporate that knowledge into their own designs - and
a few (again without naming names ;-) ) that make lame attempts at a 'clone'
without understanding what sets the true performers apart!
Make splash, not war,
Roger
Bill Tuthill
IK comparison recently updated with Jack's Yack and Thrillseeker info.
I am not a dealer and have no affiliation with any company listed, other
than being friends with the owners of PRS and BP. Alphabetic order.
warranty
wgt len wid fabric denier weight price years
--- --- --- -------------------- ----- -----
AIRE Lynx 1 air 31# 10'3" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $899 10
AIRE Lynx 1 foam 33# 10'3" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $799 10
AIRE Lynx 2 air 39# 12'5" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $1049 10
AIRE Lynx 2 foam 43# 12'5" 34" PVC+bladder 18/25 oz $949 10
Incept IK-1 35# 11'2" 37" Haku PVC 1100 25oz $1099 5
Jack's Yack 1 32# 10'4" 37" PVC 1100/1200 32oz DSF $1088 ?
Jack's Yack 2 42# 13' 37" PVC 1100/1200 32oz DSF $1200 ?
Jumbo Canyon 21# 10'2" 34" PVC 1100 stretch ?oz $899 1 *
Momentum 1 39# 10'7" 37" Hypalon 840 37/40oz $889 1
Momentum 2 46# 11'6" 37" Hypalon 840 37/40oz $949 1
NRS MaverIK 29# 9'9" 36" Hypalon 1100 38oz $849 5?
Padillac 1 38# 9'4" 40" Hypalon 840/1050 38oz $929 5
Padillac 2 45# 11'9" 40" Hypalon 840/1050 38oz $1139 5
Soar Lucky 12 52# 12' 40" Hypalon 840 nylon $1099 1+4
Soar Lucky 16 73# 16' 40" Hypalon 840 nylon $1499 1+4
Sotar Pro 30# 11' 36" Urethane 4000 33oz $1219 6
Sotar Elite 35# 11' 36" Urethane 3360 40oz $1439 12
Thrillseeker S 32# 9'3" 26" PVC 1000 32oz foam floor $900 1
Thrillseeker L 35# 12' 35" PVC 1000 32oz foam floor $1300 1
T'seeker S SBSS 31# 9'3" 25" PVC 1000 32oz suspension $1000 1
T'seeker L SBSS 34# 12' 24" PVC 1000 32oz suspension $1400 1
Wing Probe 27# 10'3" 36" Urethane 3600 33oz $1079 5
prices as quoted by Pacific River Supply 510-223-3675 or
the Boat People 408-295-2628 both in northern California
DSF = drop stitch floor, SBSS = self-bailing suspension system
* removed from recent PRS listing, http://www.classv.com
tv
On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, tv wrote:
}paddle, and we don't miss the extra wood. I have a few pictures of my
}boats at
}
}http://www.cs.unca.edu/~visnius/python.html
Wrong! Go to:
http://www.cs.unca.edu/~visnius/tube/python.html
I stand corrected. My apologies to anyone who was privileged to stumble
upon my whitewater tales of error.
Tom Visnius
who doesn't work with Vista, but is a good buddy and former assistant.
_T._Moore@muccmail.missouri.edu steve
i would like to hear from anyone who has floated
a Jack's kayak style inflat. cat
does any one want to sell such a boat
may trade for sit on tops
Kayakflow
One day while sittng in the parking lot at the Nantahala river takeout we
were standing by our car which hand a 2 man AIRE Lynx on it. A total
stranger walks on by and starts quacking at us because we had a inflatble.
I thought this to be really rude and mean. After he got past us he
turned and gave us a smirk. Needless to say we were gonna kick his ass.
Tom Pohorsky
In article <55fmmb$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
That would only add to the hostilities. Far better to send him to
a tupperware party.
Boating well (better :-) is the best revenge.
Cya
on
the
river,
Carl Ramstrom
Tom Pohorsky wrote:
>
> In article <55fmmb$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> Kayakflow <kaya...@aol.com> wrote:
> >One day while sittng in the parking lot at the Nantahala river takeout we
> >were standing by our car which hand a 2 man AIRE Lynx on it. A total
> >stranger walks on by and starts quacking at us because we had a inflatble.
> > I thought this to be really rude and mean. After he got past us he
> >turned and gave us a smirk. Needless to say we were gonna kick his ass.
>
This is the type of person we don't need on the river.
What do you bet this person has never taken a rescue course
doesn't know CPR or any first aid and doesn't have a clue as to the
important river access and conservation issues in the area.
The river experience should be as a community of river users after all
we are all there for the same thing and would do better to work together
than to let ourselves be cut up into splinter groups accomplishing
nothing but stupid attitudes like the one you witnessed.
The best thing one can do is ignore idiots like that and just be a
better all around
paddler by knowing what to do in an emergency situation and keeping
abreast of the important river issues in your area and the nation.
And above all having fun :-)
Paddle on
Carl Ramstrom
Captain Chaos ;-)
<cr...@microweb.com>
California Floaters Society (CFS)
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/2223/
11/6/96 2:49:17 PM