Need info on Perception Dancer
Gary Wood
I am a novice considering getting into kayaking. Although we
(my wife and I) have taken only rudimentary lessons, we are
athletic and outdoors-oriented. If we buy a kayak, we want
something that will be a little forgiving to start, but allow
us to progress without becoming obsolete.
A local ad has a Perception Dancer up for sale. The year and
exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
$550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
is not advertised.
I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
or too much rocker, etc ?
Many thanks for any opinions
Gary
Fred Cerutti
wood...@ic.gc.ca (Gary Wood) wrote:
Hi Gary,
I own a Dancer. Actually it is my son's boat. The Dancer is a proven
design. Kind of middle of the road performance, something of a
beginners boat. You will outgrow it, but chances are you can pick it
up pretty cheaply and sell it for what you paid. There is a good
chance that one or the other of you will not progress as quickly or
become as passionate about kayaking as the other, in which case they
might not outgrow the Dancer at all. There are beaucoup Dancers out
there and no problem at all outfitting them. Just for reference, I
paid the kingly sum of $75.00 for mine and it's in great condition.
Don't sweat scuffmarks, they will appear on a new boat before it hits
the water anyway. Hope this helps.
Fred Cerutti
Ken Panton
In article <584hpu$l...@crc-news.doc.ca>, wood...@ic.gc.ca (Gary Wood) writes:
|> A local ad has a Perception Dancer up for sale. The year and
|> exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
|> familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
|> cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
|> $550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
|> is not advertised.
|>
|> I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
|> Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
|> Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
|> or too much rocker, etc ?
|>
|> Many thanks for any opinions
|> Gary
Gary,
There are at least 3 different Dancer models
1. old with a small cockpit (stay away)
2. new(er) with a larger 'keyhole' cockpit (proline?) - the 'standard' dancer
3. Dancer XT - for gorillas and other robust folks.
The Dancer is a full-bodied boat which someone not vertically enhanced
may find large; I think it would be particularly large for your wife, though
you would likely find it a reasonable fit.
As far as price goes, a new one is about $950 MSR. Used for about $500
or less (CDN); they've been around a long time.
If you're in Ottawa, don't feel in a hurry to buy at this time of year.
In fact, you have the perfect opportunity to try out several boats as
the local clubs and (most!) paddlers move in-of-doors for the winter. Drop in
to the pool sessions where they will have kayaks to use (several different
models) and try them out while getting some free instruction to boot, not
to mention all the advice you could ever want ;) .
Another boat you may want to try (amongst others)
is a Pirouette S. This is a smaller volume version of the Pirouette
(my boat) and has sharper lines than the Dancer which are easier for the
river to catch and pull you over (sort of like catching an edge on skis)
so it's not as forgiving as the Dancer. The edges are just something to
get used to though and you will fairly quickly.
I think it may well fit both of you but stop in at Trailhead or the pool
sessions to try one and find out.
The paddlin' crowd is very friendly in this town. Send me an e-mail or
give me a call 798-1953 if you want more info about pool sessions etc;
there's probably one in your neighbourhood - Kanata wave pool, Sawmill
Creek pool, Carleton U. pool, Brewer Park pool.
Happy paddlin'
Ken
Kevin Sulewski
iI used a Dancer from 1989 to 1995. It is a stable forgiving general
purpose boat. The going rate for a used Dancer is $450 to $550 canadian
depending on condition. Be sure to look for the larger "safety" cockpit
rather than the older small cockpit.
You can buy a better (read newer) design for more money if you wish. But
the Dancer will serve you well. After all, it was only 10 years ago that
everyone paddled Dancers
Kevin
On 4 Dec 1996, Gary Wood wrote:
> I am a novice considering getting into kayaking. Although we
> (my wife and I) have taken only rudimentary lessons, we are
> athletic and outdoors-oriented. If we buy a kayak, we want
> something that will be a little forgiving to start, but allow
> us to progress without becoming obsolete.
>
Steve Cramer
In article <584hpu$l...@crc-news.doc.ca>,
>exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
>familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
>cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
>$550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
>is not advertised.
The Dancer was one of the most popular designs around...in the
mid-eighties. It is now considered pretty obsolete. More importantly,
many Dancers still around are old, and therefore getting brittle.
Besides that, they tend to have small cockpits, which are hard to get
out of when you really need to, and they don't make many skirts in
that size anymore.
>
>I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
>Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
>Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
>or too much rocker, etc ?
>
At your sizes a Crossfire, Pirouette S, or several other boats might
be much better. You are going to buy two boats, aren't you? It would
be awfully difficult for the tweo of you to learn to paddle just one.
I guess money is a big issue, otherwise you wouldn't be thinking about
used Dancers. Still, there are a lot of used boats out there that
would be better choices.
Steve
Steve Cramer
Test Scoring & Reporting Svcs
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602-5593
Dan Koretz
Gary--
I have only paddled a couple of years, and I am not a terribly fast
learner, so I am probably closer to a novice than many people who might
answer you.
More modern designs tend to be higher-performance but less forgiving
than some of the older ones. E.g., they tend to be edgier and have
smaller sterns. So, older designs that more proficient paddlers look
down their noses at may be a nice boat to start with.
I paddle a matrix, which is a little bigger than a dancer (I weigh
almost 200 lb) but is also a relatively forgiving "pig boat." After 2
years, I am still not at all too good for it.
You can find boats like this used all the time (at least in my area), so
don't feel rushed. Try a bunch and see what you are comfortable with.
If you buy used, ask how the boat was stored as well as how old it is.
UV degrades plastic.
DMK
Gary Wood wrote:
>
> I am a novice considering getting into kayaking. Although we
> (my wife and I) have taken only rudimentary lessons, we are
> athletic and outdoors-oriented. If we buy a kayak, we want
> something that will be a little forgiving to start, but allow
> us to progress without becoming obsolete.
>
> A local ad has a Perception Dancer up for sale. The year and
> exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
> familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
> cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
> $550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
> is not advertised.
>
> I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
> Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
> Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
> or too much rocker, etc ?
>
> Many thanks for any opinions
> Gary
--
RAND
1333 H Street, NW, Suite 800
Washington, D. C. 20005-4792
phone: (202) 296-5000, x. 5271
fax: (202) 296-7960
http://www.rand.org
pr...@stlvm14.vnet.ibm.com
In <584mt0$g...@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>, pan...@bnr.ca (Ken Panton) writes:
>The Dancer is a full-bodied boat which someone not vertically enhanced
>may find large; I think it would be particularly large for your wife, though
>you would likely find it a reasonable fit.
I agree... do your wife a favor and get her a smaller boat. After two years of
hauling a dancer around the river, I can't tell you how liberating it was when
I got something more my size.
Barbara
DANIEL GLAUSER A
Gary Wood wrote:
>
> I am a novice considering getting into kayaking. Although we
> (my wife and I) have taken only rudimentary lessons, we are
> athletic and outdoors-oriented. If we buy a kayak, we want
> something that will be a little forgiving to start, but allow
> us to progress without becoming obsolete.
>
> A local ad has a Perception Dancer up for sale. The year and
> exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
> familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
> cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
> $550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
> is not advertised.
>
> I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
> Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
> Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
> or too much rocker, etc ?
>
> Many thanks for any opinions
> Gary
Hi Gary, I've been leading kayaking trips at Umass Amherst for about 6
months now. I have spent a lot of time on some hairy class 3 and 4
rivers in the NorthEast (The Dryway on the Deerfield, Lower Moose, West
Branch of the Westfield, etc). I have boated a very old Dancer, as well
as all the beginners on my trips. Here are my opinions:
Good Points
A regular sized dancer (they also come in XT or XS sizes) is good for
people about your weight, maybe a little heavier. I've found for
smaller people the outfitting makes a big deal (outfitting is the
padding, consisting of hip pads, knee padding, a backband or backbrace
and optional footpeg pads). The Dancer is a forgiving boat and is
relatively easy to roll. Ascending is easier in a Dancer than a lot of
other boats. It is a very good beginner boat.
Bad Points
"Hey kid, what's a Dancer good at?"
"I don't know."
"Nothing. But everything that can be done on the river has been done in
a Dancer"
-- Chuck, the guy who often found at Zoar gap doing enders with his dog
on the deck of his C1
This quote just about sums it up, the Dancer is such a long boat that it
gets difficult to turn. As you get better and try to pick your way
through a class 3+ rock garden, the length of the boat becomes a
hinderace. It does force you to be right on with your turns, cheating
is not allowed. The main downside to the Dancer is the cockpit. If it
is an older style Dancer, the cockpit is too small to get out of easily.
You can tell this by sitting in the boat and trying to get out without
sliding back in the boat. If you can it has the newer keyhole cockpit.
This is mostly important in a vertical pin situation.
Overall it is a good beginner boat. It is also usually cheaper. I
think it will be a little big for your wife though. She could do it,
but there are a lot of other smaller boats out there that would be
better.
Better Beginner Boats:
Dagger Crossfire (I recomend this one the most!)
Wave Sport Laser (smaller boat, great for you and your wife)
If the price is right by the Dancer. If you have some money to spend or
find a good deal on a used Crossfire or Laser, I would get that instead.
Well there's my 2 cents.
-- Dan --
Perri Rothemich
I have a Dancer Pro in excellent condition. Willing to sell with skirt
and paddle for $400. I need $$ to buy a creek boat. :-)
Perri
919-512-3026
psro...@unity.ncsu.edu
Sea Bass Sears
In article <587bv8$20...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>,
pr...@stlvm14.vnet.ibm.com wrote:
> In <584mt0$g...@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>, pan...@bnr.ca (Ken Panton) writes:
> >The Dancer is a full-bodied boat which someone not vertically enhanced
> >may find large; I think it would be particularly large for your wife, though
> >you would likely find it a reasonable fit.
>
> I agree...do your wife a favor and get her a smaller boat. After two years of
> hauling a dancer around the river, I can't tell you how liberating it was when
> I got something more my size.
You're lucky you kept at it and are still boating. I know quite a few
people who started in boats that were just *way* too big for them, and
they never continued on with the sport. It seems to me that the people who
start in boats that are correctly sized to them, and therefore manageable
for them, have a much easier time of it.
--
Sea Bass Sears -- Sea...@intbuild.com -- Interface Builders
AWA, IRU -- http://www.intbuild.com -- Ketchum, ID.
Home of Worldgroup for Mac, telnet://wgmac.intbuild.com
Sheila Craig
In article <584hpu$l...@crc-news.doc.ca>,
>exact condition are unknown, but I will be finding out. Anybody
>familiar with this boat ? Can you tell me about its basic pros and
>cons ? The ad says the boat is retailed around $800 Cdn - around
>$550 or so US. Does this sound accurate ? The asking price
>is not advertised.
>
>I am about 5'9", 150 lbs, while my wife is about 5'3" and 120 lbs.
>Could this one boat be suitable for both of us while we learn ?
>Any gotchas to know about with this model ? ie. hard to find skirts
>or too much rocker, etc ?
>
I am a 125 lb 5'3" woman. I paddled a Dancer for the 1st 5 years of my
kayaking life - that was pretty much all there was then! It is a fine
all-round boat for learning to paddle - for both you and your wife (see
point 3 below).
That having been said:
1. $800 Cdn for a USED Dancer sounds pretty steep (unless it includes
sprayskirt, paddle, life-jacket, helmet). I don't know where you are
located, but check with an outfitter for the price of a new one. Last I
checked, you could get a new Dancer at Trailhead for under $1000 (of
course then you tack on the GST...).
2. Is it an "old" Dancer or a "new" Dancer: The old model had the
traditional small cockpit. The new model has a much larger key-hole
cockpit (common to mosts playboats made now). The key-hole cockpit is
almost unanimously considered to be safer (much easier to exit). Also,
plastic does tend to degrade over time with exposure to sunlight. There
are some really old Dancers around out there. For $800 I wouldn't buy a
boat more than 2 years old. Be sure to check for creases or dents - signs
that the boat has been folded. Do NOT buy a boat that has been damaged
this way; it's structure will be greatly weakened. Curliques of plastic
and lots of small gouges are perfectly normal in a boat that has seen
regular use.
3. The Dancer is an old design. There has been an explosion in new boat
designs over the past 5 years or so. It makes choosing a new boat really
difficult. Every boat has its pros and cons. Every one you talk to will
suggest something different.
(Jumping on the bandwagon to promote my own boat...)
When my Dancer was stolen 2 years ago, I chose a Perception Pirouette S as
a replacement. I had tried out various other stand-by's like the Dagger
Crossfire (found it WAY to big for me). I really LOVE the Pirouette S.
Once I had it, I realized how HUGE my Dancer was. The Pirouette S "fits"
me better. I can do things with this boat I only dreamed about in the
Dancer - I'm an advanced but not expert boater (have paddled class 5 but
am much happier with class 3-4). I think it would be very well suited to
a beginner as well as a more advanced boater - and it is PERFECT for a
smaller boater (it would be fine for both of you). It is NOT an "extreme"
playboat, but it has nice lines that make learning surf moves etc. easy
compared to the Dancer.
By the way, how are the 2 of you going to paddle one boat? I suspect you
will very soon find that 1 of you paddles the purchased boat all the time
and the other rents. If you suspect that may happen, pick a boat that
suits one of you, rather than trying to satisfy both - or better yet, buy
2 boats!
Happy paddling (or, more likely since you live in Canada) happy THINKING
about paddling until next Spring!
- Sheila