coleman scanoe - opinions
joer
a flat back canoe. I will be using the boat on gentle rivers and
lakes, with 2 small children and 2 adults. I also will be using the
boat for waterfowl hunting. I wanted to know how the scanoe handles
relative to a regular canoe in terms of paddling, turning, and
manuvering. Any opinions are appreciated.
Courtney Nipper
on it with a motor if you want when you're not paddling it. A flat back
creates alot of drag and slows the boat down.
Courtney
Rapid Adventures
joer wrote in message <7p8sik$t24$1...@calchas.it.luc.edu>...
Jeff
joer@winning-remove-.com (joer) wrote:
> I am looking to purchase either the Coleman 17' canoe or their Scanoe,
> a flat back canoe. I will be using the boat on gentle rivers and
> lakes, with 2 small children and 2 adults. I also will be using the
> boat for waterfowl hunting. I wanted to know how the scanoe handles
> relative to a regular canoe in terms of paddling, turning, and
> manuvering. Any opinions are appreciated.
>
Coleman canoes are *TERRIBLE*! Do a search of this newsgroup to see the
depth of their terribleness... They are heavy, track terribly, and are
an absolute bitch to paddle. The only positive is that they can be
easily left behind when wrapped around a rock, tree, etc. Remember...
Coleman boats are designed to stack well for SHIPPING(!!!) not for
ease of use on the water.
So... If you want to buy the *worst boat* you can go Coleman...
Otherwise... Buy a nice used canoe made by a decent comapny like Old
Town (an excellent choice for general purpose canoes), Mad River,
Wenonah, etc. You'll spend as much as a new Coleman, but get
SOOOOOOOOOO much more boat.
jm
--
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to
watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know
everything there is to be known.
- A.A. Milne
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engelbrecht-wiggans richard
> Look at getting a regular canoe instead of a flat back and put a motor mount
> on it with a motor if you want when you're not paddling it. A flat back
> creates alot of drag and slows the boat down.
>
> Courtney
> Rapid Adventures
Can you provide anything more (references, credentials, etc) to back
this up? I'm not suggesting that you can't, but many sailboats,
rowing skiffs, and even kayaks (eg the Dagger Vesper) have flat backs
at the water line and seem to move along quite nicely.
Richard.
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans, U of Illinois, Champaign, Illinois
email: epl...@uiuc.edu; (217) 333-1088
Michael Vest
Try any book on fluid dynamics/aerodynamics. I'm looking at 10 on my
bookshelf at work, e-mail me if you really want the references.
A body with a flat back will have more base drag then a streamlined body.
For instance, the drag coefficient on a circular cylinder is about 10 times
greater than for an airfoil. (Roberson/Crowe "Engineering Fluid Mechanics")
This is for 2D bodies; 3D is less pronounced.
Many boats have flat back ends. A flat back will move along fine.
A streamlined body will move even easier.
Sorry, fluid flow (aerodyanamics) is what I do for a living. Courtney's
statement is matter-of-fact for me.
Mike
engelbrecht-wiggans richard <epl...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
: Richard.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Michael Vest Mike...@sdsu.edu http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~vest/
David Sorrensen
http://www.outdoorplaces.com/Features/Paddle/pickcanoe/newcanoe1.htm for a
great article on buying your first canoe. It discusses the Coleman
construction directly in the article and compares it to other construction
styles and materials -- and also alerts you to the things you should look at
when purchasing a canoe. This is a commercial site, however this is not a
single brand or material endorsement, you are left to decide what is best
for you. If you read all six pages, print out the glossary, and use the
links, I think you will be a lot better educated for your purchase.
David --
http://www.outdoorplaces.com
Lloyd Bowles
joer <joer@winning-remove-.com> wrote in message
news:7p8sik$t24$1...@calchas.it.luc.edu...
> I am looking to purchase either the Coleman 17' canoe or their Scanoe,
> a flat back canoe. I will be using the boat on gentle rivers and
> lakes, with 2 small children and 2 adults. I also will be using the
> boat for waterfowl hunting. I wanted to know how the scanoe handles
> relative to a regular canoe in terms of paddling, turning, and
> manuvering. Any opinions are appreciated.
I've seen many more Coleman canoes in backyards than any other make but I've
never seen one in the interior of Algonquin Provincial Park. That to me is
a good indication of their worth.
--
Lloyd Bowles
The Mad Canoeist
"Keep the open side up!"
http://madcanoeist.4ever.cc
Longbow270
D.Grabowski
wrote:
>I am looking to purchase either the Coleman 17' canoe or their Scanoe,
>a flat back canoe. I will be using the boat on gentle rivers and
>lakes, with 2 small children and 2 adults. I also will be using the
>boat for waterfowl hunting. I wanted to know how the scanoe handles
>relative to a regular canoe in terms of paddling, turning, and
>manuvering. Any opinions are appreciated.
We have paddled the 17ft. Coleman, forget the flat back in that make.
The standard 17ft. Coleman is like a slug in the water, it will
however get you on the water, just as a bunch of logs tied together
will.
I agree with others on holding out for a better canoe. Don't feel as
though we are ranking on your choice about the Coleman , it's just
that you can do much better. Look for a used Old Town discovery 169 or
a 17 ft. Tripper or possibly even the Penobscot. Several other
possibilities should start showing up in want adds any time now , as
people start selling canoes off at the end of the season.
FWIW, we keep a Coleman Ram X 15 at a remote lake in maine for the
purpose of not having to carry in each time we go there, it remains
tied to that tree year round except for the half dozen times or so we
want to paddle or fish that particular lake. The Ram X isn't such a
bad paddler as compared to the 17 ft. version, though it still
deserves to be set asside most of the time. It's good for what we do
with it , it's not our main ride, it can get bashed by fallen trees
and pushed back in shape for the next season, but IMO, don't ever take
any Coleman in a river period, the keel sucks , the tubing catches
anything that could possibly get caught in that boat, it won't turn
within a pool before you are on your way to the next pool. Just forget
it with the fmaily, get something better and safer, something that is
stable but can be leaned a lot without flipping readilly( good
secondary stability as well as primary).You would be further ahead
with an old Grumman .
Regards,
David Grabowski
>
Riviera Ratt
and speed is
http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/Applied/llazausk/hydro/kayak/kayak.htm
. It's very technical, but I think you'll find that Dr. Lazauskas is no
fan of the flat-back design of the type found in the Colemen being
discussed.
In article
<Pine.GSO.4.10.990816...@staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>,
epl...@uiuc.edu wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Courtney Nipper wrote:
>
> > Look at getting a regular canoe instead of a flat back and put a
> > motor mount on it with a motor if you want when you're not paddling
> > it. A flat back creates alot of drag and slows the boat down.
> >
> > Courtney
> > Rapid Adventures
>
> Can you provide anything more (references, credentials, etc) to back
> this up? I'm not suggesting that you can't, but many sailboats,
> rowing skiffs, and even kayaks (eg the Dagger Vesper) have flat backs
> at the water line and seem to move along quite nicely.
Riviera Ratt, # 77, Charter member of PFA 4/14/99
Still Rattless in '99!!!
Click of the week updated 8/12/99
for a good time, call http://members.aol.com/RivierRatt/ratthole.html
Gary Pagac
My brother has this boat, and i borrowed it once. Took it on a slow
meandering river for seven miles...tough turning it was. One week
later, we rented an Old Town from REI and it did quite well...turned
easily, was stable, etc.
While we are primarily kayakers, we did snag a used Mohawk Nova 16
canoe. It is 16.4 feet long, rather stable, and good overall boat --
got it for $500 including float bags.
My advice: Look for a used major brand of good quality like Old Town,
Mohawk, Wenonah, Bell, Dagger, and Mad River.
RickPB
writes:
>
>I've seen many more Coleman canoes in backyards than any other make but I've
>never seen one in the interior of Algonquin Provincial Park. That to me is
>a good indication of their worth.
>
>--
>Lloyd Bowles
Not trying to endorse Colemans, but a few years ago I was passed by a young
athletic looking guy portaging a Coleman along the Petewawa River.
Rick Bloom
Bubba Fett
> Coleman canoes are *TERRIBLE*!
Two truths:
(1) A Coleman canoe is the worst canoe money can buy.
(2) A Coleman canoe is better than no canoe.
And one opinion:
Most used canoes will cost less and perform better than a new Coleman
canoe, though some will not last so long.
--
Thoughtfully (or not), ATCMS (pronounced
"A-tack-ems"), the attack-dog evil twin (the Dark
Side, if you will) of a really, really nice guy.
Jeff
ric...@aol.com (RickPB) wrote:
> Not trying to endorse Colemans, but a few years ago I was passed by a
young
> athletic looking guy portaging a Coleman along the Petewawa River.
On the other hand... I saw a guy portage one to the local waste
transfer station (really!)... A used Old Town was left behind on the
rack when the Coleman was unceremoniously pitched.
jm
--
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to
watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know
everything there is to be known.
- A.A. Milne
hal...@my-deja.com
Michael Vest <ve...@kahuna.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> Richard,
> A body with a flat back will have more base
drag then a streamlined body.
Surely the point is that the scanoe is designed
for an outboard motor! Then the extra drag of
the flat back becomes less important than ease of
planing, support for the weight of the engine etc.
Sounds fun (for an hour or so) ...
Jeremy
David Obelcz
HP outboard on the lake we summered at. With one person in it, and an 80
lb. sand bag in the bow, we did a measured mile on the lake and clocked the
boat at 17 MPH -- full plane...it was fun -- for about an hour ;-)
--
Take the -pants- off to e-mail
David Obelcz
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hal...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7qimv7$4ii$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
joemil...@gmail.com
> I am looking to purchase either the Coleman 17' canoe or their Scanoe,
> a flat back canoe. I will be using the boat on gentle rivers and
> lakes, with 2 small children and 2 adults. I also will be using the
> boat for waterfowl hunting. I wanted to know how the scanoe handles
> relative to a regular canoe in terms of paddling, turning, and
> manuvering. Any opinions are appreciated.