Self Bailing Floor Designs
Bob Broome
I'm in the process of purchasing a new raft (Self Bailer) and was wondering
what type of floor other rafters prefer - a flat floor or the I-Beam floor.
I previously owned a 14' Achilles SB, but got rid of it because it wieghed
toooo much (168 lb).
From what I've heard, the flat floor doesn't track as well but is faster
and more manuervable, while the ribbed floor supposedly traks better.
There is also a question on warrenty/durability of the floor. Whatever makes
the ribs in the IBeam floors came apart in my Achilles after > 3 years,
and is not covered by the warrenty due to it being an airholding seam? (thats
what my rep said). The warrenty on Sotars differs depending on the floor
purchased. It is longer on the IBeam floor.
Maravia claims that the way they install the floors ( floor is installed
higher up on the tubes), this allows the tubes to help track the boat.
And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Maravia and
Aire boats?
Any comments would be appreciated. I'm looking to purchase something in the
next few weeks. I've already missed alot of good water and am itching to
get out on the water.
Bob Broome
bo...@asi.com
(503)690-1236
Tom Pohorsky
Bob Broome <bo...@adaptive.pdx.asi.com> wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of purchasing a new raft (Self Bailer) and was wondering
>what type of floor other rafters prefer - a flat floor or the I-Beam floor.
I've paddle guided a variety of boats, and prefer the flat floor by a wide
margin. This is mostly interms of performance. I've heard the talk that
they don't hold up as well, though I haven't seen much direct experience
that way.
> Maravia claims that the way they install the floors ( floor is installed
>higher up on the tubes), this allows the tubes to help track the boat.
>
> And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Maravia and
>Aire boats?
Lee from the Boat People says good things about the Maravia flat floor.
Allegedly they're factory tested to something like 20 PSI. They handle
great too. But their coating can be hard to glue to.
I don't care for the Aire boats, only because of how the floor design
holds water. I found it relatively sluggish. The mini Puma's seem
pretty hot, though.
Good luck, Tom.
--
- Tom Pohorsky to...@Legato.com
Norman C. Staunton
> I'm in the process of purchasing a new raft (Self Bailer) and was wondering
>what type of floor other rafters prefer - a flat floor or the I-Beam floor.
> I previously owned a 14' Achilles SB, but got rid of it because it wieghed
>toooo much (168 lb).
>
>From what I've heard, the flat floor doesn't track as well but is faster
>and more manuervable, while the ribbed floor supposedly traks better.
>There is also a question on warrenty/durability of the floor. Whatever makes
>the ribs in the IBeam floors came apart in my Achilles after > 3 years,
>and is not covered by the warrenty due to it being an airholding seam? (thats
>what my rep said). The warrenty on Sotars differs depending on the floor
>purchased. It is longer on the IBeam floor.
> Maravia claims that the way they install the floors ( floor is installed
>higher up on the tubes), this allows the tubes to help track the boat.
> And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Maravia and
>Aire boats?
> Any comments would be appreciated. I'm looking to purchase something in the
>next few weeks. I've already missed alot of good water and am itching to
>get out on the water.
> Bob Broome
> bo...@asi.com
> (503)690-1236
Aire boats are great. I guided one all summer on the Kennebec, and I
couldn't have asked for a better boat. They are very manuverable, and
track fairly well. Their standard comercial boats are great, but the
Super Puma was a blast. Great play boat for experienced paddlers.
Ride a Lynx, too, if you have the chance. They handle any water with
ease. A great ride is to be had in either boat. If you have the
cash, buy an Aire.
-Norm Staunton
Registered Maine Guide
Bill Tuthill
: From what I've heard, the flat floor doesn't track as well but is faster
The flat drop-stitch floors on a Sotar or Maravia do track well, especially
in turbulent water. There are two improvements: less squirelling around,
and less friction for faster hull speed and better control. In particular
I counsel you to avoid I-beam floors with lateral ribs in front and back.
They plow the water in a very disturbing manner.
Performance isn't the problem-- durability is. Drop-stitch involves glue,
and glue doesn't work well on plastic fabrics such as PVC or Urethane.
You can expect your floor to last about as long as the warranty. If made
of Hypalon or equivalent, rubber boats probably last longer. A Colorado
manufacturer actually makes rubber drop-stitch floors.
: Maravia claims that the way they install the floors ( floor is installed
: higher up on the tubes), this allows the tubes to help track the boat.
True, and true of the Sotar as well. You won't find a better performing
boat than the Maravia, which is extremely light and stiff. This makes it
hard to roll up, though. The Sotar performs almost as well, and if you
get a good one (roll of the dice) will probably last longer. Maravias
often do not hold air well, and Sotars are known for uneven workmanship.
The new Wing raft is a third possibility.
: And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Aire rafts?
Pretty good except for the floor. If they could get Maravia to sell them
a drop-stitch floor that would attach to their piano-hinge lacing, this
would be the best boat on the market. There are three problems with Aire
floors: they absorb about 100# of water, which is a drag on performance
(it does make the boat less likely to flip, but so would 100# of rocks).
Also, Aire floors take almost an hour to completely drain, which really
slows down portaging and take-out. The drain holes can easily get torn
by rocks, so these are not good boats for technical rivers.
Don't overlook the Incept from New Zealand. They are well made, perform
well, and offer perhaps the best value in a plastic raft.
Good luck deciding. Perhaps in the years ahead we'll see vast improvements
in raft construction technology. Maybe Spectra fabric with heat-reflective
coating could result in a 14' raft weighing less than 100#.
robert glassmaker
>>
>> I'm in the process of purchasing a new raft (Self Bailer) and was wondering
>>what type of floor other rafters prefer - a flat floor or the I-Beam floor.
>
>
>margin. This is mostly interms of performance. I've heard the talk that
>they don't hold up as well, though I haven't seen much direct experience
>that way.
>> And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Maravia and
>>Aire boats?
>Good luck, Tom.
>
>--
> - Tom Pohorsky to...@Legato.com
Well I have a Maravia Willawa 2 and I love it. Started with a standard floor and
then sent it back to the factory and had them install a self bailing floor.
The boat handles well. I boat with people that own Aire boats and the Maravia out
performs ten to one.
-Bob
RogrB
wide
>margin. This is mostly interms of performance. I've heard the talk that
>they don't hold up as well, though I haven't seen much direct experience
>that way.
I've seen some failures on SOTAR drop stitch floors, but I have yet to
see a Maravia floor failure since they've been using drop stitch (6 or so
years). I can't think of any glued I-beam floors that have as good a
record.
>> And while we're on the subject, what do people think about Maravia and
>>Aire boats?
>Good luck, Tom.
I'm a 'dyed in the wool' Maravia nut. Have been ever since I rowed a
Williwaw I one afternoon about 12 years ago. My two favorite Self-Bailing
rafts are the Williwaw I and New Wave II. IMHO there isn't a boat
anywhere that can hold a candle to the performance of those two boats.
And don't listen to the critics who say you have to trailer Maravias -
BUNK! I can roll a Maravia into as small a package as any other high
quality boat out there. Most of the Maravia owners I know, roll their
boats every time they use them with no adverse effect. (Although, it is
admittedly much more challenging on cold northwest winter days, when the
material gets really stiff).
AIRE also makes a great product, and their customer service is second
to none, but if you want the 'sports car' feel, Maravia's da one!
Roger
Sea-Bass Sears
and really like them both. The only thing to watch for, if you inflate the
floor very hard the boat won't track... kind of like those saucers people
use as sleds in the snow... fast, but no directional capabilities.
Although I've only run one once, the Maravia Ranger seems like a lot of
fun as well. Narrow, lots of rocker, gives a good ride in smaller water
but still seems pretty stable in bigger stuff.
--
Sea-Bass Sears -- DoD #516, BMW R100S -- Interface Builders
74041...@compuserve.com -- AWA, IRU -- Ketchum, ID.
Chris Mitrejean
hear they haven't had a Dropstitch Faliure in the last 3 model years.
Best Warrenty and and is Urethane, and not a bladder or PVC (aire vs
Maravia)
chris
RogrB
I beg to differ - I had a '92 SOTAR dropstitch floor (with a functioning
pressure relief valve) that blew out 3 times in 2 years. I know of
several other owners of '92 through '94 year models that have had floor
failures on flat SOTAR floors. And about the best 'warranty'? Most
people I know who have needed factory service on a SOTAR, have lost the
use of their boat for at least 4-6 MONTHS!
Contrast that to Maravia (whose floor is made of URETHANE - not PVC - the
raft hull is PVC with a urethane coating, but since '93 their floors are
an all-urethane). The floor does not have a pressure relief valve, so it
can be pumped as tight as you like. I know a lot more Maravia owners than
SOTAR owners, yet I have never heard of a Maravia floor failure.
Robert Keller
friends Sotar uses Lexitron (some new space age stuff that is apparently
the toughest around). I talked with several rafters in the Grand Canyon
and they said they would also probably go with Sotar as well. Undoubtedly
Maravia and others are also good boats. My local rafting bud uses an Avon
Pro (has had it for years) and swears by them, although he also uses a
Hyside double tube cataraft for the class V stuff (He says it is easier to
run down kayakers with the cat--more manouverability--he is SERIOUS too).
Anyway, the locals here seem to prefer Sotar as I see them more frequently.
It could be that they are made nearby and that is why I see them more often.
Any raft is a good raft, unless Dennis Schultz is on your tail...
Later,
Robb
Bill Tuthill
: I'm no rafter, I'm a kayaker, but from what I know from my rafter
: friends Sotar uses Lexitron (some new space age stuff that is apparently
: the toughest around).
Lexatron is nothing more than a nylon fabric laminated with polyurethane.
I've heard Maravia uses a similar material for their drop-stitch floors.
However for their tubes they use a PVC material covered with sprayed-on
polyurethane. Urethane is abrasion-resistant has a high melting point.