Sea Kayak Review by a Newbie! :)
Patrick Nance
Ok... My thoughts I have had on several boats during my research in
preperation of buying 2 Plastic Sea Kayaks.
Necky Narpa: Stable. Sturdy. Roomy. But too slow and stable for my taste.
Nekcy Looksha: Great boat. Very Fast. Go good secondary stability. Seat
might be a little uncomfortable for long trips. Rudder kinda tricky to get
up and down. Liked the rudder system in General. Is very sturdy and would
not expect one to break. A Nice touch is a notch that the blade sits in
when down that helps make the blade more rigid.
Aquaterra SeaLion: Two Words: Sea Barge. Didn't much care for this one. It
was fairly easy to paddle, but hard to turn. Plus, since I was demoing the
boats, the boat did not have pads inside. The natural place for your knees
to rest was on a seam (or something inside that was really rough and
uncomfortable)
Dagger Magellan: Didn't Actually Paddle this one. But after seeing one in
person, I don't think I want to paddle it. The rudder system is (looks at
least) very cheap and weak. The rudder "seat" on the stern of the boat
appears to be an inadequate depth to hold the blade when retracted. This
may not be the case.. but it looks like it might cause a problem. The
cockpit opening is way to large for my liking. The seat looked very
comfortable (padded and high seat back). The Bulk heads looked very
sturdy.
Wilderness Systems Alto: Couldn't come to a complete decision about this
boat. I supposed I liked it. It seemed to be slow to start paddling, but
after you got it going, it was fast and smooth. It lacks a front hatch
which is something I need for I plan to do overnight camping trips. We
tested this boat for my wife, because she had said that she wanted
something a little shorter than the 17 foot boats I have been testing. She
liked it, but had a hard time paddling it for some reason. The boats Leans
very well and turns easily.
Wilderness Systems Picollo: Woo Hoo. A VERY Fun boat. Obviously not for
me.. a friends kids were tesing it, but I had to try it. That is a fun,
fast, tippy boat! I hope the friends kids get the boat so I can complete a
more thorough test... :)
Wilderness Systems Sealution II: Probably be the boats we buy. This boat
was really nice. It was smooth and fast. Very easy to paddle.. and leaned
well and consistent. I knew exactly when the boat was going to flip.. and I
flipped it several times just to see the break point and to see if I could
get back into the boat. The seat if comfortable and the inside was smooth
and comfortable even without the fit pads. The rudder system is easy to
use, but dosen't look bulletproof.
Recently I have heard a lot of bad things about the WS boats and some good
things. Some of worst I have seen is that the boats are prone to
nose-plunge in the sea, "oil canning" under the seat, and that WS has had
QC problems with their plastic. I forwarded a list of these and more
concerns to the Harrie Tieken page and hope he will respond. If he does I
will update everyone.
As of right now.. the Sealtution seems like a good boat for the money.
The only other 2 boats that I have thought about testing is the P&H Capella
and the Current Designs Storm or Squall.
The P&H Cappella: I have only seen ads in the paper and on their web site.
The boat looks nice, but does anyone else have questions on if molding the
Rudder bracket into the boat is a great idea? Just does not seem
structurly sound to me. Again, I have not seen the boat in person. there
i nowhere local to paddle the boat anyway, so I will probably not pursue
it.
Current Designs Storm & Squall: Would like to paddle one, but they are
probably the most expensive boat on my list here and being their first
plastic boat... I might would rather wait until they get the "Bugs" workded
out. :)
Rememember,,,, I don't know what I am doing :) These are observations from
a newbie and someone who has been doind this for ... ole.. about a month
now! So if any of my comments above are "out there" then that is why. :)
Any comments?
--
Patrick Nance
Osprey Systems, Inc.
Microsoft Solutions Group
www.ospreysystems.com
Jerry
One comment. You cannot tell if a sea kayak is any good unless you try
it in reasonably strong wind and chop, and you know that you can control
it in these conditions. For this reason flat water demo days are only
marginally useful in helping you to eliminate boats that are
uncomfortable or otherwise clearly unsatisfactory.
Jerry
Patrick Nance
Whoops!
I screwed up. with all these boats running thorugh my head, I got these
two mixed up. (Partly because I have not seen either of these in person.)
It is the Current Design boats that have the rudder support bracket molded
into the boat. Not the Capella. So... Basically, the Capella looks real
nice and gets good reviews.. and would like to paddle one, but probably
will not get the chance.
Patrick
Rachael L Tate
A while back I got a chance to test a Capella and enjoyed it very much.
The boat I tested did not have a rudder but a retractable skeg,
which worked very well. With the skeg deployed it tracked like it was
on rails--even in strong winds (gusts to 40mph). With the skeg up it
turned well--very well if leaned. Initial stability was fine--not a barge
but not too tippy either. It had plenty of secondary stability--it was
easy to put it on its side without feeling as if the boat would tip all the
way over. As for speed--it is not as fast as a Nordkapp, but it is hardly
a barge--at 16 1/2' and with a 22" beam it cruises quite well...spent 22
miles doing circles around the rest of the group....Seat was very comfortable.
-- I did not care for the foot braces...occasionally they would slip, but
that could be adjusted without having to pop the sprayskirt.
The cockpit was VERY large--without thigh braces had I capsized I would not
have been able to roll--I would just have fallen out.
The hatches are a nice size and did not leak. There was plenty of room
for gear--packed it for a two day trip and had LOTS of room left. (with taking
luxury items like eggs...my journal, 4 tents, etc.)
The bulkheads are polyethyline and are welded in...at the time of testing
they did not leak either.
--my main complaint was that some of the clips that held the skeg cable came
undone, though this did not compromise performance...the cable was just in the
way when packing gear...easily fixed.
--also, the plastic had a waxy feel to it that made me wonder if it is
crosslink...
well, frankly, I LOVED this boat and would seriously consider
owning one--it is also available in Fibreglass.
....it is fast, fairly stable, nimble (had no problems dodging rocks and
running down ledges and going through some small rock gardens...catches
eddies well.) The speed allows one to easily paddle against a current--
for most of the trip I was going with the current, but spent some time
paddling upstream against a 5 knot current or more to play around--
I found no need for a rudder with this boat--the skeg is standard and
works wonderfully--
I DEFINATELY recommend thigh braces and LOTS of padding for a tight fit.
Ok...a little about where it was tested--
Two day, 22 mile trip down the Potomac River...Rain and winds to 40 mph...
low water, many rocks...only class 2 though...none of the fun stuff...
Trip with one other kayak and two canoes...towed both loaded canoes for 5
miles...Other boat was a prijon seayak...it was VERY stable, but VERY slow...
as for me, I'm 5'4" and 120lbs...novice kayaker with some whitewater
kayaking experience. (not much...but that'll change soon!)
sorry if that was long and disjointed--but I hope it helps
rachael
--
The best way out is always through.
Robert Frost
John Fereira
In article <5qev2m$n...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fz...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rachael L Tate) wrote:
>
>A while back I got a chance to test a Capella and enjoyed it very much.
OK, I've just about been sold on the Capella.
Now, can someone tell me what it's going to cost me?
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http//www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
Patrick Nance
Ok. As I mentioned in my previous post, I emailed a list of problems that
I have heard of about the Wilderness Systems boats to the Harrie Tieken
Page for comments. Evidently he forwarded the message to Wilderness
Systems for I received an Email from them stating they would like to speak
to me in person (phone) about these issues. I responded with my Phone
number and I received a call from a Mr. John Upchurch within 15 minutes.
"Oil Canning" : Mr. Upchurch admitted that Wilderness Systems had
experienced a "bad" run of Picollos for a two month span that ranged from
the end of 1995 to beg of 1996. They were unaware of any problems as the
boats were manufactored and shipped. Later on they realized that this run
of Picollos had inferior plastic properties that they were able to locate
the cause of, and remedy. Wilderness Systems was sorry and embarrased that
they had let these inferior boats get past QC and were replacing many of
these boats under warranty.
"A Dealer had dropped their line because of QC problems and warranty
support": Mr. Upchurch - Absolutly not true. In fact NO dealer has ever
dropped the WS line for these reasons. He also stated the current WS
warranty is Lifetime Limited (Of course we all know you have to take any
lifetime warranty with a big grain of salt... maybe a cattle salt lick :)
)
Well... thats the big points we discussed. We also discussed a couple of
other "claims" that I had read in newsgroups and had been emailed. I won't
bring these up because I don't think there was ANY truth to them and I
don't want anything here taken out of context, or any slanderous ideas.
BTW: I appologize to Mr. Brian D May for any misspellings or inproper use
of the English language that I may have mistakenly have used in the posting
of this message. Unfortunately, I thought this was rec.boats.paddle not
proper.english.usage. I guess maybe... uh... I got a Life???
--
Patrick Nance
Osprey Systems, Inc.
Microsoft Solutions Group
www.ospreysystems.com
Patrick Nance <pna...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<01bc8f15$8c88ec00$782992cf@patrick-nance>...
> Recently I have heard a lot of bad things about the WS boats and some
good
> things. Some of worst I have seen is that the boats are prone to
> nose-plunge in the sea, "oil canning" under the seat, and that WS has had
> QC problems with their plastic. I forwarded a list of these and more
> concerns to the Harrie Tieken page and hope he will respond. If he does
I
> will update everyone.
> As of right now.. the Sealtution seems like a good boat for the money.
>
> Rememember,,,, I don't know what I am doing :) These are observations
from
> a newbie and someone who has been doind this for ... ole.. about a month
> now! So if any of my comments above are "out there" then that is why. :)
>
Rachael L Tate
If I recall the Capella runs around $1100-1300 depending where you get it.
You may be able to get a demo for less.
rachael
--sorry if the Capella review was lengthy and disjointed--I was a bit tired.
VHilts
ok, I'll bite: what is "oil canning"?
thanks for the rest of us....
KSTRELETZK
> what is "oil canning"?
When the bottom of your boat starts wobbling with every forward stroke;
basically means your boat is shot. If you're in the market for a used
boat, check out it's bottom.
- Mothra
"Getting and spending we lay waste our powers." - Wordsworth
Keith Carr
On 12 Jul 1997 22:44:32 GMT, "Patrick Nance" <pna...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
[ stuff deleted ]
>Nekcy Looksha: Great boat. Very Fast. Go good secondary stability. Seat
>might be a little uncomfortable for long trips. Rudder kinda tricky to get
>up and down. Liked the rudder system in General. Is very sturdy and would
>not expect one to break. A Nice touch is a notch that the blade sits in
>when down that helps make the blade more rigid.
>
[ more deleted ]
>Dagger Magellan: Didn't Actually Paddle this one. But after seeing one in
>person, I don't think I want to paddle it. The rudder system is (looks at
>least) very cheap and weak. The rudder "seat" on the stern of the boat
>appears to be an inadequate depth to hold the blade when retracted. This
>may not be the case.. but it looks like it might cause a problem. The
>cockpit opening is way to large for my liking. The seat looked very
>comfortable (padded and high seat back). The Bulk heads looked very
>sturdy.
>
Interesting comments. I recently bought both a Necky Looksha and a
Dagger Magellan. My opinion of the rudder arrangements is precisely
the opposite of yours: I am impressed by the robustness of the
Magellan's rudder compared to the Looksha's. I also like the "built
in" rudder mount on the Magellan. Seems pretty bomb-proof. You may
want to actually paddle a Magellan. It handles quite differently than
the Looksha, and of the two, I prefer it because its performance
characteristics are more similar to the whitewater kayaks that I
usually paddle. That is, the Magellan seems (to me) to be more of a
"performance" boat than the Looksha. My wife, on the other hand, does
not have much WW kayaking experience and she prefers the Looksha
because she finds it to be more stable (for her). There was a recent
favorable review of the Magellan in Sea Kayaking magazine that you
might check.
Good luck
Keith
alan sherwood
In article <33db4b08...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, kcarr....@pobox.com
says...
>Interesting comments. I recently bought both a Necky Looksha and a
>Dagger Magellan. My opinion of the rudder arrangements is precisely
>the opposite of yours: I am impressed by the robustness of the
>Magellan's rudder compared to the Looksha's. I also like the "built
>in" rudder mount on the Magellan. Seems pretty bomb-proof. You may
>want to actually paddle a Magellan. It handles quite differently than
>the Looksha, and of the two, I prefer it because its performance
>characteristics are more similar to the whitewater kayaks that I
>usually paddle. That is, the Magellan seems (to me) to be more of a
>"performance" boat than the Looksha. My wife, on the other hand, does
>not have much WW kayaking experience and she prefers the Looksha
>because she finds it to be more stable (for her). There was a recent
>favorable review of the Magellan in Sea Kayaking magazine that you
>might check.
>
>Good luck
>Keith
I looked at a Magellan in a store and decided against it based in just that one
look (and sit in it). There were no thigh braces and the cockpit was high in
front and just plain sloppy.. I am a whitewater paddler as well and have no
interest in a kayak that is not set-up to brace and/or roll. I was really
surprised that dagger , being basically a whitewater boat maker, would put out
a boat like this.
No doubt the boat has other favorable traits, but IMHO they could not overcome
this fatal flaw.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Sherwood Take me to the river and drop me in!
Sherwood Internet Design
al...@tiac.net
http://www.tiac.net/users/alans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Carr
On 27 Jul 1997 23:17:01 GMT, al...@tiac.net (alan sherwood) wrote:
>I looked at a Magellan in a store and decided against it based in just that one
>look (and sit in it). There were no thigh braces and the cockpit was high in
>front and just plain sloppy.. I am a whitewater paddler as well and have no
>interest in a kayak that is not set-up to brace and/or roll. I was really
>surprised that dagger , being basically a whitewater boat maker, would put out
>a boat like this.
>
>No doubt the boat has other favorable traits, but IMHO they could not overcome
>this fatal flaw.
>
It's built to take the Dagger whitewater thigh braces. This was
actually one of the selling points for me. You can leave the Magellan
without braces (the cockpit is padded at the knee contact points, but
as you say, it is "high" -- just as a whitewater boat would be without
the braces), or you can install either the "aggressive" or whatever
they call the "less-aggressive" braces. I installed the aggressive
braces in mine, and the boat fits just as a whitewater boat would. My
guess is that with these braces some paddlers might think the fit is a
little *too* tight for touring. but it's what I'm used to in WW boats.
IMHO, Dagger ought to sell the Magellan with the braces installed.
The dealer didn't tell me that thigh braces are available, and it
isn't obvious by inspection; it was only because I had read Dagger's
product literature that I knew the braces were an option.
Keith
RWFarnum
<<ok, I'll bite: what is "oil canning"?
thanks for the rest of us....>>
"Oil canning" refers to a deformed hull (often happens in an old plastic
boat that gets cooked in the sun while sitting on your car rack). Worn or
thin hulls due to extended usage can also be a cause. When your hull is
oil canned (permamently dented or deformed) it's time for a new boat.
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