Dutch Ovens

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Dave Halsall

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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Dear All

Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
shops over in the UK.

All coments welcome

Ta Dave

--

Kirk and Nena Barley

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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Dave

Dutch Ovens are great for their purpose.  There are other light weight ways of baking and cooking.  The ovens are most popular with campers who don't have to consider weight and balance.  Canoe treks often fit this category taking not only a variety of ovens, but the iron stands that suspend them over coals.  They are also useful in more urban (Auto) camping areas.  They cook very well with barbecue coals and can circumvent prohibitions against camp fires and turf scorching with reasonable precautions, and yet retain more of the ambiance of primitive camping and cooking than do petrol or gas cooking methods.

Seasoning, proper care and cleaning, and recipes are key.  There is a wealth on dutch ovens on the net, especially on Boy Scouts or Boy Scouts of America related sites.  I've downloaded many hints, FAQ's and recipe books on dutch oven cooking from them.

--
   ô¿ô

The Barley's
Virginia Beach, VA
 

yakmom

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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Dave Halsall wrote:
>
> Dear All
>
> Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
> shops over in the UK.


they are quite alot of fun in situations where weight does not matter.
My girls learned to cook with a Dutch Oven at the farm where they
portray Colonial children - so they enjoy making stews, fruit dishes ,
breads etc for us in the Dutch Oven. I have been looking for one at the
thrift/junk/resale shop.

sheila

Gregg Silk

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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It's also possible "bake" instant bread or muffin mixes in plastic oven bags
over boiling water using a much lighter pot. It's pretty good although it
doesn't get brown and crusty. It requires little skill and it is nearly
impossible to burn, even on a campfire.
Gregg

Eric Weisenhorn

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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I'd like to know a little more about how you do this neat trick. Like, what
instant bread mix do you use? Are you essentially making a double boiler?
I mean, do you place a pot of water on the fire/stove, prepare the mix in
the bag and just drop the bag in the boiling water? How long do you "bake"
it?

Eric da Grate


Gregg Silk wrote in message <19990214142019...@ng152.aol.com>...

Geoff and Colleen Fuller

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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My wife and I own 2 dutch ovens. We have a 5 quart cast iron oven and a
4 quart cast aluminum (or aluinium? in the UK). If we had to choose a
single piece of cookware it would probably be one of the dutch ovens
(that goes for both "at home" and away). Basically there is nothing you
can't cook in a dutch oven as far as I'm concerned. My preference is
towards the aluminum oven as it is probably half the weight of the the
iron one and foods tend to stick alot less to its interior. I've taken
my aluminum oven on several kayaking trips. It fits easily through the
VCP oval hatches of my kayak or behind the seat.
As far as it being worth the expense. I guess it really depends on
how much one will cost you. The ovens in the US vary from roughly $20
for a quality 5 quart iron model to about $35 for an equivelent aluminum
model. Considering the fact that these ovens will probably outlast your
life span, and I'd say that they are an exceptional value and long term
investment.
I'd be happy to share any more knowledge or recipes regarding dutch
ovens.

Happy Hunting,
Jeff

Brad Snow

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Feb 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/14/99
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I have a friend who's a whiz with a dutch oven. He's always in demand as a
trip member, and blew my socks off one morning on an 8 day trip with fresh
yeast-risen cinnamon rolls. They were better than any from the bakeries in
town.

There are aluminum dutch ovens that weigh considerably less than the cast
iron ones, and work quite as well.

Brad Snow
pad...@mosquitonet.com


Dave Halsall wrote in message ...


>Dear All
>
>Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
>shops over in the UK.
>

SEC

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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Aa6pz

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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I have use a cast iron Dutch Oven on a number of car camping trips. You
set them on hot charcoal, and put more coals on the lid.

Basic recipe for a "cobbler". This will make a great dessert for everyone in
camp.
*First lining the oven with aluminum foil will greatly speed the cleanup.
*Set the Dutch Oven on hot coals.
*Pour in 50 to 80 ounces of fruit, such as canned peaches with most of the
syrup reserved, or cherry pie filling, or whatever other type you like.
*While the fruit is heating, make up some bisquit mix. You can substitute some
of the syrup from canned peaches for liquid in the mix. Or add cinnamon and
sugar to
the mix. Or use a packaged cake mix.
*Carefully spoon the bisquit mix on top of the fruit, which by now should be
getting hot.
*Put on the lid and put coals on to of the lid.
*Carefully lift the lid and check after 10 minutes. The dough should be
starting
to cook, but not browned yet. If it is not starting to cook at all, you need
more
coals. If the dough is browning after 10 minutes, it is too hot!
*After 20 minutes, the bisquit mix should be starting to brown.

After you get the proportions worked out for your oven, it will be done in
half an
hour. By that time, the coals will also burn down in that time, so they will
just keep
it warm if you are not ready to eat.

Hermit

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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Canoe & Kayak Magazine have a review including recipes in the March
1999 issue.

I've used a Dutch Oven for years camping and wouldn't be without it.

Dick

Wilko

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
Dave Halsall wrote:
>
> Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get
> them in the shops over in the UK.

Hmmm, this is yet another example of the English language using
the word "Dutch" that leaves me without any clue! Where does the
term "Dutch Oven" come from (yep, by now I have come to figure
out what they are, but why are they called that)?

A curious Dutchman...

--
Wilko van den Bergh quibus(at)xs4all(dot)nl
Sociology Student at the Tilburg University, The Netherlands, Europe
Whitewater Kayaker AD&D Dungeon Master
--------------------------------------------------------------------
No man is wise enough, nor good enough
to be trusted with unlimited power.
Charles Colton
--------------------------------------------------------------------

John Fereira

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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In article <36C717...@erols.com>, chap...@erols.com wrote:
>Dave Halsall wrote:
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>> Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
>> shops over in the UK.
>
>
>they are quite alot of fun in situations where weight does not matter.
>My girls learned to cook with a Dutch Oven at the farm where they
>portray Colonial children - so they enjoy making stews, fruit dishes ,
>breads etc for us in the Dutch Oven. I have been looking for one at the
>thrift/junk/resale shop.

About ten years ago or so I was backpacking with a group of people in
the southern section of Sequoia National forest. After a long day of
flyfishing for native kern river rainbows we were all back at camp when
one guy wandered off with a large knife and came back with about eight
green sticks a couple of feet long and about as big around as you're
finger. Then he proceed to trim a few of them, wrapped them in aluminum
foil, lashed them together with some twine and the covered the whole thing
with more foil. The result looked sort of like a dutch oven.

Then he grabbed a cookpot and wandered back down the trail and came back
about 15 minutes later with a pot full of blackberries. He went into his
pack and pulled out some bisquick and mixed it up with the berries in a
pan, pushed the "oven" up next to the campfire, and put the pan in the
oven. After about ten minutes, we saw the concoction start to brown and
the smelled the aroma of fresh cobbler and we all looked at each other,
grabbed a cook pot and headed back down that trail. The oven held together
for about five cobblers before it disintegrated but there were sure some
contented happy campers that day.


John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu

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Gregg Silk

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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>Hmmm, this is yet another example of the English language using
>the word "Dutch" that leaves me without any clue! Where does the
>term "Dutch Oven" come from (yep, by now I have come to figure
>out what they are, but why are they called that)?
>
>A curious Dutchman...
>

"Dutch" often means German, as in the "Pennsylvania Dutch" (The Amish). Dutch
can also have a negative spin (Dutch courage, Dutch uncle, Dutch treat), but
these were probably intended as a slap at the Germans at the turn of the
century. I may be wrong on details, but you get the idea.
Gregg

Gregg Silk

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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>large knife and came back with about eight
>green sticks a couple of feet long and about as big around as you're
>finger. Then he proceed to trim a few of them, wrapped them in aluminum
>foil, lashed them together with some twine and the covered the whole thing
>with more foil. The result looked sort of like a dutch oven.
>
>Then he grabbed a cookpot and wandered back down the trail and came back
>about 15 minutes later with a pot full of blackberries. He went into his
>pack and pulled out some bisquick and mixed it up with the berries in a
>pan, pushed the "oven" up next to the campfire, and put the pan in the
>oven. After about ten minutes, we saw the concoction start to brown and
>the smelled the aroma of fresh cobbler and we all looked at each other,
>grabbed a cook pot and headed back down that trail. The oven held together
>for about five cobblers before it disintegrated

"and put the pan in the oven?" I'm not sure I'm picturing this correctly.

But it reminds me that Reynolds now makes "grilling bags" which are large heavy
foil bags big enough to hold entire meals and heavy enough to put directly on
the charcoal grill. It should be possible to make cobbler in these.

And what about "Hobo Pies" that you cook in the long-handled sandwhich-sized
griddle? You put in 2 slices of bread with cheese, chili, or canned pie
filling. I've never tried it with batter.

Gregg

Richard L. Williams

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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Wilko wrote:

> Hmmm, this is yet another example of the English language using
> the word "Dutch" that leaves me without any clue! Where does the
> term "Dutch Oven" come from (yep, by now I have come to figure
> out what they are, but why are they called that)?
>
> A curious Dutchman...
>
>

The source I consulted is: Old-fashioned Dutch Oven Cookbook, by Don
Holm,
1969, Caxton Printers, Ltd., Caldwell, Idaho 83605.

The explanation is contained in the following paragraphs:

"The standard pattern for the Dutch oven was said to have been perfected
by that
imaginative craftsman, Paul Revere. His version was almost identical to
those maufactured
today, although some of his models were equipped with a detachable
frying pan type
handle.

The manufacture of the kettle was common in colonial New England.
Traders from Holland
bought large quantities for barter with the Indians and the frontier
settlers. This is how the
utensil came to be known as the Dutch oven."

Pedantically,
Dick


--
____________________________________
Richard L. Williams
Department of Botany
Iowa State University
Ames, IA 50010 USA
dic...@iastate.edu
____________________________________

Hal

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to rivergrrrl
(a) There's also the idea of "easily transportable" (the Dutch were
always running all over the globe).

(2) Possibility of inexpensive, e.g., Dutch treat? or maybe,

(c) utilitarian (Dutch Amish are known for making things that are
minimalist yet fully functional).


just my $.03 (inflationary value of $.02)
--

Hal

ICQ#2552389
-------------------------------------------------------------
visit my homepage: http://edge.net/~htutor/ updated monthly
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"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men, true
nobility is
being superior to your former self."

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padlnjones

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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padlnjones wrote:

> Dave Halsall wrote:
>
> > Dear All
> >
> > Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
> > shops over in the UK.
> >

> > All coments welcome
> >
> > Ta Dave
> >

> > --

as much as i hate to mention it, on a paddling trip this weekend somebody said that
when you fart in bed and pull the covers over your partner's head, that is called
a "Dutch oven"


padlnjones

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Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
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Dave Halsall wrote:

> Dear All
>
> Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
> shops over in the UK.
>
> All coments welcome
>
> Ta Dave
>
> --

we like to camp and paddle over thanksgiving. We usually cook a turkey breast
in a dutch oven with coals from the fire. Also cook the stuffing, spuds,
vegies, and cobbler in them. works great.

there is a formula for how many charcoal briquettes equals how many degrees F,
but i can never remember it.

another good dutch oven meal: Mexi melt (all ingredient's optional)

layer ground beef, refried beans, onion, peppers, olives, sour cream,
jalapenos, cheese and cheese. Heat thru and eat with chips or tortillas and
salsa. This works on a canoe camper if you pre cook and freeze the meat. you
can pre chop and grate all the other stuff too. the pots are heavy, but you
can feed 10 people out of a big one.


bra...@mtec.net

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
to
Dutch ovens are great, if you want to take the time to cook with them. We
used them extensively when I was a leader in the Boy Scouts but I haven't
used them very much since I got into whitewater kayaking. By the time we get
off the river we are too hungry to wait for charcoal (or coals from a
campfire) to be ready to heat the over. So we moved closer to the rivers and
cook in our kitchen instead of outdoors.

I prefer a cast iron dutch oven, even though it is heavier that an aluminum
one. Once, while I was in Boy Scout leader training our patrol melted a hole
through the bottom of a cast aluminum oven! We sure surprised the
quartermaster!!


In article <na.c75a6d48d4....@argonet.co.uk>,


Dave Halsall <d.ha...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear All
>
> Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
> shops over in the UK.
>
> All coments welcome
>
> Ta Dave
>
> --
>
>

Chuck Brabec

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Jeepyak

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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In article <19990215170640...@ng-fs1.aol.com>, greg...@aol.com
(Gregg Silk) writes:

>"Dutch" often means German, as in the "Pennsylvania Dutch" (The Amish). Dutch
>can also have a negative spin (Dutch courage, Dutch uncle, Dutch treat), but
>these were probably intended as a slap at the Germans at the turn of the
>century. I may be wrong on details, but you get the idea.
>Gregg

Help us Wilko, I remember you telling us about deutsch treat, but what about
the others? Dougie
"I go down with the water and up withe the water. I follow it and forget
myself. I survive because I don't struggle against the water's superior power,
That's all." FTWO Chuang-tse.

rivergrrrl

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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Easy to clean, well-designed, convenient, good to cook potatoes in, perhaps
easily usable in cold, damp weather. (Tried to think of as many Dutch
attributes as I could...at least of all the Dutch people/qualities I know, and
it seems, oddly enough, I know quite a few...a very clean and tidy people)

As far as the true "meaning" or history of the name of the dish, that's best
left to someone with the knowledge of the history of cooking.

Susan, aka rivergrrrl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Be courageous and bold. When you look back on your life, you'll regret the
things you didn't do more than the ones you did."

Susan Schultz
Director, External Relations
Mill Creek Restoration Project
Cincinnati, OH 45219
513/861-7666
respond to: schu...@fuse.net

In article <36C80C01...@xs4all.nl>,
Wilko <qui...@xs4all.nl> wrote:


> Dave Halsall wrote:
> >
> > Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get
> > them in the shops over in the UK.
>

> Hmmm, this is yet another example of the English language using
> the word "Dutch" that leaves me without any clue! Where does the
> term "Dutch Oven" come from (yep, by now I have come to figure
> out what they are, but why are they called that)?
>
> A curious Dutchman...
>

> --
> Wilko van den Bergh quibus(at)xs4all(dot)nl
> Sociology Student at the Tilburg University, The Netherlands, Europe
> Whitewater Kayaker AD&D Dungeon Master
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> No man is wise enough, nor good enough
> to be trusted with unlimited power.
> Charles Colton
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

To reply private-like: schu...@fuse.net

"Be courageous and bold. When you look back on your life, you'll regret
the things you didn't do more than the ones you did."

Jeepyak

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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In article <36C8E5C6...@mindspring.com>, padlnjones
<padln...@mindspring.com> writes:

>as much as i hate to mention it, on a paddling trip this weekend somebody
>said that
>when you fart in bed and pull the covers over your partner's head, that is
>called
>a "Dutch oven"

ROTFLMAO, I would never think of doing that. Dougie

Hermit

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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Dick,

Isn't this a hoot! My real name is also Richard L. Williams.

Regards,

Dick

John Fereira

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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In article <36C8E5C6...@mindspring.com>, padlnjones <padln...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>
>padlnjones wrote:
>
>> Dave Halsall wrote:
>>
>> > Dear All
>> >
>> > Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
>> > shops over in the UK.
>> >
>> > All coments welcome
>> >
>> > Ta Dave
>> >
>> > --
>
>as much as i hate to mention it, on a paddling trip this weekend somebody said
> that
>when you fart in bed and pull the covers over your partner's head, that is
> called
>a "Dutch oven"

No, I think that's called a "boof".


John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu

Wilko

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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Hal wrote:
>
> (a) There's also the idea of "easily transportable" (the Dutch were
> always running all over the globe).

We still are (coming to the U.S. in 36 days!)! :-)

> (2) Possibility of inexpensive, e.g., Dutch treat? or maybe,

That's a German Treat actually... but I'll explain that below:

> (c) utilitarian (Dutch Amish are known for making things that are
> minimalist yet fully functional).

Ehm, although some of the Amish have Dutch ancestors, their heritage
is mainly German, which can be found in their language as well (which
is a very old kind of German, not Dutch).

The German word for "German" is "Deutsch" which, when said by native
English speakers sounds like "Dutch". The term "Dutch Treat" comes
from the old German settlers who paid the bill for their own drinks
and food, but not for the others.

I don't know how many people know that New York was actually called
New Amsterdam, which was started by Dutchman Peter Stuyvesant and
later sold/traded to the British (for Suriname if I remeber correctly).
The area in New York called "Harlem" actually gets its name from the
Dutch city of Haarlem, which native English speakers would pronounce
as "Harlem".

Dunno where the "Dutch Uncle" comes from, but I guess that could be
related to both Germans and Dutch for being very critical... Being
good traders involves not believing everything you see and are being
told! :-)

Cursing like a Dutchman is a British proverb that started when Dutch
fisherman and traders got in contact with the British. The British
were astounded by that abundant use of foul language.
The Dutch are infamous for their use of deadly diseases and other
nastyness when curing or swearing. Typhoid, cancer, cholera, you
name it, we use it to curse other people, and it seems that very
few other languages/cultures do that. So yep, that one has a Dutch
heritage for sure! :-)

The end of todays history lesson...

JAXAshby

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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qui...@xs4all.nl wrote:

>New York was actually called
>New Amsterdam, which was started by Dutchman Peter Stuyvesant and
>later sold/traded to the British (for Suriname if I remeber correctly).
>The area in New York called "Harlem" actually gets its name from the
>Dutch city of Haarlem, which native English speakers would pronounce
>as "Harlem".
>

Also in nyc, Staaten Eyeland (not sure of sp of second word), Todt Hill
(Todt = death. The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).

Gregg Silk

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
to
I wonder if one of those huge super thick aluminum chef-style skillets could
serve as a Dutch oven. I'm thinking of the ones with the long thick handles
riveted on with several huge rivets.

Mary Malmros

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
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In article <19990216165200...@ng128.aol.com>,

What's missing is the bail-type handle, which is pretty important for some
kinds of hearth cookery (you use a crane to move it around). Hearth cooking
a pretty cool thing to watch -- there's a restaurant somewhere in eastern
Connecticut that my brother took me to once that does this. I watched this
guy cook salmon fillets, a lamb chop, potatoes au gratin, Sally Lunn, and I
don't know what else (I think a pudding of some kind) all on this hearth.
All done with big, heavy cast iron stuff that was usually sitting right on
or in the coals...pretty neat stuff.

--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros Very Small Being mal...@shore.net

"They write books that contradict the rocks..."

Lrcable

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
to

The term "Dutch Oven" is a early colonial
term that referred to the fact that the colonist
purchased most of the cast iron products from
traders from the Netherlands, hence the term
"Dutch Oven" refers to were they purchased
them, not the country of manufacture.


SYOTR
Larry C.

yakmom

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Feb 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/16/99
to
Mary Malmros wrote:
>
> In article <19990216165200...@ng128.aol.com>,
> Gregg Silk <greg...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I wonder if one of those huge super thick aluminum chef-style skillets could
> >serve as a Dutch oven. I'm thinking of the ones with the long thick handles
> >riveted on with several huge rivets.
>
> What's missing is the bail-type handle, which is pretty important for some
> kinds of hearth cookery (you use a crane to move it around). Hearth cooking
> a pretty cool thing to watch -- there's a restaurant somewhere in eastern
> Connecticut that my brother took me to once that does this. I watched this
> guy cook salmon fillets, a lamb chop, potatoes au gratin, Sally Lunn, and I
> don't know what else (I think a pudding of some kind) all on this hearth.
> All done with big, heavy cast iron stuff that was usually sitting right on
> or in the coals...pretty neat stuff.


Okay way off topic (no paddling content)- but here is some stuff on
hearth cooking as told to me by my resident Colonial child (circa 1772)

She filled me in on what her "family" does. Remember they are tenants -
tobacco is their only cash crop and that mostly goes to rent.

Dutch Oven: They make a bread out of course flour and cornmeal and an
old fashioned type yeast. "Rebecca" reports that the bread is very
heavy.

Spider Pan: ( a cast iron skillet on legs with a long handle) They fry
pototoes and eggs - this is their daily staple - then whatever
vegatables are available in the kitchen garden. Sometimes for a treat
they will add apples or fry apples separately.

Kettle: (a big iron pot) - meat, veggies etc for stews and soups.

They almost never make pies or cobblers as these would have only been
made for a wedding or other big event. "Rebecca" and her siblings would
have rarely left the farm during their childhood.

For those of you in the DC area the trek over to Claude Moore Colonial
Farm in McLean is well worth doing (rather you have kids or
not).....very authentic and interesting - and you can see a "Dutch Oven"
in action on some days. (Wed - Sun /10 -4 / April 1 - mid Dec)

Now if you come late on a Thursday you may see my daughters jump in the
van in Colnial garb and start pulling out their neo shorts and swimsuits
for a trip over to the river - talk about a time warp!

sheila

Wilko

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
to
JAXAshby wrote:
>
> qui...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
> >New York was actually called
> >New Amsterdam, which was started by Dutchman Peter Stuyvesant and
> >later sold/traded to the British (for Suriname if I remeber correctly).
> >The area in New York called "Harlem" actually gets its name from the
> >Dutch city of Haarlem, which native English speakers would pronounce
> >as "Harlem".
> >
>
> Also in nyc, Staaten Eyeland (not sure of sp of second word),

Eiland is the Dutch word for "island", but the old spelling is a bit
different from nowawdays Dutch.

> Todt Hill (Todt = death.

Hmmm, "Todt" is German for "dead" or "death".
"Dood" is the Dutch version...

> The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
> Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).

"Kil" (one "L") indeed is a channel. It's funny to hear that even
more Dutch names have stayed after the English taking over!

BTW: "Van" means "from" and is a common word used in Dutch family
names: "Van Kull" means "from Kull"

The name "van den Berg(h)" as in "VandenBerg Airforce Base" or my
name for instance means "From The Mountain" or "From The Harbour".

Sorry for sliding off-topic here...
(although channels and harbours do fall into the paddleable
catechory :-) )

Mary Malmros

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
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In article <36CAB0F2...@xs4all.nl>, Wilko <qui...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
>> Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).
>
>"Kil" (one "L") indeed is a channel. It's funny to hear that even
>more Dutch names have stayed after the English taking over!

Where I grew up (upstate NY, also settled by the Dutch), a kill (two l's)
is a creek. Since I've started paddling, I've wondered if some of those
places are boatable (Alplaus Kill, etc.). And then there's the infamous
Schoharie Creek...

John Fereira

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
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In article <7aektt$2...@northshore.shore.net>, mal...@shore.net (Mary Malmros) wrote:
>In article <36CAB0F2...@xs4all.nl>, Wilko <qui...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
>>> Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).
>>
>>"Kil" (one "L") indeed is a channel. It's funny to hear that even
>>more Dutch names have stayed after the English taking over!
>
>Where I grew up (upstate NY, also settled by the Dutch), a kill (two l's)
>is a creek. Since I've started paddling, I've wondered if some of those
>places are boatable (Alplaus Kill, etc.).

The Battenkill certainly is. The Battenkill used to be one of the premier
trout streams in the east but during the spring and summer it gets such
a large polyethelene hatch that it's now practically unfishable.

I often wondered about the derivation of "kill". It seems kind of strange
that watersheds such as the Beaverkill, Battenkill, and Fishkill are
designated as rivers but others such as the Esopus, Schoharie, and Willowemoc
are designated as creeks.

riverman

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
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Oh yeah, right. Like just because you say it in such a self-assured tone
you think we are gonna believe you, with no references or anything.
Hey, buddy, we're ALL river runners here..

Anyway, they're called 'Dutch' ovens because you can *just* manage to
cook a complete Dutchman in one after you've cleaned and deboned him.
Its a holdover from a long-forgotten part of the Mutiny on the Bounty
experience that I don't want to go into great detail with.

--
riverman
.........................

I think, therefore I thwim.
Carpe ropum.
dinnertime!!

Wilko

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
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riverman wrote:
>
> Anyway, they're called 'Dutch' ovens because you can *just* manage to
> cook a complete Dutchman in one after you've cleaned and deboned him.

Hmmm, Does that mean that these ovens grow in size every decade as well?

(The average (complete that is :-)) Dutchman is already over 6'2",
with well over 20.000 of us already being over 6'8" about a decade
ago, probably more by now... at about five pounds per inch, that's
a lot of Dutchman to cook!)

Hey Myron, where does your taste for cannibalism come from?
Don't you think that you've spent too much time in the desert by
now, with you taking over the natives' customs and all?

Lrcable

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
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> riverman <myr...@american.hasharon.k12.il>

Replied:>Oh yeah, right. Like just because you say it in such a self-assured


tone
>you think we are gonna believe you, with no references or anything.
>Hey, buddy, we're ALL river runners here..

I know I shouldn't try to be factual and rational,
it just ruins a good thread.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle
them with Bullshit.

SYOTR
Larry C.

John Fereira

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Feb 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/17/99
to

I just picked up the latest issue of Canoe and Kayaker and there
is a several page article on backcountry cookpot, including a
couple of dutch ovens.

John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu

Gregg Silk

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Feb 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/18/99
to
>
>In article <7aektt$2...@northshore.shore.net>, mal...@shore.net (Mary
>Malmros) wrote:
>>In article <36CAB0F2...@xs4all.nl>, Wilko <qui...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>> The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
>>>> Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).
>>>
>>>"Kil" (one "L") indeed is a channel. It's funny to hear that even
>>>more Dutch names have stayed after the English taking over!
>>
>>Where I grew up (upstate NY, also settled by the Dutch), a kill (two l's)
>>is a creek. Since I've started paddling, I've wondered if some of those
>>places are boatable (Alplaus Kill, etc.).
>
>The Battenkill certainly is. The Battenkill used to be one of the premier
>trout streams in the east but during the spring and summer it gets such
>a large polyethelene hatch that it's now practically unfishable.
>
>I often wondered about the derivation of "kill". It seems kind of strange
>that watersheds such as the Beaverkill, Battenkill, and Fishkill are
>designated as rivers but others such as the Esopus, Schoharie, and Willowemoc
>
>are designated as creeks.
>
>

This came up recently because some animal rights activists were in a lather
about Beaverkill (?) and wanted the name changed, not realizing it means
"stream."
Gregg

riverman

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Feb 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/18/99
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Wilko wrote:
>
> riverman wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, they're called 'Dutch' ovens because you can *just* manage to
> > cook a complete Dutchman in one after you've cleaned and deboned him.
>
> Hmmm, Does that mean that these ovens grow in size every decade as well?
>
> (The average (complete that is :-)) Dutchman is already over 6'2",
> with well over 20.000 of us already being over 6'8" about a decade
> ago, probably more by now... at about five pounds per inch, that's
> a lot of Dutchman to cook!)

Umm, let me check your math here, Wilko. 6'8 is 80 inches...at 5 pounds
per inch...ummm, do you mean to tell me the average tall Dutchman weighs
400 pounds!!?
No wonder that the Netherlands is below sea level!


I'm sure you mean about 3.75 lbs per inch. That's 300 pounds. Subtract
140 pounds for bones, .5 lb for hair (most Dutchmen I know have rather
high foreheads..), another 50 pounds for guts (it takes a lot of guts to
paddle in that cold weather you have up there), another 1/4 pound for
brains (most dutch paddlers *are* kayakers, after all..), another 100
pounds for skin (at least I *hope* you're thick-skinned...), 5 lbs for
those waterlogged wooden shoes, and 2 pounds for that big finger they
use to plug leaky dikes with, and that just leaves a handful of edible
parts. In fact, in a #3 Dutch oven, you can just fit 3 Dutchmen.

> Hey Myron, where does your taste for cannibalism come from?
> Don't you think that you've spent too much time in the desert by
> now, with you taking over the natives' customs and all?

Well, there aren't that many natives here anymore....guess why: too many
dates 'going Dutch'.

I've personally never actually cooked a Dutchman. I prefer hot meals.

But I bet some RBPers have some good recipes.

Wilko

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Feb 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/18/99
to
riverman wrote:
>
> Wilko wrote:
> >
> > riverman wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyway, they're called 'Dutch' ovens because you can *just* manage to
> > > cook a complete Dutchman in one after you've cleaned and deboned him.
> >
> > Hmmm, Does that mean that these ovens grow in size every decade as well?
> >
> > (The average (complete that is :-)) Dutchman is already over 6'2",
> > with well over 20.000 of us already being over 6'8" about a decade
> > ago, probably more by now... at about five pounds per inch, that's
> > a lot of Dutchman to cook!)
>
> Umm, let me check your math here, Wilko. 6'8 is 80 inches...at 5 pounds
> per inch...ummm, do you mean to tell me the average tall Dutchman weighs
> 400 pounds!!?
> No wonder that the Netherlands is below sea level!
>
> I'm sure you mean about 3.75 lbs per inch.

Actually I meant 2,5 lbs per inch... Yep, 200 lbs for my 6'8" frame
which is considered to be normal over here.

> > Hey Myron, where does your taste for cannibalism come from?
> > Don't you think that you've spent too much time in the desert by
> > now, with you taking over the natives' customs and all?
>
> Well, there aren't that many natives here anymore....guess why: too many
> dates 'going Dutch'.

Hmm, I suspect that there just aren't many natives over there any more
because you ate them all!

Pete Dumbleton

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Feb 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/18/99
to
On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, yakmom wrote:

> they are quite alot of fun in situations where weight does not matter.
> My girls learned to cook with a Dutch Oven at the farm where they
> portray Colonial children - so they enjoy making stews, fruit dishes ,
> breads etc for us in the Dutch Oven. I have been looking for one at the
> thrift/junk/resale shop.

CampMor catalog has cast-aluminum ones, but not at junk prices...


tuolumn...@mailexcite.com

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Feb 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/19/99
to
Dutch ovens come in many sizes and in both cast
iron and alumnium. You can cook anything you'd
use an oven for at home. It can be used to deep
fry food also. Breads, beans, roast,
chicken'ndumplings, cobbler, and cakes etc. Try
a search using *dutch oven cooking* to see some
recipe ideas. In warm weather a twleve inch
dutch oven uses about 6 briquets under it, and
twelve on top for 350 degrees. Freezing weather
takes twice as many. Campfire coals work real
well.
Barry_Vee
In article
<7aaerc$fpg$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
rivergrrrl <river...@my-dejanews.com>
wrote:

> Easy to clean, well-designed, convenient, good to cook potatoes in, perhaps
> easily usable in cold, damp weather. (Tried to think of as many Dutch
> attributes as I could...at least of all the Dutch people/qualities I know, and
> it seems, oddly enough, I know quite a few...a very clean and tidy people)
>
> As far as the true "meaning" or history of the name of the dish, that's best
> left to someone with the knowledge of the history of cooking.
>
> Susan, aka rivergrrrl
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Be courageous and bold. When you look back on your life, you'll regret the
> things you didn't do more than the ones you did."
>
> Susan Schultz
> Director, External Relations
> Mill Creek Restoration Project
> Cincinnati, OH 45219
> 513/861-7666
> respond to: schu...@fuse.net
>
> In article <36C80C01...@xs4all.nl>,
> Wilko <qui...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > Dave Halsall wrote:
> > >
> > > Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get
> > > them in the shops over in the UK.
> >
> > Hmmm, this is yet another example of the English language using
> > the word "Dutch" that leaves me without any clue! Where does the
> > term "Dutch Oven" come from (yep, by now I have come to figure
> > out what they are, but why are they called that)?
> >
> > A curious Dutchman...
> >
> > --
> > Wilko van den Bergh quibus(at)xs4all(dot)nl
> > Sociology Student at the Tilburg University, The Netherlands, Europe
> > Whitewater Kayaker AD&D Dungeon Master
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > No man is wise enough, nor good enough
> > to be trusted with unlimited power.
> > Charles Colton
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>

riverman

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Feb 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/19/99
to
Wilko wrote:
>
> riverman wrote:
> >
> > Wilko wrote:
> > >
> > > riverman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, they're called 'Dutch' ovens because you can *just* manage to
> > > > cook a complete Dutchman in one after you've cleaned and deboned him.
> > >
> > > Hey Myron, where does your taste for cannibalism come from?
> > > Don't you think that you've spent too much time in the desert by
> > > now, with you taking over the natives' customs and all?
> >
> > Well, there aren't that many natives here anymore....guess why: too many
> > dates 'going Dutch'.
>
> Hmm, I suspect that there just aren't many natives over there any more
> because you ate them all!

No, no! We don't have Dutch ovens here. But we do have Syrian Bread,
which accounts for the present tensions with Syria.

Don Rumrill

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Feb 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/19/99
to
Albany N.Y. was settled by the Dutch earlier than NYC and
was called Fort Orange. An interesting sidelight is that the
"New Yowk" and "Wawbany" accents are closely related
and find their origins with the Dutch settlers.

Wilko wrote:

> JAXAshby wrote:
> >
> > qui...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >
> > >New York was actually called
> > >New Amsterdam, which was started by Dutchman Peter Stuyvesant and
> > >later sold/traded to the British (for Suriname if I remeber correctly).
> > >The area in New York called "Harlem" actually gets its name from the
> > >Dutch city of Haarlem, which native English speakers would pronounce
> > >as "Harlem".
> > >
> >
> > Also in nyc, Staaten Eyeland (not sure of sp of second word),
>
> Eiland is the Dutch word for "island", but the old spelling is a bit
> different from nowawdays Dutch.
>
> > Todt Hill (Todt = death.
>
> Hmmm, "Todt" is German for "dead" or "death".
> "Dood" is the Dutch version...
>

> > The hill was an execution place on Dutch Staten Island.), Kill
> > Van Kull and Great Kills (Kill = channel or canal).
>
> "Kil" (one "L") indeed is a channel. It's funny to hear that even
> more Dutch names have stayed after the English taking over!
>

> BTW: "Van" means "from" and is a common word used in Dutch family
> names: "Van Kull" means "from Kull"
>
> The name "van den Berg(h)" as in "VandenBerg Airforce Base" or my
> name for instance means "From The Mountain" or "From The Harbour".
>
> Sorry for sliding off-topic here...
> (although channels and harbours do fall into the paddleable
> catechory :-) )
>

Lrcable

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Feb 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/20/99
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>Pete Dumbleton <sf...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>

Replied:>On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, yakmom wrote:

<snip>>> My girls learned to cook with a Dutch Oven at the farm where they


>> portray Colonial children - so they enjoy making stews, fruit dishes ,
>> breads etc for us in the Dutch Oven. I have been looking for one at the
>> thrift/junk/resale shop.

>CampMor catalog has cast-aluminum ones, but not at junk prices...

Lodge Mfg in Tennessee still makes a selection
of cast iron Dutch Ovens (and other cast iron
cooking utensils). Check the website at www.lodgemfg.com
SYOTR
Larry C.

Hermit

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Feb 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/21/99
to

Check Walmart if you have one in your area. I saw one manufactured by
Lodge for about $35 - not a bad price. It has the stubby legs and the
cover has the lip for holding hot coals. I think it was the 12"
model.

Dick

Dave Halsall

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99
to
Dear All
Thanks for all the postings. Looks like I better go out and get one, I
think it is going to take a little getting used to cooking with one though.
Dave
A UK paddler

--

Colorado River Rat

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Feb 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/23/99
to
For multiday trips and camping, they are great. Hard to learn at
first, but once you get the hang of it, yummy stuff for dinner.

On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:50:14 GMT, Dave Halsall
<d.ha...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>Dear All


>
>Are Dutch Ovens worth their money? We have just started to get them in the
>shops over in the UK.
>

>All coments welcome
>
>Ta Dave
>
>--
>
>

Roger Lynn
CORiv...@Yahoo.com


Tom Smith

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Feb 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/23/99
to
Colorado River Rat wrote:
>
> For multiday trips and camping, they are great.

I've used dutch ovens for years. Had great success with them. A book
called Cast-iron Cooking by A.D. Livingston is a good guide for
care and feeding of cast iron (seasoning), and some very good recipes.
Publisher is Lyons and Burford.

Gregg Silk

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Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99
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I was going to troll about the new titanium dutch ovens, but no...

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