Beginner question: kayak or canoe faster?
Tom Rodgers
weekend for my first adventure race in Texas. Obviously, you folks have
higher-tech gear, but for a one-time tryout, which is better? If I like
this, I might get into more expensive boats later. Lord knows I've spent
$6000 on a bike for triathlons, why not a boat?
Thanks,
Ted Marz
In general, all other things being equal (or not), the craft with the
longest wetted waterline will be faster. This is called "hull speed".
This is modified by the weight of the craft. If the craft is so heavy (or
otherwise inefficient) that you cannot reach hull speed, then any extra
waterline is wasted.
Beyond this, you start getting into ergonomics... will a kayak or a canoe
have better paddler efficiency. I tend to believe that a kayak has better
efficiency.
If you are doing flat-water adventure racing, I'd get as long and light a
sea-kayak as you can afford.
If you are doing whitewater adventure racing, I'd get a downriver racing
boat (Wavehopper).
Either of these craft may challenge you for a while until you learn to use
them effectively.
Ted
"Tom Rodgers" <t...@svi.net> wrote in message
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Snoball
"Tom Rodgers" <t...@svi.net> wrote in message
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are usually the cheap sevlor kayaks. As to your actual question, I think it
depends on the kayak....
Snoball
Rmplstlskn
better paddling leverage and speed. One resembling a sea kayak would be
faster than a blunt-nose recreation kayak, such as the Freedom 16.
It all depends on WHICH one you get as for which would be faster...
Robert
"Tom Rodgers" <t...@svi.net> wrote in message
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Dan Valleskey
shorter learning curve on a kayak. Ultimatly, they are a bit faster
than canoes anyway (for long distances). Although, in your case, it
may come down to what you can rent.
And I doubt you will ever need to spend 6 grand on a paddle boat,
either kind. Though it is possible.
-Dan
Tom Rodgers
figuring they are both low-end since they are rented to the public from a
university rec center for about $12 a day. Again, I don't need anything
fancy, but being the multisport racer I am, saving a few minutes with
equipment is ALWAYS preferable.
I'll rent the sit-on-top kayak.
"Dan Valleskey" <vall...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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Oci-One Kanubi
point is that you are inexperienced, and novices cannot make canoes go straight.
A 16' livery canoe might have a far higher hull-speed than a 10'
recreational kayak, but you will be paddling by the financial method
(bank to bank) when what you want to do is get downstream (or across the
lake, or whatever).
Even for experienced boaters, of course, hull speed is not the only
issue; kayakers invariably manage a far higher stroke rate than
canoeists because (1) a canoeists recovery "stroke" is a kayakers
offside forward stroke, and (2) a canoeist must give up some forward
strokes to correction strokes, to keep the boat going straight despite
the asymetrical pwer regime (paddle on only one side).
In a kayak, alternate strokes are self-correcting,so the boat goes
straight without special attention and skill.
-Richard
PS, yeh, yeh, I know; there are refinements, like "sit'n'switch"
paddling, by which canoeists try to up their stroke rates, but nevertheless...
Tom Rodgers wrote:
>
> Thanks for everyone's help. I do have a choice between the two, and I'm
> figuring they are both low-end since they are rented to the public from a
> university rec center for about $12 a day. Again, I don't need anything
> fancy, but being the multisport racer I am, saving a few minutes with
> equipment is ALWAYS preferable.
>
> I'll rent the sit-on-top kayak.
========================================================================
Richard Hopley, Rockville, Maryland, USA (301) 330-8265
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
dbar...@xs4all.nl
Dirk Barends
Mike McCrea
If you can tell us the make & model of the rental boat choices we can
give you a better idea of which would likely be faster.
A sit-on-top modeled after a sea kayak hull, like a Necky Dolphin,
would be a whole lot faster than a general rec wide-ride SOT. A sleek
solo canoe like a Wenonah Voyager or a Mad River Independence would be
faster than a pig of a Coleman (haha). Etc, etc, etc.
If you know the boat choices available we can recommend the one that
will probably be fastest for you.
Larry Cable
>Message-ID: <3DC10AB4...@erols.com>
>Even for experienced boaters, of course, hull speed is not the only
>issue; kayakers invariably manage a far higher stroke rate than
>canoeists because (1) a canoeists recovery "stroke" is a kayakers
>offside forward stroke, and (2) a canoeist must give up some forward
>strokes to correction strokes, to keep the boat going straight despite
>the asymetrical pwer regime (paddle on only one side).
>
>In a kayak, alternate strokes are self-correcting,so the boat goes
>straight without special attention and skill.
That is only partially correct. Althought it is
easier to teach the basics in a kayak, the hardest basic to teach is paddling
forward
in a straight line.
The boat only goes straight with alternate
strokes if the paddler keeps the blade as close to the boat as possible with
the shaft of the blade a upright as possible and does not pull the stroke past
his/her hips. If these things don't come together, then what he ends up doing
is sweep strokes on both sides, not travelling in a very straight line and
wasting a lot of energy and effort.
SYOTR
Larry C.
canoeman
paddle in a canoe. This is simply not true. I use a double blade paddle all
the time, and it works perfectly. In the past two months I have made a
32-mile run in 5 hours (1,800 cfs), 6 hours (1,100 cfs) and 7 hours (976
cfs). The last two runs included some stops for photographs of the river.
Doing the math, the first run had an average speed of 6.4 mph, the second
run had an average speed of 5.3 mph and the run yesterday had an average
speed of 4.57 mph into a VERY strong headwind on the last half of the run.
Paddling straight can be done more easily in a canoe using a double blade
paddle, and there is less chance of muscle injuries, shoulder separations or
other physical injuries, especially for novice paddlers. A lot of the
control goes to mental awareness and quick response. Sometimes, I pull
harder on one side that the other to correct for wind or water current
anomalies that cause my boat to go off-course. My boat is a whitewater canoe
with about 3.5 inches of symmetrical rocker, so it tends to turn easily. A
long canoe with a flat keel line will track very straight most of the time,
and will actually resist turning, even when you want it to do so.
But, Richard is correct in stating that novices (USUALLY) cannot make a
canoe go straight. Of course, they probably cannot make a kayak go straight,
either. If the race will allow you to use a canoe and a double blade paddle,
then you will find the canoe to be far more stable in the water, negating
the need for wet exists and re-entries, and probably resulting in a faster
speed. Of course (and I am probably gonna catch hell for saying this), if
you are racing down in Aggieland, then BE PREPARED! Those guys down there
paddle UPRIVER!
HOOK 'EM, HORNS!
Canoeman
"Oci-One Kanubi" <richard....@erols.com> wrote in message
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Snoball
With all this rain we are having, where are you paddling these days???
Snoball - San Antonio
enjoying the upper guad at over 1000 cfs
"canoeman" <cano...@canoeman.com> wrote in message
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Vineet Buch
even to go fast. Only an inefficient arm paddler (not using the big
muscles of the torso) can paddle close to the boat. And with a wing
paddle (paddle of choice for racers), paddling close to the boat
pretty much guarantees a swim. As long as the paddle is pushing the
water back, it doesn't matter what arc it describes.
In calm waters, with little wind or current, and equal strength
strokes on each side, the bow will swing slightly around the mean
direction of travel, but the boat will basically move in a straight
line. Corrective sweep strokes will rarely be required.
VB
lrc...@aol.comnospam (Larry Cable) wrote in message news:<20021031124624...@mb-fg.aol.com>...
Larry Cable
Typed in >Message-ID: <5ae87c45.02103...@posting.google.com>
>Stroking close to the boat is not the best way to go straight - or
>even to go fast. Only an inefficient arm paddler (not using the big
>muscles of the torso) can paddle close to the boat. And with a wing
>paddle (paddle of choice for racers), paddling close to the boat
>pretty much guarantees a swim. As long as the paddle is pushing the
>water back, it doesn't matter what arc it describes.
That may be true in a racing kayak, but I haven't found that to be true in
whitewater
kayaks or my touring boat. I don't advocate
trying to get the paddle shaft as vertical as a canoe, but the closer to the
center line of the craft that your paddle travels, the less correction that is
required. This requires no more arm use as long as you don't take the stroke
past the hip before your recovery.
SYOTR
Larry C.
MJR
Myakka River in Florida, my wife and I found ourselves floating amidst a
number of baby alligators. My bride exclaimed "Oh, how cute!" while I
noticed momma slipping off the bank and into the water.
We quickly learned just how fast a 16' boat can be.
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