Attraction of C1, OC1 Paddling?
P. Baskett
What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
devotees prefer it over K1?
Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
raise your head higher over the foam (like being
in a truck vs. a car)?
Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
challenge?
Is it easier to roll or play in?
Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
else?
Thanks for any insights,
A K1 Paddler
Oci-One Kanubi
"P. Baskett" <no...@junk.com> typed:
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes
> its devotees prefer it over K1?
That's a tough one, and there is probably not really a rational answer
-- I mean, kayks just make more sense, don't they?
> Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you
> more control than squatting?
Maybe, and better leverage, and a greater moment arm to balance with,
but I suspect that that is no-one's *reason*; merely ancillary benefits,
and benefits that are only realized by the very best single-bladers,
anyway.
> Is it more comfortable?
No.
> Does it raise your head higher over the foam (like
> being in a truck vs. a car)?
Yes, you do have a better view, and this is actually a valid (but
probably minor) reason. On the other hand, with a brace on only one
side, we may have our heads down in the foam more often than 'yakkers of
equivalent skill! (^BD
> Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle
> system more effective (lower effort per objective)
> or more powerful per stroke?
I believe you can develop better torque from the kneeling position
(though kayakers, with much higher stroke rates, can probably generate
more raw power per second), but, again, that is probably only realized
by the better canoeists, and is an ancillary benefit, not a *reason* to
canoe.
> Or ... people like the extra challenge?
There is an element of this, and the bragging rights that go along with
it.
> Is it easier to roll or play in?
No. Well, a c-boat is very easy to roll (onside only, for practical
purposes), but for open boats: no.
> Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
> else?
For some paddlers, probably.
For me it is mostly the aesthetic. I cannot really describe it, but for
me, canoeing is a very cool thing to do. ('Course, if there were no
canoes, no doubt I would consider kayaking very cool.) I am also a bit
claustrophobic, though not enough to stay out of kayaks if I could not
canoe (like, when my knees eventually give out on me!) I just feel like
there is a grace and dignity, almost a majesty, to canoeing, either open
or decked (as long as I am upright and in my boat ;-), that I don't see
in kayaking. Purely a personnal quirk, I'm sure.
--
Richard Hopley, OC-1; Rockville, Maryland, USA, BBM; (301) 330-8265
Monocacy Canoe Club, Blue Ridge Voyageurs, Canoe Cruisers' Ass'n,
Greater Baltimore CC, Coastal Canoeists, Rhode Island Canoe & Kayak
Ass'n, Carolina CC, Tennessee Scenic Rivers Ass'n, ACA, and AWA
To send me eMail, remove ".NoSpam" from my address
Daniel Holzman
As an open boater for 20 years, there is really only one possible reason we
do it (I include the C1's). We are all masochists. There must be some
bizarre pleasure associated with getting out of my boat after half an hour
of paddling only to fall over because my ankles are so sore I cannot even
feel them. Or maybe it is the delightful sensation of realizing, after five
or ten minutes that they are still attached to my leg.
Of course, there was that one time I went over Dragon's Tooth on the Upper
Deerfield sideways, and all of the spectators assumed I was carnage, and I
held a low brace in the hole, and made it out with barely a drop of water in
the boat, and the crowd oohed and aahed ..... (and then I woke up)
P. Baskett wrote in message <347A02BA...@junk.com>...
>What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
>devotees prefer it over K1?
>
>Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
>control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
>raise your head higher over the foam (like being
>in a truck vs. a car)?
>
>Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
>more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
>per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
>challenge?
>
>Is it easier to roll or play in?
>
>Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
>else?
>
Natalie K. Hinman
Well, it's different for everybody I guess. I like sitting up a bit
higher (course, being somewhat vertically challenged I need all the
altitude I can get) 'cause it makes it a bit easier to see downstream.
I find it easier on my back to kneel, but harder on the ankles and feet.
I also feel that sitting up higher allows me to throw my weight around a
little better than sitting down. A kayak roll seems easier for me than
a C1 roll (when the chips are down as they say). Then there's always
the added attraction with C-boating of being unique, or at least
unusual. ;D
One thing I will say though, is that paddling in different disciplines
from your chosen or favorite mode once in a while will definitely
improve your overall skills. If you're wondering what C-boating is all
about, why don't you give it a try? Give it more than one afternoon
though, or you really won't get the benefit of the full
horizon-broadening potential. ;D
Happy Paddling!
A C1, OC1, K1 paddler
Joseph Day
For me the reason I switched from K1 to C1 is because I tried it out
and got hooked. I realized that if I spent a little time at it it was
something that I could do well. Some side benifits that I have
noticed are in squirrly water it is much easier to set up to roll with
a canoe paddle, but to actually come up is a little harder because you
have a higher center of gravity in a C1. The main appeals that have
kept me at it are the fact that it is different and the added
challenge.
Gregory Owen
>>>>> "Oci-One" == Oci-One Kanubi <Richard....@cpmx.saic.NoSpam.com> writes:
> For me it is mostly the aesthetic. I cannot really describe it, but for
> me, canoeing is a very cool thing to do. ('Course, if there were no
> canoes, no doubt I would consider kayaking very cool.) I am also a bit
> claustrophobic, though not enough to stay out of kayaks if I could not
> canoe (like, when my knees eventually give out on me!) I just feel like
> there is a grace and dignity, almost a majesty, to canoeing, either open
> or decked (as long as I am upright and in my boat ;-), that I don't see
> in kayaking. Purely a personnal quirk, I'm sure.
No, I agree with you (and I'm a kayaker). Canoes, especially
decked canoes, look very graceful when paddled with any skill. I
think part of it may be the one-handedness of it; sort of like
paddling with one hand tied behind your back. Another part of it may
be that you can hack a kayak through the water, but brute force in a
canoe only moves you in circles.
Greg Owen { go...@cs.tufts.edu,@xis.xerox.com } http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~gowen/
1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r-- y?
"I want to permeate the air you breathe/slide my way under your skin/place
myself behind your eyes/and watch you, watch me, looking in." Katell Keineg
KSTRELETZK
As someone whose vanity license plate reads "OC 1 W" despite the fact that I
havn't handled a single blade since May, let me share my perspectives.
>Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
>control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
>raise your head higher over the foam (like being
>in a truck vs. a car)?
The high visibility is definately an attraction. Open Boaters pride themselves
on their ability to read water. But it definately is NOT more comfortable.
And in cold weather it's way less comfortable, which surpitzed me. I thought I
would be colder in a kayak since it's closer to the water and much wetter, but
the reality is that your feet and legs are ususally in the inch or two of
frigid water that accumulates on the bottom of the canoe, and this is
definately COLD. And while kayaking is not as comfortable as I thought it
would be, it's a whole lot more comfortable than canoeing.
>Is it the paddle?
Yes. This is a big part of it. The strokes are so much more subtle. I
couldn't believe how big and clunky most kayak blades seemed, and I immediately
gravitated to Werner's rodeo blade because it allowed me to add some of the
graceful feathering that I was used to from canoeing. I think you'll find that
most canoeists love their paddle strokes. I never felt the need for a second
blade for bracing or stability reasons; the big advantage of two blades is
stroke rate speed and power.
>Is it easier to roll or play in?
You've gotta be kidding. NO!!! no. no. no.
>Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
>else?
Ah, you may be onto something here. And as a female open boater, I'd feel
doubly cool. Plus there's the peer pressure. Have you ever noticed that open
boaters tend to paddle in packs? Open boaters just approach rapids
differently. I still tend to kayak my lines like I'm paddling an open boat!
So you feel a bit like a traitor when you switch. Plus you can feel cool just
paddling a tough river in an open boat; once you switch to a kayak you've
gotta start learning tricks! But I've discovered that it's so much fun getting
trashed in a kayak - that my perspective has changed completely. What I didn't
know as a canoeist is that it's so much FUN getting WET. Now if I could just
keep the respiratory infections at bay. . . .
- Mothra (aka Kathy Streletzky)
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for?" - Robert Browning
Scott
KSTRELETZK wrote in message
<19971125125...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>As someone whose vanity license plate reads "OC 1 W" despite the fact that
I
>havn't handled a single blade since May, let me share my perspectives.
> >Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
>>control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
>>raise your head higher over the foam (like being
>>in a truck vs. a car)?
Well from a K1 guy who has only dabbled in OC1. I have to agree with one of
the previous messages that OC1 guys do look cooler coming down the rough
stuff. The open boaters got the most chears coming down Oceana.
Mothra made a good point about paddle control. So many K1 people just power
down the river and could learn a lot about blade control from a C1 or OC1.
I have only paddled OC1 a very little but it sure did open my eyes to blade
control rather than just depending on stroke rate for control.
Scott Bristow
Peter Staehling
I will comment on this, since I am a fairly recent
convert to K-1. I spent a lot of time in C-1 and
OC-1 in the past.
>The high visibility is definately an attraction.
True
>But it definately is NOT more comfortable.
Agreed
>And in cold weather it's way less comfortable, which surpitzed me.
I didn't find this to be the case with me, but I am seldom
cold when on the river and consistently wear less than
most folks, so that may be a factor.
>>Is it the paddle?
>
>Yes. This is a big part of it. The strokes are so much more subtle. I
>couldn't believe how big and clunky most kayak blades seemed
I used big blades when in a C-1 and wasn't educated to the small
blade advantage until I was in a K-1. Now I use a small bladed
K-1 squirt paddle. So I am not really typical to this example,
but I have noticed that many K-1 paddlers have only 2 strokes.
Neither is very subtle, just forward and back.
>
>>Is it easier to roll or play in?
>
>You've gotta be kidding. NO!!! no. no. no.
Roll isn't clearly easier or harder just different (IMHO).
Playing I think is easier in a K-1, at least on the
offside moves.
>
>>Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
>>else?
>
>Ah, you may be onto something here. And as a female open boater, I'd feel
>doubly cool. Plus there's the peer pressure. Have you ever noticed that
>open boaters tend to paddle in packs?
The appeal of being different was definately a factor with me.
I gave it up reluctantly, but was never sorry I did.
The pack thing wasn't a factor for me because I paddled with
K-1's far more than I paddled with other C boats when I was
in a C boat. Now that I'm in a K-1 my most frequent paddling
buddy is in a C-1. Go Figure!
>Open boaters just approach rapids differently.
>I still tend to kayak my lines like I'm paddling an open boat!
I agree here, although I am finally getting past my old habits.
Another Traitor (Pete)
Greg Barnett
>What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
>devotees prefer it over K1?
I've been asked that same question many times on the river. And you know, I
never really have had a definitive answer. Yes it's wetter, colder, etc.,
etc. but none the less, I really enjoy it. I suspect that many of us who
have stuck with it are stubborn individualists who resist conformity. Hey,
it's got to be some sort of psychological thing!
And most importantly, I love to see the looks on kayakers faces when I pull
off some killer move that they are all having trouble with....
Dr. Freud
tc mits
in the plains states (most of the usa) canoes are THE paddle craft.
the number of canoes is much higher than kayaks.
maybe there's some 'self-sufficiency' mindset? not many kayakers start
boating without getting some lessons first, but not many oc1'ers
initially want lessons; unless it's some friendly club lessons or park
district lessons as opposed to $chool lessons.
icq# 1310416
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:42:02 -0800, "P. Baskett" <no...@junk.com>
wrote:
>What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
>devotees prefer it over K1?
>
>Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
>control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
>raise your head higher over the foam (like being
>in a truck vs. a car)?
>
>Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
>more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
>per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
>challenge?
>
>Is it easier to roll or play in?
>
>Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
>else?
>
Woolbert Lab
The attraction of canoes to me is that once you learn to paddle one with
skill, it's all you want to do. Any fool can get in a kayak and paddle
down the river (not very well, I know, and some people paddle kayaks
with great skill and subtlety). A canoe takes some skill to keep in a
straight line, a kayak much less so. A beginning kayak can do a
forward, backward and sweep strokes. Many advanced kayak strokes are
really canoe strokes done with a kayak paddle -- the duffek is just a
post, the draw and scull and high brace are probably more efficient with
a canoe paddle. Most kayakers don't need to do cross forward strokes,
or compound back strokes -- but they're so cool when done well.
Two other reasons are:
A) Half the paddle, twice the man (or is it twice the paddle and half
the man, or is this just silly)?
B) That second blade just seems dangerous up there, and I'm worried I'm
going to whack someone in the head with it.
-- Andrew Gooding
Bill Camp
"P. Baskett" <no...@junk.com> wrote:
>What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
>devotees prefer it over K1?
I am writing as a fairly recent C-boater who paddled OC1 for two years
until I got tired of bailing after every drop, or paddling an 800 lb.
boat through a long rapid if I couldn't find an eddy nearby.
>Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
>control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
>raise your head higher over the foam (like being
>in a truck vs. a car)?
For me the body position is definitely more comfortable because of a
recurring lower back pain brought on by a pinched nerve. Kneeling
keeps my spine in much better alignment. However, it is rather
painful on the ankles.
The view downstream from the kneeling position is much better than
from a K1. I am often able to see whats over the lip of a new drop
much better than the kayakers I am paddling with.
>Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
>more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
>per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
>challenge?
The longer reach and larger blade allow a C-boater to have a very
powerful first stroke, and to be able to reach further for an about to
be missed eddy, but I am only able to make one stroke to your two.
The net result is that it is a little harder for me to make
attainments and ferries in very fast and pushy currents.
>Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
>else?
Yes, there is a certain degree of obstinance involved in doing things
differently from the majority. There is also a great deal of
satisfaction in acquiring the skills to paddle a C1 on Class IV & V
whitewater. If it were easy it wouldn't be half as satisfiying.
Besides, there is nothing more graceful on a river as a C1 paddled
well.
>Thanks for any insights,
>A K1 Paddler
I hope I have helped you to understand some of the appeal of C-boating
as I perceive it.
A C-boater from NC
RJ Smith
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
> devotees prefer it over K1?
>
> Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
> control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
> raise your head higher over the foam (like being
> in a truck vs. a car)?
I can't believe that any of these play a significant role. It can't be
more comfortable than anything else. As for being able to see more, all
this does is to encourage your K-1 friends to send you ahead as a "probe".
The comfort (pain) aspect is the reason I am making the move from C-1 to
K-1. After 20 years my knees can't do much more (I need to save what's
left for C-2 paddling - that is REALLY fun).
>
> Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
> more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
> per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
> challenge
The C-1 paddle is definitely DRIER. Only seldomly do I have cold water
running into my armpits in C-1/C-2, while in K-1 this seems like a given.
The T-grip does let you know exactly where the blade is. As to power, at
my level the K-1 has more power, but as skill levels improve I think this
becomes less of an issue. Certain strokes will be more powerful in a C-1
(most eddy turns, for example).
>
> Is it easier to roll or play in?
This is the major reason I went to C-1 vs. K-1 initially. I found the C-1
much easier to roll. However, a lot of rolling is which boat you learn in.
Some are much easier than others. Playing on the off side in a C-1 is a
challenge :).
>
> Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
> else?
Well, Duh!
Oliver Castle
it you want to me read about how I got into c1 paddling read about me on my
web site the address is
http://homepages.enterprise.net/tomc/ and the info about me is under the
section me but look at the rest of the site as well
--
**********************************************************************
From Oliver Castle
Email: to...@enterprise.net
My web site is at: http://homepages.enterprise.net/tomc/
P. Baskett <no...@junk.com> wrote in article
<347A02BA...@junk.com>...
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
> devotees prefer it over K1?
>
> Is it the body position? Does kneeling give you more
> control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
> raise your head higher over the foam (like being
> in a truck vs. a car)?
>
> Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
> more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
> per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
> challenge?
>
> Is it easier to roll or play in?
>
> Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
> else?
>
Will Siegfried
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
> devotees prefer it over K1?
>
From a racer's perspective, I paddle OC-1 (and OC-2) rather than wildwater
kayak because the canoe stroke is easier on me. Whenever I trained a lot
in kayak I would get wrist and elbow injuries. Plus in open canoe
whitewater racing, where the use of airbags is restricted, there's the
added challenge of staying dry.
sbr...@nspr.com
Why OC-1 / C-1?
For me, it was an attempt to keep up with a kayaking relative - an open
canoe seemed less threatening to one not comfortable under water (I can
wet exit and keep my hair dry...) Plus, the non-athlete in me
appreciated the built-in excuse for a slow learning curve that a single
blade provided.
Comfort? I've almost never had a problem with comfort in a boat I've
outfitted. The only times I've had problems are when the saddle has been
too low or there is too much padding under my ankle (cuts off
circulation). However, when I kayak, my feet go to sleep. I'm sure if i
spent more time in a K-1 the problem would get better or I'd get the
outfitting dialed in.
The view? I like the added height, though I'm not sure if it really makes
a difference. Of course, in an OC-1 you can have the ultimate view by
standing up.
The paddle and the strokes? The strokes just *feel* right. It's hard to
explain, but I feel a precision and grace in the feathering, sculling,
and linking of strokes. Whether *I* look graceful is another matter...
I think that the canoe strokes are more powerful, though there is the
trade off stroke rate and the balancing of the applied power by having a
blade on each side.
The roll? My on-side C-1 roll is as fast or faster than a kayak roll and
as reliable. With the higher center of gravity and little to no offside
brace, I certainly have had lots of practice. The off-side and hands
roll are another story - I'm working on it though!
The challenge? You bet! In an open boat I really enjoy the deliberative
approach to running rapids and playing. You have to account for that
gaping open top and figure out how to get where you want to be with that
single blade - this makes you learn how to work with the river and use
it's features to your benefit early on. An OC-1 and a decked boat may
have two completely different experiences running the same rapid and
experience the same level of challenge and, no doubt, have as much fun.
Now that I paddle C-1, I find I can keep up with the kayakers at the play
spots, too. Well, almost. At least I don't have to bail the boat after
each sidesurf or 360 ;-) I may have taken at lot longer to aquire the
same skills than my kayaking buddies did, but that has as much to do with
me as it does with the boat and I have enjoyed the learning process as
much as the boating itself.
Certified C boat nut,
Scott
ps The Whiplash has got to be one of the best K1-C1 conversions I've ever
tried - it's soooooo much fun
Scott Broam
sbr...@nspr.com
ca...@ix.netcom.com
Whiplash C-1 * Maverick C-1 * Slasher C-1 * Viper 12 OC-1
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Pete Dumbleton
Will-
Did you paddle feathered or unfeathered? Did you notice any
difference between the two in terms of injury?
Pete Dumbleton sf...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Will Siegfried wrote:
\/----->>snippped>>-----\/
oo oo
> kayak because the canoe stroke is easier on me. Whenever I trained a lot
> in kayak I would get wrist and elbow injuries. Plus in open canoe
\/----->>snippped>>-----\/
oo oo
Slot Move
No comment.
Bad Billy
Alan Dunne
I am an OC1 paddler and for me the choice was simple. I was already
a solo flatwater paddler, and I do a lot of canoe tripping, tandem
and solo, and both flatwater and whitewater. I already had most of
the basic skills and strokes thus my progress was fast. I find that
my OC-1 paddling has helped my flatwater solo, and my whitewater
tandem tripping. I am also "into" canoes for their historical
aspects as well.
Using an OC-1 for whitewater has allowed me to crossover gracefully.
If I started kayaking, I would be back to square one or two.
Besides, there is just something special 'bout that
single blade ... Al
b baer
IF YOU HAVE EVER WATCHED A TRULY GREAT C BOATER THREAD DOWN A STEEP,
TECHNICAL DROP OR SCREAM THROUGH A SLALOM COURSE YOU KNOW YOUR QUESTION HAS
NO BASIS. I ASPIRE ONLY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE SO ELEGANTLY OVER THE WATER.
DOUC12?
Stevscarb
A flatwater racer made a statement in a rag interview that I adopted as my own.
Beth Lundquist ( I think) said
" I like the way it feels!"
No religion or BS here. Some people just like the way it feels when they
plant the paddle and pull it through the water. I like the feel of using the
power of the current on my blade. I love kayaking , too, but it never seems to
give me that same type of visceral satisfaction.
Steve Scarborough
sie...@erols.com
I couldn't resist pitching in here...
I started off paddling OC-1, but only paddled it for a short time.
Then I discovered slalom C-1.
My first sight of *any* C-1 was watching Jon Lugbill and Davey Hearn
train on the Feeder Canal in Washington, D.C. I've always been an
artist at heart, and when I saw those guys I thought "That's the
coolest, most beautiful thing I've ever seen!" And I was hooked from
then on.
Ten years of slalom C-boating later, I still believe the aesthetics of
a slalom C-1 (and of plastic C-1s and OC-1s, to a lesser extent) are
the most beautiful on the river. Even at the highest levels---for
example, comparing Richard Fox in kayak to Davey Hearn in C-1---the
C-1 is more graceful and beautiful to watch, hands down.
IMO, canoeing is more of a challenge to master (especially a slalom
C-1), and teaches you more about water and current along the way.
Kayaks---though probably a superior river craft---are the aquatic
reflection of our society's need for instant gratification. (Also a
reflection of the herd mentality--because 'everybody does it!'.) You
can learn to kayak and be paddling decent whitewater in a summer, but
a canoe takes a much more dedicated commitment.
Kayakers often scoff at the notion that C-boaters know more about
moving water than they do, or at least have a better feel for it.
Think about it. Of course canoiests know more! For literally every
other stroke a kayaker takes on the opposite side, a canoeist can't.
For a kayaker, the question is never "how do I keep my bow from being
swept downstream," because they always have a sweep and power stroke
on both sides. Canoeists must always be thinking, "how can I adjust my
angle and trajectory and/or catch that wave so my bow won't be swept
downstream?"
I'm not bashing kayaks. They're great boats, and I'll probably paddle
one someday. But it saddens me that more people don't commit to
mastering a C-1 (especially a slalom C-1). Because the adage is 100%
true: the harder the work, the greater the reward.
Scott Wilkinson
PMccune647
Got to jump in here. Some aspects that I've not seen discussed yet of why we
open boat:
Less time with your head in the water. While playing in situations involving a
roll is much of the fun of kayaking, the liability of water-borne diseases like
giardia and lepto and sinus infections is a factor one has to consider.
Entrapment: I've read most of Charlie W's accident writeups over the last few
years. The frequency of pinning situations becomes greater as kayaks tackle
steeper and steeper creeks. Of course, most open boaters aren't capable of
handling class IV-V, 100+ fpm
creeks, but we're generally ok with that for the reasons previously discussed.
When we open boaters do get into trouble , we can usually get out of the boat
more
easily. The resulting swim isn't fun, and rescue is usually more difficult.
(Thanks kayakers) I feel that part of the territory for open boaters is to
avoid taking the kind of chances that make it necessary to be rescued.
One other thought. I think it's healthy to discuss this topic without slamming
the other group. After all, we all paddle (at least some of) the same rivers.
tc mits
Back in the 80's (?), living in the midwest, the first time I saw that
c1's or c2's existed came while viewing some olympic or world
championship tv coverage. Hopefully the 2000 olympics will have
plenty of slalom coverage, but since a whole lot more people are
unfamiliar with it, coverage will probably show laps being run/swum
and one-sided bball. Some type of H2H (head to head) whitewater race
could be more exciting for tv. Heats, semis, then the final race. :)
David C. Garrity
> reflection of our society's need for instant gratification. (Also a
> reflection of the herd mentality--because 'everybody does it!'.) You
> can learn to kayak and be paddling decent whitewater in a summer, but
> a canoe takes a much more dedicated commitment.
It may be true that kayaks are easier to paddle, but kayakers (other than
squirt boaters) rarely crawl around at the takeout because their feet have gone to sleep
and their ankles and knees have locked up in one position. The selection of C-1 designs
is also pretty lame. Not everyone wants to look like a racer-head and paddle 13' of
fiberglass.
It is fun to hear C-boaters whine about how they wouldn't have taken a swim if
they'd had another blade.
Dave
--
You've made a mockery of the system. I darn you to heck.
- Phil 'The Prince of Insufficient Light'
KSTRELETZK
> I ASPIRE ONLY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE SO ELEGANTLY OVER THE WATER.
>DOUC12?
Then type elegantly and use lower case.
Martin Fahrer
kstre...@aol.com (KSTRELETZK) wrote:
>> I ASPIRE ONLY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE SO ELEGANTLY OVER THE WATER.
>>DOUC12?
>Then type elegantly and use lower case.
Ditto
Eric
Is C1 decked solo canoe and OC1 open solo canoe?
Eric
b baer <dou...@sprynet.com> wrote in article
<01bcfb39$ed5353a0$0aebaec7@default>...
> IF YOU HAVE EVER WATCHED A TRULY GREAT C BOATER THREAD DOWN A STEEP,
> TECHNICAL DROP OR SCREAM THROUGH A SLALOM COURSE YOU KNOW YOUR QUESTION
HAS
> NO BASIS. I ASPIRE ONLY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE SO ELEGANTLY OVER THE WATER.
> DOUC12?
>
tom menten
b baer (dou...@sprynet.com) wrote:
: IF YOU HAVE EVER WATCHED A TRULY GREAT C BOATER THREAD DOWN A STEEP,
: TECHNICAL DROP OR SCREAM THROUGH A SLALOM COURSE YOU KNOW YOUR QUESTION HAS
: NO BASIS. I ASPIRE ONLY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE SO ELEGANTLY OVER THE WATER.
: DOUC12?
Hmmm. I've heard there are no stupid questions; only stupid answers.
KSTRELETZK
>Is C1 decked solo canoe and OC1 open solo canoe?
Yes.
Lindsay Meeks
P. Baskett <no...@junk.com> wrote in article
<347A02BA...@junk.com>...
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
> devotees prefer it over K1?
A friend of mine has a great description of one of the major benefits
of C-boating.
Since you are on your knees for so long, the blood flowing to your
feet, knees and crotch is restricted. The longer you paddle the
more it is restricted. This leads to the pain and the crawling on
shore that makes C-boating famous. As the femoral artery backs
up the blood also pools near the testicles of male boaters. While
this may sound far fetched it is only a little blood and since numbness
has set it is not noticed immediately.
Now the big benefit occurs about two hours after the trip is finished and
the blood starts to leave. Since it pooled slowly it leaves slowly. This
allows the C-boater to have sex for literally _hours_ after a long trip.
Ever wonder why C-boaters never have a problem getting their wives'
permission to boat all the time? Wonder no more.
L
kod...@gmail.com
(PeteCresswell)
with the boat.
But I switched from kayaks to surf skis shortly after I rolled up in a
rolling drill to find the park manager raving at me like some sort of
lunatic in the vein of "We don't allow rolling in this park....".
The whole technology around avoiding a flooded boat and recovering from
same didn't agree with me. Some love it. I didn't. And banging
one's kneecap on the fore edge of a cockpit kind of takes the luster off
of it too.
But even with surf skis (I'm 6'5", long legs and weirdly-long shins
compared to thighs) I've had to buy semi-custom.
OC-1 has been calling out to me for a couple years now - on the
assumption that there's a lot more room for long legs there - but I just
haven't been able to hook up with anybody to try it.
I expect one issue to be flow. With a surf ski you have this very
enjoyable alternating-side rhythm... kind of like an ape swinging
through the trees. OTOH with single-blade it's more of a
chug-chug-chug scenario.
OTOOH, maybe I'll learn to love it.... the leg thing would be huge
insofar at it let me use almost any ski... and the greater height off
the water will probably be a plus aesthetically.
--
Pete Cresswell
Myron Buck
> What is it about C1 or OC1 paddling that makes its
> devotees prefer it over K1?
>
> control than squatting? Is it more comfortable? Does it
> raise your head higher over the foam (like being
> in a truck vs. a car)?
>
> Is it the paddle? Is the single-bladed paddle system
> more effective (lower effort per objective) or more powerful
> per stroke? Or is it less so, but people like the extra
> challenge?
>
> Is it easier to roll or play in?
>
> Is it the appeal of being different from most everyone
> else?
>
> Thanks for any insights,
> A K1 Paddler
Without reading all the posts (and as a 30 year canoeists), it's apples and oranges.
When I see kayaks, I think of boats designed to be rolled, meant to be used for playing in whitewater and requiring a certain amount of 'go for it' attitude. Its about the paddler and the water, and the boat is a mechanism to get them in the water, and the two-sided blade is the best tool for helping him get rightside up when needed.
When I see canoes, I think of boats designed to slide along the water like a car on a highway. Meant for exploring and travel. it's about the paddler and a relationship with the landscape, using the rivers as the pathways, and the paddle is the best tool for pushing that vessel along.
Sure, kayaks can be used for touring, but you have a lot of compromises with gear and packing....it's not what they do best. And canoes can be used for whitewater, but it's also a forced adaptation and not what they do best.
I canoe because I want to explore the landscape. My friends kayak because they want to play on a river.