Dagger Crossfire opinions wanted
Baglock
I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
thanks
Victoria Christian
And down the road, when you decide you need something a little
zippier for surfing and pivoting, it can be your creek boat.
I'd advise some early exposure to edge in the learning
curve (under somewhat controlled circumstances). Getting out of
a mega stable boat like the Xfire can be a humbling , helmet
bonking and bruisogenic experience.
J. Pheasant-Albright
I should've added a caveat....out west we get BIG water, you may find you
need a little more volume than if you're doing rivers back east.
If you think a XFire is stable, get into an Overflow sometime. Like
paddling a log.
>
Julie
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"What part of the word 'deadline' don't you understand?"
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J. Pheasant-Albright
On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Baglock wrote:
> I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
> thanks
I love mine! After mine was stolen...I bought another one. Seriously, I
think it's a great beginner boat, good initial & secondary stability,
fast, turns well, surfs better than most "beginner" boats, ie: Corsica S,
etc. It's not going to be as "responsive" as a Pirouette S or a
Frankenstein, but it isn't as edgy, either.
Good luck,
Unknown
Unknown
In article <Pine.OSF.3.92a.96080...@saul6.u.washington.edu>, "J. says...
>
>On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Baglock wrote:
>
>> I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
>> thanks
>
A few weeks ago I lent my Outburst to a friend and went back to the Crossfire.
I discovered that the Crossfire won't hold a glide, ferries poorly, tracks almost
as badly as the Overflow in big water, and pulls too hard on my groin muscles.
This is all in comparison to the Outburst, and on class III water at 4000 cfs.
Also, at 175 & 5'10" you may be pushing the Crossfire's upper limits. I'm not too
sure how appropriate the Outburst is for a beginner, but you might try it. It is
certainly a far better boat than the Crossfire.
>
Tom Daniels
In article <01bb8332.f02e7300$40d33d9d@toddma5200>, "Baglock" <bag...@msn.com> writes:
>I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
>thanks
The Crossfire is a bit edgy and a bit slow, but otherwise a great
boat. I started out in a Crossfire, switched after two years to
a Pirouette S, and now want to go back to a Crossfire. The boat
rolls like a dream, surfs fairly well, and performs very well in
big water for a relatively low-volume boat. The Crossfire doesn't
have as much playing potential as the Pirouette S, but it's also
much less tempermental. Other typical beginner boats are barges,
relatively speaking, so the Crossfire is a good compromise.
Robert Lee
gordon.b...@kp.org wrote:
>
> >Until I bought an Outburst, I used to think that the Crossfire was a good boat.
> A few weeks ago I lent my Outburst to a friend and went back to the Crossfire.
> I discovered that the Crossfire won't hold a glide, ferries poorly, tracks almost
> as badly as the Overflow in big water, and pulls too hard on my groin muscles.
> This is all in comparison to the Outburst, and on class III water at 4000 cfs.
> Also, at 175 & 5'10" you may be pushing the Crossfire's upper limits. I'm not too
> sure how appropriate the Outburst is for a beginner, but you might try it. It is
> certainly a far better boat than the Crossfire.
I'm a beginner, and the two boats I have been using are the Crossfire and
the Outburst. I am about 6'-1" and weigh about 190 lbs. Although I find
the Crossfire to be slightly more stable, I think the Outburst is just
about comparable, with the exception of the low volume stern tending to
squirt me a little. I also don't think you would push the limits of
either boat with respect to your size...from personal experience, both
seem comfortable. Try an Outburst before you commit to the Crossfire.
Rob
Fred Westrom
Baglock wrote:
>
> I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
> thanks
I think that the Crossfire is a pretty good beginner's boat. Other than
that, I don't like it. You might look at a Wave Sport "Extreme" seeing
as that you live out west. I would choose the Extreme over a Crossfire
any day. I had an Extreme for 2.5 years before I burned a hole in it on
a tire. I paddled lots of class 5 stuff in it before it died. But you
might want to check it out, as that it's a faster boat all around, and
plays better. :)
later,
Fred
Stephen Pietrucha
I use to own a crossfire and I think it would be a great boat to start
with. Can you demo one first? If you can that is what I would try to do.
Good luck.
Steve
Baglock
The guys at Dagger are recommending the Outburst, but my shop is really
pushing the Crossfire. I trust the guys @ the shop, but I usually respect
the manufacture's perspectives. Can you give me any insights as to the
Outburst's feel to a newbie. I understand it will be a little "edgy" and I
will be swimming a little more than normal, but I get a sense I can
overcome those things with a little extra practice and effort.
Thanks
gordon.b...@kp.org <Gordon Bainbridge> wrote in article
<4u8ab0$1...@lex.zippo.com>...
> >
> >> I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first
boat?
> >> thanks
> >
knadav
Baglock wrote:
> (snip)
> >I have been paddling for 3 years and have had 3 boats. I used to boat a
vortex and now have an outburst. I like it. It's edges are not nearly as
"bad" as I was expecting (such as being auto-endered in eddy lines or in
holes). On the other hand, the edges make the boat much better at surfing
than I thought (although I am still working lots on technique and don't
consider myself a great surfer, as my paddling partners could point out). It
is faster than the vortex and gives me more performance than the vortex.
HOWEVER, I have seen a few people in crossfires that paddle circles around
me. They can surf, side surf, manuever, etc... so the boat seems to be no
limitation at all to them. I would bet that both boats offer good
performance. If I were starting out, I'd go with a more stable boat and work
on technique and enjoyment. (I started in a full sized corsica: I liked
STABILITY when I was getting started.) I tried a vortex, but was frustrated
by my inability to make it go in anything but circles.
Dave Knaebel
Jeff Morris
In rec.boats.paddle, "Baglock" <bag...@msn.com> writes:
>I'm a 175lb, 5'10 beginner. Any opinions on a Crossfire as a first boat?
>thanks
My son has one and seems to like it, although he hasn't been paddling
much of late. His brother, who has a Corsica S, has tried it and said
it was OK, but not as stable. It also has less volume (which means
less legroom) and is somewhat prone to backender going over steep drops
(I think this was intentional). I understand that the newer model has
less rocker than the original design, which could make it less responsive
in turning (or easier to make go straight, depending on your point of
view). I and my wife (who is good) paddle Responses which are stable,
but are not considered "hot" play boats. We like them, but your choice
should depend on what you want to do. Personally, for a beginner,
I'd prefer stability. After gaining skill and confidence, you could
then see if you wanted something more specialized.
BALangley
The Crossfire will be a good all around boat. It will do everything
pretty well but nothing as well as the boats that are designed for a
specific purpose such as surfing (Sleek) or hole playing (RPM). It turns
into eddies very nicely, front and side surfs pretty well, and is great as
a boat for just going down a technical river.
If you are worried that it is too agressive a boat for a beginner, don't
be. You will soon become comfortable and grow into it.
My only concern would be that, at 175 lb, you are probably above the
optimal weight for it. I'd talk to someone who weighs about that and
check out his/her opinion.
Good Luck with your choice.
Mark Allen Warford
> > thanks
>
Mark Allen Warford
Otlcon
i have paddled a crossfire for about 3-1/2 years and have loved every
second of it. surfs great, ferries well and has enough hull speed to get
you where you want to go.
also has just enough volume for self supported trips (if you're creative).
two of us spent 7 days on the mf salmon in kayaks.
i am, however, a bit ticked off at dagger. just a few months out of
warranty, i noticed 2 cracks in my hull bottom, about midway between seat
and stern. being made from cross-linked poly, the boat is said to be
irreparable. i called dagger, because others had said what a great company
they are and they would probably help, since i was so close to the
warranty period. (when i called, the boat was about 4 months past its 3
year warranty.) dagger's response: "you bought it when?... oh, that's too
bad. (read patronizingly) sorry pal."
my boat was out of warranty. fair enough.
additional info: boat was stored indoors; used approx 20-30 days per
season; rarely abused (bottom shows what i would consider an average
amount of scrapes/scratches, other than 2 cracks (i am a carrier, not a
dragger)).
ultimately, my advice is to consider materials in addition to performance
when making your purchase.
linear link poly IS reparable. (apparently x-link is too, but i would have
to drive to jack's plastic welding in NM to get it done.)
DON'T buy a used x-linked boat.
if you buy a new x-linked boat, be prepared to replace it when the
warranty expires. they don't all break, but LOT's do. granted, i've heard
dagger is pretty good within their warranty period, but do you want to
have to deal with this?
dagger has some new hi-tech material out this year, but IMHO it will take
several years before it is field proven.
bottom line: the crossfire is a great beginner to advanced intermediate
boat, but consider the trade-offs.
good luck.
Labrys
Bought one this spring. I love it!!!!
Great boat. Easy to roll, fun to surf, enders like a champ.
Who could ask for more?
(Of course, I weigh a lot less than you do)
______________________________________________________________________
Teresa Tutt YA-HOO!
tu...@rpi.edu A / _
EPHY `97 |\ / ))
| \O / "Take care of the wild places
| HH--/ and they'll take care of you"
\(H\|/
\ / -Lucie Blue
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______________________________________________________________________
Chris Bell
>ultimately, my advice is to consider materials in addition to performance
>when making your purchase.
>
>linear link poly IS reparable. (apparently x-link is too, but i would have
>to drive to jack's plastic welding in NM to get it done.)
And of course you CAN buy a linear-plastic Crossfire. Not
only will it be more easily repairable, but it will be
cheaper too (by about $50). Linear plastic seems more
flexible to me, which appears to make it more crack-
resistant (don't have the data to back this up, but this
seems to be so).
In any event, I paddle a linear Crossfire (when I'm not
in my linear RPM) and have been very happy with it.
-- Chris
Otlcon
In article <4v56km$9hk...@econ.unca.edu>, be...@unca.edu (Chris Bell)
writes:
>And of course you CAN buy a linear-plastic Crossfire. Not
>only will it be more easily repairable, but it will be
>cheaper too (by about $50). Linear plastic seems more
>flexible to me, which appears to make it more crack-
>resistant (don't have the data to back this up, but this
>seems to be so).
>
>
unfortunately, the sales staff at the time had me convinced that the
x-link, being less flexible, would be higher performance. (amazingly, the
crossfire, now being sold as a beginner boat, was introduced as an
intermediate-advanced play boat. apparantly, instead of me growing into
the boat, it has reduced itself to my
abilities! )
next time around, i will take chris' advice and try to get a linear
version of whatever i choose.
Jonathan McCloskey
I bought an Outburst three weeks ago, and I have suddenly remembered how to
swim, on a serious note though, I am 200 lbs and 6.5" tall the Outburst
fits very well and is comfortable, when buying I was told that "the boat
would kick my ass" and it has, then again you learn fast, the colder the
water the faster you will learn !
Jonathan McCloskey
Jonathan McCloskey <jona...@microsoft.com> wrote in article
<01bb8df1$fe278c20$2572379d@jon001>...