Any thoughts on River Runner R5 and R5 Excel ?

[John Buffett]

Hi all:

I am a rank beginner. I can roll a keyak in a swimming pool. ( For Now!
)
My ambitions are flatwater touring and maybe Class I or II WW.

What impressions does the group have for the:

River Runner R5 with paddle and skirt at $650 Can.
River Runner R5 Excel with paddle and skirt at $850 Can.

I know they are far from top of line but they are in my price range.

What are the goods and bads of this boat ?

Appreciate any feedback and thanks in advance.

John

[yakker]

Buy a used "anything else" if you are tied into this price point.

Some problems I have experienced in 10 years of selling this line of kayaks:
- plastic is POOR, oilcans and deteriorates very quickly
- hardware is not all stainless ...some of the fittings are coated, and will
rust
- hardware is not "nylock" or lock-washered ...guaranteed to loosen up
- very small cockpit is uncomfortable and disconcerting for beginners, and
it's hard to find a decent skirt to fit these boats
- outfitting (pillars, seats, etc) are of extremely poor plastic, seemingly
without any UV stabilizers whatsoever ...I have actually seen 5 year old
outfitting crack and crumble. These boats were stored outside, but this
rate of decay is ridiculous.
- the packaged skirt and paddle that come with these "kayaks" made by LPA of
Quebec, are of extremely low quality as well.

Now for some advice / possible choices to look at:
- Prijon Yukon or Yukon Tour (retail "street price" $1300 to $1550 Canadian)
Excellent hybrid whitewater / touring design, with the best plastic in
the business can be outfitted with an optional rudder.
- Current Designs Breeze (retail "street price" $1250)
Nice small touring boat, not very suitable for WW. Optional rudder
available.
- Dagger Edisto (retail "street price" $1150)
Similar to above, rudder available, bulkhead version available

Any of these designs are much better plastic and hull shape than the R5.
Most people who bought R5's and R7's and got hooked on kayaking came back to
upgrade to a "real" kayak within a season or so. We always had a good
supply of used R5's in stock!
"Street price" refers to what you should realistically be prepared to
pay for the boat; "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail" is invariably higher
than street price.
Just so you don't think I'm overly biased: I don't work in kayak retail
any more, I don't work for any kayak company, I paddle for Team Dagger
(whitewater). If you need help finding a good price on any of these boats
let me know, as I still have some connections at the retailer I used to work
for.

I hope that this rant helps you out!
Christian

Personal Computer Services / GrafX

John Buffett wrote in message <354D0541...@sympatico.ca>...

[Richard Culpeper]

John:

The R5 can give you a taste of everything, but is not very good at any one
thing. For flatwater touring mixed with a little easy wild water, it is a
fine boat -- great for easy weekend overnight trips. It tours nicely on
flat water, can easily handle rough open water, and can handle
non-technical easy wild water if the eddys are not tight. When compared to
a sea kayak, it is fairly slow and has poor storage, but can still easily
hold a weekend's worth of gear. When compared to a wild water kayak it is
far too long and too slow turning -- it handles more like a typical
recreational canoe than a kayak. You can run non-technical wild water, but
don't expect to make any quick turns.

The R5 is a boat which many people start with but eventually grow out of
when they specialize as sea or wild water paddlers, so you might consider
looking for a second hand one ($650CDN is the going rate for a new one
including a cheap skirt and paddle).

Richard Culpeper
Instructor, OWWA, OSCRA

[Lee Bones]

[Lee Bones]

drove from austin, tx. to dallas when i saw one for sale. i could see from multiple photos it was just what i was looking for. it is quite fast( for a boat that has at least some whitewater ability) stable and tracks exceptionally well.( here again, for a boat that can turn if put on edge a bit. it is certianly not any sort of dedicated whitewater boat, nor does it really belong on a flat lake. it is what the name implies, a generalist moving-water tourer, for class 2 with long, slow stretches . goes upstream rapidly. forget about playing, quick eddy-outs, though with a little foresight( a practice we could all benefit from) i find it can to be made to turn reasonably for it`s length. stay out of creeks! has the one-size-fits-all saw-toothed footpegs, which belong in a swimming pool, not a river. i plan to replace with real aluminum footrest and some thigh bracing. currently very difficult to roll. at 6ft, 165 lbs i cannot lock into hull properly. i feel this is a very good hull design for it`s intended purpose but was never outfitted appropriately , due to marketing/ cost restraints.i can`t see that anyone currently makes a hull very similar to this.the prijon expedition moves in this direction, and is doubtlessly a better made and equiped boat(with hatches!) but appears to have knife- edge, bow and stern. somewhat faster, i`m sure,and better tracking, but i think it would be a real hand full in standing waves and eddy lines. the r-5 was canadian made, and seems to be rare very far south of washington or new england. mine was apparently sold new in u.s.a., it has seda graphics, no mention of r-5 or the "dimension" company. happy paddling!