Painting FRP diamond nonskid ??
Maui
but mostly diamond nonskid. Will use 2 part LP on epoxy primer. It's
22 years old and never been painted.
Question about the best way to handle the nonskid. I've used plastic
beads from Sterling on the shower pan. I don't want to fill in the
diamonds with beads. Seen walnut shells, fine sand - don't want
either. I've heard about sprinkling on epsom salts, never seen the
results. I've seen people grind off the diamonds and use beads, fine
rubber grit, etc in the paint. Don't want any stick-on sheet stuff.
What's the answer here.
Jim
Hasn't been painted in 22 years?
Damond nonskid?
What's the answer here.
What's the answer here.
What's the answer here.
Don't do it.
Brian Cleverly
Power wash it.
Forget the epoxy primer, it will fill in the valleys. Use a no-sand
primer.
Mask off with **good** tape, suggest 3M's "fine line"... Anything less
will allow the primer to blead underneath.
Add Polymer beads (all the paint people have them available) to the
paint when applying.
Brian Cleverly (if replying direct remove the "x" from the address)
Sailingsnowbird
True, once you start paint you are going to have to do it every few
years. But if it looks bad paint may be the lesser of 2 evils.
For skid resistance I tried a fine sandy like powder that you
sprinkled on wet paint, then put on another coat after it dried. Not
good! It chips off. I just got some Rust-Oleum textured finish that
I'm going to try. (Available in WalMart) This won't be for about a
month when I go south to FL.
Heide Hauptstein
you do this on a professional basis. We have a Hirsch 45 that has the
diamaond pattern....which I find quite slippery....also it was an ex charter
boat....so quite a few dings on the decks. We are trying to decide what to
do as well. I thought Interlux Interthane Plus would be my paint of choice
but I believe it does not require a primer....If you don't mind sharing what
are your thoughts on this paint?
Thanks,
Karin
Jim
Listen, there is a way to patch gel coat. Every manufacturer sends a
guy down to the boat to do warranty work with some low tech equipment.
I'll guarantee you he won't paint non skid. Even a boat damaged in a
collision can be fixed, and are everyday.
The tools necessary to do the job cost less that $20. Just as in
anything, knowing the tricks is the secret. Check the West Epoxy site
for their magazine, and READ IT. There are some materials available,
such as rubber sheet nonskid that you can use in imprinting damaged
nonskid. THAT'S how it gets there at the manufacturer. That's how the
warranty guys fix it.
A painted deck will look good for a while, and will gradually turn into
a mess that is impossible to fix. Go walk the docks, you'll see them.
NONE are better than they would be if they WEREN'T painted.
There is a proper way to do everything, and it takes effort to learn
what the proper way is.
I'm half way through removing the paint off of my decks. The non skid
is in good shape under the paint.
How I wish the old owner hadn't painted it.
Jim
Brian Cleverly
Heide Hauptstein wrote:
>
> Brian, do you have a preferred paint system that you would use....I assume
> you do this on a professional basis.
Interthane is my preferred choice.
I used to use Interlux AL200 primer but have changed to Pettit 6999. I
find the Pettit is easier to use and goes further.
> I thought Interlux Interthane Plus would be my paint of choice
> but I believe it does not require a primer.
Whoever told you that is giving you false information... If you want
any LPU to last, a primer is a necessity... Not overlooking the fact
that it is impossible to thoroughly sand in the valleys of the non-skid
pattern. The no-sand primer is thin enough to penetrate everwhere and
actually chemically bonds with the gelcoat to provide the necessary
"key".
I also degloss the paint somewhat on non-skid using Interlux 2317
Flattening Agent... Usually add about 30%... The polymeric beads I use
are either Interlux 2398 or Awlgrip U2899. Be careful with these, more
is not better... Don't use more than recommended on can, but use them
with every coat.
Good luck
Tom Bloomer
the diamond non-skid pattern by sanding it smooth, priming and painting with
an LP system, then your results should be as good as your preparation and
painting skills allow. If you are just going to paint over the diamond
pattern and want to keep the diamond pattern intact, you should not prime
it. Any primer will fill the diamond pattern and reduce its effectiveness
as a non-skid surface. To prep a non-skid surface for LP paint system - do
the following:
1. Wet surface.
2. Apply generous amounts of Comet cleanser.
3. Scrub surface with stiff brush.
4. Make sure that you keep a thick past of the cleanser as you scrub.
5. Rinse with copious amounts of water.
6. The surface should not have a gloss and once thoroughly rinsed and dried
will provide a perfect surface to bond directly with LP paint.
The cleanser contains chlorine and an abrasive. The abrasive will "sand the
surface" and the chlorine will break down any waxes oils or mildew trapped
in the surface of the gelcoat. I have used this system several times to
repaint decks with the diamond pattern. It works great! I learned the
trick from the Awlgrip rep . . . about 20 years ago.
There are a lot of LP paint systems out there. All of them will give you a
slippery surface. Painting the diamond pattern leaves a slippery deck.
Awlgrip's Griptex is the best non-skid paint additive. It works with
Awlgrip and just about any crosslinked paint system. It comes in coarse and
fine. It is not a mineral like sand - feels like hard little tiny sponges.
The Griptex beads actually absorb the paint and make a lump on the surface.
You can apply it several ways, but the least messy way is to brush or roll
on a wet coat of paint, sprinkle the Griptex into the wet paint using a big
"saltshaker." After the paint dries, blow away the loose Griptex with
compressed air and apply another coat of paint over the Griptex. I have
used Griptex in Awlgrip, Imron, Interthane, and Sterling with good success.
By the way, Awlgrip holds up best on decks . . . it is very abrasion
resistant.
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Maui" <Ma...@FAKE.ADDRESS.COM> wrote in message
news:3bc09b6b...@news.mminternet.com...
Bob Taylor
I have used the "comet" method to paint two boats both hull and deck.
Both had cast nonskid patterns. Both turned out well. One thing I
did which helped is to scrub the surface with acetone right before
painting. Acetone is a solvent for polyester so helps paint to
adhear. Both the boats I painted were fairly old. I did not use a
primer except where there was cracks etc to fill. One boat is now 15
years since I painted it and looks good. Got the info from the Dupont
factory people for Emron.
HIH
Bob
"Tom Bloomer" <bloomer@/"<NoSpam>"/snip.net> wrote in message news:<ts31mjc...@corp.supernews.com>...
Brian Cleverly
Tom Bloomer wrote:
>
snip snip
> If you are just going to paint over the diamond
> pattern and want to keep the diamond pattern intact, you should not prime
> it. Any primer will fill the diamond pattern and reduce its effectiveness
> as a non-skid surface.
Absolute bunkum... If you use a no-sand primer (which has the
consistency of water) the pattern valleys are not filled in any way
shape or form **and** you get a chemical bond to the gelcoat!!!!
Brian Cleverly
LaBomba182
>From: Brian Cleverly
Hum, lets see. Water runs down hill, the diamonds are raised areas with valleys
in between, yup, you`r right, no way a watery primer could fill the valleys. So
I guess we can leave the filling of the valleys to the two coats of top coat
paint you put on after you prime. I`ll take mine with some sand, thank you.
Capt. Bill
Tom Bloomer
What brand of no-sand primer are you suggesting? What brand of LP paint
have you used with it? What LP paint manufacturer recommends this no-sand
primer you are suggesting?
If you suggesting one of those methylene chloride based products that
softens the gelcoat and allows "paint to chemically bond" to it, I
respectfully suggest that you leave the advice to those who have been there,
done that, seen the long term results, and have professional training and
experience in this area . . . years of it.
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Brian Cleverly" <anz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3BC27BDD...@earthlink.net...
Rich Hampel
purpose. Call them direct and speak to a tech rep.
Glenn Ashmore
LaBomba182 wrote:
> Hum, lets see. Water runs down hill, the diamonds are raised areas with valleys
> in between, yup, you`r right, no way a watery primer could fill the valleys. So
> I guess we can leave the filling of the valleys to the two coats of top coat
> paint you put on after you prime. I`ll take mine with some sand, thank you.
Not if you apply it properly. It should be rolled with a thin foam roller with
just enough primer to coat the surface. If it runs into the bottoms of the
pattern, you are putting on to much. Same with LPU.
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of)
at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Tom Bloomer
Interlux Yacht Finishes
2270 Morris Avenue, Union NJ 07083
They have no such product. They used to make a methylene chloride based
no-sand primer, but that was discontinued due to EPA and OSHA restrictions -
and the product had produced numerous technical problems. Maybe such a
product is available from Interlux (Courtalds) whatever that is, but I stand
by my original statement and I can back it up with experience.
Any solvent that "etches" gelcoat will soften and degrade the surface.
Comet cleanser contains chlorine, which is a solvent that will etch gelcoat
if left in contact for a long period of time. The advantage is that the
concentration of chlorine is very low, and the etching that takes place is
microscopic compared to actual surface softening and degradation caused by
the non-sanding primers that have been outlawed in the US for several years.
Once the Comet cleanser is thoroughly rinsed away, the remaining trace
chlorine evaporates as the surface dries. You are left with a clean, wax
and grease-free gelcoat surface with no gloss and a lot of very fine
microscopic pores which allow a perfect bond between the gelcoat and any LP
paint system. The only reason to use an epoxy primer under LP paint on
gelcoat is to fill surface imperfections, bridge over small surface checks,
and isolate the LP paint from contaminants in the gelcoat.
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Rich Hampel" <rhm...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3BC2F392...@att.net...
Rich Hampel
was a great product for that purpose.
...... Courtalds is the corporate owner of Interlux.
Tom Bloomer
the average boatyard grunt. I have no formal chemistry background, but I
spent plenty of time at the library reading about polymer chemistry and I
have studied a ton of resin and paint system application technical manuals.
I do not encourage others to experiment on their boats. When I recommended
against the no-sand primer, it is because I have had numerous bad
experiences with it over a period of years of real world professional
application.
I did a lot of warranty work on brand new boats where the dealer had used
this "primer" instead of dewaxing and sanding the boat bottoms when they
applied a coat of bottom paint before delivering the boat. I made a lot of
money fixing the results. So for my business, it was a great product! I
have worked as a painter and fiberglass repair expert in about a dozen boat
yards and also worked for two boat manufacturers. For a while, I owned my
own freelance fiberglass repair, LP painting, and GRP fabrication business.
I have also been through the Awlgrip training school and done a lot of
experimentation with various resins, paints, fillers, and reinforcing
fabrics - but never, ever on someone's boat.
When I worked for Blackfin Yachts in 1984, they used the no-sand primer
(briefly) to etch the gelcoat before painting on the Imron boot stripes and
also as a bottom paint primer. . . they got tired of fixing it and went to a
different process. The Interlux rep had convinced them that this product
would save them time and money and get their boats through production
quicker. Since I was the only one arguing against it, and the Interlux guy
was questioning my credentials, they tried it . . . I was very gracious with
the "I told you so" to my boss . . . then went out and found another job.
There are ways to cut corners and skip steps. Most of them will come back
and bite you on the a$$.
--
Tom Bloomer
Boatyard Grunt from 1977 to 1988 . . . still dabbling a little on the side .
. .
Hartly, DE
"Rich Hampel" <rhm...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3BC30ACE...@att.net...
Maui
for the plain border areas around the diamond non-skid - primer all,
primer only the patches that need it, no primer anywhere ??
Maui
means.
Tom Bloomer
prime. If the deck has significant ageing and deterioration, you *should*
still prime it. As gelcoat ages, it becomes more porous. Eventually the
pores are so deep that the LP paint will not fill and bridge them.
You can spot prime the areas that obviously require it, but usually it is
worth the effort to prime the entire deck. I personally do not like the
diamond non-skid pattern. If you plan to preserve the pattern, and the
gelcoat is in good condition, why bother to paint it in the first place?
You can use the Awlgrip Griptex to create a new non-skid pattern. The
diamond pattern is filled with gelcoat that you can sand off with 80 grit
and an electric sander. If you expose bare glass, seal the glass with two
coats of West, Raka, or System 3 epoxy -which is an excellent way to "prime"
over the gelcoat surface pores. Then use a surfacing primer like Awlquick .
. . sand with #320 and paint.
System 3 has a water-based LP paint that dries to a flat, non-gloss surface.
I think that would be an excellent paint for the non-skid pattern areas.
Then you could mask off and paint the boarders in a different color using
Sys. 3 LPU with their clear -gloss overcoat or one of the high gloss LP
paints. Both Sterling and Awlgrip can be brushed and still deliver a finish
that rivals a spraypaint job. Awlgrip also has a flattening agent that you
can use to kill the gloss on the non-skid portions. It helps to have a low
gloss deck so that you aren't squinting from reflections off the deck on
bright sunny days. A two tone non-skid/ deck boarder is attractive on any
boat.
Tan or pale gray non-skid pattern with off-white boarders is very nice. I
have done several of these with Awlgrip, Griptex. You can spray the griptex
in a siphon cup spraygun, but the little griptex beads bounce all over the
place. Also you have to constantly swirl the mixture in the gun-cup to keep
the beads suspended because they will float to the top of the cup and you
wind up spraying paint without the non-skid. The end result for sprayed
grip-tex is a very even non-skid surface, but you have to cover the entire
boat to protect it form the overspray. The alternative salt shaker method
requires less masking because you are brushing or rolling.
If you are working outdoors without the ability to control the elements, you
will have a lot of problems getting a good looking paint job no matter whose
LP paint you use. You have to balance curing time with flow time. LP
paints need to flow to eliminate brush strokes or orange peel from spraying.
Temperature and accelerators and inhibitors have to be adjusted to obtain
optimum results. Some systems are more forgiving than others.
If you are spraying, Imron is the easiest LP paint to apply, but it is for
spray only. You can accelerate Imron to kick off tack free in 10 minutes
and still get a wet glossy looking finish. I have shot Imron at 42deg. F
thinned with 15% acetone and gotten fantastic results. But that job was in
a covered shed. If the boat had been partially in the sun, the surface
warmed by the sun would have been orange peel galore.
The longer your time to "tack free", the longer you have for your surface to
pick up dust and bugs. However, long tack free times also provide better
flow - which manifests as better gloss. It's a balancing act. A drop or
rise in the temperature of the surface will also impact your results. I
used to have a rule that I would not start painting outside if I could not
finish by 2:00pm. Otherwise, the evening dew would settle on the surface as
it cooled and kill the gloss.
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Maui" <Ma...@FAKE.ADDRESS.COM> wrote in message
news:3bc33df1...@news.mminternet.com...
Maui
issue.
Brian Cleverly
Tom Bloomer wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> What brand of no-sand primer are you suggesting? What brand of LP paint
> have you used with it? What LP paint manufacturer recommends this no-sand
> primer you are suggesting?
>
If you care to read all this thread you would see what I recommend both
for the primer and the LPU **and ** the prep-treatment.
> If you suggesting one of those methylene chloride based products that
> softens the gelcoat and allows "paint to chemically bond" to it, I
> respectfully suggest that you leave the advice to those who have been there,
> done that, seen the long term results, and have professional training and
> experience in this area . . . years of it.
> --
Well are 40 years +/- enough experience for you????
I never recommend anything I haven't personally tried and proven in my
own work.
Brian Cleverly (remove the "x" for a direct reply)
LaBomba182
>LaBomba182 wrote:
>
>> Hum, lets see. Water runs down hill, the diamonds are raised areas with
>valleys
>> in between, yup, you`r right, no way a watery primer could fill the
>valleys. So
>> I guess we can leave the filling of the valleys to the two coats of top
>coat
>> paint you put on after you prime. I`ll take mine with some sand, thank you.
>
>Not if you apply it properly. It should be rolled with a thin foam roller
>with
>just enough primer to coat the surface. If it runs into the bottoms of the
>pattern, you are putting on to much. Same with LPU.
>
>--
>Glenn Ashmore
>
You`r right! I forgot that a foam roller cancels out the effects of gravity.
:-)
While it`s true that you could put very, very thin coats of primer and paint on
a raised nonskid deck, would you really want to? All that walking and dragging
things around.
I`ll still take mine with a bit of sand, thank you.
Capt. Bill
LaBomba182
>What about thining the primer - to really quite thin - whatever that
>means.
It still won`t run up hill. :-)
Capt. Bill
Tom Bloomer
have to use the foam brushes that are made for use with LP paints and ketone
solvents. Personally I like a good badger hair brush - just like the ones
you would use for varnish. In fact you can brush LP paint just like
varnish - work from the dry into the wet, work fast, don't go back over it,
let it flow. There is a reason a good badger hair brush costs $25-$60.
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Maui" <Ma...@FAKE.ADDRESS.COM> wrote in message
news:3bc6591c...@news.mminternet.com...
Tom Bloomer
Bronze wool on gelcoat? How do you keep the bronze particles from
contaminating the gelcoat? Interthane . . . hmmmm . . . the LP Wannabe . .
. they worked the bugs out by now?
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"Brian Cleverly" <anz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3BC3D664...@earthlink.net...
djohnson
different color adding the non-skid particals. The deck was previously
painted and I can't get the old paint out of the valleys so I was going to
prime with a 2 part paint to bond with the old enamel paint, then paint the
deck with a 2 part paint. The idea is to give it a hard surface for longer
wear. I will be spraying on all paint so the application should be only a
few mils thick(except the non-skid).
Anything obviously wrong with the plan?
"Tom Bloomer /snip.net>" <bloomer@/"<NoSpam> wrote in message
news:ts8cocj...@corp.supernews.com...
Tom Bloomer
you said you couldn't get the old paint out of the valleys, it seems to me
that you are leaving the pattern (diamond?) and putting a new non-skid over
it. That's not likely to look very "Yachty" when it's done.
It is against my religion to apply a LP paint system over any one-part paint
system. It may work just fine and last 100 years, but I won't go there.
You ever buy retread tires? Saves a few bucks . . .
--
Tom Bloomer
Hartly, DE
"djohnson" <dbjo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Ev2y7.31144$jM.35...@news20.bellglobal.com...