teflon tape for gas fittings
lefty
gasoline fittings such as the vent line? Will the gasoline or gas
vapors destroy the teflon tape?
Rich Hampel
Lew Hodgett
> Is it safe to use the teflon tape that you use for water plumbing on
> gasoline fittings such as the vent line?
Not really.
> Will the gasoline or gas
> vapors destroy the teflon tape?
No, but that's not the problem.
Using teflon tape on any combustible fuel piping is a major expense and
inconvenience waiting to happen.
The problem is that little bits of teflon tape get cut off during assembly,
then make their way down the pipeline until they find a small orfice and
plug it.
Basic reason teflon tape is never used in combustion piping.
OTOH, teflon paste is quite acceptable.
SFWIW, one of my customers, a major refinery who shall remain nameless, had
one of their people install a combustion process burner. The guy forgot and
used teflon tape with the results above.
Bottom line:
It cost the refinery over $10,000 to get back on line.
Required putting a tech guy on a chartered red eye from the west coast,
rental cars, portal to portal charges, down time, etc,etc.
Tech guy found and corrected the problem within 10 minutes after arriving.
Don't know if anybody got fired or not, but someone should have.
HTH
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
Rich Hampel
the earth.... DO NOT USE IT for service that must be particle free...
use the TAPE but be sure that is on the threads of joining surfaces
only.
In PASTE the teflon particles are unbound and free to migrate, the
'binder' in the tape is not totally chemically inert and has poor
mechanical strength. Most high purity chemical manufacturers,
refineries and other critical chemical manufacturing processes have long
ABANDONED Teflon PASTE.
Horace Brownbag
It depends on the type of fitting used. Teflon tape should never be
used on flare fittings. Never.
... well, unless you buggered up the flare, and don't have the
resources to do it properly.
Douglas King
> Is it safe to use the teflon tape that you use for water plumbing on
> gasoline fittings such as the vent line?
If used properly, yes.
> Will the gasoline or gas
> vapors destroy the teflon tape?
No.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> Using teflon tape on any combustible fuel piping is a major expense and
> inconvenience waiting to happen.
>
> The problem is that little bits of teflon tape get cut off during assembly,
> then make their way down the pipeline until they find a small orfice and
> plug it.
Yes, that can certainly be a problem, but it won't happen if the teflon tape is
used properly.
>
>
> Basic reason teflon tape is never used in combustion piping.
>
> OTOH, teflon paste is quite acceptable.
I disagree strongly. Teflon paste is an accident waiting to happen. Tape is much
much more reliable but it has to be used *properly*. Most people just cowboy
fittings together in the first place, and when they leak, wrap half a roll of
teflon tape to seal it. This is not proper usage.
For the record:
Wrap the tape against the threads, not in the same direction. The tape wrap
should tighten as the fitting is tightened, not tend to come uncoiled which is
how shreds of teflon get loose in the system.
No more than two full wraps
Two full threads of relief on the fitting... this means that the teflon tape
wrap stops at least two threads before the end of the fitting.
Cut the tape, don't pull it. Or if you do pull it, make double damn sure that
there are no long threads hanging from the exposed end.
Most people use teflon tape sloppily, with the result that it still leaks, so
they then overtighten the fitting, etc etc. Getting shreds in the system is the
least of their worries.
>
>
> SFWIW, one of my customers, a major refinery who shall remain nameless, had
> one of their people install a combustion process burner. The guy forgot and
> used teflon tape with the results above.
>
> Bottom line:
>
> It cost the refinery over $10,000 to get back on line.
>
> Required putting a tech guy on a chartered red eye from the west coast,
> rental cars, portal to portal charges, down time, etc,etc.
>
> Tech guy found and corrected the problem within 10 minutes after arriving.
>
> Don't know if anybody got fired or not, but someone should have.
Or at least had the technicians per diem garnished out of their next few
paychecks......
I don't think teflon tape is a substitute for proper tubing & piping fittings.
For example, I happen to like compression ferrules and teflon tape is worthless
with them. It's also useless to put on flare fittings, but you see it all the
time. However, we use teflon tape on all sorts of systems and have never had a
problem with shreds in any system...... but then we do things the right way, and
if we don't already know the right way, we look it up! A healthy attitude about
using tech manuals is the best way to tell a good technician from a cowboy.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
modervador
> [snip] I don't think teflon tape is a substitute for proper tubing & piping fittings.
> For example, I happen to like compression ferrules and teflon tape is worthless
> with them. It's also useless to put on flare fittings, but you see it all the
> time. [snip]
I have been known to use teflon tape on the threads of flare fittings.
I used to look down on the practice till someone had me try it just to
humour him. It is not for sealing the flare the way it seals tapered
pipe threads. It is not to "compensate" for a badly formed flare. It
is for lubricating the threads of the fitting such that the flare is
compressed with less effort on the wrenches than is required on a
"dry" joint. It works well in this regard, kind of like pipe dope but
without the "lint magnet" effect, quite the opposite of useless.
"-mod."
modervador
> Teflon tape should never be
> used on flare fittings. Never.
Because..... ?
-mod.
modervador
> Is it safe to use the teflon tape that you use for water plumbing on
> gasoline fittings such as the vent line? Will the gasoline or gas
> vapors destroy the teflon tape?
I don't see why it wouldn't be safe, but I'm not a petro-chemical
engineer. For some reason, the tape used for natural gas pipe is
yellow, not white. Package says it's OK for gasoline, kerosene,
benzene etc. Maybe it has less of a tendency to shred? For a dollar a
roll, I can afford to keep both the white and yellow stuff in the
toolbox.
-mod.
Keith
mine who works with in one of the Chevron refineries.
I also hear that one of the reasons you shouldn't use teflon tape with
SOME bronze fittings, is that it tends to over-lubricate the threads,
and folks tend to overtighten and deform them.
That all being said, I only use teflon tape on water fittings, and then
only occasionally. I use Permatex on fuel fittings.
--
__________________
Keith
Don't let your mind wander -- it's too little to be let out alone.
Douglas King
>
> > [snip] .....It's also useless to put on flare fittings, but you see it all the
> > time. [snip]
>
>
>
> modervador wrote:
>
> I have been known to use teflon tape on the threads of flare fittings.
> I used to look down on the practice till someone had me try it just to
> humour him. It is not for sealing the flare the way it seals tapered
> pipe threads. It is not to "compensate" for a badly formed flare. It
> is for lubricating the threads of the fitting such that the flare is
> compressed with less effort on the wrenches than is required on a
> "dry" joint.
So you're using it sort of like antisieze?
> It works well in this regard, kind of like pipe dope but
> without the "lint magnet" effect, quite the opposite of useless.
The handbook on fittings that we use says that this will expand the flare nut and make the fitting
less likely to form a tight seal, and distort it for future remakings. However, if you're working
on low pressure systems it probably doesn't do any harm.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, thanks for the info.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Larry DeMers
Just be darned sure that you use the right teflon tape for the intended use. The white stuff
is for water..teh yellow tape is for propane and natural gas. The white stuff apparently
dissolves in the presence of propane..never tested this, but the fire marshall clued me onto this
one at our restaurants last inspection.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 on Lake Superior
modervador
> >
> > I have been known to use teflon tape on the threads of flare fittings. [snip]
Douglas King <dou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<3D491AEA...@bellsouth.net>...
> So you're using it sort of like antisieze?
Yeah, kinda.
> The handbook on fittings that we use says that this will expand the flare nut and make the fitting
> less likely to form a tight seal, and distort it for future remakings.
I can see if you overtighten the nut, you'll stretch it lengthwise. I
can't see how the teflon in the gap between the nut and the fitting
threads will expand the nut radially; after all, you can twist the nut
by hand over the fitting even with the teflon in there so there must
enough room for it. But I can see that again, overtigtening might
expand the nut radially because of the tapers involved.
So I guess don't overtighten. I "think" I can feel the soft copper
squish a little between the nut and the fitting, and that's where I
stop. But yeah, most of my experience is with propane fittings, a mere
11.5" WC of pressure if my memory serves. I use the heavy duty forged
brass nuts, not the weaker copper ones.
-mod.
Jeff Morris
news:3D495DFC...@sgi.com...
> Just be darned sure that you use the right teflon tape for the
intended use. The white stuff
> is for water..teh yellow tape is for propane and natural gas. The white
stuff apparently
> dissolves in the presence of propane..never tested this, but the fire
marshall clued me onto this
> one at our restaurants last inspection.
>
That's funny, IIRC the propane adaptor for got for my Magma grill came with
a little bit of white Teflon - you'd think the Magma folks would know about
this.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back
soup at the deli."
Jere Lull
Never could figure out why people thought Teflon was a sealant. Ever look at it after you've undone a joint?
I tape everything threaded other than bolts and have taped a few of them in the bilge that I wanted to get apart in 10-20 years.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 sailing from Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ annotated pics) http://members.dca.net/jerelull/BVI.html
The_navigator©
female threads and thereby blocking the voids that should exist in a
properly formed thread. It also has considerable anisotropy as a tape.
Cheers MC
Jere Lull
>
>
>Jere Lull wrote:
>
>>Never could figure out why people thought Teflon was a sealant. Ever
>>look at it after you've undone a joint?
>>
>It seals by beaing compressed into the crevices between the male and
>female threads and thereby blocking the voids that should exist in a
>properly formed thread. It also has considerable anisotropy as a tape.
>
>
>Cheers MC
>
pretty much all been squeezed into the bottom of the grooves, where it
does little, if anything. The compression and deformation of the metal
makes the joint air/water/fuel tight.
modervador
>
> [snip] Never could figure out why people thought Teflon was a sealant.
Worst case of "teflon seals pipe threads so it must seal everything" I
ever saw was on a barbed tubing connector. Teflon tape was wrapped
like duct tape around the OUTSIDE of the hose and the wraps didn't
even overlap in several places. The only useful purpose served was as
a placebo for whomever effected this repair, made them feel like they
at least did something.
2nd worst case was on a garden hose connection, female connector
didn't have a washer, so put teflon on the male threads to seal it,
right? Nope, leaked like a sieve at the female part in the imperfect
seal between the outer "nut" and the inner "flare." In retrospect, a
garden hose connection is a lot like a flare connection but uses a
washer between the female flare and the face of the male part.
-mod.
modervador
> >It seals by beaing compressed into the crevices between the male and
> >female threads and thereby blocking the voids that should exist in a
> >properly formed thread. It also has considerable anisotropy as a tape.
Jere Lull <jere...@BellAtlantic.net> wrote in message news:<3D4A1FD8...@BellAtlantic.net>...
> Stuff doesn't have enough substance to stop much of anything and it's
> pretty much all been squeezed into the bottom of the grooves, where it
> does little, if anything. The compression and deformation of the metal
> makes the joint air/water/fuel tight.
I think that it does two things. It lubricates the threads making
compression and deformation easier to accomplish with the wrenches.
The deformation and compression alone would cause properly formed
threads to make an interference fit that seals perfectly in a perfect
world. The PTFE is also compressed into the crevices between the male
and female threads, thereby blocking the voids that may exist in an
imperfect world.
-mod.
Horace Brownbag
(modervador) wrote:
let's engage in a little exercise.
First, think about how a flare fitting works.
secondly, ponder how Teflon tape works.
Now, how will you use the application of that Teflon tape in such a
way that will not compete with the functioning of the flare fitting?
You can't. I can't. The fella who worked on it before can't.
There is no way you can field apply Teflon tape to the business end of
a correctly formed flare fitting without it interfering with the seal.
Application of the Teflon tape to the threads of the flare fitting to
nothing to improve the functioning of the flare. Furthermore, as it
has been pointed out in other posts, increases the likelihood of over-
tightening the nut, and deforming the nut, the flare, or the
fitting...or some combination of all three.
Teflon tape should never be used on a flare fitting unless that
connection has been buggered up and one does not have the resources to
make that connection properly.
The_navigator©
the groove in a properly formed thread? This gap runs all the way out so no
thread can seal properly without teflon tape or something (eg. hemp and wax
etc) to seal it. This gap serves to collect small quantities of dirt etc. and
to stop the thread seizing. Next time you break a joint look at where most of
the tape ends up. I have never seen a thread alone used as a *gas tight* seal.
Have you?
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
Cheers MC
modervador
> >> Teflon tape should never be
> >> used on flare fittings. Never.
> On 31 Jul 2002 19:26:11 -0700, moder...@worldnet.att.net
> (modervador) wrote:
> >Because..... ?
Horace Brownbag <hbro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<WvC29.42414$eG2.1...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
> let's engage in a little exercise.
Oooh, let's! (c:
> First, think about how a flare fitting works.
>
> secondly, ponder how Teflon tape works.
>
> Now, how will you use the application of that Teflon tape in such a
> way that will not compete with the functioning of the flare fitting?
On the threads as a lubricant?
> You can't.
Oh, but I do :-O
> I can't. The fella who worked on it before can't.
>
> There is no way you can field apply Teflon tape to the business end of
> a correctly formed flare fitting without it interfering with the seal.
Well, actually you can, but it is not worth it. Can lead to more
problems especially during disassembly and reassembly.
> Application of the Teflon tape to the threads of the flare fitting to
> nothing to improve the functioning of the flare.
We disagree, considering the flare joint as a whole including threads
to draw the pieces together. The lubricant can improve the ability to
compress the flare to proper pressure and thereby improve the
functioning of the flare.
> Furthermore, as it
> has been pointed out in other posts, increases the likelihood of over-
> tightening the nut, and deforming the nut, the flare, or the
> fitting...or some combination of all three.
As it has been pointed out in other threads, having your boat on the
water increases the liklihood that it will sink. But you can minimize
the risk if you understand what you're trying to accomplish and how
you're getting there.
In the hands of a dolt, teflon tape is a bad thing, I'd agree. So as a
least common denominator, dumb it down so even a monkey can do it or
at least not screw it up irrepairably approach, yes, never use the
tape anywhere on a flare joint. I'd go so far as to say if you haven't
done several joints successfully "dry", don't use the tape.
For a good joint using the tape, you need to have a feel for how tight
it needs to be with the threads lubricated, that comes with
experience.
> Teflon tape should never be used on a flare fitting unless that
> connection has been buggered up and one does not have the resources to
> make that connection properly.
The resources for making a proper first-time connection can include
teflon tape if one knows what one is doing. It is not for everybody,
but I feel I apply it effectively in my situation. I've made hundreds
of flare joints in the propane lighting/cooking/refrigeration systems
of several lake cottages, so I've had time both to make my mistakes
and to experiment with what will get it right the first time, using
small wrenches in tight quarters sometimes.
I actually prefer pipe dope (on the male threads only). It both
lubricates and seals the threads. Sealing the threads is of course of
not going to seal the flare itself. However, as a side effect, should
the flare leak, the pressure then escapes mostly (or entirely) through
the gap between the tubing and the nut. Therefore, detecting a tiny
leak with the bubble stuff is easier and more sensitive than if
multiple escape paths exist (check them all anyway).
-mod.
JAXAshby
one where the threads were soooooooooooooooo sticky they *required* lubricant
just to snug up nut?
>> Now, how will you use the application of that Teflon tape in such a
>> way that will not compete with the functioning of the flare fitting?
>
>On the threads as a lubricant?
>
>> You can't.
>
>Oh, but I do :-O
why? because you've jammed up and cross-threaded the nut?
>> There is no way you can field apply Teflon tape to the business end of
>> a correctly formed flare fitting without it interfering with the seal.
>
>Well, actually you can, but it is not worth it
let's see it we got this straight, mod. *you* are stating that teflon between
the flare and the seal does NOT interfer with the seal? what ARE you thinking?
> Can lead to more
>problems especially during disassembly and reassembly.
>
huh? the slippery teflon makes taking the flare from the seal MORE difficult?
Really?
>We disagree, considering the flare joint as a whole including threads
>to draw the pieces together. The lubricant can improve the ability to
>compress the flare to proper pressure and thereby improve the
>functioning of the flare.
>
yeah, sure, of course. those blasted sticky threads are SUCH a problem.
mod? have you EVER even seen a flare fitting?
for the answer to that question, let's look at your next statement. to wit:
>I've made hundreds
>of flare joints in the propane lighting/cooking/refrigeration systems
>of several lake cottages
so, working on just several ("several" means less than ten at the outside to
most people) cottages you've made **hundreds** (your word) of flair joints?
what on Earth caused to make dozens upon dozens upon dozens of connections to
even one cottage, let alone several? Didn't you learn from your dozens and
dozens of mistakes on the first cottage?
>so I've had time both to make my mistakes
yes, it appears so.
[snip the rest of the trash]
modervador
> mod, it seems you may not know how flare fittings are made. Have you EVER seen
> one where the threads were soooooooooooooooo sticky they *required* lubricant
> just to snug up nut?
No, not new from the factory. You can snug them up but can't get them
to seal with just finger tightenting, though. If you can't hang the
normal big wrenches on them to turn them home because of space
constraints, then the lubricated threads are a plus I believe when
using stubby wrenches.
> >> Now, how will you use the application of that Teflon tape in such a
> >> way that will not compete with the functioning of the flare fitting?
> >
> >On the threads as a lubricant?
> >
>
> >> You can't.
> >
> >Oh, but I do :-O
>
> why? because you've jammed up and cross-threaded the nut?
No. Finger tight first so I can feel the threads engage, never
cross-threaded that way. Are you saying that teflon is a way to get a
cross-threaded nut to tighten? I wouldn't have thought that myself.
> >> There is no way you can field apply Teflon tape to the business end of
> >> a correctly formed flare fitting without it interfering with the seal.
> >
> >Well, actually you can, but it is not worth it
>
> let's see it we got this straight, mod. *you* are stating that teflon between
> the flare and the seal does NOT interfer with the seal? what ARE you thinking?
I am thinking that there are ways you can put teflon between the flare
and the seal such that it does not interfere with the seal (i.e. the
seal is made with reasonable torque on the nut), but that it is
unnecessary and therefore not worth it.
> > Can lead to more
> >problems especially during disassembly and reassembly.
> >
>
> huh? the slippery teflon makes taking the flare from the seal MORE difficult?
> Really?
It does not make it more difficult to take apart. What it does is
really increase the risk of getting teflon tape shreds into the tubing
at time of disassembly, which may be a pain to get out. Those are the
type of problems of which I wrote. So I don't recommend it at all.
> >We disagree, considering the flare joint as a whole including threads
> >to draw the pieces together. The lubricant can improve the ability to
> >compress the flare to proper pressure and thereby improve the
> >functioning of the flare.
> >
>
> yeah, sure, of course. those blasted sticky threads are SUCH a problem.
No, they're not sticky and not a problem at all.
> mod? have you EVER even seen a flare fitting?
>
> for the answer to that question, let's look at your next statement. to wit:
>
> >I've made hundreds
> >of flare joints in the propane lighting/cooking/refrigeration systems
> >of several lake cottages
>
> so, working on just several ("several" means less than ten at the outside to
> most people) cottages you've made **hundreds** (your word) of flair joints?
> what on Earth caused to make dozens upon dozens upon dozens of connections to
> even one cottage, let alone several? Didn't you learn from your dozens and
> dozens of mistakes on the first cottage?
Have you ever seen a lake cottage that uses propane for lighting,
cooking & refrigeration? You'd find that we often use 4 flares for
each appliance: 3 flares at the T where you tap into the main line,
another flare where you connect to the appliance. Then you have
shutoff valves here and there, that's another 2 flares each. A single
modest setup of 7 lights, a fridge, a range, and perhaps a heater get
you an easy 40 flares.
Yes, "several" cottages means fewer than ten, but closer to ten than
to three which would have been more like "a few." Of the several, most
belong to other folks, some of whom have done some of their own work,
some of whom have had me over to do what I do. Most of the mistakes in
these matters happened to be those of other people, mistakes that were
at times discussed over dinner or drinks and from which I learned, but
I've made a few mistakes of my own of course.
> >so I've had time both to make my mistakes
>
> yes, it appears so.
Admitting ones mistakes, learning from them, and then moving on is a
strength.
-mod.
JAXAshby
>seen
>> one where the threads were soooooooooooooooo sticky they *required*
>lubricant
>> just to snug up nut?
>
>No, not new from the factory. You can snug them up but can't get them
>to seal with just finger tightenting, though. If you can't hang the
>normal big wrenches on them to turn them home because of space
>constraints, then the lubricated threads are a plus I believe when
>using stubby wrenches.
so, you're telling us you've NEVER seen a flared fitting are you?
Yup
then you tell us you don't know what threads are by posting the following:
>> >> Now, how will you use the application of that Teflon tape in such a
>> >> way that will not compete with the functioning of the flare fitting?
>> >
>> >On the threads as a lubricant?
>> >
>>
>> >> You can't.
>> >
>> >Oh, but I do :-O
>>
>> why? because you've jammed up and cross-threaded the nut?
>
then you bullshit thusly:
>No. Finger tight first so I can feel the threads engage, never
>cross-threaded that way. Are you saying that teflon is a way to get a
>cross-threaded nut to tighten? I wouldn't have thought that myself.
>
then you REALLY go off the deep end thusly:
>> >> There is no way you can field apply Teflon tape to the business end of
>> >> a correctly formed flare fitting without it interfering with the seal.
>> >
>> >Well, actually you can, but it is not worth it
>>
>> let's see it we got this straight, mod. *you* are stating that teflon
>between
>> the flare and the seal does NOT interfer with the seal? what ARE you
>thinking?
>
>I am thinking that there are ways you can put teflon between the flare
>and the seal such that it does not interfere with the seal (i.e. the
>seal is made with reasonable torque on the nut), but that it is
>unnecessary and therefore not worth it.
>
>> > Can lead to more
>> >problems especially during disassembly and reassembly.
>> >
>>
>> huh? the slippery teflon makes taking the flare from the seal MORE
>difficult?
>> Really?
>
>It does not make it more difficult to take apart. What it does is
>really increase the risk of getting teflon tape shreds into the tubing
>at time of disassembly, which may be a pain to get out. Those are the
>type of problems of which I wrote. So I don't recommend it at all.
>
>> >We disagree, considering the flare joint as a whole including threads
>> >to draw the pieces together. The lubricant can improve the ability to
>> >compress the flare to proper pressure and thereby improve the
>> >functioning of the flare.
>> >
>>
then you back peddle thusly"
>> yeah, sure, of course. those blasted sticky threads are SUCH a problem.
>
>No, they're not sticky and not a problem at all.
>
>> mod? have you EVER even seen a flare fitting?
>>
>> for the answer to that question, let's look at your next statement. to
>wit:
>>
>> >I've made hundreds
>> >of flare joints in the propane lighting/cooking/refrigeration systems
>> >of several lake cottages
>>
>> so, working on just several ("several" means less than ten at the outside
>to
>> most people) cottages you've made **hundreds** (your word) of flair joints?
>
>> what on Earth caused to make dozens upon dozens upon dozens of connections
>to
>> even one cottage, let alone several? Didn't you learn from your dozens and
>> dozens of mistakes on the first cottage?
>
then you bullshit thusly:
>Have you ever seen a lake cottage that uses propane for lighting,
>cooking & refrigeration? You'd find that we often use 4 flares for
>each appliance: 3 flares at the T where you tap into the main line,
>another flare where you connect to the appliance. Then you have
>shutoff valves here and there, that's another 2 flares each. A single
>modest setup of 7 lights, a fridge, a range, and perhaps a heater get
>you an easy 40 flares.
>
>Yes, "several" cottages means fewer than ten, but closer to ten than
>to three which would have been more like "a few." Of the several, most
>belong to other folks, some of whom have done some of their own work,
>some of whom have had me over to do what I do. Most of the mistakes in
>these matters happened to be those of other people, mistakes that were
>at times discussed over dinner or drinks and from which I learned, but
>I've made a few mistakes of my own of course.
>
>> >so I've had time both to make my mistakes
>>
>> yes, it appears so.
>
then you tell us you've been lying from the start thusly:
>Admitting ones mistakes, learning from them, and then moving on is a
>strength.
>
>-mod.
>
>
>
>
>
>
give it up, mod.
modervador
days ago and certainly knows nothing of how they are used, tries to
speed-read about the subject in a Popular Science do-it-yourself book
at Barnes & Noble till he is recognized again by the staff. Then his
pathological need to compensate by interjecting the last word
especially in matters where he has zero contribution kicks in again,
and he incoherently mumbles the contentless:
jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) wrote in message news:<20020830220404...@mb-fr.aol.com>...
JAXAshby
since the days Packard automobiles were still in production.
Never have seen one that used teflon to separate the flare from its mate, and
never have seen one with sticky threads that could benefit from teflon on its
threaded portion.
>moder...@worldnet.att.net (modervador)
>Date: 9/1/2002 7:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <842f31a0.0209...@posting.google.com>
Mike
be going into therapy because of it. If anything prevents the threads from
snugging up the connection, the joint will leak. NOT from around the
threads, but from the *back* of the nut, where the tubing goes through it.
All the teflon in the world is not going to seal it, and the more tape you
apply, the worse it'll leak, because you're causing the flared tube to be
even further from its mating surface.
Flared soft copper in brass or bronze fittings is designed to be run up
finger-tight, then 1/8 to 1/4 turn after that.
Mike
PS: The Barnes & Noble crack was a good one!
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020901080853...@mb-cm.aol.com...
modervador
didn't know it at the time, when he and Cousin Buck would visit the
A/C units at the neighboring trailers in the park and loosen the
fittings so they could huff the freon (Buck worked the wrenches, Jax
being a little compromised in the area of tools).
jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) wrote in message news:<20020901080853...@mb-cm.aol.com>...
sailor
Low pressure gasses (fluids) are more difficult to control than high
pressure.
Regards,
Earl
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020901080853...@mb-cm.aol.com...
modervador
"Mike" <pill...@telus.net> wrote in message news:<Mkrc9.34294$rn4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>...
modervador
prevents the threads from snugging up the connection, the joint will
any teflon on the threads whatsoever will necessarily lead to an
obstruction of the threads. The threads are not tapered, so if the nut
can be finger tightened, the wrenches have no trouble turning it home.
Of course, it is possible to overdo it and get too much teflon in the
thread gap. No one advocates doing that. An argument against
lubricating the threads at all is that it makes it too easy to
overtighten the nut to the point of deformation. No one advocates
overtightening.
Is it possible in practice to place teflon over the sealing face of
the fitting such that it will seal when mated to the flare of the
copper tube? Yes. Is it a good idea? No. Even if the tape doesn't
shred during initial assembly, it almost certainly will during
disassembly leaving shards of tape in bad places. No one advocates
doing that.
Something to keep in mind: where the tubing goes through the back of
the nut is not part of the seal in the joint, so if it's leaking
through there, it's leaking through the real seal at the face and the
flare. You've already blown it and you need to regroup and maybe do it
again.
To reinforce your statement, trying to seal the joint by gobbing a
sealant, be it with teflon tape or "pipe dope," on the threads and
back of the nut is missing the point of the joint entirely. I have
seen the leaky aftermath of this when others did it, sometimes after
the tubing has been entirely covered by paneling except for the joint
and reflaring is rendered most inconvenient.
As I said, one should know how to do it "dry" before supplementing the
technique with any modification.
-mod.
"Mike" <pill...@telus.net> wrote in message news:<Mkrc9.34294$rn4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>...
arthur unknown
Sorry to jump in late on a thread (couldn't find the original post), but
teflon tape or other sealants should *not* be used on a flare joint.
The flare and "nosing" itself should make the seal completely. *Any*
other sealant (tape or pipe dope) are stop-gap at best, and the nut will
leak out the back end anyways. I hate to say it, JAX, but you're right
on this one. :oş
arthur- 35 years exp. in construction, gas install, etc.
modervador
> Sorry to jump in late on a thread (couldn't find the original post), but
> teflon tape or other sealants should *not* be used on a flare joint.
> The flare and "nosing" itself should make the seal completely. *Any*
> other sealant (tape or pipe dope) are stop-gap at best, and the nut will
> leak out the back end anyways.
You may look up the entire thread at
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=rec.boats.cruising
The teflon and dope are not being advocated as a sealant between the
flare and nosing or anywhere else. They are being proposed as a thread
lubricant to make the job of tightening the nut easier.
-mod.
arthur unknown
Well, do as you wish, but that procedure is not recommended by ASHRAE or
any other codifying body that I am aware of.
Good luck,
arthur
Horace Brownbag
wrote:
It was the dope using the teflon tape that was not being advocated.
...as a former service rep for a propane company...not that it means
that I knew anything...but, it does mean I could tell when someone who
knew less than me worked on a application prior to my
arrival...because teflon tape was put on flair fittings....and that
knowledge was sometimes helpful in finding the trouble my employer
sent me there to correct.
modervador
> It was the dope using the teflon tape that was not being advocated.
I agree. Drugs and propane don't mix.
> ...as a former service rep for a propane company...not that it means
> that I knew anything...but, it does mean I could tell when someone who
> knew less than me worked on a application prior to my
> arrival...because teflon tape was put on flair fittings....and that
> knowledge was sometimes helpful in finding the trouble my employer
> sent me there to correct.
I've used the same technique in diagnostics. Look for the pipe dope
and/or teflon and how it's applied. If you've got one leaker but the
same "signature" tape job on several joints, better to redo them all
while your hands are dirty with it. Same with computer network
cabling, same with house wiring... people leave their mark on a job,
both the good and the bad.
It never ceases to amaze me at how people think that a pipe connection
of any kind can be imbued with magic sealing properties by this
wonderful tape, regardless of how it is applied. A bit is good so a
wad must be better. Or better yet, wrap the outside of the joint with
tape after it's been tightened. They must think it's better than when
they painted dope on the outside of the joint, because teflon is
space-age stuff.
The times I've used tape or dope on a flare, you wouldn't know it till
the joint is disassembled, and you wouldn't be taking it apart on a
trouble report unless to run a new line to another joint that's
leaking because somebody else screwed up.
Since you're in the loop here, can you please give us some horror
stories of stuff you've seen in the field? Makes the day go by faster
and we might learn something.
-mod.
Horace Brownbag
wrote:
<snip>
>Since you're in the loop here, can you please give us some horror
>stories of stuff you've seen in the field? Makes the day go by faster
>and we might learn something.
I went to this one gals house, out in the country...and older house
shaded in trees and crowded by an overgrown garden...in need of some
paint and repair.
This woman, in her 50s, greets me at the door, and leads me into her
dog urine soaked house. Although it's there's snow outside the sun
was out that day, and a nice warm spring day had turned some of the
snow to slush, and heat and humidity within the house have made the
air heavy with the stench, and the woman begins a rambling monolog
that gives me a change to give a one, or two word answer so she can
catch her breath.
Before I could get down to business I had to wend my way through the
stacks of boxes down a hall, around a few corners and into an unused
bedroom that is now used as a storage room, and nursery for the large
cardboard box holding the newest litter from one of her numerous dogs
that have run of the house.
6 flea infested puppies in a stinky, but acceptable clean enough box
that she was so proud of....
I did my best to advice her on the care of puppies, but I was there to
attend to her problem with her propane.
...and that is when it became worse.
I'm trapped in this woman's kitchen...the air is hot and dank, She
has not stopped talking since I stepped inside her house....except to
take a breath, as I has stated earlier....
...and now she is using me as a 'pyscho-therapist' regaling me with
tales of going out to the barn, and catching her boyfriend having sex
with sheep.
"Why would he do that, when he could have ME?", she would squeal, over
and over....gesturing like Let's Make a Deal showgirl, Carol Merrill.
I was tempted to put my head in the oven, and turn on the gas.
The_navigator©
Didn't learn much though.
Cheers MC
Horace Brownbag
<farr...@excite.com> wrote:
>Hahahahhahahahaha
>
>Didn't learn much though.
Keep away from nutty women who have a lot of dogs.
It's so obvious.... In the Life's little rule book, it doesn't get
specifically mentioned.
...but it should have been included, because people like me had to
experience this woman, and her dogs, to fully comprehend the
importance of understanding this basic concept.
Oh, yeah....as I recall them, I will codify the obvious in an easy to
read manual for those who failed to read their copy, and no longer
can tell where they last saw it.
Douglas King
>
> Keep away from nutty women who have a lot of dogs.
I totally agree. Cats, too.
But how does this relate to use of teflon tape on gas fittings?
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
The_navigator©
;-)
Cheers MC
arthur unknown
I think it's obvious, Doug. :o) "...just don't do it."
arthur