Re: Sailboat runs aground in Oxnard, CA

JG

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Mar 22, 2005, 1:53:54 AM3/22/05

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It's a rough coast.

Best advertisement I ever saw was for Oxnard. It was for some resort. It
said, "Oxnard. Not just another pretty name."

"Alan Gomes" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:a8adncHccqo...@comcast.com...
> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html
>

Falky foo

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Mar 22, 2005, 2:53:12 AM3/22/05

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that was a pretty boat too

Alan Gomes

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Mar 22, 2005, 1:43:43 AM3/22/05

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http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html

otnmbrd

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Mar 22, 2005, 3:30:30 PM3/22/05

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Bink B wrote:
> otnmbrd wrote:
>
>> Winds were @20k from the West with a decent size swell.
>> Don't know if it was a nav error, misjudged turn, current and swell
>> problem, or combination of "all of the above".
>> When last I saw her, she was finally broadside to the beach, away from
>> the jetty and rolling about 45deg either way.
>> The winds finally died out about midnight, but considering her
>> construction (heavy), if they don't rig her correctly and have a good
>> deal of luck, pulling her off is not going to be an easy task.
>> Biggest problem now will be getting aboard to rig her.
>>
>> otn
>
>
>
> Hmmm... local info seems to indicate a hidden sandbar was the trouble.
> The captain called for depth info and harbor control said it was tested
> Sunday and all was good. But since that test a 10 foot sandbar appeared
> which caught the boat bottom and started the eventual distress. I guess
> there isn't a lot of extra clearance in the approach to that small harbor.
>
> B

Until the investigation is complete, all sorts of possibilities will
exist and we may never know for sure, but the "hidden sandbar" would not
be high on my list, for causes.
If he's going to use that as a defense, he best get some good
soundings.....soon.

otn

JG

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Mar 22, 2005, 7:18:52 PM3/22/05

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Absolutely. I've found students, especially those who are near the end of
the class I teach, to be quite eagar to get those sails furled and the
halyards unclipped. Bad move if you need to get a sail up quickly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Red CloudŠ" <r...@rustcloud.com> wrote in message
news:pq81411urhehbfhea...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:43:43 -0800, "Alan Gomes" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>>http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html
>>
>
> Some folks are so "neat and orderly" obsessed that they overlook the fact
> that
> sails should not be furled until you are well past tricky entrances. You
> never
> know when you are suddenly going to need them. The story mentions that the
> Irving Johnson's sails were furled. Someone in charge apparently was more
> concerned with style than safety. Dumb move. Bad result. Some key sails
> should
> have been kept at the ready.
>
> red

Bink B

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Mar 22, 2005, 2:21:27 PM3/22/05

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Steve

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Mar 22, 2005, 9:59:23 AM3/22/05

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> That's really a shame. Beautiful vessel. Irving Johnson must be spinning
> in his grave.
>
> DSK
>

I agree.

Irving Johnson was a great sailor and this vessel was intended to carry on
his legacy and tradition.

Ole Capt. Irving would never of gotten the ship into this situation.

From what I read, the ship was only a couple years old and it appears the
weather was fairly clear and calm. I would expect that an investigation
would reveal that the current set the ship south of the main channel jetty.

I have never enter the Oxnard channel but I've seen similar situations
around the entrances to other So. California boat harbors.

In looking at the pictures, I was disappointed to see very small size of the
boat trying to tow the "ship" out into open water. (so much for Vessel
Assist). I wonder if they insisted on the "Capt" signing a tow agreement
before they put a line onboard.

Well, hopefully she will be towed free before any major damage is done and
can sail again (with a new Capt.).

Just my opinion and comments, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Capt. Neal®

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Mar 22, 2005, 10:28:42 PM3/22/05

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I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like
those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article.

They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to
rec.boats please.

CN

"Larry W4CSC" <no...@home.com> wrote in message news:Xns9621E2E...@63.223.7.253...
> "Alan Gomes" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in news:a8adncHccqo9I6LfRVn-
> i...@comcast.com:
>
>> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html
>
> I don't suppose THESE sailors made any comments about shooting at
> jetskiiers with guns and missles.....like I've seen in the past on these
> newsgroups.....(c;
>
> Hypothermia might have been a problem without those "damned jetskiiers" so
> quickly on the scene.....
>

Alan Gomes

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Mar 22, 2005, 10:13:42 AM3/22/05

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The visibility was good but there were high surf advisories at the time.
Ventura and Oxnard harbors were more open to the effects of this than some
of the other harbors down the coast (such as San Pedro/Long Beach, where I'm
located).

I was up there in January. I don't think the harbor is especially tricky to
navigate, though in high surf conditions from the west it could be
difficult. From what I could piece together from the new reports, it appears
to have been a navigation error (i.e., the skipper thought the water was
deeper than it was) rather than losing control in adverse conditions.

--Alan Gomes

"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
news:tqidnc67bvl...@whidbeytel.com...

otnmbrd

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Mar 22, 2005, 10:03:05 PM3/22/05

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Brien Alkire wrote:
> Does anyone know if it was the north or the south entrance?
>
> My cruising guides and charts indicate that the north entrance is subject to
> shoaling and should be avoided. I'm curious which entrance they were making
> for.
>
>

South or <G> East entrance, depending on your point of view.
Sad part is, that in watching, their was a point where the bow was close
to being on the breakwater, that the wind, current, whatever, turned the
boat so that it was pointing to sea.
Considering the boats movement, if there had been someone still aboard
and the engine was still operational, they may have been able to power
her off.
Shortly after this point, the boat turned further to port and beached
port side too.
Presently there are divers in attendance, rigging a tow line with the
hopes of pulling her off in the morning.
All day the wind has been SE 20-30k (not good) and it's obvious she is
silting in ..... hope they make it, but I'm not optimistic.

otn

Message has been deleted

Brien Alkire

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Mar 22, 2005, 6:13:03 PM3/22/05

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otnmbrd

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Mar 22, 2005, 12:14:32 PM3/22/05

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Brien Alkire

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Mar 22, 2005, 1:08:28 PM3/22/05

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> it appears the weather was fairly clear and calm.

The East Santa Barbara buoy data indicates the waves were around 7.5 feet
and continuous winds around 22 knots.

DSK

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Mar 22, 2005, 6:28:53 AM3/22/05

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That's really a shame. Beautiful vessel. Irving Johnson must be spinning
in his grave.

DSK

Alan Gomes wrote:

> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html
>
>

Larry W4CSC

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Mar 22, 2005, 10:15:12 PM3/22/05

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Jim

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Mar 23, 2005, 1:05:16 AM3/23/05

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Alan Gomes wrote:
> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/032105_nw_ship_aground.html
>
>

Those ships (Irving and Exy) are Crelock designs, absolutely beautiful.
I've sailed on them.

I can't understand why the anchors are still aboard and the dinghy is in
the davits. First thing I would have done was to run all the anchors I
could find as far out as possible and try to horse the thing head to the
swell and wind.

Lew Hodgett

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Mar 23, 2005, 12:44:38 AM3/23/05

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capta...@gosailnow.com wrote:

<snip>
> My guess is that as they approached from the south, they did not stand
> off the coast until the last and then run straight in towards the
> detached breakwater(and beach), turning sharply to port inside the lee
> as they rode or followed a wave in. They probably saved time with a
> direct route that kept the seas on the port beam as they aproached and
> found themselves with breaking surf on them at the entrance! Maybe not
> broaching them, yet certainly carrying them precious valuable and non
> affordable feet to leeward, and onto the shoal.

One of the first things I had beat into my head was to NEVER try to cut
the corner of a harbor entrance, especially a new one you have never
been in before.

Stay out and come straight in.

BTW, that strategy is especially useful on Lake Huron, especially on the
lee shore (Canadian side).

From memory, Pt Clarke comes out from shore for over 1/2 mile, and it
definitely not sand.

It has just been announced that the attempt to pull back into deeper
water at high tide tonight had to be abandoned. Water is just too rough.

Next attempt scheduled for 0800 PST, tomorrow morning.

Divers report there are no unwanted holes in the hull; however, engine
compartment is flooded and will be pumped prior to attempt, according to
local news reports.

Lew

capta...@gosailnow.com

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Mar 22, 2005, 11:59:14 PM3/22/05

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It still is......for now...
I was talking to a guy who spent all last week on the yacht, as the
cook.
He told me that the vessel drew 11' and the keel was 73'.....
That would leave little room for error in what I know to be a heavily
shoaled entrance. I was just there last week delivering a motoryacht.

My guess is that as they approached from the south, they did not stand
off the coast until the last and then run straight in towards the
detached breakwater(and beach), turning sharply to port inside the lee
as they rode or followed a wave in. They probably saved time with a
direct route that kept the seas on the port beam as they aproached and
found themselves with breaking surf on them at the entrance! Maybe not
broaching them, yet certainly carrying them precious valuable and non
affordable feet to leeward, and onto the shoal.

Captain Mack
www.gosailnow.com

otnmbrd

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Mar 22, 2005, 11:38:09 PM3/22/05

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The "jetskiers" were members of the local fire/sheriff swiftwater rescue
teams

"Larry W4CSC" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9621E2E...@63.223.7.253...

Lew Hodgett

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Mar 23, 2005, 1:18:20 AM3/23/05

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Jim wrote:

> I can't understand why the anchors are still aboard and the dinghy is in
> the davits. First thing I would have done was to run all the anchors I
> could find as far out as possible and try to horse the thing head to the
> swell and wind.

The seas were such that the dinghy would probably have swamped before
you got 100 ft out.

It is a beautiful boat, but not worth a human life.

Lew

Don White

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Mar 23, 2005, 9:37:38 AM3/23/05

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"Capt. Neal®" <Capt...@Bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:ENWdnQ0CHsr...@terranova.net...

> I certainly would not refer to idiots who would run aground like
> those jerks did, 'sailors'. Sails were furled said the article.
>
> They were motoring - just another motorboat - take it to
> rec.boats please.
>
> CN
>

Oh boy! this *was* a nice peaceful newsgroup......... a respite from the
rabble at wrecked boats.

Jack Painter

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Mar 23, 2005, 5:34:15 PM3/23/05

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"Lew Hodgett" <lewho...@earthlink.net> wrote

The seas were breaking (in the pictures and video) only a hundred+ yards
from the beach, where the vessel is up against the breakwater, and on the
wrong side of the breakwater/channel entrance. Out where he first ran into
trouble would have been the time to drop anchor! Sails are the worst enemy
of a vessel being blown against a lee shore, and furling them might have
been the only smart thing the Captain did, aside from getting everyone off
safe.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Jim

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Mar 23, 2005, 5:44:39 PM3/23/05

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Lew;
It wasn't that rough that day. The dinghy is a 13 foot Avon rib with a
15/20 horse outboard.

I have the same dinghy, with a 25.

That boat will handle a lot more than anything that they could have
found that day.

Steve

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Mar 24, 2005, 9:58:08 AM3/24/05

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Has anyone heard if the attempt to re-float/tow the "Irving Johnson" have
succeeded??

I haven't seen anything in the last 24 hrs on the national news.

The longer she languishes there, the less hope there is for a successful
attempt.

Thanks.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Message has been deleted

Joe

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Mar 24, 2005, 12:52:26 PM3/24/05

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Red Cloud© wrote:

> >
>
> For the latest information:
> http://www.lamitopsail.org/index.asp
>
> rusty

Thanks Bobspirt!

Joe
MSV RedCloud
The boat to envy

otnmbrd

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Mar 24, 2005, 1:58:12 PM3/24/05

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This mornings attempt, unsuccessful

Message has been deleted

Bink B

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Mar 24, 2005, 5:34:36 PM3/24/05

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otnmbrd wrote:
> This mornings attempt, unsuccessful
>
>

They have it turned. Next attempt tonight but the high tide is much lower.

B

otnmbrd

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Mar 25, 2005, 12:27:16 AM3/25/05

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Towed it off around 2030 tonight.

Message has been deleted

Jim

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Mar 25, 2005, 12:03:15 PM3/25/05

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Red CloudŠ wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:24:03 GMT, Red CloudŠ <r...@rustcloud.com> wrote:

>>For the latest information:
>>http://www.lamitopsail.org/index.asp
>>
>>rusty
>
>

> The Irving Johnson has been successfully towed to deeper water and appears to be
> intact.
>
> rusty redcloud

The people who built those little ships really did an amazing job. Took
quite a pounding. Every morning I expected the worst.

And Jim Gladson deserved a lot of credit for his management style, from
what I saw.

I guess we all can learn from this to have a plan for such an emergency.

I still wonder why those anchors were still in their chocks.

Bink B

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Mar 25, 2005, 2:45:47 PM3/25/05

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No question that Jim Gladson and Charles Heil deserve a ton of credit
for designing the salvage operation. Those two have been instrumental in
designing and building these two rock solid ships and now, also, in
saving the Irving Johnson. Hats off to them! The amount of sleep
they've had since Monday could fill a thimble.

B

Ben

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Mar 25, 2005, 4:31:59 PM3/25/05

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There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie

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Mar 26, 2005, 2:31:40 PM3/26/05

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In article <Qmh1e.4653$gI5....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
otnmbrd <otn...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> The problem with running out the anchors in this particular case,
> immediately after the grounding, was SAFELY getting to them and working
> them with a small boat in the given sea conditions and considering all
> else that is going on regarding passenger and crew safety with the close
> proximity of the breakwater.
> There will be much "Monday Morning Quaterbacking" about this. In time
> some viable options may/will arise, but the most important
> considerations are that passengers, crew and vessel are all saved.
>
> otn

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.

Me

Maxprop

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Mar 26, 2005, 5:55:36 PM3/26/05

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"Gogarty" <Gog...@Clongowes.edu> wrote in message

Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run
aground.

Max

Gogarty

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Mar 26, 2005, 6:06:08 PM3/26/05

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In article <Me-3387F1.10...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
M...@shadow.orgs says...

>I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
>Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
>suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
>Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
>Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
>For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
>how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.
>

You are prejudging a situation where you were not present and have no way of
knowinbg all the factors at the time.

John Cairns

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Mar 26, 2005, 7:15:57 PM3/26/05

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"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:ILl1e.9439$S46....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water.

John Cairns

otnmbrd

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Mar 26, 2005, 9:08:00 PM3/26/05

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Me wrote:

>
>
> I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
> Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
> suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
> Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
> Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
> For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
> how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.
>
>
> Me

Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is
that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this
and/or why, will determine much of what happens next.

As for license exams......
An exam is only an indication of how well someone takes exams and knows
basic information. From there, it becomes the onus of the
owners/managers of the particular vessel, to determine the suitability
of an individual to perform under that license.
If you look at those individuals giving the test for US upper licenses,
I doubt you'd find one who is themselves, qualified to hold that license.

otn

JG

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Mar 26, 2005, 9:51:21 PM3/26/05

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My experience is that if you don't get out there and sail, you don't run
aground.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"John Cairns" <jgcairn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1Xm1e.18529$Ki....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

Horvath

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Mar 27, 2005, 7:18:51 AM3/27/05

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On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:51:21 -0800, "JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote
this crap:

>My experience is that if you don't get out there and sail, you don't run
>aground.

That is such a dickless comment. No guts, no glory, Jon-boy.

Hor...@Horvath.net

This post is 100% free of steroids

Gogarty

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Mar 27, 2005, 8:06:32 AM3/27/05

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In article <1Xm1e.18529$Ki....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>,
jgcairn...@sbcglobal.net says...

In which case you get a boat with a swing keel. When you hit something, just
crank 'er up. Been there, done that and many valuable lessons cheaply
learned.

Gogarty

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Mar 27, 2005, 8:12:04 AM3/27/05

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In article <4Ao1e.5070$gI5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
otn...@earthlink.net says...
>

>
>Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is
>that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this
>and/or why, will determine much of what happens next.
>

Nearly did something similar once approaching Shinnecock Inlet on Long
Island. We were coming from the west along the shore and aimed for the buoy
just off the jetty when I noticed an awful lot of white water where there
should not have been any. Changed direction to the sea buoy and then came
straight in to the inlet from there. Lots of shoaling on either side of the
inlet well out past the jetties.

John Cairns

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Mar 27, 2005, 1:34:08 PM3/27/05

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"Gogarty" <Gog...@Clongowes.edu> wrote in message

news:fe2dnaLHAeI...@bway.net...

Or a wing keel :)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/21839775/201593556HoPljK

John Cairns

Me

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Mar 27, 2005, 2:22:08 PM3/27/05

to

In article <heGdna4eSZf...@bway.net>,
Gogarty <Gog...@Clongowes.edu> wrote:

I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
Passengers are put at risk.

Me

Gogarty

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Mar 27, 2005, 3:46:13 PM3/27/05

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In article <Me-2C43DE.10...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, M...@shadow.orgs
says...
>

>I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
>what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
>documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
>up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
>Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
>Passengers are put at risk.
>

Not arguing with you about that at all. I agree. I also agree the poor skipper
is no doubt in serious trouble. But we don't know yet.

I keep thinking about Capt. Brown of the USS Missouri who went on the mud
approaching Newport Roads. He wasn't on watch. End of career. Or the skippewr
of that submaraine that hit the undersea mountain recently. End of career. And
he was just a victim of bad luck. But then, hindsight is marvelous, especially
among people who were not there.

Wayne.B

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Mar 28, 2005, 12:07:27 PM3/28/05

to

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:34:08 GMT, "John Cairns"
<jgcairn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>> In which case you get a boat with a swing keel. When you hit something,
>> just
>> crank 'er up. Been there, done that and many valuable lessons cheaply
>> learned.
>>
>
>Or a wing keel :)

==========================

The problem with a wing keel is that you can not free the boat up by
heeling it over which is the classic solution for getting unstuck.

Wayne.B

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Mar 28, 2005, 12:12:22 PM3/28/05

to

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:46:13 -0500, Gogarty <Gog...@Clongowes.edu>
wrote:

>Or the skipper

>of that submaraine that hit the undersea mountain recently. End of career.

=======================

Has that been determined for a fact?

Wayne.B

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Mar 28, 2005, 12:11:33 PM3/28/05

to

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 08:12:04 -0500, Gogarty <Gog...@Clongowes.edu>
wrote:

>Changed direction to the sea buoy and then came
>straight in to the inlet from there. Lots of shoaling on either side of the
>inlet well out past the jetties.

============================

That's a good point. The sea buoys are usually positioned where they
are for a reason.

Don W

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Mar 28, 2005, 12:54:02 PM3/28/05

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Wayne.B wrote:
>
> The problem with a wing keel is that you can not free the boat up by
> heeling it over which is the classic solution for getting unstuck.
>

That depends on how far you heel it over ;-)

Don W.

Gogarty

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Mar 28, 2005, 3:57:43 PM3/28/05

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In article <mmeg41h6n3h1s9obh...@4ax.com>,
waynebatr...@hotmail.com says...

I believe he was courtmartialed and accused of travelling to fast and paying
proper attention to navigation in a chancy area. Yes, his career is over.

Ben

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Mar 29, 2005, 12:21:10 AM3/29/05

to

Umm... you haven't done much sailing on brigantines have you. I've run
two diffferent tallships (a schooner and a brig) and own my own 40
footer. I would agree with that statement for small boats but not for
the hundred foot plus traditional rigs. Generally I (and the officiers
I've sailed under) are more interested in reducing windage (of which
those boats have A LOT of) and increasing visibility.

Ben

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Mar 29, 2005, 12:22:50 AM3/29/05

to

Probably not swamped a 12 or 14 foot rib (which they might carry) but
launching the small boat is really challanging (read dangerous) in a
good seaway.

Ben

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Mar 29, 2005, 12:26:37 AM3/29/05

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The other thing you will find is tests that don't relate to 90% of what
the master of a traditional vessel does in a day.

DSK

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Mar 29, 2005, 2:36:50 PM3/29/05

to

And more so when the boat is aground and has no ability or tendency to
move in sympathy with the waves.

DSK

Horvath

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Mar 29, 2005, 6:37:43 PM3/29/05

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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:36:50 -0500, DSK <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
this crap:

>>
>
>And more so when the boat is aground and has no ability or tendency to
>move in sympathy with the waves.
>
>DSK

DSK is a lying cocksucker, and a coward.

DSK has posted blatent lies on this newsgroup, and when he is proven
to be a liar, he doesn't have the balls to defend himself.

Larry W4CSC

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Mar 29, 2005, 7:54:01 PM3/29/05

to

Horvath <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in
news:llpj41triuosqaig2...@4ax.com:

> DSK is a lying cocksucker, and a coward.
>
> DSK has posted blatent lies on this newsgroup, and when he is proven
> to be a liar, he doesn't have the balls to defend himself.
>
>
>
> Hor...@Horvath.net
>
> This post is 100% free of steroids
>

Oh, oh.....rec.boat's disease, again......

Gogarty

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Mar 29, 2005, 10:56:06 PM3/29/05

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In article <llpj41triuosqaig2...@4ax.com>,
Te...@Fartingmor.com says...

>
>
>On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:36:50 -0500, DSK <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
>this crap:
>
>>>
>>
>>And more so when the boat is aground and has no ability or tendency to
>>move in sympathy with the waves.
>>
>>DSK
>
>
>DSK is a lying cocksucker, and a coward.
>
>DSK has posted blatent lies on this newsgroup, and when he is proven
>to be a liar, he doesn't have the balls to defend himself.
>

Plonk!

Never thought I would have to kill file someone in this group.

Jeff

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Mar 30, 2005, 10:05:44 AM3/30/05

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He isn't from "this group," this is the result of crossposting.

Gogarty

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Mar 30, 2005, 11:33:04 AM3/30/05

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In article <zuGdnSHlRdj...@comcast.com>,
jef...@nospam-at-all-sv-loki.com says...

>
>> Never thought I would have to kill file someone in this group.
>>
>
>He isn't from "this group," this is the result of crossposting.

Nonetheless, he is still showing up here. Or was.

I have nothing against cross-posting per se.

Jeff

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Mar 30, 2005, 1:35:16 PM3/30/05

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Crossposting to two "polite" groups is not a problem. But it always
brings in the lowest common denominator. ASA, in particular, is
getting nasty now, and it could get a *lot* worse in the near future.

ben.s...@gmail.com

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Apr 23, 2005, 5:43:12 AM4/23/05

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Actually Captain Brown was not only on watch he was on the bridge and
ignoring advice from his XO and the Quartermaster at the time.

-Ben-
Volunteer
USS Missouri (BB-63)

Gogarty

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Apr 23, 2005, 7:14:26 AM4/23/05

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In article <1114249392....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
ben.s...@gmail.com says...

Thanks for setting me straight. It was a long time ago.

I visited the Missouri when she made a courtesy call at Marblehead,
Mass., immediately after the war. Must have been 1946. Very, very
impressive. Not much security in those days. A friend of mine made off
with a hand grenade in a cardboard container, then went around town
showing it to his friends. He was ejected from everyone's house instantly
and eventually the cops showed up and retrieved the hand grenade. He was
not taken into custody (nor was I for shooting out street lights with my
.22 -- took the gun away and told me I could have it back if I came with
my father to the police station. I think they still have it.) Anyway, my
friend eventually graduated from Annapolis, became a flyer and retired as
a Captain. What do you suppose will become of the five-year-old girl they
handcuffed in Florida?

Capt. Neal®

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Apr 23, 2005, 9:39:22 AM4/23/05

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"Gogarty" <Gog...@Clongowes.edu> wrote in message news:T4mdndJxd8M...@bway.net...

> What do you suppose will become of the five-year-old girl they
> handcuffed in Florida?
>

Sad that child temper tantrums which used to be cured by a good spanking now
are handled by cuffing and stuffing!

The parent(s) of this five-year-old have already failed their daughter.

CN