Spinnaker for singlehanding
Dave Pomerantz
I have an Albin Vega (27' sloop built in 1971) which is rigged nicely for
singlehanding. It's a bit slow off the wind, and up to now, I've been
winging the 130% genoa on a whisker pole. I've considered getting a
spinnaker, partly because a Vega owner in Newburyport reported good success
with a new spinnaker he bought last year.
Does anyone here regularly singlehand with a spinnaker? What kind of
spinnaker would you recommend? How do you have it rigged for easy raising
and lowering? Is it worth the trouble? Is it too risky?
Thanks in advance,
Dave Pomerantz
S/V WishCraft
(remove the '_nospam' from my reply address if you want to respond directly)
michael burkhart
May I suggest you ask about a genniker instead.
Charlie Mayne
Dave,
I have a 30' masthead sloop that I often sail solo with an asymmetrical
spinnaker. It does not require a pole, so single handed sailing is much
easier than with a symmetrical chute. It is not as fat at the head, so
using a snuffing sock works quite well. This also helps with handling
it solo. I'd say it is not as much fun as a symmetrical chute: there aren't
as many things to tweak; but for solo cruising it is a good way to go.
It is still a kite, even without a pole, so it keeps you paying attention.
I often put it up as my only sail for short outings. It is easier to control
with the main up too, though. I have seen roller furling setups for
asymmetrical chutes, but I think I like a snuffer better. The bad press I hear
about snuffers is that sometimes you can't get them down with a full sail, but
I think that happens with symmetrical chutes with a much fuller head. If the
spinnaker gets wrapped or the snuffer jams, you can still get the sail down
by releasing the halyard, just as if there were no sock.
An asymmetrical doesn't work as well as a symmetrical at deep downwind angles.
If you want to go dead downwind, you can use a whisker pole like you would
with a genoa; but it is really a reaching sail.
Cheers,
Charlie
CS30 "Sprite"
--
Charlie Mayne | Motorola Incorporated
char...@pets.sps.mot.com | Microprocessor Products Group
| Austin, Texas 78735-8598
"I am concerned about my memory. But, for the life of me, I can't recall why."
Christian Reimer
I have successfully set, trimmed and doused a normal spinnaker on our 42
foot sloop by myself. I was not actually single-handed (there were two other
people onboard), but I was the only one pulling any strings :-) Using a
spinnaker sock I feel quite at ease using the chute, but if I was to
single-hand a passage, I would probably use a cruising spinnaker, because I
would not have to watch it all the time... I have sailed as bow-man on a J44
for a few years and feel that using a spinnaker is (relatively) safe and
usually fun if you know what you are doing. There is nothing worse than
sailing downwind for several days without the proper downwind sails.
My advise would be to get either a normal or a cursing spinnaker (whatever
you feel like) and to get a GOOD spinnaker sock. Add some common sense and
you should be trouble free.
Christian
Mary Merwin & Bob Cross
You might want to consider a cruising chute which is set without a
pole. I've used one for years , singlehanded with no problem..
Advantages are no pole or lines to mess with, pretty much sets itself.
Disadvantages; can't sail dead downwind and can't jibe...but if you're
cruising rather than day sailing it really makes no difference. Try one
with a 'sock'.
--
"the adventure is in the journey not in the destination"
Paul Kamen
On a boat like a Vega, you really don't have the speed to pull the
apparent wind very far forward in anything but drifting condtions. So
this tends to rule out an asymmetrical spinnaker, and the only reasonable
option for making decent progress downwind is a conventional poled
spinnaker.
With a little practice you'll have no trouble singlehanding with the
spinnaker. There are lots of tricks, of course, most of them
boat-specific. It might be worth finding an experienced racer to "show you
the ropes" for the first couple of times.
--
fish...@netcom.com
http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html
-"Call me Fishmeal"-
Carl Vorn
> Does anyone here regularly singlehand with a spinnaker? What kind of
> spinnaker would you recommend? How do you have it rigged for easy raising
> and lowering? Is it worth the trouble? Is it too risky?
An asymmetrical chute (jenniker) when attached to the jib tack will only
be
good from about 80 to 150 degrees apparent... maybe 160 degrees if you
reef
the main. Below that, it'll be pretty much useless. You could set it
from
a spinnaker pole or wing it out for dead-down wind, but at that point
you've made it just as complex as a symmetrical chute.
On my boat (an Express 37) I will be carrying both an asymmetrical chute
for
reaching and a symmetrical chute for downwind. With a good snuffer (the
ATN is the best) I can snuff the chute, gybe the pole and set the chute
in just a few minutes.
Paul
Skip
Having sailed many solo offshore miles under spinnaker in my 27
footer, I would respectfully disagree with those who advise an
asymmetrical or snuffer for your Vega 27.
Except on sport boats, an asymmetrical doesn't go downwind worth
beans, unless using a pole to the tack, just like a symmetrical. You
know, a symmetrical can be flown without a pole, if that is important.
As for snuffers, on such a small boat, it is just more
complication, gear, trips to the foredeck, and expense. (If you want
one, you can buy mine cheap.)
In the time it takes to write this post, I could have dropped and
bagged my symmetrical spinnaker without leaving the cockpit.
Say the wind has gone to 20 knots, the boat is lurching along
downwind as the tiller pilot begins to smoke. First, I quickly ease
the pole to the headstay, and then ease the guy 10 feet more, while
snugging the foreguy. Time: 5 sec. Second, I pull in the sheet till
the clew is even with the boom, and cleat the sheet. This blankets the
spinnaker behind the main, and secures the corner in case of calamity.
Time: 5 sec. Third, I let the halyard run,leaving one wrap on the
winch for friction, gather the spinnaker under the boom, and stuff it
down the hatch, making sure the stove is turned off. Time: 10 seconds.
So, the drop time totals about 20 seconds, all done from the
cockpit. The guy, sheet, and halyard stay attached until later. Now
it is time to wing out the 130% jib. Here is where hanks are a
blessing. But roller furling would do as well. I make my way to the
bow and put the windward jib sheet thru the pole jaws. I go aft and
square the pole, then I hoist. The jib never hits the water, and the
wind pressure sends it up the stay with little effort
The tiller pilot has stopped smoking, but the windvane is going to
do better with this combo, so I switch over. Then I stop the spinnaker
halfway down, with yarn, as well as one clew. Now the spinnaker
becomes a cockpit beanbag chair and it is time for a cookie.
Skip
Wylie-27 "WILDFLOWER"
Capitola, CA
Al Gunther
In article <fishmealE...@netcom.com>, fish...@netcom.com (Paul
Kamen) wrote:
> With a little practice you'll have no trouble singlehanding with the
> spinnaker. There are lots of tricks, of course, most of them
> boat-specific. It might be worth finding an experienced racer to "show you
> the ropes" for the first couple of times.
This makes me wonder about something. I've got a full sized spinnaker that
was on the boat when I bought it. I've used the pole and fore guy on a
genoa but have never had the nerve to put up the big chute since I mostly
solo and have never had anyone on the boat who's ever used a spinnaker.
I've never seen anything like a half sized spinnaker. At half size, it
must be a lot easier to handle and would still be bigger than my main and
largest jib together. It would not only be very useful for training, but
might be better for running DDW in heavy air than running wing and wing.
In thinking about how the size might be reduced, it wouldn't do to shorten
the luff/leach because the pole would either be too high or the tack too
far from the mast, so the foot would have to be shortened. Now this would
be interesting, a spinnaker with a half size foot.
Has anyone ever heard of this being tried?
--
Al Gunther, Kingston, WA <---- 47° 52.7'N, 122° 30.9'W
Please remove the "X" in my return address to reply.
Paul Kamen
agun...@silverlink.net (Al Gunther) writes:
>...a spinnaker with a half size foot.
>
>Has anyone ever heard of this being tried?
The traditional "shy kite" is full length on the luffs, but very short on
the girths, especially up high. But the benefits in control are not
really that great, beacause it still has to span the distance from the
pole to the halyard sheave, and is subject to the same kinds of
oscillation.
One system that I used with some success is a centerline reef line, run
from the halyard shackle down along the centerline of the spinnaker
(inside a hollow tape) to a block at the stem, then back to a spare
halyard winch. Pulling in on this line would produce an "elephant ass"
effect, reducing the projected area and changing the section shape from
an unstable semicircle to a very stable inverted V shape. It made the
spinnaker look more like twin jibs when it was all the way on.
Peter Bennett
>I have an Albin Vega (27' sloop built in 1971) which is rigged nicely for
>singlehanding. It's a bit slow off the wind, and up to now, I've been
>winging the 130% genoa on a whisker pole. I've considered getting a
>spinnaker, partly because a Vega owner in Newburyport reported good success
>with a new spinnaker he bought last year.
>
>Does anyone here regularly singlehand with a spinnaker?
Yes
> What kind of
>spinnaker would you recommend? How do you have it rigged for easy raising
>and lowering?
I have a normal symmetrical racing spinnaker, and "normal" rigging -
nothing special for single-handing. Standard rig on my boat (Yamaha
30) has spinn halyard and pole control lines all on the aft end of the
cabintop. I do have a friction device on my tiller, so it will stay
where I put it - that or the AutoHelm help to keep the boat on course
while raising, dropping, or gybing the sail.
>Is it worth the trouble?
Yes!
> Is it too risky?
Yes!! :-)
You should try to get some spinnaker experience before doing it alone.
First time, do it in fairly light air - 5 - 8 knots, perhaps - not too
light, or it won't fly... (I did teach a spinnaker course once where
the wind was so light we had to motor astern to get the sail to fly -
not fun...)
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver-webpages.com/van-ps
PrinceMyshkin
We had a tri-radial full spinnaker on our Dawson 26 which I would single hand
from time to time. Took some practice, mainly to get things set up proeprly in
the first place so that all the lines did not tangle. Used a sock, which was
very helpful but also added to the complexity and another source of spinnaker
wrap if not set up properly. It remains, however, that a full spinnaker in a
blow is a handful indeed. The forces are enormous. Whatever you do *NEVER EVER*
tie a stopper knot in the sheets. Better to have the damned thing flying from
the masthead than dragging the boat under.
We now have a 37 footer. I doubt we will get a spinnaker for her since only my
wife and I handle the boat most of the time. But I am looking at a cruising
spinnaker and whisker pole.
______________-
"Life is a spinnaker wrap!" - pjb
Ron Dwelle
Dave Pomerantz wrote:
> I have an Albin Vega (27' sloop built in 1971) which is rigged nicely for
> singlehanding. It's a bit slow off the wind, and up to now, I've been
> winging the 130% genoa on a whisker pole. I've considered getting a
> spinnaker, partly because a Vega owner in Newburyport reported good success
> with a new spinnaker he bought last year.
> Does anyone here regularly singlehand with a spinnaker? What kind of
> spinnaker would you recommend? How do you have it rigged for easy
raising
> and lowering? Is it worth the trouble? Is it too risky?
------------------
A cruising spinnaker or genniker is probably unnecessary on an Albin
Vega. The normal chute isn't so big that it's a problem, and a cruising
chute has much less area and much less power, especially if you don't
want to tack downwind. Now when you get to bigger fore-triangles (like
over 16-17-foot J and a 50-foot-plus mast) then the regular chute gets
to be a handful, especially if your boat's a little squirrelly on the
helm.
If you're buying a chute, you could have the sailmaker cut it a little
less full which would make handling even easier in heavier air and not
cause that much of a loss in efficiency. Sailmakers always try to make
sails, assuming they're going to be used at 90-100% efficiency, but you
never come near that singlehanded.
Thomas Ling
Boy, there are a great deal of good facts and experiences on spinnaker
users in this thread. Spinnaker,like snow flakes ,no two are alike, even
from the same loft making you two identical spinnakers. My favorite is the
one that TRIM easy and does not want CONSTANT trimming when wind is
varying.
For Vega 27 footer,single handed, both types of spinnaker would be easy to
handle, it is matter of time to learn the shortcuts to both. IMO I prefere
symmeterical over the asymmertical. 1) easier to gybe ( unless you have a
bow pole ).
2)go deeper downwind 3)less trimming than genniker 4) seldom you need
more than one wrap around the winch ( the sheet), because the force is
much less than if you travelling higher. 5) sheets much shorter and can
drop down one size.
Shortcuts:
Spinnaker halyard exit from mast with cam cleats for ease of raising
and lowering.Less likely to get knick if you have less number of turning
blocks to go thru.
No knots (mentioned).
No excess lines ( I disagree with West Marine recommendation of the length
of spinnaker sheets ), I usually use around the length of 1-2/3 LOA.
Try before buying a sock for the spinnaker, I found it be more troublesome
with more lines to look after. This can always be retrofitted.
In heavy air ,to lower the chute,( good points from Skip), depower the
spinnaker quickly by letting the foreguy run ( no excess line), spinnaker
would fly like a flag,(follow Skip's step).
Forespar has a spinnaker end adapter for single-handed dip-pole technique
using lazy sheets and blocks, I never used it, great for off-shore.
Make sure your fore-peak area have no SHARP edges, it save you money in
sail repair bill.
In light air I have this iron sail that works great.
cheers, Thomas Ling
PS>Pick up some real cheap spinnaker and learn to fly, you will probably
like it. Put a few holes and make your quote now, later on it will hurt. I
have no spinnaker on my present sailboat.
Dave Pomerantz
Thanks for all your replies.
Of those who stated an opinion on cruising vs. symmetrical spinnakers: 4
were in favor of cruising, 4 were in favor of symmetrical, 2 said either was
fine as long it was properly rigged. Some favored socks, some opposed -- I
suspect that means poorly-made socks are worse than none at all; expensive
well-made socks are valuable, but perhaps not worth the hassle on a small
boat like mine.
In practice, I seem to frequently face conditions where the wind is nearly
dead astern and I seem to be tacking downwind. In those conditions, it
would be nice to have a bit of power, especially as I have a small, slow,
full-keel cruising boat, so I like the idea of a symmetrical spinnaker. I'm
getting fairly comfortable with managing the boat alone and I could
certainly learn to handle it in fair winds.
On the other hand, I'm not particularly strong (fit, but over 40 and only
5'6" and 135 lbs) and I almost never have a crew, so I'm wary of getting
into conditions where I'm dealing with powerful forces. I also hate
spending the entire day watching and trimming the sails. That gets pretty
old. The cruising spinnaker seems easier to control. Plus, I clearly
remember those times where I've passed through a front, seen the wind shift
90 degrees, and gone from cruising controllably downwind under main and
winged jib, to fighting the boat as she suddenly swung upwind and heeled
hard over and the whisker pole is pinning the jib to leeward. Five minutes
later, everything's back under control but I'm a nervous wreck and sport a
few skinned knuckles. I can only imagine the fun that would be with a
symmetrical chute.
I liked the idea of a centerline reef in a symmetrical spinnaker. This
could take a lot of the oomph out of the sail in stronger winds, making it
easier to control and to douse. Has anyone else used this?
At this point I think I'll get a few quotes from sailmakers, and keep
watching this thread. Thanks very much for all your comments. Keep
talking!!!
Dave
Dave Pomerantz
Thomas,
It seems that you and Skip have a good deal of experience with this.
Despite my concerns about dealing with an overpowered sail, I'm leaning
toward the symmetrical without a sock.
Your specific recommendations are excellent. Thank you.
>Spinnaker halyard exit from mast with cam cleats for ease of raising
>and lowering.Less likely to get knick if you have less number of turning
>blocks to go thru.
Do you mean, at the base of the mast, where the spinnaker sheets come down
(mine would be external) to cleat it off there to reduce amount of kinks and
turns in the line? Using Skip's methods, I would use a block and a line
organizer to direct the line to the cockpit and release the chute there, so
I could stuff it down the hatch. What do you think?
>Forespar has a spinnaker end adapter for single-handed dip-pole technique
>using lazy sheets and blocks, I never used it, great for off-shore.
I'll look into that, but I too don't go off-shore, so depends on cost.
>Make sure your fore-peak area have no SHARP edges, it save you money in
>sail repair bill.
Good suggestion. I have a few things to clean up in the foredeck.
>PS>Pick up some real cheap spinnaker and learn to fly, you will probably
>like it. Put a few holes and make your quote now, later on it will hurt. I
>have no spinnaker on my present sailboat.
What do you mean "Put a few holes and make your quote now, later on it will
hurt."?
Dave
Paul Kamen
Dave Pomerantz <dave@nospam_targetsoft.com> writes:
>...I also hate spending the entire day watching and trimming
>the sails. That gets pretty old. The cruising spinnaker
>seems easier to control...
I think this is the only part of your post that might need some
correction. While asymmetrical spinnakers might be marginally easier to
"control" in some situations, they require much more attention to trim
when you're trying to sail downind.
Think of it this way: Any sailboat ever built sails just fine on a reach.
Downwind and upwind are the problem directions. If the purpose of the
spinnaker is to get downwind without feeling like all the life has gone
out of the boat, then the symmetrical poled spinnaker is really the only
viable option for that type of boat.
Dave Pomerantz
That's an important point, Paul, thanks for bringing that out. At this
point I'm leaning toward the symmetrical spinnaker. Next I think I'll talk
to sailmakers, or look for a used sail.
Dave
Robby Robinson
This has been an interesting thread -- my experience--
In the 70's & 80's I did a lot of Singlehanding - one trip to Hawaii --
on a 28' Hawkfarm which is similar to Skip's boat. I used a class 1.2
oz (symmetrical) spinnaker. Like Skip I tried a sock made by North
Sails and gave it up as too complicated.
By 88 I owned Rolling Stone, a 36' IOR 1-tonner. A singlehanded trip to
Hawaii that year proved much harder with the larger spinnaker (and older
body). Gybing and dousing the spinnaker in the 25kts + trades was a
handful -- I wish I had tried the sock again.
I believe Stan Honey used a sock when he won (and broke the record) in
the 94 Singlehanded TRANSPAC with his Cal-40. My point here is that
size of boat matters.
If I didn't have the pole, topping lift, foreguy etc., I think I would
be tempted to get an asymmetrical spinnaker and tack downwind so I was
always reaching. Or if I had a multihull or very fast (light --
planing) monohull that would bring the apparent wind forward I'd choose
an asymmetrical.
Since neither of the above apply (for me) I'm happy with the symmetrical
spinnaker. I might try the sock again, then again, I might just jump
directly to the power boat :-)
--
Regards Robby [rob...@pacbell.net]
S/V Rolling Stone http://www.selfsteer.com/rolling-stone.jpg
Visit home of MONITOR windvanes: http://www.selfsteer.com/
PrinceMyshkin
In article <fishmealE...@netcom.com>, fish...@netcom.com says...
> While asymmetrical spinnakers might be marginally easier to
>"control" in some situations, they require much more attention to trim
>when you're trying to sail downind.
>
>Think of it this way: Any sailboat ever built sails just fine on a reach.
>Downwind and upwind are the problem directions. If the purpose of the
>spinnaker is to get downwind without feeling like all the life has gone
>out of the boat, then the symmetrical poled spinnaker is really the only
>viable option for that type of boat.
Crikey! You are making me rethink my options, symmetrical vs. cruising
spinnaker on our 37 foot O'Day with only two people at most. Despite terrifying
broaches on our old 26 footer. Just don't have $3,000 available just now for
all the sail and setup. Just ordered a new main.
______________
"Life is a spinnaker wrap!" pjb
Rodney Myrvaagnes
You really should rethink. My wife and I (ca age 60) have used symmetrical
chutes cruising on J35 and J36 for 12 years. You really need it when in a
river and it is too narrow to tack downwind. An O'Day 37 is by no means too
big for two to fly a chute.
In message <69c4e6$k...@camel20.mindspring.com> - p...@pipeline.com
(PrinceMyshkin) writes:
:>
:>Crikey! You are making me rethink my options, symmetrical vs. cruising
:>spinnaker on our 37 foot O'Day with only two people at most. Despite terrifying
:>broaches on our old 26 footer. Just don't have $3,000 available just now for
:>all the sail and setup. Just ordered a new main.
:>
:>______________
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a rod...@ibm.net
20 years without a car, a TV, or a home page
PrinceMyshkin
In article <34b99...@news3.ibm.net>, rod...@ibm.net says...
>
>You really should rethink. My wife and I (ca age 60) have used symmetrical
>chutes cruising on J35 and J36 for 12 years. You really need it when in a
>river and it is too narrow to tack downwind. An O'Day 37 is by no means too
>big for two to fly a chute.
If I had the $3,000 to spare just now, Rodney, I think I would.
Peter, your former Commodore
Paul C. Uhl
Dave,
I use our Gennekar all the time. This is a spinnaker with a sock--or
essentially a very large genny. It's easy toi raise, fly, douse, and
lower. I've considered going to a regular spinnaker but will probably
add a whisker pole to wing out the chute before I try to single hand a
spinnaker and all the controll lines.
Paul
Charlie Mayne
"Dave Pomerantz" <dave@nospam_targetsoft.com> writes:
>Thanks for all your replies.
>Of those who stated an opinion on cruising vs. symmetrical spinnakers: 4
>were in favor of cruising, 4 were in favor of symmetrical, 2 said either was
>fine as long it was properly rigged. Some favored socks, some opposed ...
Not too surprising that the responses were all over the place. In the end,
it is your boat and you can decide for yourself what to do. That is one of
the things I like best about sailboats.
>In practice, I seem to frequently face conditions where the wind is nearly
>dead astern and I seem to be tacking downwind. ...
That is a pretty strong point in favor of symmetrical. I am happy with
my asymmetrical, but I am essentially daysailing and prefer reaching over
running and I don't have to go far dead downwind unless I want to.
>On the other hand, I'm not particularly strong ...
Nobody is strong enough to manhandle big sails, you have to have good
technique.
I sail singlehanded a lot. The thing I think would be most helpful is an
autopilot of some sort to steer while I handle sails. It works well enough
to get things balanced and set the wheel brake, but I end up going back and
forth between the wheel and the deck more than I would like.
Paul C. Uhl
I just received the new issue of SAIL magazine and it has a nice long
article about Asymetrical Spinnakers (Gennaker, MPS, Strangler, etc) in
it.
Mark Parker
I would love to hear more about this 'elephant's ass' spinnaker. Can
you post details, maybe even a pic or diagram?
--
Mark T. Parker
73 Prospect Hill Pax vobiscum
Hancock, NH 03449 frater mei
(603) 525-3438
Paul C. Uhl
You may want to look at the February issue of SAIL magazine. They have
an article about asymmetrical spinnakers in it.
Paul