Advice: Catalina 22' or SanJuan 21'
Bill Holstein
My wife and I are faced with a most difficult problem.
We have agreed to purchase a small sail boat this summer,
however not having much experience with what is available,
we can't make an educated decision.
The most likely candidate we have seen to date is a
1972 Catalina 22'. It was set up as follows:
22' Catalina w swing keel, kick-up rudder, & pop-top (mint)
Bimini and pop-top cover (fair)
Main and working jib ( two small holes in main)
Slide away sink/cooler/stove
Compass/Depth/wind speed/knot log
Two batteries
8 Hp Honda O.B - 4-cycle/altenator
2-axle trailer (rusty, no brakes)
The owner is asking $4500. Resonable ?????
We have also seen an add for a 1972 San Juan 21'
Main/Genoa/Spinnaker/jib
Autohelm ST-50 speed/distance/depth/timer/compass
4.5 H.P. Evinrude Deluxe
sink/stove
Fleet captain trailer/ new bearings/ spare
We haven't seen it yet, but it sounds great !
The owner is asking $2700
Any comments on either boat ???
Are the asking prices in line ??
Is either more suitable for small children ??
Thanks
Bill Holstein
Bill Campbell
>From: Bill.H...@bbs.mhv.net (Bill Holstein)
>Subject: Advice: Catalina 22' or SanJuan 21'
>Date: 26 Jul 1995 01:31:19 GMT
>Catalina 22' or San Juan 21'
>My wife and I are faced with a most difficult problem.
>We have agreed to purchase a small sail boat this summer,
>however not having much experience with what is available,
>we can't make an educated decision.
>Any comments on either boat ???
>Are the asking prices in line ??
>Is either more suitable for small children ??
>Thanks
>Bill Holstein
I've never owned or sailed either one, but I am an inveterate boat shopper and
have looked at several C-22's and (hard) at one SJ. So here's my looker's
opinion: The Catalina will hold its value better--it was named the trailer
sailor of the decade by Sail Magazine, I believe--, is somewhat heavier, a
little roomier inside, and more comfortable. The San Juan is lighter and
probably faster, but is probably much more spartan. The one I looked at had
no inner liner and was very wet, lots of leaks from through-deck fittings.
Also the cockpit was not very comfortable to sit in. The Catalina looks good,
the San Juan is, well, I think it's ugly. (My apologies to any San Juan
owners out there.) At best it looks like an odd, outmoded boat, while the
Catalina still looks main-stream if not exactly beautiful. Given those
choices, I'd go with the Catalina.
Bill Campbell
Jack
>
>Catalina 22' or San Juan 21'
>
>My wife and I are faced with a most difficult problem.
>We have agreed to purchase a small sail boat this summer,
>however not having much experience with what is available,
>we can't make an educated decision.
>
>1972 Catalina 22'. It was set up as follows:
>
> 22' Catalina w swing keel, kick-up rudder, & pop-top (mint)
The swing keel is an advantage only if you plan to dry dock the boat and
travel often. If you have a wet slip on the body of water where you will
do most if not all of your sailing, the swing keel is a disadvantage.
> Bimini and pop-top cover (fair)
> Main and working jib ( two small holes in main)
Check the cost of a new main.
> Slide away sink/cooler/stove
> Compass/Depth/wind speed/knot log
> Two batteries
> 8 Hp Honda O.B - 4-cycle/altenator
Where would the motor be stored? Do you really need a motor this large
and would it be be difficult to manage?
> 2-axle trailer (rusty, no brakes)
>
> The owner is asking $4500. Resonable ?????
>
>We have also seen an add for a 1972 San Juan 21'
> Main/Genoa/Spinnaker/jib
> Autohelm ST-50 speed/distance/depth/timer/compass
> 4.5 H.P. Evinrude Deluxe
> sink/stove
> Fleet captain trailer/ new bearings/ spare
>
> We haven't seen it yet, but it sounds great !
> The owner is asking $2700
>
>Any comments on either boat ???
>Are the asking prices in line ??
I assume that you have checked on prices in your local and are able to
determine if the prices are comparable to other boats of the same general
length and model. The bigger question is the condition of the fiberglass,
keel, gel coat, rigging and motors.
>Is either more suitable for small children ??
The sailing ability and temperment of the children's parents have more
impact on suitability than the boat.
>
Happy hunting !
Bill Lee
Catalina 25
--
---
Bill Lee <wiz...@vdbs.com> http://www.vdbs.com/~wizard
JRYares
Best of the three boats I've owned. $4,500 sounds high for a '74. The
market is huge so you shouldn't have trouble gauging what the going price
is.
Call Catalina in southern CA (area code 818). Get a copy of their owners
magazine "Mainsheet." Frank Butler, the designer, actually answered the
phone one time when I called. The maket for used C-22s is huge, there are
tons of add-on products and lots of great owners groups and fleets.
The only maintenance problem (as Bill Lee noted) is the hinge bolt on the
swing keel. It works back and forth and enlarges the hole in the keel.
Then the board bumps around and makes noise instead of locking firmly
down. Not hard to deal with. The swing keel is definitely worth it the
first time you run aground.
We added a pop-top canvass/screen enclsoure, a spinnaker, and a 6HP
outboard. We sailed all over the northern Gulf of Mexico.
Good Choice!
Paul Frymier
banging centerboard. The poster of reply said that this problem was
"easy to deal with". Is that "easy to fix" or "easy to live with"?
Also, is it not too difficult to get the keel off? I'd like to take a
look at the wear. Any advice is appreciated.
Paul Frymier
Department of Chemical Engineering
419 Dougherty Engineering Building
University of Tennessee
Knoxville, TN 37996-2200
email: pd...@virginia.edu
WWW: http://curie.che.virginia.edu/people/pdf.html
John Miller x4314 1K-315 (nq8230700)
banged around badly as well. Today, after repairs, there is no noise
at all. I don't think that it is good for the boat to have it's keel
flopping around underneath it that way, might damage the keel trunk
As an additional benefit, I find I can point higher with the repaired
keel too. Repair procedure follows:
Assumptions: -that the boat is on a trailer as is usually the case.
Also, you have a sling that allows you to completely lift the boat
off of the trailer.
Build a brace that will hold the keel in an upright position once
the boat is lifted away from it. Install this bracing on the trailer.
You don't want the keel to flop over once you lift the boat off of the
trailer. Besides, you will need this bracing to hold the keel in
position when you resinstall it on the boat.
Unbolt the keel from the bottom of the boat -- four bolts, two brackets.
Raise the boat off of the trailer high enough so it clears the
top of the keel (keel has a hump on top and sticks up inside
the trunk when in the retracted position).
Disconnect the keel cable from the keel (a pin).
Note that the keel is still in the vertical position because your
temp bracing is holding it up (better be)!
Roll the trailer which is supporting the keel out from under the
boat.
Remove the keel from the trailer to work on -- don't try to lift it
off by hand. It is very heavy and will just hurt you. Get a lot of
beefy help or get some lifting equipment.
Inspect the keel hole and the pin. The center of the pin will probably
be worn out, the ends will probably be OK. See how the end of the
pin fits the hole in the keel. If there is a lot of slop (greater
than .050") then you will need to ream out the hole in the keel
and fit it with a sleeve. If it fits OK, then just replace the pin
(available from the Catalina factory).
To sleeve the keel, take it to a machine shop and have them ream the
hole out to a size large enough to accept a sleeve. Then, have them
make up a SS sleeve for it. It should be sized for a press fit if
possible. Make sure the inside diameter of the sleeve fits the NEW
pin correctly (no more than .050" slop -- .020" is better). I suggest
getting your new pin before you take the keel to a machine shop so
you can be sure it all fits correctly.
Reinstall the keel -- reverse from above. Coat the 4 keel bolts with
the blue (not red) thread lock stuff so they won't vibrate out when
trailering.
Mine worked out real well -- although -- I think the keel is not
exactly centered right. I think it's a little off. The boat performs
better on a port tack than a starboard tack. That's the only difference
I can think of that would account for that behavior. The tail end
of the keel rubs against the starboard side of the trunk when the
keel is retracted. It's not a big deal -- just kinda pecular.
Good Luck,
John Miller
Catalina 22 #4909 "Tinker Toy"
--
John R. Miller
cbsignal!jrm
Bill Quigley
Paul Frymier <pd...@virginia.edu> wrote:
>I have a '76 Cat 22 with the swing keel. I have the problem of the
>banging centerboard. The poster of reply said that this problem was
>"easy to deal with". Is that "easy to fix" or "easy to live with"?
>Also, is it not too difficult to get the keel off? I'd like to take a
>look at the wear. Any advice is appreciated.
My keel was extremely rusty, so when I had the boat in the yard a few
months ago for a bottom job, I had them remove the keel and fix it up:
sandblasting, coating with stuff called something like vinylplast,
and repainting. It took several hours to get the keel off, even with
the help of a forklift. The guys at the yard thought it weighed
about 700 pounds. Total cost was about $450, but it looks like new
and before it looked as if it was about to fall off or disintegrate.
There are only four bolts holding the keel hinge on the boat, and
one of mine was loose, so it's probably worth looking into.
I don't have the banging problem, but I lock the keel down with the
bolt in the forward storage compartment. Maybe not all models
have this bolt? Mine is an '83.
Bill Quigley
Joe Campbell
>
> I have a 1976 Catalina 22 as well. When I got the boat, my keel
>banged around badly as well. Today, after repairs, there is no noise
>at all. I don't think that it is good for the boat to have it's keel
>flopping around underneath it that way, might damage the keel trunk
>As an additional benefit, I find I can point higher with the repaired
>keel too. Repair procedure follows:
>
> Inspect the keel hole and the pin. The center of the pin will
probably
> be worn out, the ends will probably be OK. See how the end of the
> pin fits the hole in the keel. If there is a lot of slop (greater
> than .050") then you will need to ream out the hole in the keel
> and fit it with a sleeve. If it fits OK, then just replace the pin
> (available from the Catalina factory).
>
> To sleeve the keel, take it to a machine shop and have them ream
the
I had the same problem and rather than use a sleeve, we welded material
back into the hole and re-reamed. I had a new pin made rather than rely on
the Catalina parts department. Cost $30 (for the pin).
>
Joe Campbell
C22 #9702
"Perfectly Adequate"
Brian Smith
is what I found sailing on lakes (i.e., lots of wind but no large waves).
Friend had a SJ21 and I had a Clipper Marine 21. This year I have a
Catalina 22. SJ is light and heels very quickly. CM 21 was heavier,
did not heel quite as much but needs to be reefed before the C22.
C22 is only 3 inches longer than the CM 21 but is much larger in all other
dimensions and is much heavier (2600 lbs v. 1750). My wife loves it because
it has sitting room, as opposed to crouching room. It is much more sedate
to sail, even in reefing winds and I confess to some disappointment because
it just seems to have very little feel compared to the C 21. (I am used to
sailing much larger boats that have much more feel.) The C 21 had that
squirly feeling of a dinghy when things were getting exciting--nothing like
my old Fireball, of course, but it was recognizable. The Cat 22 does
not have that. On the C22 I can lash the tiller and go and do other jobs
and it just keeps on course--it's almost weird how it will hold a course.
Last weekend I was sailing with just the genoa and decided to raise the
main (my wife was asleep below). I was on a closed reach. I lashed the
tiller, raised the main, put a reef in, and the boat was still on the same
course.
There are not any other C22 sailors close to me so I have been unable
to talk about this with any experienced C22ers.
Assuming you don't need the extra room, I think you will find the SJ 21
more "fun". If you are trailering, you will be able to rig and launch
it more quickly and easily, too. I could easily rig the CM 21 mast by
myself without needing any sort of tackle on the forestay--can't do that
with the C22 and it takes about twice as long to rig and launch (of course,
neither am I as young as I used to be :-). We tend to spend several days
on the boat at a time, which was why we went to the larger, but still
trailerable, boat. The SJ would be OK for an occasional overnighter.
Have fun
B.S!
Steve Weingart
j...@seaweed.cb.att.com (John Miller x4314 1K-315 (nq8230700)) wrote:
Good instructions deleted....
Note that the Santana 21' that I had came with different recomendations for
preventing keel banging. The goal there was to shim the keel slot with
angle iron inserted from the bottom and attached to the bottom of the CB
bracket. You used/trimmed material to get minimum clearance between the
board and the sides of the metal slot. The job could be done on the trailer,
a *big* advantage.
> Mine worked out real well -- although -- I think the keel is not
> exactly centered right. I think it's a little off. The boat performs
> better on a port tack than a starboard tack. That's the only
difference
> I can think of that would account for that behavior. The tail end
> of the keel rubs against the starboard side of the trunk when the
> keel is retracted. It's not a big deal -- just kinda pecular.
You should check your rig tuning as well, if one side is tighter or the mast
leans ever so slightly one way, you can get the same effect. If it is from
the keel, you might be able to tune most of it out, or balance it for even
pointing ;-)
Cheers,
Steve
George R. Burns
you plan on some overnights, you definitely want the pop-top w/dodger.
Gives you about 5' 9" of head room. Make sure you do a thorough
inspection of the swing keel, to include play between the trunion and
the keel hole, keel cable, and cable-to-keel attachment.
Interestingly, I called Catalina about play in the keel, and they
weren't too concerned about it. They recomended the installation of an
available keel shim kit, (approx $18), to stop play in the keel.
George Burns
Tacoma, WA
C22 #8417 DeeBeeGeeBee
Martin Perry
The Garmin only has a NMEA data output, this is fine and I can connect it
to my PC and other instruments and get position information. But what I
want to do is to upload waypoint TO the Garmin from my PC. Problem the
Garmin does not support NMEA input.
I know PC software has been written to provide conversion and upload to
Garmin, can anyone point me in the right direction.
Thanks
Martin Perry
Westerly Fulmar Owner
UK
Michael B. Laing
Martin Perry <mar...@astonsci.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>Can anyone help me with my Garmin GPS
>
>The Garmin only has a NMEA data output, this is fine and I can connect it
>to my PC and other instruments and get position information. But what I
>want to do is to upload waypoint TO the Garmin from my PC. Problem the
>Garmin does not support NMEA input.
You didn't mention what model Garmin you are using, but my 45 has quite a
number of different protocals that it uses. I found software for the
Garmin at
FTP://sundae.triumf.ca/pub/peter/index.html
Give it a try. I think anonymous FTP would get there as well.
Mike Laing
S/V Pathfinder
Valiant 40, #171
Don Wolf
says...
>
>Can anyone help me with my Garmin GPS
>
>The Garmin only has a NMEA data output, this is fine and I can connect it
>to my PC and other instruments and get position information. But what I
>want to do is to upload waypoint TO the Garmin from my PC. Problem the
>Garmin does not support NMEA input.
>
>Garmin, can anyone point me in the right direction.
>
>Thanks
>
>Martin Perry
>Westerly Fulmar Owner
>UK
>
here for a long time. The hardware (connection line and board) are
installed correctly, I am relatively sure, and I have uploaded all the
waypoints from my Garmin 75 to my PC. After doing that I hit a wall. Maybe
I'm slow, but the documentation is very abstruse. Several days ago I just
had to put the effort aside, since it wasn't coming easily. I put the
manual by my bedside for reading when I fall asleep. Well . . . that's
been good for about 22 seconds of reading. (Deadly. Ususally I can stay
with a tech manual for 1/2 an hour or so at night).
Well, I assume I'll get it one day. Maybe tomorrow.
In the meantime, to answer your question: I bought mine from Boat/US,
special order line. Or you can order directly from Garmin at
1-913-599-1515. I think they have an 800 number but it's not in the
manual (wouldn't you know.) Cost was about US$125 as I remember. There
must be a closer source for you in the UK.
I'm looking forward to using it. That's why I got it. ???? Good luck.
Don Wolf
Ridgeg
uploading/downloading waypoints and routes to/from my Garmin 75. The
package was around $130 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately the docs
and all are on the boat and I am at the office. Try giving Defender a
call. They were able to track down what I wanted given sketchy info.
Program also offers real time plotting and many other features. DOS based
but looks like windows.