Vented loop/macerator installation
K2
I asume that you will see this message. I am a little worried about
trying to clarify your response after viewing the responses tacked
onto my initial post.
If you would please review my configuration from my initial post. This
boat (since 1980) has always been configured: head to vented loop to y
valve directional to either holding tank or thru hull. The vented loop
is well above the water line, I have never had to close the thru hull
when sailing (with the y valve directed toilet/thru hull). I
understand that the vented loop is not necessary between the head and
holding tank, but it certainly does no damage, and the plumbing is
already in place.. To do what you recommend requires quite a lot of re-
routing and a heck of a lot of labor. Why would I lower the vented
loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with
the thru hull closed? I simply believe that injecting the macerator
discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball
valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head
when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than
anything else.
Wilbur Hubbard
"K2" <moon...@att.net> wrote in message
news:1174526193.2...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the
heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries.
First off she said she gave you the wrong advice or you misunderstood
what she told you. NEVER put the vented loop below the water line. That
defeats the purpose entirely. Instead of air going in to break the
siphon water would come out of the bowl to flood the boat.
The vented loop is there only to break the siphon for the intake water
for the head. Nothing else. It should have nothing to do with the
discharge loop or valves.
The macerator discharge should be directed into the holding tank via the
Y- valve or out the thru hull via the same Y valve. Always keep the Y
valve locked to the holding tank position in no discharge zones. A ball
valve on the pumpout might be a good idea provided it is placed close to
the holding tank. It serves to limit odors in the plumbing from tank to
pumpout fitting. A good way to flush out your holding tank is while it
is being pumped out open the Y valve to the thru hull and this will draw
raw water through the system. If you pay for a pump out let it pump for
several minutes after you think the holding tank contents are outta
there. A good flush makes the whole system sweeter. So what if it taxes
the pump out station. The more breakdowns pump out stations have the
better because then we can claim we have no choice but to poop in a
bucket and empty it directly overboard.
Wilbur Hubbard
K2
wrote:
> "K2" <moonk...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for your response, but the vented loop is not for "intake".
Intake is supplied via 1" hose from a sea chest. As stated, output is
from toilet to vented loop to Y valve directing to either holding tank
or thru hull. I am trying to add a macerator pump from the holding
tank overboard. My question concerned where & how to dicect the
macerator pump 1" discharge.
Flemming Torp
"K2" <moon...@att.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1174530007.1...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 21, 9:37 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" <wilburhubb...@thefarm.invallid>
> wrote:
>> "K2" <moonk...@att.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1174526193.2...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries.
>>
I think this group would like to get a confirmation and an answer
directly from Peggie ...
This smells like trolling ...
I cannot imagine Peggie would ask WH for any help whatsoever ...
--
Flemming Torp
Gimle/DEN-61
Roger Long
"Flemming Torp" <fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark> wrote in message
news:460274ac$0$927$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
Wilbur Hubbard
>
> Thanks for your response, but the vented loop is not for "intake".
> Intake is supplied via 1" hose from a sea chest. As stated, output is
> from toilet to vented loop to Y valve directing to either holding tank
> or thru hull. I am trying to add a macerator pump from the holding
> tank overboard. My question concerned where & how to dicect the
> macerator pump 1" discharge.
>
Why in the world would you wish to macerate as you pumped overboard? The
ocean doesn't care how lumpy the product may be. Maceration doesn't kill
bacteria all it does is grind up the sewage into small pieces.
You should get a West Marine catalog and look at the pictures. They have
a couple illustrations of waste systems. The macerator pump is to be
placed on the head discharge tail piece or close to it. You grind up the
product before it goes overboard or into the holding tank. No vented
loop is required or called for on the discharge side of the head. What
on Earth would be the use of a vented loop on the discharge? In a proper
holding tank installation the product enters at the top of the tank and
the tank is vented so there's your vented loop right there. Putting in
another would be redundant.
Wilbur Hubbard
Peggie Hall
> Why would I lower the vented
> loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with
> the thru hull closed?
I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other
side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too.
> I simply believe that injecting the macerator
> discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball
> valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head
> when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than
> anything else.
That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer
than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position
when the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough
to make a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap
out the y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then
all you have to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line
between 'em. Which would eliminate the need for any ball valve.
But it's your boat...
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&cat=1304
Peggie Hall
Detectives" series! The Titanic last year...last night I saw you
explaining what caused a WWII minesweeper to sink off Pelau (sp?) in the
Pacific.
Jonathan Ganz
You smelled right. He's a long-time troll called NEal Warren. Bragged
about using a cedar bucket dumped over the side in a marina for years.
--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com
Gordon Wedman
"Peggie Hall" <peg...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:JzwMh.8504$JZ3....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> K2 wrote:
>> Why would I lower the vented
>> loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with
>> the thru hull closed?
>
> I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other
> side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too.
>
>> I simply believe that injecting the macerator
>> discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball
>> valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head
>> when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than
>> anything else.
>
> That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer
> than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position when
> the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough to make
> a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap out the
> y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then all you have
> to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line between 'em. Which
> would eliminate the need for any ball valve.
>
> But it's your boat...
>
>
> --
> Peggie
This is how I plan to run my hoses:
-toilet to Y-valve
-Y-valve outlets directly to tank and to thru hull via vented loop
-line from second tank pickup to macerator
-macerator discharge into T which is in the line between the Y-valve and
vented loop
When you use the macerator the Y-valve will prevent backflow into the
toilet.
With the Y-valve connecting toilet to thru hull I suppose you might pump
some liquid back into the macerator discharge line but this is a pretty high
resistance path compared to going out a 1 1/2 inch hose and thru hull.
Wayne.B
wrote:
>This is how I plan to run my hoses:
>-toilet to Y-valve
>-Y-valve outlets directly to tank and to thru hull via vented loop
>-line from second tank pickup to macerator
>-macerator discharge into T which is in the line between the Y-valve and
>vented loop
>
>When you use the macerator the Y-valve will prevent backflow into the
>toilet.
My old boat was like that and it worked fine. The macerator pump was
used to empty the holding tank when off shore.
K2
> "Peggie Hall" <pegh...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gordon,
I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop
at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge.
Swapping the two makes no sense for me. I plan to use the macerator
pump to empty the holding tank as well. Someone needs to re-read the
West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about!
K2
The vented loop is behind the toilet, up at deck level. The y valve is
in the bilge 10" away from the thru hull. I simply do not understand
how you propose to "simply swap" a 3 connection y valve with a 2
connection vented loop (leaving existing hoses in place). I envisioned
dumping the holding tank using the macerator out at sea as a manual/
closely monitored operation - opening and closing valves for the
couple of minutes that it would take a 12GPM pump to empty a 35 gallon
tank. I guess you are correct concerning "blowing a connection"!
Yes, it's my boat, but I was simply asking for input.
Thanks for your time.
Peggie Hall
> I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop
> at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge.
> Swapping the two makes no sense for me.
Who said anything about swapping a vented loop with a thru-hull???
What is so difficult about rearranging a couple of hoses so that the
hose the hose from the toilet goes to the y-valve instead of to the
vented loop and the hose leading up to the vented loop comes out of one
side of the y-valve instead of directly from the toilet?
> I plan to use the macerator
> pump to empty the holding tank as well.
"As well?"" What else do you plan to use it for?
> Someone needs to re-read the
> West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about!
Their drawings:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/sanitationsystem.htm
don't include ANY vented loops, so they're not much help in determining
whether it belongs before or after a y-valve.
Peggie Hall
> The vented loop is behind the toilet, up at deck level. The y valve is
> in the bilge 10" away from the thru hull.
Ok...NOW I get it. The y-valve isn't in the head where it belongs (and
where I thought it was).
Suggesting that you put it there is prob'ly a waste of time, but it
would sure solve a lot of problems....and also make it much easier to
switch between overboard and tank.
There is a Plan B that would eliminate the need for a loop or a valve
between the macerator and the thru-hull: put the macerator above the top
of the tank...or at least far enough above the waterline to keep sea
water out of the tank. It wouldn't be a vented loop, but it would
effectively create a loop that would do everything but break a siphon,
which would be unlikely. Macerators can be oriented in any direction,
even upside down, so you'd only need a surface on which to bolt it in place.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&cat=1304
K2
> K2 wrote:
> > I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop
> > at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge.
> > Swapping the two makes no sense for me.
>
> Who said anything about swapping a vented loop with a thru-hull???
>
> What is so difficult about rearranging a couple of hoses so that the
> hose the hose from the toilet goes to the y-valve instead of to the
> vented loop and the hose leading up to the vented loop comes out of one
> side of the y-valve instead of directly from the toilet?
>
> > I plan to use the macerator
> > pump to empty the holding tank as well.
>
> "As well?"" What else do you plan to use it for?
>
> > Someone needs to re-read the
> > West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about!
>
> Their drawings:
>
>
> don't include ANY vented loops, so they're not much help in determining
> whether it belongs before or after a y-valve.
>
> --
> Peggie
> ----------
> Peggie Hall
> Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
> Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Peggie,
My comments were directed ti Gordon/ "As well refers to the two of us
with the same application. Please re-read my comment. Where did you
get the idea that I was spealing of replacing a thru hull with a
vented loop? My y valve is located 10" away from the thru hull in the
bilge. Here we go again.
K2
>
> - Show quoted text -
My comments about the West catalog were not directed to you.(sorry for
my grammar above. It's early. "spealing" should be "speaking".
I now see your "now I get it" response. Your plan B senario makes
sense if I can get the height on the macerator pump.Gotta look at
that.