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I/O Winterizing Checklist

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Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Self-winterizing is not for everyone. I enjoy the work and the
process allows a better understand the machinery I occasionally
depend on in remote areas. Professional winterizing service can
be had for around $120 in most areas and that's not bad, or a bad
way to go. I am sure my method deletes some items the pros
include and includes items they omit. My method does allow winter
boating and the cost of re-winterizing is about 5 bucks & 15
minutes. The following methods work for me. Hope there is
something in them for you.

1- Clean & wax hull thoroughly

2- Fill gas tanks, and then add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to tanks.
Follow directions on Sta-Bil container. Yes, Wal-Mart carries
it.

3- Lower unit service:

A- Carefully inspect lower unit and prop for any damage:

1- Most prop damage is repairable. (take to prop shop for
repair if needed)

2- Cosmetic repair to skeg can be accomplished by using Grey
MarineTex ($6) or Aluminox ($6), and spray cans of primer &
paint from your local boat dealer (under $10 each).

The process is:
a- Sand by hand with medium grit paper to primer around nicks
using sanding block.
b- Clean surface.
c- Apply filler with ice cream stick & let dry overnight.
d- File and then sand with medium and fine sandpaper (wet or
dry) using sanding block.
e- Spray EOM primer per instructions on can & let dry.
f- Very light sanding to knock off any high spots, then clean
g- Spray EOM paint (light quick taps, always moving, very
light coverage) & let dry.
h- Very, very light sanding. Then clean
i- Spray light finish coat of EOM paint & let dry.

B- OEM lower unit oil change:

Purchase lower unit oil change kit (Wal-Mart, dealer, etc) &
follow included instructions. Dave Brown has an excellent
description of this process in his post 'The Winterizer Post'.

Remove prop if theft problem.

Every other year have dealer pull, inspect, relube, service, and
apply new seals. While you could do this, it's inexpensive
insurance against future problems and obtains a good second
opinion about the health of the drive.


3- Oil change & filter:

A- Warm engine to normal operating temperature using lower unit
earmuffs. Water flow from hose should be very low, as medium
flow will not allow engine to reach needed temperatures. Make
sure you do have some flow at all times. This 'flow check'
can be accomplished by using the Camco winterizing kit in pass
through mode.

B- When normal engine operating temperature is indicated on
temperature gauge, stop engine & water flow. Remove dipstick
and use manual or electric pump to extract oil into a safe
container. Take extra care to insure thin and hard dipstick
pump tube reaches the bottom of engine. Both manual & drill
motor pump kits can be found at most Wal-marts & dealers for
around $10. More expensive pump systems can easily be found,
but if patience and care are utilized, the inexpensive ones
will do just as good a job. Suggest taking old oil to service
station for disposal.

C- Remove old oil filter by putting H/D plastic garbage bag over
filter and another plastic trash sack under filter and spread
out to catch drips. Removing old filter with oil filter
wrench. Place old filter & bag in a safe place out of the
way. Then apply a thin coat of oil to new filter seal, wipe
filter fitting clean, and hand tighten new filter. Do not
overtighten.

D- Replace EOM engine oil using funnel (usually 5 or 6 quarts).
Use dipstick to verify fill level.

This is a good time to check tilt & trim reservoir, belts, hoses,
oil leaks, loose fittings or parts, & the overall cleanliness of
engine compartment. If something looks suspicious, repair or
replace it. Keep that engine compartment sparkling.

4- Freeze protecting engine:

Hoses become harder and more brittle with age. Disconnect and
reconnecting old hoses becomes very problematic when winterizing,
especially for older boats. For this reason, I use the Camco
winterizing kit available from most boat supply catalogs costing
about $30. The Camco kit really simplifies freeze protection of
the engine, and to my knowledge has never failed to fully protect
an engine when diligent care was taken with its usage. The Camco
kit uses 5 gallons of antifreeze. I use .99 cent RV antifreeze
available everywhere and have never had a problem. Total
recurring cost to freeze protect engine is about 5 bucks and less
than 15 minutes including warm-up time.

The procedure:

A- Pull flame arrester from carburetor. Re-warm engine to normal
operating temperature using antifreeze FILLED Camco container
sitting on swim platform or gunwale in bypass mode. Intake of
container is connected to water source and the output goes to
leg earmuffs. Hose pressure should be quite low to allow
engine to reach normal operating temperature. Continually
monitor the clear tubes that come with the Camco kit to insure
water is flowing to the engine and has not been stopped by a
faulty tap. Err on the side of caution when deciding when
proper temperature has been reached, the thermostat MUST be
open. When temperature gauge indicates normal engine
operating temperature and you are convinced that the
thermostat is open, turn the Camco bypass knob to shut off
water and allow antifreeze to drain to engine. Use the entire
5 Gallons. When you get down to the last gallon of
antifreeze start spraying the can of engine fogging oil into
carburetor intake. Try to keep engine RPM steady. Shut down
engine when Camco container is empty. You're engine is now
freeze protected.


5- Plumbing & Air Conditioning Systems:

These must be freeze protected. The procedure varies from boat to
boat and has been fully described in posts from Dave Brown, Peggy
Hall, and others in this forum. I would defer to the experts here.

6- Battery and cold sensitive boat items. Last step in winterizing
is removal of any cold sensitive items stored on the boat and
removal of the batteries. Best place for stored batteries is
heated indoor area where an occasional booster charge would be
convenient.

7- Storage tips:

A- Block trailer if temperatures reach freezing.
B- Winter store with leg down.
C- Use plastic trash bag with tie to protect lower unit.
D- Get good boat cover - annual purchase of cheap plastic tarps are
not cost effective.
E- Heated indoor boat storage is best during winter months. Don't
rule out non-traditional means such as farmers with large barns
or unused manufacturing facilities with adequate security
protection.
F- Protect that boat against entry of pests. Seal hull openings

--
Skipper

Marshfield Mass.

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Steps 4 and 5 sound pretty scary to me Skipper. If I followed those
guidelines, I'd have many sleepless nights during hard freezes.

--
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services
Skipper wrote in message <3613F4AC...@dtc.net>...

Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:
>
> Steps 4 and 5 sound pretty scary to me Skipper. If I followed those
> guidelines, I'd have many sleepless nights during hard freezes.

No a real problem. In fact many professionals use the 'bucket method'
which is functionally equivalent. My research showed no case of freeze
damage with this method. Perhaps your search will fair better?

BTW, I did understand your original request would not be met with a
thank you. Just felt the information was important enough to post
inspite of your expective negative comments.

--
Skipper

Garry Heon

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Skipper wrote:

Nice imformative post, glad to see it Skip. I do have one question though,
would it not make more sense to dump the Sta-Bil in just before you fuel up?
This would allow the Sta-Bil to mix with the gas while the tank is filled.
You have to remember that most tanks have some kind of slosh protection
built in so the Sta-Bil may not mix while you trailer the boat home, or
run the boat home in my case. I've also used Sta-Bil brand for the last
20 years in every winterize/summerize job. I've never had a gummed carb,
great stuff.

> 2- Fill gas tanks, and then add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to tanks.
> Follow directions on Sta-Bil container. Yes, Wal-Mart carries
> it.
>

> C- Use plastic trash bag with tie to protect lower unit.

This I disagree with, maybe. Every time I've seen something wrapped
in plastic it rusts/rots. I most cases the plastic just traps in moisture.
Now for the maybe, most drives sit in the water for 6 - 8 months a year
anyway so would the moisture be a problem.


Garry Heon

Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Garry Heon wrote:

> Nice imformative post, glad to see it Skip. I do have one question
> though, would it not make more sense to dump the Sta-Bil in just
> before you fuel up? This would allow the Sta-Bil to mix with the gas
> while the tank is filled. You have to remember that most tanks have
> some kind of slosh protection built in so the Sta-Bil may not mix
> while you trailer the boat home, or run the boat home in my case.
> I've also used Sta-Bil brand for the last 20 years in every
> winterize/summerize job. I've never had a gummed carb, great stuff.

Thanks for the tip!!! It really does makes sense.

> > C- Use plastic trash bag with tie to protect lower unit.

> This I disagree with, maybe. Every time I've seen something wrapped
> in plastic it rusts/rots. I most cases the plastic just traps in
> moisture.

> Now for the maybe, most drives sit in the water for 6 - 8 months a
> year anyway so would the moisture be a problem.

Forgot to include that bag should have a 1/2" hole cut in its bottom
corner for moisture (rain, snow, condensation) drainage. This was
covered in a NG thread a couple years ago. I've had nothing but positive
experiences with this method. However, can't fault your caution.

--
Skipper

Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> Just for you Skipper,...

> Thank you, Skipper. Your post was most informative.



> --
> Jim Clark
> Custom Yacht Services

As was yours. I can only hope you work hard to put together an
informative post in the future for flamers to devour. Your a class act!

--
Skipper

Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> Just for you Skipper,

> Thank you, Skipper. Your post was most informative.

As was your webpage:

"Custom Yacht Service"

"Have tools will travel"

"Don't be left out in the cold. Schedule winterizing services NOW!"

"Since 1988 Jim Clark ( DBA Custom Yacht Services) has been dedicated to
providing the best possible repair and maintenance service to boaters on
the South Shore of Boston. My philosophy is simple. Make proper repairs.
Do them quickly, and at a fair price. I specialize in Mercruiser engine
and stern drive repairs, but, work on other makes as well. I do
electrical, electronic, sanitation system, and hardware installations. I
am not equipped to service outboards.

Protecting turf, huh? Business must be bad.

--
Skipper

Skipper

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Oct 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/1/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> What kind of antifreeze can you buy for 99 cents? windshield wiper
> antifreeze?

You are correct. The last RV antifreeze I used was 3 bucks a gallon.
three times five gallons is $15 bucks. Sorry for the error.

That said, I would be interested in what you charge to winterize? Please
advise where your services differ from the listed items in my post.
...And, have you found a case of engine damage from the bucket method?

--
Skipper

Marshfield Mass.

unread,
Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Just for you Skipper,
Here are my concerns,
1. You are afraid to remove hoses because they are hard and brittle.
Don't you think it might be a good idea to replace said hoses?
2. What kind of antifreeze can you buy for 99 cents? windshield
wiper antifreeze?
3. How can you be sure running 5 gallons of antifreeze up the water
pickup will displace any or all the water in the engine? I suspect
most of it will just go out the exhaust without even entering the
engine, even with the thermostat fully open.
4. With just 1 gallon of water left in the jug, that doesn't leave
much time to properly fog the engine before your 99 cent anti freeze
runs out.
5. Many professionals use the bucket or Camco method? Well, many
professionals prefer to use more certain methods and better products
to freeze protect and corrosion protect raw water cooled engines.
6. Thank you, Skipper. Your post was most informative.

--
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services

Skipper wrote in message <361412D7...@dtc.net>...


>Marshfield Mass. wrote:
>>
>> Steps 4 and 5 sound pretty scary to me Skipper. If I followed
those
>> guidelines, I'd have many sleepless nights during hard freezes.
>

Bad Penny

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
I pull the plugs on my 302's and squirt transmission fluid - a couple
of squirts in each spark plug hole. Once I hit all 8 with the "clean"
oil I turn the starter for a few rotations. This allows the intake
water pumps to clear while circulating the oil. The transmission
fluid keeps the cylinders damp with clean oil during the winter which
deters rust or just dry metal. I have nearly 2,000 hours on the
engines and they start the minute I hit the key. Clearly this isn't
the entire secret, but I believe it has attributed to the life.

Richard Eriksson

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Skipper wrote:
>
> Marshfield Mass. wrote:
>
> > Just for you Skipper,...

>
> > Thank you, Skipper. Your post was most informative.
>
> > --
> > Jim Clark
> > Custom Yacht Services
>
> As was yours. I can only hope you work hard to put together an
> informative post in the future for flamers to devour. Your a class act!
>
> --
> Skipper

Skipper, your post contained many common sense items to address, but
the method you describe for putting anti-freeze in the engine block
would leave me pretty nervous also. Considering the investment I have
made in my boats, I think having them professionally winterized is a
small price to pay for peace of mind. Experimenting as a backyard
mechanic can be an expensive education.

Dick Eriksson

Marshfield Mass.

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to

Please bring your boat to me. I would then be happy to quote you a
price to winterize your boat and replace rotted hoses and whatever
else you need. Please reply by email.

--
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services
Skipper wrote in message <36143B81...@dtc.net>...

Terry

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Nice post, thanks! I think the responses will be easily separated by those
with mechanical ability and those without. Those without probably should
stay away form doing their own work anyway. Those with will understand the
logic behind what you are recommending and be able to deal with any minor
differences based on model or type.

I have been boating for about 30 years with many different types of boats in
many different climates (read I move a lot). I have always done my own work
and never had a bad experience. In fact I have seen just the opposite where
friends have had their service done professionally (that only implies they
paid someone to do it) and had problems. Not that this is the norm (I'm not
picking on professional service folks) but you do want to deal with someone
reputable. In the DC/MD/VA area there are mobile winterizing companies that
come to you to do the work who may or may not do a good job. Some are fly by
night out for a fast buck. Even if you don't do your own work, use Skipper
and Dave's routines as a guide for what your professional should do. Be
careful!

A couple of other comments on things I have always done in winterizing. One
is to spray down all metal parts in the engine compartment, including the
engine, with a protectant like WD40 (the non-flammable version is
preferred). I also spray all electrical connections and ignition wires with
a spray waterproofing (available from many auto and marine parts sources
including Mercruiser). Purely preventative maintenance. I didn't notice
any mention of lubing all grease fittings in the process. Another important
step. Finally, ventilation... Since my boat stays under a cover, I open all
the hatches and compartments to allow everything to breath. I pull the
drain plug (obviously land stored) and leave it out but put a little wad of
coarse steel wool in the home to prevent rodent entry. You would be amazed
at how small a hole a mouse can get through and how much damage they can do.

Again, thanks Skipper and Dave for the posting the information!


Skipper wrote in message <3613F4AC...@dtc.net>...

Skipper

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Richard Eriksson wrote:

> Skipper, your post contained many common sense items to address, but
> the method you describe for putting anti-freeze in the engine block
> would leave me pretty nervous also. Considering the investment I have
> made in my boats, I think having them professionally winterized is a
> small price to pay for peace of mind. Experimenting as a backyard
> mechanic can be an expensive education.

Cannot argue with your choice to utilize the skills of professionals at
winterizing time. The 'bucket' method is not for everyone. However,
considering the broad range of characters that call themselves pros,
that course is not without risk.

I do know this; Camco, West Marine, BBB, several marinas, and many
individuals I checked with before adopting this method all said "no
problems or complaints". The chill factor for the area I winterize for
gets as low as -100 degrees in the winter. I have never had a problem
with this method, and it does allow winter boating & remote
winterization BEFORE returning to the frozen north. The process is very
simple. You just fill the container with antifreeze & go. When you've
finished boating, simply pull the boat and find a water tap. Wash down
the hull & trailer. The Camco system flushes raw water as engine gets
to operating temperature and is then replaced by antifreeze. All in
about 15 minutes. Winter boating is great!

Have you ever heard of a real problem or complaint from a user of the
'bucket' method? That is, other than from Rip 'n Dip winterizing
mechanics who view the method as a rice bowl issue? Remember, these are
the guys who poor automotive antifreeze in your engine cooling system
and tell you it's ready to launch in the spring. Ripping hoses and
finding hidden drain plugs IS problematic, even for the pros. Are you
SURE they didn't forget "just one"?

--
Skipper

Skipper

unread,
Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Marshfield Mass wrote:

> Please bring your boat to me. I would then be happy to quote you a
> price to winterize your boat and replace rotted hoses and whatever
> else you need. Please reply by email.

High Mass,

Ah, but your webpage stated "have tools will travel". May I inquire
about your average price for single engine Mercruiser winterization
before telling you where to go?

Your friend,

--
Skipper

Skipper

unread,
Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Terry wrote:
>
> Nice post, thanks! I think the responses will be easily separated by
> those with mechanical ability and those without. Those without
> probably should stay away form doing their own work anyway. Those
> with will understand the logic behind what you are recommending and be
> able to deal with any minor differences based on model or type.
>
> I have been boating for about 30 years with many different types of
> boats in many different climates (read I move a lot). I have always
> done my own work and never had a bad experience. In fact I have seen
> just the opposite where friends have had their service done
> professionally (that only implies they paid someone to do it) and had
> problems...

> A couple of other comments on things I have always done in
> winterizing. One is to spray down all metal parts in the engine
> compartment, including the engine, with a protectant like WD40 (the
> non-flammable version is preferred). I also spray all electrical
> connections and ignition wires with a spray waterproofing (available
> from many auto and marine parts sources including Mercruiser). Purely
> preventative maintenance. I didn't notice any mention of lubing all
> grease fittings in the process. Another important step. Finally,
> ventilation... Since my boat stays under a cover, I open all the
> hatches and compartments to allow everything to breath. I pull the
> drain plug (obviously land stored) and leave it out but put a little
> wad of coarse steel wool in the home to prevent rodent entry. You
> would be amazed at how small a hole a mouse can get through and how
> much damage they can do.

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the thanks! You are so right with your suggestions. I do
the same things when winterizing but forgot to include them in the post.
My 'Checklist' post is incomplete without inclusion of your tips.

--
Skipper

George Jefferson

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
:
:You are correct. The last RV antifreeze I used was 3 bucks a gallon.

:three times five gallons is $15 bucks. Sorry for the error.

pre-mixed anti freeze is not economical if thats what you mean.

I have given up on the rv stuff (propelyne gly) for the engines for
two reasons. If you under-dilute it it is extremely viscous, doesn't
pump well and you risk overheating the engine. If you over-dilute
it it is very hard to tell -- its specific gravity is nearly the same
as water so there is no easy way to test your level of freeze protection.

We use regular automotive antifreeze, carfully catch all the discharge
and as a final step verify the discharge mixture with a sg tester.


--
george jefferson : geo...@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
to reply simply press "r"
-- I hate editing addresses more than I hate the spam!


Dave Brown

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Skipper wrote:

> I do know this; Camco, West Marine, BBB, several marinas, and many
> individuals I checked with before adopting this method all said "no
> problems or complaints". The chill factor for the area I winterize for
> gets as low as -100 degrees in the winter. I have never had a problem
> with this method, and it does allow winter boating & remote

This would be an important time to point out that 'wind chill' is a term
used to describe the effect on human skin in a wind. I'm told (by those
scientific types who know such things) that to an engine block, the actual
temperature is what matters. Where I live, we touch -35 deg C and since I've
got over 100 of these babies stored in my care, I'd better have a high
confidence factor in the method I choose (whatever it is).

> Have you ever heard of a real problem or complaint from a user of the
> 'bucket' method? That is, other than from Rip 'n Dip winterizing
> mechanics who view the method as a rice bowl issue? Remember, these are
> the guys who poor automotive antifreeze in your engine cooling system
> and tell you it's ready to launch in the spring.

Uh oh, we're approaching a line neither of us wants to see you cross.

> Ripping hoses and
> finding hidden drain plugs IS problematic, even for the pros. Are you
> SURE they didn't forget "just one"?

I guarantee it.

--
Regards,

Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/

Dave Brown

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Bad Penny wrote:

Why transmission oil, instead of engine oil? For that matter, why not
storage fogging oil as recommended from all OEM's?

Dave Brown

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Terry wrote:

> A couple of other comments on things I have always done in winterizing. One
> is to spray down all metal parts in the engine compartment, including the
> engine, with a protectant like WD40 (the non-flammable version is
> preferred).

If I might pipe in here, WD-40's prime directive is to displace water (WD =
Water Displacing). A secondary benefit is that it also works as a pentrating
oil. It does a good job for what it was designed to do. It is not, however, a
good choice as a protectant as it evaporates and leaves nothing behind to coat.
(the reason that hinge you sprayed with WD starts squeaking again in short
order).

That being said, there are many parts that will do what you want, but unless
you're in salt water, leave the engine be.

Marshfield Mass.

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Skipper wrote in message <3615067B...@dtc.net>...

>High Mass,
>
>Ah, but your webpage stated "have tools will travel". May I
inquire
>about your average price for single engine Mercruiser winterization
>before telling you where to go?
>
>Your friend,
>
>--
>Skipper

For you, Skipper, a very special price. $3000 + expenses. I can't
wait to find out where you want me to go. :-)) You'll have to email
though, It's filter time, or Miller time, or something like that.

Skipper

unread,
Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
George Jefferson wrote:

> I have given up on the rv stuff (propelyne gly) for the engines for
> two reasons. If you under-dilute it it is extremely viscous, doesn't
> pump well and you risk overheating the engine. If you over-dilute
> it it is very hard to tell -- its specific gravity is nearly the same
> as water so there is no easy way to test your level of freeze
> protection.

> We use regular automotive antifreeze, carfully catch all the discharge
> and as a final step verify the discharge mixture with a sg tester.

I went the other way, using regular antifreeze for many years. Was told
by other boaters whom I respected that RV antifreeze would do the job. I
declined for years thinking the 'real' stuff provided better protection
with its rust preventing additives.

Finally tried the RV stuff and have had no problems with it. The cost
difference is insignificant. If I had doubts about the RV stuff I'd use
the 'real' stuff also.

--
Skipper

Richard Eriksson

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Dave Brown wrote:
>

>
> This would be an important time to point out that 'wind chill' is a term
> used to describe the effect on human skin in a wind. I'm told (by those
> scientific types who know such things) that to an engine block, the actual
> temperature is what matters.

Beat me to it, I was ready to jump on the wind chill thing.
Wind chill is due to the evaporation of water on the skin.
(We sweat even in the winter). Wind increases the evaporation rate.
When water evaporates, it gives off heat (called latent heat of
evaporation) and results in the skin being cooled. There are some
cheap water evaporator "coolers" advertised as air conditioners
that operate on this principle. Anyway, the boat motor is at air
temperature, not wind chill "effective" temperature.

DE

Skipper

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Dave Brown wrote:

> Skipper wrote:

> > Have you ever heard of a real problem or complaint from a user of
> > the 'bucket' method? That is, other than from Rip 'n Dip
> > winterizing mechanics who view the method as a rice bowl issue?

> > Remember, these are the guys who poor automotive antifreeze in your
> > engine cooling system and tell you it's ready to launch in the
> > spring.

> Uh oh, we're approaching a line neither of us wants to see you cross.

Uh oh, you are so right!!! Was not thinking of you when I wrote those
statements. Unfortunately, many of us have had dealings with marine
mechanics who will never quite reach your standards. It ain't a black 'n
white world out there.

Kinda reminds me of the old saw; When you find a good mechanic, treat
him very well indeed.

Sincere appologies!

--
Skipper

Garry Heon

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Skipper wrote:

snip

>
> Finally tried the RV stuff and have had no problems with it. The cost
> difference is insignificant. If I had doubts about the RV stuff I'd use
> the 'real' stuff also.

Around here I find the opposite. I can go down to my local Napa store
and buy some friendly Sierra anitfreeze mix it down with water and get the
same freeze protection as the RV stuff for less $$$.

Garry Heon

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98
to
Big Jim wrote:

> I had a bad experience with "professional" mechanics very early on in
> my driving career and haven't fully trusted one since. I'd rather 'do
> it myself' and know it was really done than take a chance on some
> shop. I learned I can buy a lot of special tols and equipment for what
> the pros charge for labor. At least that's my opinion.

And will you be doing you're own surgery in the future as well? ;-)

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98
to
Skipper wrote:

> > Uh oh, we're approaching a line neither of us wants to see you cross.
>
> Uh oh, you are so right!!! Was not thinking of you when I wrote those
> statements. Unfortunately, many of us have had dealings with marine
> mechanics who will never quite reach your standards. It ain't a black 'n
> white world out there.
> Kinda reminds me of the old saw; When you find a good mechanic, treat
> him very well indeed.
> Sincere appologies!

Hey, we're back to getting along! ;-)

Now you and Harry kiss and make up too, OK? <BG>

Marcus G Bell

unread,
Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98
to
> Big Jim wrote:

> > I had a bad experience with "professional" mechanics very early on in
> > my driving career and haven't fully trusted one since. I'd rather 'do
> > it myself' and know it was really done than take a chance on some
> > shop. I learned I can buy a lot of special tols and equipment for what
> > the pros charge for labor. At least that's my opinion.

Dave Brown (da...@brownsmarina.on.ca) wrote:

> And will you be doing you're own surgery in the future as well? ;-)

There's a joke whose punchline is "I take it he's you're only child"
which would fit in here.

--
--
Marcus. ( be...@mail.med.upenn.edu )

Pete Gordley

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
he he he !!! That is great, Big Jim. When Dave Brown same as told you you
were and idiot, you told him that you were much more educated than what he
thought. hehe. I just had to tell you that it is nice to see someone getting
flamed that turns the table. Doubt Dave will have much more to say. hehe.
Fan dang tastic!!!

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Pete Gordley wrote:

> he he he !!! That is great, Big Jim. When Dave Brown same as told you you
> were and idiot,

I did no such thing. Please re-read my original post and note the ';-)' at the
end. It grieves me to no end that people are unable to separate the humourous
posts from the serious ones when there is clear indication as to which way it
was meant to go.

> you told him that you were much more educated than what he
> thought. hehe. I just had to tell you that it is nice to see someone getting
> flamed that turns the table. Doubt Dave will have much more to say. hehe.
> Fan dang tastic!!!

For those new to Usenet like Pete, there are acronyms and 'emoticons' which help
convey in text, what would normally be seen or heard in tone during an oral
converstaion.

For example, when using sarcasm (where it isn't obvious) or making a subtle
joke, I usually use a 'smiley' incorporating a semi-colon (instead of a colon)
to denote a wink. eg -----> ;-)

A regular smiley is indicated by a :-), whereas you can show a stern look by
furrowing the brow on the smiley like so ------> >:-|

All of the above are referred to as 'emoticons' (emotion/icon).

As for acronyms, there are a few standards that people use that you should be
aware of. The most common I recall right now are:

AFAIK (as far as I know)
BTW (by the way)
LOL (laugh out loud)
ROTFLMAO (rolling on the floor laughing my ass off)

And of course, marine specific terms such as:

WOT (wide open throttle)
TDC (top dead centre)
BTDC (before TDC)
RPM (revolutions per minute)

If in doubt, and you want to make sure your post is taken as intended, you can
always enclose a description inside brackets.

<running and ducking>
<g> or <grin>
<BG> or <BIG GRIN>
<sadistic smile>
etc.

I'm convinced many a flame war starts from a simple misunderstanding, and
keeping an eye out for such indicators would go a long way to alieviating
unnecessary tension.

I've got a list of hundreds somewhere in my archives, but I think this gives a
good start. Anybody want to add the the list of basics?


--
Regards,

Dave Brown


Marshfield Mass.

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Well Dave,
Would you consider searching for your list and posting it. I,
for one, would be most grateful. ;-) :-)

--
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services

Dave Brown wrote in message
<3617B7B0...@brownsmarina.on.ca>...

Alan Fossum

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to


>Skipper
I have a question about winterizing. I will be doing this for the
first time next weekend. I have a 1976 Slickcraft with OMC stringer
out drive. The engine is a 351 ford.
How do I hook up the garden hose to the outdrive when warming up the
motor? On the old stringer outdrives I don't believe ear muffs will
work. Thanks Al

Marshfield Mass.

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
There should be a cap on the stbd. pivot end cover. Remove the cap
and screw on a female/female garden hose adapter so that you can
attach your garden hose.
If there is no such fitting on your stringer, you need to purchase
one from your OMC dealer.

--
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services
Alan Fossum wrote in message ...
(stuff deleted)

Skipper

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> There should be a cap on the stbd. pivot end cover. Remove the cap
> and screw on a female/female garden hose adapter so that you can
> attach your garden hose.

Alternately, the Camco clear plastic tubing with male connector goes to
this fitting and the garden hose goes to the Camco kit intake fitting.

--
Skipper

Richard Eriksson

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Pete Gordley wrote:
>
> he he he !!! That is great, Big Jim. When Dave Brown same as told you you
> were and idiot, you told him that you were much more educated than what he

> thought. hehe. I just had to tell you that it is nice to see someone getting
> flamed that turns the table. Doubt Dave will have much more to say. hehe.
> Fan dang tastic!!!


... and now a word from our sponsors ....

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> Well Dave,
> Would you consider searching for your list and posting it. I, for
> one, would be most grateful. ;-) :-)

My pleasure Jim. It took some digging into the archives of my Warp
machine (a nostolgic one at that). Many are good for a chuckle. :-) I
don't know if I ever kept the emoticon list, but I know there's an
Internet site out there for those with some time to kill.

AAMOF = as a matter of fact
ADN = any day now
AFAICS = as far as I can see
AFAIK = as far as I know
AISI = as I see it
ALTERNATIVE = form is
AS On Another Subject
ATSL Along The Same Line
AWGTHTGTATA? = are we going to have to go through all this again?
AWGTHTGTTA? = are we going to have to go through this again?
BBFN = bye bye for now
BBS = bulletin board system
BCNU Be seeing you ....
BIOYIOP = blow it out your input output port
BNF = big name fan
BOT = back on topic
BRB = be right back (generally used on chat systems)
BTA = but then again
BTW = by the way
BYKT = but you knew that
BYKTA = but you knew that already
CC = conference coordinator
CH = conference host
CMIIW = correct me if i'm wrong
CU = see you
CUL = catch/see you later
CUL8R See You Later...
CWYL = chat with you later
CYL = catch/see you later
DIIK = damned if I know
DNPM = darn near p***ed myself
EOD = end of discussion
EOL = end of lecture
ESOSL = endless snorts of stupid laughter
EMFBI = Excuse me for butting in
FDROTFL = falling down rolling on the floor laughing
FITB = fill in the blank
FOTCL = falling off the chair laughing
FTASB = faster than a speeding bullet
FUBAR = f***** up beyond all reconigition
FUBB = f***** up beyond belief
FWIW = for what it's worth
FYI = for your information
GD&R = grin(ning), duck(ing) & run(ning)
GIWIST = gee, I wish i'd said that
GOK = god only knows
GROK = understand
HHO1/2K = ha ha only half kidding
HHOK = ha ha only kidding
HTH = hope this helps
IAC = in any case
IANAL = I am not a lawyer
IC = I see
IITYWYBAD = if I tell you, will you buy another drink
IITYWYBMAB = if I tell you, will you buy me a beer
ILSHIBAMF = I laughed so hard I broke all my furniture
IMCDO = in my conceited dogmatic opinion.
IMHO = in my humble opinion
IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion
IMNSHO = in my opinion
INPO = in no particular order
IOW = in other words
JFYI = just for your information
JSNM = just stark naked magic
KCBIWIYWI = keep coming back, it works if you work it
L8R = later
LAB&TYD = life's a bitch and then you die
LLTA = lots and lots of thunderous/thundering applause
LMAO = laughing my a** off
LOL = laughing out loud
LTIP = laughing till I puke
MUNG = mash until no good
MYOB = mind your own business
NICBDAT = nothing is certain but death and taxes
NIMBY = not in my backyard
NIMTO = not in my term of office
NPLU = not people like us
NQOS = not quite our sort
OATUS = on a totally unrelated subject
OAUS = on an unrelated subject
OIC = oh, I see
ONNA = oh no, not again
ONNTA = oh no, not this again
OOTC = obligatory on-topic comment
OTOH = on the other hand
OTOOH = on the other other hand
OTW = on the whole
OWTTE = or words to that effect
PGY = post graduate year pgy-1, pgy-2 etc. used in pgy med.
PITA = pain in the arse
PMETC = pardon me etc.
POV = point of view
PPP = petty pet peeve
R/O = receiver/read only
RIME = relaynet (tm) international message exchange
ROTFL = ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING
ROFL = rolling on floor laughing
ROFLAHMSL = rolling on floor laughing and holding my sides laughing
ROFLASTC = rolling on floor laughing and scaring the cat
ROFLGO = rolling on floor laughing guts out
ROTBA = reality on the blink again
ROTFL = rolling on the floor laughing
ROTFLMAAOBPO = rolling on the floor laughing my a** and other body parts
off
ROTM = right on the money
RSN = real soon now
RTFM = read the "fine" manual
RTFM = read the f**king manual
RTFMA = read the manual, sir (from the military)
SC = steering committee
SICS = sitting in chair snickering
SIG = special interest group
SNAFU = situation normal all f***** up
SOI = stunk on ice
SWAG = simple wild a** guess
SYSOP = system operator
SYT = sweet young thing
TANJ = there ain't no justice (niven)
TANSTAAFL = there ain't no such thing as a free lunch (heinlein)
TGAL = think globally, act locally
TIC = tongue in cheek
TINALO = this is not a legal opinion
TINAR = this is not a recommendation
TINWIS = that is not what I said
TIWTGLGG = this is where the goofy little grin goes
TJATAW = truth, justice, and the american way
TLA = three letter acronym
TPTB = the powers that be
TRDMC = tears running down my cheeks
TTBOMK = to the best of my knowledge
TTFN = ta ta for now
TTMS = talk/type to me soon
TTUL = talk/type to you later
TTYL = talk/type to you later
TTYLA = talk/type to you later, alligator
TWOK = the wrath of kahn (star trek 2)
TYVM = thank you very much
WAMKSAM = why are my kids/kitties staring at me?
WDYMBT = what do/did you mean by that?
WIBAMU = well i'll be a monkey's uncle
WMMOWS = wash my mouth out with soap
WTH = what the heck
WYLABOCTGWTR = would you like a bowl of cream to go with that remark?
WYLASOMWTC = would you like a saucer of milk with that comment?
WYSBYGI = what you see before you get it
WYSIWYG = what you see is what
WYSIWYG = what you see is what you get
YAOTM = yet another off-topic message
YAP = yet another ploy
YASQ = yet another stupid question
YATI = yet another trek inconsistancy
YMMV = your mileage may vary

FITB Fill In The Blank....
FYI For Your Information
FUBAR Fouled Up Beyond All Repair
FWIW For What Its Worth
FYI For Your Information
GD&R Grinning, Ducking & Running (usually left at the
end of a mean or digging message)
GROK As in "I GROK" means thorough understanding. From
Heinlein)
GIWIST Gee I Wish I'd Said That
HHTYAY Happy Holidays to You and Yours
IANAL I Am Not A Lawyer
IC I See
IITYWISWYBMAD If I Tell You What It Says, Will You Buy Me A
drink
IMCO In My Considered Opinion
IMHO In My Humble or Honest Opinion
IMNSHO In My Not So Humble Opinion
IOW In Other Words
ISBAB I Should have Bought A Book
ITSFWI If The Shoe Fits, Wear It
KHYF Know How You Feel
L8R Later...
LOL Laughing Out Loud
LTNT Long Time, No Type
NTYMI Now that you mention it
OIC Oh, I See...
OOTQ Out of the question
OTOH On The Other Hand
OTTOMH Off the top of my head
PMJI Pardon my jumping in
POV Point Of View
PPTSPAHS Please Pass The Salt, Pepper And Hot Sauce...used
when I've had to eat crow, my hat, and other
unsavory dishes
ROTF Rolling On The Floor
ROTFL Rolling On The Floor Laughing
SNAMU Situation Normal, All messed Up
SOW Speaking of which
RSN Real Soon Now
RTM Read The Manual
SYSOP System Operator
TANJ There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
(From the S.F. novel "The Earth is a
Harsh Mistress" by Robert Heinlein

TAANSTASQ There ain't no such thing as a stupid question
TFTHAOT Thanx For The Help Ahead Of Time...used
for a favor requested, or an answer or help that
there's no doubt will come, but I want to make
sure the person knows I appreciate their taking their
time to do it.
TPTB The Powers That Be
TOBAL There Oughta Be A Law
TOBG This Oughta Be Good
TTBOMK To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN Ta Ta For Now
TTUL (TTYL) Talk To You Later
YGLT You're Gonna Love This ...
YKYARW You Know You're A Redneck When==
WYSIWYG What You See Is What You Get
HAGO Have A Good One

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> There should be a cap on the stbd. pivot end cover. Remove the cap
> and screw on a female/female garden hose adapter so that you can
> attach your garden hose.

> If there is no such fitting on your stringer, you need to purchase
> one from your OMC dealer.

This is another one of those options that were installed almost
exclusively in salt water use areas. I can't recall the last time I saw
one in fresh water and would be surprized if OMC still sells them (these
parts seem to be going extinct rapidly lately). This motor might be a
good candidate for the method I outlined if only to be sure the wtaer
pump was also filled with anti-freeze as these pumps trap water and
freeze over the winter.

My two cents...

Michael J Porter

unread,
Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to
In article <36152A1B...@brownsmarina.on.ca>,
Dave Brown <da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:
=>Skipper wrote:
=>
=>> I do know this; Camco, West Marine, BBB, several marinas, and many
=>> individuals I checked with before adopting this method all said "no
=>> problems or complaints". The chill factor for the area I winterize for
=>> gets as low as -100 degrees in the winter. I have never had a problem
=>> with this method, and it does allow winter boating & remote
=>
=>This would be an important time to point out that 'wind chill' is a term
=>used to describe the effect on human skin in a wind. I'm told (by those
=>scientific types who know such things) that to an engine block, the actual
=>temperature is what matters. Where I live, we touch -35 deg C and since I've
=>got over 100 of these babies stored in my care, I'd better have a high
=>confidence factor in the method I choose (whatever it is).
=>
=>> Have you ever heard of a real problem or complaint from a user of the
=>> 'bucket' method? That is, other than from Rip 'n Dip winterizing
=>> mechanics who view the method as a rice bowl issue? Remember, these are
=>> the guys who poor automotive antifreeze in your engine cooling system
=>> and tell you it's ready to launch in the spring.
=>
=>Uh oh, we're approaching a line neither of us wants to see you cross.
=>
=>> Ripping hoses and
=>> finding hidden drain plugs IS problematic, even for the pros. Are you
=>> SURE they didn't forget "just one"?
=>
=>I guarantee it.
=>
=>--
=>Regards,
=>
=> Dave Brown
=> Brown's Marina
=> http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/
=>
=>

And if you are doing this yourself, you have a service manual and
can presumably count. What is the "bucket method" I keep hearing
about?

Mike

Marshfield Mass.

unread,
Oct 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/5/98
to
Let's hope the fellow can find the adapter. If not, I guess he will
have to put the boat in the water to change oil and fog the engine.
And I echo your recommendations for engine protection. I don't see
any other good way to do it.
Although I saw one marina using a system like Ol Skipper uses.
The difference was they used what looked like a 100 gallon tank that
also recovered the exhaust water. They kept monitoring the mixture
and added antifreeze as necessary. They ran the engine long enough
to be sure they had replaced all the water with a good antifreeze
mix. The only drawback's I can see are the water becomes more
contaminated as you move from boat to boat, and by not opening the
drains, you aren't removing the rust and crud that settles behind
the drain plugs, and the hoses probably aren't getting inspected,
And if your at a salt water location you should flush with fresh
water first, and it probably doesn't save any time. Aw shit! This
method isn't any good either.
You've been winterizing boats for 20 years or so. Why haven't
you come up with a better way to do it? ;-)

Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
(EMAIL) custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net
(WEB PAGE) http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services

Dave Brown wrote in message

<36181DA6...@brownsmarina.on.ca>...

Skipper

unread,
Oct 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/5/98
to
Marshfield Mass. wrote:

> Although I saw one marina using a system like Ol Skipper uses.
> The difference was they used what looked like a 100 gallon tank that
> also recovered the exhaust water. They kept monitoring the mixture
> and added antifreeze as necessary. They ran the engine long enough
> to be sure they had replaced all the water with a good antifreeze
> mix. The only drawback's I can see are the water becomes more
> contaminated as you move from boat to boat, and by not opening the
> drains, you aren't removing the rust and crud that settles behind
> the drain plugs, and the hoses probably aren't getting inspected,
> And if your at a salt water location you should flush with fresh
> water first, and it probably doesn't save any time. Aw shit! This
> method isn't any good either.

The original post was written to show NG readers contemplating their
first self-winterization that the process was actually quite simple and
safe using the Camco kit. The engine freeze protection procedure
basically involved connecting a water hose and then turning a knob.
Skills that most folks wouldn't find too challenging. The described oil
change procedure was also very simple. These procedures are not for all.
And many who understand the procedure still prefer to pay a mechanic to
accomplish this work. Different strokes!

Your statements about rust, crud, & saltwater are scary, but don't
square with my experience with raw water cooling systems. If you know of
a varifiable service problem caused by someones use of the Camco
winterizing kit, please inform us all.

--
Skipper

Peter W. Meek

unread,
Oct 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/5/98
to
On Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:10:19 -0400, Dave Brown <da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:

You attribute a few of these to people, so I thought I'd
add an attribution and a possible addition/correction.

>RSN = real soon now

First saw this in Jerry Pournelle's column in BYTE
magazine -- long before I saw it online. Not saying
he didn't get it from elsewhere, but I've been a
heavy reader in computing from long before he began
writing that column. Generally used in a *very*
sarcastic sense, as in cases where delivery promises
have been broken repeatedly.

>TINAR = this is not a recommendation

I first began seeing this in the conferences on the
BIX (Byte Information eXchange), an early online
service that used to be a part of Byte Magazine's
services. BIX was considered to be a part of Byte's
publishing efforts, so subscribers were prohibited
from "publishing" unauthorized "reviews" of products
in the conferences. Thus all comments on commercial
products by subscribers came to include the wry remark
that "This is not a review," which quickly began to
be abbreviated as "TINAR". BTW, BIX is still in
existence, and mainly populated by people with a
*very* high level of computer expertise. No longer
a part of Byte Mag, though.

--
--Pete
pwm...@mail.msen.com (Peter W. Meek)
rec.boats caps at:
http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/cap-main.html

Alan Fossum

unread,
Oct 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/5/98
to
Dave Brown <da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote:

>This is another one of those options that were installed almost
>exclusively in salt water use areas. I can't recall the last time I saw
>one in fresh water and would be surprized if OMC still sells them (these
>parts seem to be going extinct rapidly lately). This motor might be a
>good candidate for the method I outlined if only to be sure the wtaer
>pump was also filled with anti-freeze as these pumps trap water and
>freeze over the winter.
>
>My two cents...
>

Hello Dave, I printed out you winterizing post and will have to go
through it again. (I'm the guy that asked the question about stringer
drives and hooking up cooling).
I did the winterizing last year with the old owners of the boat. They
just pulled the petcocks and then installed rv anti freeze. I plan on
following your recommendations this season.
Will be going up to lake superior this weekend for a couple of dives
then trailering home to winterize.
What do you think of shrink wrap????????????
Al

Dave Brown

unread,
Oct 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/5/98
to
Alan Fossum wrote:

> Will be going up to lake superior this weekend for a couple of dives
> then trailering home to winterize.
> What do you think of shrink wrap????????????

I'm a reluctant convert. For most people, it's more economical to build a
frame and buy a good quality tarp that will last for years (all my large
boats are done this way). But for the 16-18 foot boats that won't fit in
buildings this year, it's a quick and dirty option to get me by until I can
put up more buildings. I have experienced-based concerns about the moisture
levels in boats that are shrink-wrapped and would caution anyone using it to
make sure the boat can breathe (a couple of stick-on vents won't do it). I
overcome this by wrapping the boat with the motor in the tilted position thus
allowing the enitre back end to be vented, and still prevent rain/snow from
getting in.

Allen Perrins

unread,
Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to
Hello all
Shrink wrap is NOT recommended for boats which have been
coated
with AwlGrip, Imron, or any paint. Moisture trapped between
hull and
wrap causes damage to paint !
Al

Dave Brown <da...@brownsmarina.on.ca> wrote in article
<36197485...@brownsmarina.on.ca>...

Mark Lenox

unread,
Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to da...@brownsmarina.on.ca

Dave Brown wrote:

> I'm a reluctant convert. For most people, it's more economical to build a
> frame and buy a good quality tarp that will last for years (all my large
> boats are done this way). But for the 16-18 foot boats that won't fit in
> buildings this year, it's a quick and dirty option to get me by until I can
> put up more buildings. I have experienced-based concerns about the moisture
> levels in boats that are shrink-wrapped and would caution anyone using it to
> make sure the boat can breathe (a couple of stick-on vents won't do it). I
> overcome this by wrapping the boat with the motor in the tilted position thus
> allowing the enitre back end to be vented, and still prevent rain/snow from
> getting in.

Aren't there solar powered ventilators that are reuseable and can be stuck on the
shrink wrap? I would think that powered ventilation of this type would be
sufficient to keep things dry.

Mark Lenox


Peter W. Meek

unread,
Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to
On Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:12:59 -0400, Richard Eriksson <re...@vptec.com> wrote:

>Wind chill is due to the evaporation of water on the skin.
>(We sweat even in the winter). Wind increases the evaporation rate.
>When water evaporates, it gives off heat (called latent heat of
>evaporation) and results in the skin being cooled.

The original wind-chill tables were done with water-filled
balloons in Antarctica. No evaporation there. The effect is
of blowing away the warm layer of air that sits on the surface
of the skin in still air, and replacing it with fresh, cold
air. The cooling is simple conductance from skin to air.

BTW, it is accepted that the original tables have serious
defects, but they are still what is used by the various
weather services as far as I know.

Marcus G Bell

unread,
Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to
Peter W. Meek (pwm...@mail.msen.com) wrote:

> The original wind-chill tables were done with water-filled
> balloons in Antarctica. No evaporation there. The effect is
> of blowing away the warm layer of air that sits on the surface
> of the skin in still air, and replacing it with fresh, cold
> air. The cooling is simple conductance from skin to air.

> BTW, it is accepted that the original tables have serious
> defects, but they are still what is used by the various
> weather services as far as I know.

Interesting stuff about how wind chill factor is measured. A lifeform
whose body temperature is higher than air temperature might perceive a
windy day at 30 to feel like a still day at 0 because the insulating
layer of air is exchanging with cold air, but that doesn't mean that
if the lifeform were to stop producing heat that it would drop to
0. An object can't get colder than the air temperature, unless it can
give off energy to evaporation or something else. So, all in all,
windchill factor is of monor relevance when discussing freezing point
protection of an engine cooling system.

Richard C. Eriksson

unread,
Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to
Peter W. Meek wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:12:59 -0400, Richard Eriksson <re...@vptec.com> wrote:
>
> >Wind chill is due to the evaporation of water on the skin.
> >(We sweat even in the winter). Wind increases the evaporation rate.
> >When water evaporates, it gives off heat (called latent heat of
> >evaporation) and results in the skin being cooled.
>
> The original wind-chill tables were done with water-filled
> balloons in Antarctica. No evaporation there. The effect is
> of blowing away the warm layer of air that sits on the surface
> of the skin in still air, and replacing it with fresh, cold
> air. The cooling is simple conductance from skin to air.
>
> BTW, it is accepted that the original tables have serious
> defects, but they are still what is used by the various
> weather services as far as I know.
>
> --
> --Pete
> pwm...@mail.msen.com (Peter W. Meek)
> rec.boats caps at:
> http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/cap-main.html

Pete,

I think we are talking about two different effects. In the case of
the balloons, the air temperature of the wind would have to be the
effective wind chill temperature as no evaporation and heat loss
occur