Trojan T-105 vs Crown CR-225
wsp...@bedford.net
golf cart house batteries for several (>8) years and have been told by
our battery experts (?) to replace them with Crowns.
Thanx.
Bill
Doug Dotson
with a Trojan engineer to understand the difference between
the brand name "Trojan" and the batteries that are sold by
BJ's that say "by Trojan" for less money. He gave me some
very good insite why the Trojans are better. I can't comment
on Crown though. I've stopped using liquid electrolyte batteries
altogether so I'm kind of out of that arena now.
dug
Steve
I have been using Trojans for 12 years and can't complain. I have never
heard of Crown so can't offer my opinion on their quality/longevity.
I would tend to be skeptical about any (supposed)deep cycle that you can't
get an independent verification that they perform better than the Trojan,
Rolls or other common deep cycles. This performance should be over a long
period of time. It is not uncommon for a "true" deep cycle battery bank to
last for 8-12 years with proper care.
I think the key term here is verifiable "Track Record".
My experience and opinion, for what it's worth.
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Patrick Walsh
cycle / house / inverter use?
Thanks,
--
Patrick
pat...@northshore.cnchost.com
"Doug Dotson" <ddo...@digidata.com> wrote in message
news:3B5C4DE9...@digidata.com...
Doug Dotson
Happy with the performance so far
but it has only been just under a year. I need to do a capacity check
sometime soon to see how they are doing. I seem to recall that the
expected lifetime if properly cared for is around 10-12 years but then
again that would depend upon the kind of duty they are in. The
Concorde Battery website has some info that for a 50% discharge
the expected number of recharge cycles is 1000 as compared to
around 400 for the "leading gel cell". That is their propaganda.
Check them out at www.concordebattery.com. One thing I do notice
it that when starting out with a full charge, the voltage drops initially to
maybe 12.5 or so and then stays there until it starts to knee off
after many hours. Once again I need to do a few charge discharge
cycles with a data logger to get the real picture.
dug
_______TVD________
Don't want to start a flame , but i will never use gell lead acid .
Ampacity is poor . Gell slows chemical activity so you can't
get big amps as a thin plate can .
I like the golf cart types as they split the diff' between engine
starting and deep cycle . That is if you have enough in your
bank , you can start an engine . No ! I did not say 2 T105's
starting a 4 cyl diesel ! You'll need more than if you used
thin plate starting types . IN fact to be perfectly proper
at 70 amps each you'll need 10 to get 350 amps at 12vdc .
Since starting is for such a short time , you can fudge and
call it 100 amps from a T105 , but you will get less efficiency
( read amphours , or energy ) .
=================================
Patrick Walsh <pat...@nospam.northshore.net> wrote in message
news:9k54dd$9...@dispatch.concentric.net...
F. Yaskin
Or are you lacking sleep?
You are using mixing all kinds of rating methods to make your math come
out. Try again.
Trust me, you can get a lot more than 70A out of a pair of 105s for 30
seconds. And that's called Cranking Amps.
"_______TVD________" <NOSPA...@ultrasw.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmj4q26...@corp.supernews.com...
_______TVD________
You are ignorant of batteries . I wrote that if you want the
full energy from your battery , you must take less than
70 amps . That stands !
To draw more amps , lessens the energy you get from a
T105 .
Do you know what amp hours is ?
========================================
F. Yaskin
Doug Dotson
for a T-105 is 560A. Enough to start my diesel.
dug
F. Yaskin
You know a lot less than you think you do, and not enough for me to
clutter my inbox with.
"_______TVD________" <NOSPA...@ultrasw.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmlfrv2...@corp.supernews.com...
_______TVD________
It comes from the maker ! Golf cart batt's are NOT thin plate ,
starting batt's !! They are NOT designed to make hundreds of amps
for cranking engines . They are designed to make amps over a longer
peroid of time .
Thin plate batteries are a compromise to get the high cranking amps
and you pay for this in lower life and less efficiency , quicker
self discharge etc .
The cheapest Walmart starting batt will produce higher amps pound
for pound after a few seconds than the highest quality golf cart batt' .
========================================
Doug Dotson ..
> Where does the 70 amps come from? The Cold Cranking Amps
> for a T-105 is 560A. Enough to start my diesel.
============================================
Tom Scott wrote
F. Yaskin
"_______TVD________" <NOSPA...@ultrasw.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmm6ek1...@corp.supernews.com...
Doug Dotson
_______TVD________
I did , long ago and i think they ( golf cart batt's) were
70 amps at 2.5 hours . If you want life from them you
will need to keep high rate discharges to a minimum .
They do not have a CCR rating , only starting batterys
have this . But if you over size , you can start diesels .
I'm working on a "Turbonique " idea .
Propane and compressed air enter a combustion chamber ,
ignited and they escape thru a small turbine .
100 h.p. is easy with this system .
D's are hard starting if the RPM is a little low .
The air can't get hot enough to ignite fuel .
Gas engine can start at 1/10 the RPM !
==============================================
Doug Dotson
> Read the specs bonehead.
>
Doug Dotson
Sheldon Haynie
Use of a propane torch, blown into the air intake (obviously with any
filters removed)
Head mechanic used this to "wake up" our westerbeke after fuel fouling,
With 3 of 4 slow glow plugs (no spares at marina)
Sdh
On 8/16/01 1:23 PM, in article tno007q...@corp.supernews.com,
Doug Dotson
my mind just in case. My engine doesn't have glow plugs but it
still might come in handy someday. Someone told me you could
start a diesel with a bunch of D flashlight batteries as well. You
have to have the feature to releave the compression though. My
old Yanmar could do it. No so with the Perkins.
doug
Avenging Disco Godfather
> If you have hard starting due to fouled glowplug/slow rpm consider the
> Use of a propane torch, blown into the air intake (obviously with any
> filters removed)
A silly question perhaps, but is this propane torch lit, or just being
used to introduce unburned propane fuel to be ignited by compression?
Dan
--
Anyone who complains that they're getting laid too often for it to
be cost-efficient really needs to have their head examined.
-- Cameron Perkins
_______TVD________
Ha ha ha break connecting rods ha ha ha ah .ROTFL
Anything that is gas before it gets in such as Ethyl Ether
( starting fluid ) will do the least damage to engine .It will
not wash off the oil .
==================================
Karl Denninger <>
> BEWARE injecting ANY fuel into a diesel's intake. If it ignites BEFORE
the
> piston reaches the top of the compression stroke you can break connecting
> rods. This is why, by the way, Ether ("starting fluid") is dangerous to
use;
> there is no guarantee it won't pre-ignite as it is not metered into the
> cylinder but rather is drawn in with the air charge.
>
> Consider what happens if the engine fires and while significant angular
> momentum is present a charge of "enriched air" ignites on the upstroke
> of the piston.
>
> The odds of breaking something are very high in that situation.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
Avenging Disco Godfather
> KC...@hotmail.com
> Ha ha ha break connecting rods ha ha ha ah .ROTFL
I suspect you have NO CLUE how a diesel operates.
Dan
--
The Apocalypse is INVISCID!
-- Gary Yngve
(on modeling nuclear explosions with the Navier-Stokes equations.)
_______TVD________
Not according to US Battery ! You will notice that my 70 amps was very
close to their 75 amps "US2200" 6 vdc golf cart battery .
I originally got my info that golf batterys are thicker plate from
the " Battery bible " . Expect far less amps and amphours from
them if used as starting battery .
You will not get 11 vdc from 2 6 vdc golf batt's if you
start at 800 crank amps . Yes the maker will say they will ,
but they sell batteries ! As i use batteries , i need to be right ,
not profitable .
AmpHours
(20hr. Minutes Minutes
rate) @75 Amps @25 Amps
US-2200 220 115 447
US-125 230 132 488
US-145 245 145 530
wt Length Width Height
63 lbs 10-1/4" 7-1/8" 11-1/8"
67 lbs 10-1/4" 7-1/8" 11-1/8"
70 lbs. 10-1/4" 7-1/8" 11-7/8"
========================================
F. Yaskin <
_______TVD________
Your suspicions are baseless . D' engines can not be destroyed with ethyl
ether
nor WD40 nor propane .
Ever tried raw propane ? When a D' engine can't heat the air by
compression
'cause it's too cold/RPM is low , anything that has a high cetane / poor
octane
rating will detonate .
This is how your model airplane engine works ( detonates
far before TDC ) . Imagine the stress on rods !
=======================================
Avenging Disco Godfather
Doug Dotson
I see below relate to battery capacity not cold cranking ability.
No one expects high amp-hour capacity out of a starting battery. If
they do they are using the wrong kind of battery for the wrong job.
Using a thick plate deep cycle battery for starting is not optimal
but not necessarily wrong. My boat has a 4D Gel Deep Cycle
battery for starting. Previous owner put it in there and it works
fine. I will be replacing it with a good Trojan starting battery
since it takes up less than half the space..
Doug
JAXAshby
>ether
I personally knew a guy who dumped doctor's ether (100%) into the carb on a
doctor's car. When the engine made it's second rev (first with ether in a
firing cylinder), the engine came apart. I was told part of one spark plug
went through the hood, and oil was running onto the -20 temp snow below the
pan.
I started lots of balky cars, and I assure you that if the engine doesn't start
immediately once "ether" was sprayed down the carb, the wasn't going to start
at all (in fact the engine cranking speed would drop to near nothing -- even
with 18 volts, sometime 24 volts put to the starter -- inside of 15 seconds or
so as the oil was washed from the cylinders) until it was pushed into a warm
garage for several and let sit.
Starting ether is the tool of a hammer mechanic.
F. Yaskin
maniacally wrong??
Look, if you have a learning disability, a translation situation or some
sort of attention deficit problem, tell us, we'll be understanding.
Meanwhile, stop being a moron. Where the hell did the 800 cranking amp
requirement come from?
Yes, thin plates allow higher short term current draw than thick plates.
But in the context of your postings, it is NOT an issue, nor do the
numbers you post support your opinions or conclusions.
Stop dribbling, and listen to people who might teach you something.
Y/A
"_______TVD________" <NOSPA...@ultrasw.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:to2hc85...@corp.supernews.com...
_______TVD________
Your post proves you should not be allowed any where near
a mechanical device . Ethyl Ether does not blow up engines .
Us expert mechanics do not try to start an engine when it
does not attain proper starting RPM* . We fix the problem
and try again . I never use more than a 1/3 second hit from
the starting fluid , 'cause anything more is a waste , won't help .
My EF1000 Yam' works well with starting fluid . The tiny jets
plug every 4 months . I had to keep it running for about a
minute, injecting a 1/3 second blast every 5 seconds . But
jets did not clear , so i had to disasemble carb .
I know how to properly use starting fluid .
I think you have the wrong impression that since it is
higher volitility / flammability , it must also have higher energy .
This is wrong . Diesel actually has higher energy than
gas , ethyl ether , propane, nat gas . And since it
is so vol' , it will be impossible to get a too rich mixture , much
less liquid ethyl ether into the cyl' to blow up engine .
==========================================
JAXAshby
I started lots of balky cars, and I assure you that if the engine doesn't
start
immediately once "ether" was sprayed down the carb, the wasn't going to
start
at all (in fact the engine cranking speed would drop to near nothing* --
_______TVD________
Gel batterys are not to be used for starting engines .
Restricted chemical activity of gel's makes CCA very poor .
Thin plate batteries are needed for starting else one needs
170 lbs of golf batt' to do same job 800 CCA.
Trojan makes money selling/making batteries . If you waste your
T105 starting engines , Trojan will be quite happy to sell more .
134 lbs at 560 CCA . Think it over !!!!! Starting batts do this
in 40 lbs !!!
Reiterating ..... If one wants to start engines , one must use many more
lbs of batterys to do this as thick plate golf batts have higher internal R
.
=====================================
Doug Dotson <ddo...@digidata.com> wrote in message
news:3B814CD9...@digidata.com...
Doug Dotson
the terms he used to describe himself recently:
expert antenna engineer
expert transmission line enginer
expert mechanic
doug
Doug Dotson
can decode your rather strange style of writing, the question
related to the fact that you need more deep cycle batteries
to do starting that you would if you used a starting battery.
That is true. Nobody was debating weight vs purpose as
I recall. My gel battery does an outstanding of starting
my diesel, so your comment about gels unsuitable for
starting is false.
doug
Kevin
> Us expert mechanics do not try to start an engine when it
> does not attain proper starting RPM* .
How do you expert mechanics know an engine will not attain proper starting
RPM without actually trying to start it? That's a pretty good trick.
Regards,
Kevin
JAXAshby
>a mechanical device . Ethyl Ether does not blow up engines .
Hey, dum-dum. You're trying to change the discussion. 1/3rd second? Geesh!
Stay on the subject.
As for your use of ether to start engines, well okay. do it if you want, but
remember ether is the tool of the hammer mechanic. If you have no fuel (in the
case of a diesel) getting to the engine, the ether washes the oil off the
cylinders. Put away your 2# adn 8# hammers for a while and listen to that
engine. It talks to you. Listen.
edgar cove
<jaxa...@aol.com> writes
> Put away your 2# adn 8# hammers for a while and listen to that
>engine. It talks to you. Listen.
How can he when he can't get the damn thing to start?
--
edgar (remove nospam from return address for e-mail reply)
JAXAshby
>>engine. It talks to you. Listen.
>
>How can he when he can't get the damn thing to start?
>--
>edgar
eddy, it doesn't *have* to start to hear rings grinding against cylinder walls.