C&C 30 vs Catalina 30
Michael Cooke
Does anyone have experience with C&C30 and/or Catalina 30 (1980 vintage)
they could share? Want to use on Great Lakes but also take down East
Coast, possibly to Bahamas. How about to Bermuda eventually? Which is
better buy and why? What other choices in this range given the
predominant use will be cruising Great Lakes?
Warren Hale
In article <fishmealE...@netcom.com>, fish...@netcom.com says...
>
>A strong vote for the C&C (maybe because I have a lot more experience
>with the Catalina...)
>--
>fish...@netcom.com
>http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html
>
> -"Call me Fishmeal"-
I have sailed on both. The V-berth on the C&C is quite small but the boat is
much faster. The room on the Cat. is hard to beat. It is a coin toss - the
usual trade off space of performance. - How about a C&C35 - then you have
both. Hale
Terry Schell
wh...@direct.ca (Warren Hale) writes:
Not just space and performance... some of the Cat 30's were somewhat less
than rugged as they came from the factory. I hear good things about the
construction of newer Catalina's, but I would probably compare the
survey's on the two boats before I made a decision.
Andrew G. Smith
I had an '84 Catalina 30' with the tall rig and winged keel (shoal
draft). It was a great boat. Plenty fast, plenty room, plenty nice but
not greatly any of those. Frankly, I wish I still had it.
Most of the people I've sailed with consider Catalina the Chevrolet of
boats. Not high-dollar, not low-budget.
As far as limited cruising, I had her in some quite rough water and even
some huge swells(breakers) in the inlets around here. I've driven it
faster than theoretical hull speed under sail and even pounded her into
head seas for hours on end. However, I think this boat is a coastal
cruiser. She's okay for the Great Lakes and Bahamas (bot not under all
conditions) but Bermuda is crossing the Gulf Stream combined with open
ocean sailing. Anything can happen out there and you better be
prepared.
I would suggest you decide if you're really going to go to Bermuda and
if so are you going to take your own boat?
Good Luck,
Andrew G. Smith
Butler Communications Inc.
7721 Six Forks Road, Suite 140
Raleigh, NC 27615
Andrew Burton
I would definately not recommend the Catalina for any extended cruising.
The boat is not put together well enough. The C&C is a different matter,
my father used one at our sailing school for years and the boat held up
very well. It is a very well mannered boat and very well built. The 30
is quite capable of making offshore passages given due care to the
planning end of things and the weather. I see them cruising all over the
Caribbean. I also agree about the 35 especially the mark 1, a very good
boat. I should add that I run an offshore education company and am quick
to condemn boats that shouldn't be out there.
Andy Burton
Paul Kamen
Tom Masters
Paul Kamen wrote:
>
> A strong vote for the C&C (maybe because I have a lot more experience
> with the Catalina...)
> --
I'm sure you have your reasons. Like to share them? I'm interested.
--
Tom Masters, President
MCC Computer Leasing Corp.
Victoria, B.C. Canada
Voice: (250) 595-7105
ga...@pacintl.com
I absolutely agree. I've had experience with C&C 34s, 36s, and 40s,
all built in the 1980s. They're solid boats that are well-balanced
in all conditions, especially the heavy air conditions common to the
San Francisco bay. The Catalina 320 (1994) is a pretty boat, with lots
of room and comfort below deck, but has terrible weather helm in all
but light conditions (<15 kts). If you're going offshore, lots of room
below is the last thing you want... too much opportunity to bounce
about or have things flying around.
Happy sails to you...
Jonathan
(http://www.pacintl.com/sailing.html)
Wally Kowal
Michael Cooke wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience with C&C30 and/or Catalina 30 (1980 vintage)
> they could share? Want to use on Great Lakes but also take down East
> Coast, possibly to Bahamas. How about to Bermuda eventually? Which is
> better buy and why? What other choices in this range given the
> predominant use will be cruising Great Lakes?
Michael,
My vote goes for the C&C. I met a C&C 32 in Grenada that had sailed from
Toronto. This sail was probably just beyond the designed capability of the
boat, as they had lost their mast (the rod rigging gave, toppling the mast
about 30 miles from Grenada). Their major complaint was that the C&C
stantions weren't up to off-shore use. During the trip, they had broken
every single stantion base and were looking into a more solid base design.
Other than that, they loved the boat.
Remember that you have to trade off Great Lakes performance for blue water
capability. If you buy a boat solid enough for blue water, it will likely be
a pig on the great lakes. I've met plenty of people in Toronto who complain
that the lakes' fickle July and August winds turn their sailboat into a power
boat. Likewise, if you buy a lighter boat that can perform well in light
air, then you will have to be more careful in blue water situations (i.e.
take it easy and wait longer for better weather windows).
My wife and I will soon be facing your decision as we trade in our C&C 30 for
something larger that we can take south for a year.
Good luck.
Wally Kowal
Whistler II
C&C 30 out of LSYC, Toronto
Primestar5
C&C all the WAY!!!!
Look at the sheer Number of older.. still in excellent condition C&C's
outh there..
The loyality amoung C&C owners if Unreal.. As someone who has owned losts
of boats and still pick up lots of boats in distress of damages, I run
when I hear of
a local storm or hurricane.. I usually bid on C&C's without fright, for
the way
they WERE constructed.. I can't say that About MANY boats these days.
I too am a Serious C&C Owner and looking to Purchase the C&C 51 the Queen
of the Fleet.
On a sorry final note C&C has AGAIN closed its doors.. Maybe someone who
understands the Business and the C&C attitude will Resuce them.. I sure
hope so,
for it won't be the same with it THEM.... LARRY
PS I maybe preduduce, for Still considering either Purchasing the Assets
of C&C or starting a NEW Compnay with the same Standards, Workmanship as
the C&C team in Niargara on the Lake Canada.. the skilled work force is
still there.. LARRY
Paul Kamen
Tom Masters <tmas...@islandnet.com> writes:
>I'm sure you have your reasons. Like to share them? I'm interested.
Quality control, mainly. The Catalina wins at the boat show with a very
big interior. But it's built out of a kind of glass-resin-glass sandwich,
cheap and reasonably strong, but way heavier than it needs to be for that
strength. One Catalina 30 experienced major structural damage over the
South Bar near the entrance to SF Bay in the late '70s, I think it was,
with loss of life.
My parents had a Cat-30 for a few years, and we had a number of
potentially serious problems. The worst was the fuel tank. Only held in
place by the fill and vent lines! It would rattle around when the boat
heeled. Fixed under warrantee, but still...
Also the running lights were installed in an interesting way. Green on
port, red on starbaord. (Must have been done by a guy on a stepladder
facing the bow, with directions that said "red on left, green on right").
Easy to fix with a screwdriver, but still...
Then there was the problem with the rudder. Upgraded to a better design,
I think also under warranttee.
I also think the C&C 30 is much nicer looking (to cut to the chase).
Tom Masters
Paul Kamen wrote:
>
> Quality control, mainly....
Thanks for the comments.
Cheers from Lotus Land,
Paul Zankel and/or Nancy Zankel
I've looked at both Catalinas & C&Cs in this size range in my search for
a next boat. The bottom line IMHO is that the C&Cs are much better
under sail, while the Catalinas are better if you plan to spend a lot of
time at anchor.
This is not meant to be disparaging to the Cats, they are designed to be
reasonably priced comfortable boats for cruising IN SIGHT OF LAND. Yes,
they can be raced, and yes, people have made significant voyages in
them, but that is not their target market.
Generally, C&Cs of the same age, condition & equipment are more money
than the Cats. The C&C is a stiffer, faster boat. Even the ones that
have a racer/cruiser orientation have more complex rigs. While I'm not
an expert on each year & model, the C&Cs I've looked at haven't been all
that well ventilated, probably to keep the decks clear for racing.
I hope this helps, because I am sympathetic to this dilemma. Every time
I look at a Catalina 30 or similar boat, it's a tough question: For the
same money, do I want a newer but slower, more comfortable boat, or an
older, sturdier, faster boat like a C&C? Right now I'm leaning toward
the older, faster boat, (or maybe scrounging up a few more bucks)
primarily because my wife & kids like the speed & light air performance
of our current boat, a Tanzer 7.5. (which is one berth too small for
us).
Good luck,
Paul Zankel
Millennium Falcon
Tanzer 7.5 #705
Barnegat Bay, NJ
Kenneth Hirsch
took delivery this fall of the last C&C built, a C&C 36XL. Even though
the crewq knew it was their last boat (at least for now), their pride of
workmanship led them to go all out to ensure that it was the best boat
they could possibly build, the best C&C ever. Apparently, there are
some parties negotiating to buy up the assets; one group includes the
former production manager, a man of great experience, skill and
integrity. I haven't heard from him in several weeks, but he was still
hopeful then and I hope something works out. The property for the
facility in Niagara-on-the-Lake has been sold, probably for condominiums
or a hotel, since the town is a big summer resort. Anyway, if you are
in the Northeast, you may be interested in joining the C&C Sailing
Association, Northeast, which is very active. You can visit the website
at http://members.aol.com/cncyachts/homepage.html If you want to see
the last C&C, look for Pukalani on LI Sound this season.
Terry Schell
ga...@pacintl.com writes:
>The Catalina 320 (1994) is a pretty boat, with lots
>of room and comfort below deck, but has terrible weather helm in all
>but light conditions (<15 kts). If you're going offshore, lots of room
Just to clairify, the 320 is a fairly different design than the Cat
30. It has a much fuller stern. I chartered one for a week and
enjoyed it, but you had to play with the tuning to get it to sail well
in different wind conditions. I found it controllable on all points
of sail in 30-35 knots of wind in the S.B. channel, but not exactly
easy to sail.
Colin&Catherine
C&C 30 is 2000 lbs. lighter than the Cat 30, so it will be quicker on
all points of sail, and consequently one will have to reef the C&C
earlier . Combine the more refined hull shape and narrower entry and
deeper fin keel and the C&C will point higher. The Catalina 30 has
more room and was intended for family cruising.The C&C will be better
in the light airs of the Great Lakes because it was designed with
those charactoristics in mind. The Catalina is alittle heavier and has
a more gentle motion. It was/is constructed of cheaper materials and
there has to be more of them for a given structual stiffness, thus
the difference. From everything that I have read the C&C is better
constructed - with premium hardware . The Catalina comes with budget
equipment. that is not to say one can't improve or upgrade. Check out
the past issue of Sailing as they have a good article on the value of
the Catalina 30.
Andrew Burton
Colin&Catherine wrote:
>
> C&C 30 is 2000 lbs. lighter than the Cat 30, so it will be quicker on
> all points of sail, and consequently one will have to reef the C&C
> earlier .
moment, righting moment is a function of the ballast displacement ratio
and the form stability of the hull. The C&C is a much stiffer boat than
the Catalina, that means it will stand up much straighter than the Cat.
However because of the difference in displacement, you can reef the C&C
earlier and still get the same performance.
>The Catalina is alittle heavier and has
> a more gentle motion.
motion, no hint of pounding, etc. because of the V sections fwd.
You may have guessed from my comments where my inclinations are.
Happy Sailing
Andrew Burton
ga...@pacintl.com
Sean Holland
In a previous article, fish...@netcom.com (Paul Kamen) says:
>A strong vote for the C&C (maybe because I have a lot more experience
>with the Catalina...)
I would second Paul's vote, with a statement that these boats are in a
whole different class, the C&C not only cost more, but was intended for a
much different buyer than the Catalina. It is definitly a quality boat.
Good Sailing,
Sean
--
Sean Holland
NP2AU
S/V Spindrift
Nokandolah
How about a Tartan 30? Better quality than either a C&C
or a Catalina. I have sailed mine from Newport, RI to Bermuda
twice with no problem and it is ready to go again. It's for sale for
only $15,999. Automac charger, hot pressure water, auto-pilot, roller
furling, new dodger, etc. Interested? E-mail for details.
cw...@interlog.com (Colin&Catherine) wrote:
>C&C 30 is 2000 lbs. lighter than the Cat 30, so it will be quicker on
>all points of sail, and consequently one will have to reef the C&C
r.m.jones
The C&C is a higher quality yacht with more pleasant lines. Faster,
tougher, better.
Patrick Mathews
Andrew Burton wrote:
>
> Colin&Catherine wrote:
> >
> > C&C 30 is 2000 lbs. lighter than the Cat 30, so it will be quicker on
> > all points of sail, and consequently one will have to reef the C&C
> > earlier .
> moment, righting moment is a function of the ballast displacement ratio
> and the form stability of the hull. The C&C is a much stiffer boat than
> the Catalina, that means it will stand up much straighter than the Cat.
> However because of the difference in displacement, you can reef the C&C
> earlier and still get the same performance.
> > a more gentle motion.
> motion, no hint of pounding, etc. because of the V sections fwd.
> You may have guessed from my comments where my inclinations are.
>
> Happy Sailing
> Andrew Burton
I looked a long time before buying and for me, it came down to value. I
know someone in this thread mentioned not seeing very many older
Catalina around, that may be true in the upper midwest, but on the west
coast, it it probably the most common boat around (one other reason I
bought it). I is much more roomier and very easy to sail. I mostly
sail along the coast or to local islands. I'm sure that in some ways
the C&C structure is more sound, however, I'm not going to sail accross
the Pacific in either of these boats.
Several things to note about Cat 30s of the 1980 vintage:
1. Beware the engines on catalinas of this vintage. If it is a 2
cylinder raw water cooled engine - KEEP LOOKING!! These engines have a
defective inspection plate that will break, causing sea water to mix
with the oil. Besides, they are only 11HP - way to small for a 30'
10500lbs boat.
2. Mast step leakage. This is a deck steped mast, and over a period of
15 years, they may leak. This can be observed by looking at the deck
where the mast meets it. If the mast appears to be sinking into the
deck - you will need to restep the mast.
Happy sailing - and boat shopping
Patrick Mathews