Maine Passage
Bruce in Bangkok
You know? I find this thread very strange as it consists mainly of one
individual sailing down east and a multitude of others sitting at home
snipping at him.
Certainly Skip is a new sailor, but so what? He is still afloat and
sailing. In fact it sounds like he is having a ball. I wonder how many
of the "Perfect Sailors" who spend their time sniping can truly say
that they have made ocean voyages and never made a mistake or done any
thing that was stupid in retrospect? Probably none, if they don't lie.
I'm not going to preach that everyone should stop sniping but while
you are sitting there posting your rants try to remember, Skip is out
there sailing and you are sitting at home, so who is the Cruiser and
who is the fool?
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
Roger Long
Their incredible roster of deficiencies is primarily a function of their
openess, complete reporting, and the dynamics of this newsgroup. I doubt
that many now experienced long distance cruisers did as well on their first
long passage.
I'm tracking their progress and ETA closely as I plan to go out and meet
them. I think they might have finally relented and set the iron genny since
they are suddenly on a rumb line for Portland at 5.2 knots and I can't see
anything in the buoy reports to account for it. It would be a wise use of
diesel fuel since they are predicting rain and low visibility tomorrow. Of
course, that could be just about any day in the last 30. I haven't spoken
to anyone recently who claims to remember a worse summer in this part of the
world.
--
Roger Long
Roger Long
straight towards Portland which would put them right in the ship traffic
lane and following it during the early morning hours when everyone on the
water is least attentive. Instead, they will go just past the beginning of
the southern lane and then come up to the Portland approaches about dawn
right between the two lanes. It's about the best they do to minimize the
chances of a traffic encounter. It looks like Skip is thinking pretty
clearly after several days short handed at sea.
--
Roger Long
Bob
<decypher_signat...@signature.line> wrote:
> You know? I find this thread very strange as it consists mainly of one
> individual sailing down east and a multitude of others sitting at home
> snipping at him.
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
Hello Bruce:
If a guy goes into a crowed dive bar and whips out his winnie,
waggles it at everbody and yells........." HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT MY
WINNIE! " Ya might expect to get a little feed back.
When Skip blabs on with his dear diary logs in a place like this ya
might expect his word to be:
1) suported
2) criticized
3) ignored
4) questioned for aditoinal information
5) ______
Bob
Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
>Bob
Actually, I'd give your post a bit more credence if you were posting
it through SailMail but you are posting through:
Cellco Partnership DBA Verizon Wireless
OrgID: CLLC
Address: 180 Washington Valley Road
City: Bedminster
StateProv: NJ
PostalCode: 07039
Country: US
In other words you are sitting home and writing this while Skip is out
on the briny sailing.
To quote Teddy Roosevelt:
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere
critic. The man who actually does the work, even if roughly and
imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought
to be done."
Which pretty well expresses it all.
Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
There is an old saying, supposedly about sailing on Chesapeake Bay:
"There are sailors who have been aground, there are sailors that are
going to go aground, and Damned Liars"
I suggest that everyone who has done any sailing to amount to anything
has made mistakes, and learned from them. People who have never made a
mistake are probably lying.
Thus, Skip is right there with the rest of us. Except he is out there
doing it and the nay sayers are sitting at home.
Wayne.B
wrote:
>Their incredible roster of deficiencies is primarily a function of their
>openess, complete reporting, and the dynamics of this newsgroup. I doubt
>that many now experienced long distance cruisers did as well on their first
>long passage.
Some truth to that, however I continue to be concerned with the
unnecessary risks that have been taken. Given enough chances Murphy
and his laws will always catch up with you in some unfortunate way.
When you are crossing oceans there is no alternative but to cruise
around the clock for many days at a time. Learning to deal with the
sleep deprivation and fatigue is part of the game, not so with coastal
cruising. Bad judgement can start creeping up on you after an
extended time offshore.
Vic Smith
<decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>
>Thus, Skip is right there with the rest of us. Except he is out there
>doing it and the nay sayers are sitting at home.
>
Maybe because they aren't prepared yet. Gotta be ready.
Can't have anything go wrong. Must be shipshape.
Just not quite ready. Few things to take care of first.
Won't be long. Have to be patient. Why take any chances?
Could lead to disaster. Or even embarrassment.
Must be a good sailor, so want all just right.
Anything less would be lubberly.
Now, my legs are just right on the ottoman.
Gimme another beer. And turn on the light - it's getting dark.
No sense I risk tripping on the dog when walking to bed.
That could be embarrassing if somebody found out.
--Vic
Ernest Scribbler
> Bad judgement can start creeping up on you after an
> extended time offshore.
Seems to hit some of us like a ton of bricks after a few minutes on
usenet...
Bruce in Bangkok
Yup. to quote Frank Hill, a 78 year old Australian mate of mine, "you
can spend your whole damned life getting ready to go. Or you can just
GO!"
Apparently Skip listened to the latter part of the quote.
Roger Long
> When you are crossing oceans there is no alternative but to cruise
> around the clock for many days at a time. Learning to deal with the
> sleep deprivation and fatigue is part of the game, not so with coastal
> cruising. Bad judgement can start creeping up on you after an
> extended time offshore.
>
But, the only way to learn to deal with those things is to do them. I urged
them to take on some extra hands for the trip and even located some
candidates that I knew but the elected to try it alone. This was very much
a training cruise for them and not a bad route actually. Far enough out to
experience all the conditions of an ocean passage but not so far as to not
have options if problems arose.
When I was flying, there was a constant tension between being conservative
and safe and gaining the experience to be ready for conditions that can come
up almost any time. The latter often required going out and doing things I
wouldn't want to make a habit of. I think this has been invaluable for them
and a lot less risky than things I see people doing all the time within
sight of land. The track they are following into the harbor now shows the
judgement I would expect of a very seasoned navigator even after a long
shorthanded trip.
I'll be headed out to meet them in a couple hours.
--
Roger Long
cavelamb himself
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:30:13 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
> <decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:26:57 -0500, Vic Smith
>><thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:07:54 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
>>><decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thus, Skip is right there with the rest of us. Except he is out there
>>>>doing it and the nay sayers are sitting at home.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe because they aren't prepared yet. Gotta be ready.
>>>Can't have anything go wrong. Must be shipshape.
>>>Just not quite ready. Few things to take care of first.
>>>Won't be long. Have to be patient. Why take any chances?
>>>Could lead to disaster. Or even embarrassment.
>>>Must be a good sailor, so want all just right.
>>>Anything less would be lubberly.
>>>Now, my legs are just right on the ottoman.
>>>Gimme another beer. And turn on the light - it's getting dark.
>>>No sense I risk tripping on the dog when walking to bed.
>>>That could be embarrassing if somebody found out.
>>>
>>>--Vic
>>
>>Yup. to quote Frank Hill, a 78 year old Australian mate of mine, "you
>>can spend your whole damned life getting ready to go. Or you can just
>>GO!"
>>
>>Apparently Skip listened to the latter part of the quote.
>>
>
>
> It's the story of a man who constantly puts obstacles in his own path to
> sabotage himself. He does not want success. He delayed this trip in every way
> possible, until he could delay it no longer, and then continued to try and cut
> it short, even to the point of creating the setting for a shipwreck to try and
> end it.
>
> I forget how many years he wrote about the search for "the perfect boat". He set
> unrealistic goals for this imaginary craft, so he hopefully wouldn't find one.
> Once he found the perfect boat and that excuse no longer washed, he spent many
> years refitting "the perfect boat" to make it more perfect. People commented
> upon the endless boat search and the endless refit that followed.
>
> The man may have a goal, but it has nothing to do with sailing. Some people with
> a similar goal, jump in front of trains.
>
>
>
>
It's called "Life", dog.
As is "Having One".
--
Richard
(remove the X to email)
Roger Long
--
Roger Long
Bruce in Bangkok
>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:30:13 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
><decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:26:57 -0500, Vic Smith
>><thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:07:54 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
>>><decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thus, Skip is right there with the rest of us. Except he is out there
>>>>doing it and the nay sayers are sitting at home.
>>>>
>>>Maybe because they aren't prepared yet. Gotta be ready.
>>>Can't have anything go wrong. Must be shipshape.
>>>Just not quite ready. Few things to take care of first.
>>>Won't be long. Have to be patient. Why take any chances?
>>>Could lead to disaster. Or even embarrassment.
>>>Must be a good sailor, so want all just right.
>>>Anything less would be lubberly.
>>>Now, my legs are just right on the ottoman.
>>>Gimme another beer. And turn on the light - it's getting dark.
>>>No sense I risk tripping on the dog when walking to bed.
>>>That could be embarrassing if somebody found out.
>>>
>>>--Vic
>>
>>Yup. to quote Frank Hill, a 78 year old Australian mate of mine, "you
>>can spend your whole damned life getting ready to go. Or you can just
>>GO!"
>>
>>Apparently Skip listened to the latter part of the quote.
>>
>
>Clearly you are not familiar with the Skip Gundlach story from the beginning.
>It's the story of a man who constantly puts obstacles in his own path to
>sabotage himself. He does not want success. He delayed this trip in every way
>possible, until he could delay it no longer, and then continued to try and cut
>it short, even to the point of creating the setting for a shipwreck to try and
>end it.
>
>I forget how many years he wrote about the search for "the perfect boat". He set
>unrealistic goals for this imaginary craft, so he hopefully wouldn't find one.
>Once he found the perfect boat and that excuse no longer washed, he spent many
>years refitting "the perfect boat" to make it more perfect. People commented
>upon the endless boat search and the endless refit that followed.
>
>The man may have a goal, but it has nothing to do with sailing. Some people with
>a similar goal, jump in front of trains.
I am superficially familiar with Skip's odyssey although I admit that
I viewed him as a rather unexperienced individual who was searching
for a "dream boat" not realizing that there is no such thing (as soon
as you find the perfect vessel you realize that if the dumafletchit
was a little further aft it would be better) but I've heard even more
unlikely dreams voiced by others.
Live and learn, I thought. And, that is exactly what he has done. I'm
sure that his vision of a dream boat has changed a bit from what it
was several years ago, but so has mine, and probably everyone else
that ever owned a boat, wife, car, house, or dog.
But, Skip is out there living his dream and the rest of the group
seems to be sitting on their collective ass' and rambling on about how
he "should be doing it" forgetting that he IS doing it.
I don't remember whether you are on the East coast or West coast (or
Kansas) but get your butt out on the water and send up some SailMail
about Skip. Don't just sit at home and chuck spears at him. You'll be
a lot more credible.
I'm sure that you will have some disparaging comments to make about
this post but I really don't care a bit. Go sail somewhere and post an
honest report of how many times you made a small error in judgement,or
a big one for that matter, and I'll be a bit more inclined to listen.
Or, just tell us that you've never made a mistake.
Goofball_star_dot_etal
>On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:07:32 -0400, "Roger Long" <Str...@maine.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>How far did you sail in the last 10 days?
>
>
>A false and foolish yardstick, Roger. Do you work part time as an
>advisor to Carl Rove?
>
No it isn't! You will probably find that Roger has not been out for 9
days.
Thomas, Spring Point Light
"Roger Long" <Str...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:g7bsb4$fjj$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Yo Captain Roger .. is the good ship Skip/Lydia coming in today Aug . 6,
2008?
I'm bummed... if it were tomorrow I could go out with you and meet the old
sea dog.
I have my fancy, got it at a yard sale, flies behind the Big A kite.. and my
just purchased
at another yard sale cheap flag ... .. and who knows what else..
If Skip gets delayed... I'm heading out tomorrow anyway .. so I will do the
welcome to S
Portland, here is your rain suit thing..
As for all the talk of arm chair sailors... I have been sailing all summer
in the Casco/to Boothbay/NH
region .. and the weather has SUCKED... So, the sailing has not been the
best.. but I am out there,
by myself .. with my Annapolis Book of Sailing in one hand and the sheet in
the other .....
Put the rail under the other day,, albeit for only a moment,, but the rail
set right at the water line for
a long reach from Sequin to R N 2Q Bell ... Close hauled.. rail down...
all the way.... by myself
YES
Maybe Skip and Captain Lydia will be delayed... the weather is awful..
Tell them to wait until
tomorrow.. then we can go out and give them a real welcome..
Maybe pass the word to the Centerboard/PYC/DeMillo's/ .. this could be the
big event of the summer.
I will even play my yard sale trumpet.. I am good at Anchor's Away.
hahahah
Bruce in Bangkok
>On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:07:32 -0400, "Roger Long" <Str...@maine.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>How far did you sail in the last 10 days?
>
>
>A false and foolish yardstick, Roger. Do you work part time as an
>advisor to Carl Rove?
>
>And please learn to reply properly, with at least enough of the post
>you reply to quoted to give your reply some sort of context. I had to
>go back and see where your post was in the thread or I would have not
>known you were addressing me, or why you were asking the asinine
>question. Your post without context is jibberish.
>
I suppose that changing the subject is one way of avoiding an answer
that might show you in less then heroic light.
But tell us - how far HAVe you sailed in the past 10 days?
Bruce in Bangkok
>You need to get your compass swung. You are WAAAAY off course.
>
Lovely answer. cuts right to the heart of the matter. Some people go
sailing and some people sit home and snipe.
Edgar
"Bruce in Bangkok" <decypher_...@signature.line> wrote in message
news:q74j94lu8di05j3at...@4ax.com...
<snipped>
> Live and learn, I thought. And, that is exactly what he has done. I'm
> sure that his vision of a dream boat has changed a bit from what it
> was several years ago, but so has mine, and probably everyone else
> that ever owned a boat, wife, car, house, or dog.
>
> But, Skip is out there living his dream and the rest of the group
> seems to be sitting on their collective ass' and rambling on about how
> he "should be doing it" forgetting that he IS doing it.
<more snippage>
I agree with nearly all your post, Bruce, but I suggest you never let your
wife see that bit about _owning- a wife.
I would never dare....
Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
One usually mentions little vignettes like this in the heat of a
marital debate on who takes the garbage out, or other important
subject. Whereupon one is reminded of the statement in any future
conflict until the end of time.
Capt. JG
It's like when one dated one's future wife... you chase her until she
catches you.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
Vic Smith
<decypher_...@signature.line> wrote:
>One usually mentions little vignettes like this in the heat of a
>marital debate on who takes the garbage out, or other important
>subject. Whereupon one is reminded of the statement in any future
>conflict until the end of time.
>
That is what contained me when tempers flared.
After learning how it works, of course.
"If I say this, will I hear about it until I'm dead?"
After a bit of practice, you don't even think it.
--Vic
Roger Long
>
>>How far did you sail in the last 10 days?
>
yardstick.
--
Roger Long
sa...@dog.com
wrote:
><sa...@dog.com> wrote
It would still be silly and meaningless in the context of the thread.
What does what I did in the past 10 days have to do with anything?
Roger Long
--
Roger Long
Vic Smith
wrote:
>Did anyone else not get my point?
Sure, and weren't they a couple hundred miles offshore most of the
voyage?
Quite a trip, really. How many miles is that?
--Vic
Roger Long
--
Roger Long
cavelamb himself
>>
>>As is "Having One".
>
>
>
>
I - actually we - are looking forward to it.
Have you ever thought about what you would do when off watch and
not sleeping?
Skip writes.
Bruce in Bangkok
I suspect it is one of the rites of passage in growing up. Learning
what is safe to say to the woman in your life. "Do these pants make my
butt look fat?' "Uh, did you see that Robin on that guy's lawn?"
Bruce in Bangkok
The context was that some people cruised and some people sat home and
sniped.
tsm...@gmail.com
Sucks, I'm a big fan of Skip & co. but I think your challenge is
purely bogus. I don't want to take anything away from Skip at all.
He has lots to say, I enjoy reading his stuff and it's clear to me
that he's having a good time. What more could a reader of rbc want?
But, what's so special about passages made in the last 10 days? Does
that mean I don't get cred for making an offshore passage over more
than twice as many miles this season? None for passages of seasons
past? And whats so special about passage making? It has its joys but
to me the real cruising starts when you've finished the passage and
gotten someplace new and exciting. Discussions around here would be
pretty thin if corespondents had to complete some arbitrarily long
passage before they could post.
-- Tom.
Roger Long
<"Sucks" which I am sure from the context was meant to be "Sure".
Sure, the "10 days" was poor writing and distracting to the point I was
trying to make but, how much time do you think I spent dashing these posts
off? It was a purely retorical comment and a bit wide of the mark I was
trying to make.
There are two ways to respond the abundance of information S&L provide about
their cruises and mistakes. One is specific discussions of strategy, what
to do, what not to do, etc. that these accounts bring up. The other, which
is much more prominent here, is the "S&L are dangerous idiots who have no
business sailing." The fact that the latter generally comes from posters
who clearly are not cruising at all or are just puttering about locally in
trailer sailer class boats I find annoying.
S&L are on a learning curve and will be for the rest of their cruising days.
I made mistakes on my last cruise, the one before that, the one before that,
and .... I'll make mistakes on my next cruise. I've watched an Unlimited
Master of everything, no licenses left to sit for, nearly put his ship
aground (I was on it). Every experienced cruiser sailing once made a
passage with no prior passage making experience in command and every time
you cast off the lines there is the opportunity to learn something.
I'm not trying to make a point or judgement here about S&L actually but
about the nature of discussion which would be more useful and interesting to
read.
--
Roger Long
sa...@dog.com
wrote:
><tsm...@gmail.com> wrote
But here's the issue, Roger. We all make mistakes. However Skip, like
yourself, has an ego that won't let him benefit from his experiences,
or those of others. He revels in his ineptness, and rationalizes his
blunders, rather than being humbled by them. That may be why you feel
such empathy for him, and are so dismissive of criticisms and the hard
won experience of others.
The rest of us, understand that everyone makes mistakes, but Skip
needs to change his over-riding attitude about them if he wants to be
a better sailor. So far, he's been a kid, who when told not to stick a
knife in the toaster, grabs a fork, instead. You can follow a kid
around and tell him no at every turn, or you can try and teach him to
do a better job at deciding what is a good idea and what is a bad
idea.
I criticize Skip in the hope that at some point the light will go on
over his head, and he will realize that thinking ahead, and using
better judgement may lead to fewer problems, and help mitigate
problems that do happen anyway. Nobody can anticipate everything that
may happen, but it's a good idea to do it as much as possible. Skip
does too many things that show a complete lack of foresight or caring.
Sailing is somewhat akin to chess. You succeed by anticipation of all
the possible places you may be several moves from now.
Roger Long
> However Skip, like yourself, has an ego that won't let him benefit from
> his experiences, or those of others.
Now, how could you possibly know that? Especially in the case of myself who
has posted far less of my experiences here. That's where your otherwise
excellent observation that everyone makes mistakes (although it usually
*sounds* as if you and others don't) goes off the track.
Why, just the other day I learned that, if you are in very familiar waters
where navigation doesn't seem like a real issue, you can look down at your
GPS, see the asterisks you expect to be there, and turn left. Oops. The
GPS was zoomed way too far in and there was still one asterisk off the
screen. Bump. You really think I didn't learn something from that?
During my years of observing aviation human factors (where they are far more
critical), I noticed that such assumptions about others are generally
accompanied by dangerous arrogance about ones self. I don't know that that
is true about you individually but it is statistically probable. Why don't
you focus on specifics that would be useful and instructive discussion
instead of jumping to general value judgements about others that just appear
self-serving.
--
Roger Long
sa...@dog.com
wrote:
><sa...@dog.com> wrote
>
>> However Skip, like yourself, has an ego that won't let him benefit from
>> his experiences, or those of others.
>
>Now, how could you possibly know that?
Based entirely on the aggregate of his postings... And your own.
This is Usenet, Roger. I don't know your innermost feelings or demons.
All I know is what you post. That's what I draw from. If you have more
information about why you do the things you do, and the way you do
them, that you would like me to take into consideration when forming
my opinions, please post it. Same for Skip.
You post some bizarre assumptions about me, that don't even correlate
to anything I post.
Bob
> I'm not trying to make a point or judgement here about S&L actually but
> about the nature of discussion which would be more useful and interesting to
> read.
> Roger Long
Roger here ya go again trying to make this place in your immage.......
Give it up. I like it just the way it is so who will prevail?
Bob
Bob
> <sa...@dog.com> wrote
>
> > However Skip, like yourself, has an ego that won't let him benefit from
> > his experiences, or those of others.
>
> Now, how could you possibly know that? Especially in the case of myself who
> has posted far less of my experiences here.
> Roger Long
My dear roger,
A writers words are extreamly revealing. To get a flavor of what is
possible I recomend starting with one of the most basic concepts
availible: Binjamin Worf and Ed Sapair's theory of linguistic
relitivity. An anthropologist and linguist teamed up in the 1930s to
study the Hopi indians. One descovery was:
Language Reflects Culture
Language Affects Culture
In other words we all live in a language that forms our view of the
world at a very fundamental level. The traditial textbook example is
the number of single words used by "Eskimo"to describe snow. Well over
113 singel words are used to describe snow while we are hard pressed
to list a ten. Assumption.... snow is a pretty important thing to
Northern lat natives and less to us. So we can say that language is a
window alowing us to understand a culture.
Next the flip side is also true. That is, if we are raised in a
language it will structure how we see/view the world. A simple example
of this is spanish compared to english. they have gendered words La
Messa El Torro, El Libro while we have few. Assumption....... for the
child raised in a heavily gendered language they will grow up seeing
the world (people) as genders who must comply to gender roles very
closly.... can you say MACHO.
The interesting thing assumtion with all this if we change the
language can we change a culture????????????
Hummm,
FIRE MAN = FIRE FIGHTER
POLICE MAN = POLICE OFFICER
FISHER MAN = ANGLER
Ya ever wonder why the us gov changed job titles????????? Just think
Worf - Sapier :)
NOw, what the fuck does that have to do with us here?
Everything. every word you chose, and how you nit it together screams
who you are and what you belive. A simple count of referencing to
authorties and accomplishments or the simple number of times you make
a reference to your self... You have to remember that that the Worf
Sapier Hypothysis was develdoped in the 1930s a robust field of
Rhetorial Anlysis tools have develped since.
Be careful................. be very carful..........
That will be $200 please.
Bob
sa...@dog.com
>On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 07:36:37 -0700 (PDT), Bob <frey...@yahoo.com> said:
>
>>
>>The interesting thing assumtion with all this if we change the
>>language can we change a culture
>
>"Interesting thing assumtion?" Is that Eskimo?
Are you re-reading Cheaper By The Dozen, Dave?
sa...@dog.com
>On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:14:33 -0400, sa...@dog.com said:
>
>>>
>>>"Interesting thing assumtion?" Is that Eskimo?
>>
>>Are you re-reading Cheaper By The Dozen, Dave?
>
>Never read it in the first place, so I'm missing your allusion.
The main character used to say something was "Eskimo" if it wasn't
quite kosher.
tsm...@gmail.com
> <tsmw...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> <"Sucks" ...
I meant to type "shucks". One reason I don't type long posts like S&L
is that I'm illiterate. Probably the same reason that the point of
your initial post flew over my head. Actually, I'm still struggling a
bit with your argument. I don't see how it follows that now that S&L
have managed to get from one place to another and that they are still
on a "learning curve" that they should be immune from negative
feedback on their posts. I don't even see why they should be immune
from folks who only cruise around in their home waters. I don't need
Joyce to tell me I can't write. Anybody who can read is qualified to
make that observation. To be sure, Skip's sailing skills are superior
to my writing skills, but I still think that when he posts here and
folks say (with more or less tact) "don't quit your day job" that they
have every right to do so no matter how they sail. Their criticism is
valid or not based on the facts (some of which only Skip is privy to)
not on some arbitrary rite of passage.
-- Tom.
Roger Long
>Roger here ya go again trying to make this place in your immage.......
>Give it up. I like it just the way it is so who will prevail?
No, just being ornery and griping. I've been assured on excellent authority
that that is an acceptable activity around here.
Some people gripe by saying, "You're a dufus." I gripe by saying, "You
would be less of a dufus if you posted something worthwhile."
Why is one better or worse than the other?
--
Roger Long
Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:
>The fact that the latter generally comes from posters
>who clearly are not cruising at all or are just puttering about locally in
>trailer sailer class boats I find annoying.
You got me there..
Roger Long
here.
Criticism: (Example)
Jackstay posted that the squall was so hard that he had to winch in on his
roller furling Genoa line. That's a good way to break a furling gear. A
key to living happily with roller furling is to reef before the strains get
that great.
Judgment:
Jackstay's post proves that he is a total dufus who has no business going to
sea.
The former is always welcome and there is, indeed, no reason why the
responder needs to have more sea miles or experience that the OP.
The latter is all too common here and I find it especially irritating coming
from those for sitting home typing such stuff clearly takes precedence over
actual cruising. I believe a rigorous analysis would show that greater
experience correlates with a greater tendancy to respond in the critical
rather than the judgemental mode.
--
Roger Long
Thomas, Spring Point Light
"Roger Long" <Str...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:g7fk2k$45i$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Jackstay, forestay, backstay .. all I want to know is when the weather will
change ..
Roger,, tell me the sun is coming out soon.. before the summer is over.
Please? I'm begging you ..
sa...@dog.com
wrote:
>Perhaps we could use a little more clarity in language than I've been using
Yeah, but you are the head dufus.
Roger Long
--
Roger Long
Capt. JG
news:g7fnj0$6og$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> Well, I'm glad we got that position clarified.
>
> --
> Roger Long
>
Ummm... I don't think it needed clarification! LOL
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
tsm...@gmail.com
...
> Criticism:...
> Judgment: ...
> The former is always welcome and there is, indeed, no reason why the
> responder needs to have more sea miles or experience that the OP.
...
Good. You had me confused with the non-stop miles in the last 10 days
thing. I gather that it was actually code for "slander is ugly and
unhelpful." Fair enough and an axiom of mine. Just to be clear, I'm
not against judgment as I know the term, I just find it offensive when
it is unconsidered or sinks to the level of simple name calling.
-- Tom.
Jere Lull
<decypher_...@signature.line> said:
> There is an old saying, supposedly about sailing on Chesapeake Bay:
> "There are sailors who have been aground, there are sailors that are
> going to go aground, and Damned Liars"
More usually these days, it's shortened to "those who have gone aground
and liars".
I have our depth alarm set at 5.5' so it doesn't annoy me so much.
Every once in a while, our knotmeter reads higher than the depth
sounder.
> I suggest that everyone who has done any sailing to amount to anything
> has made mistakes, and learned from them. People who have never made a
> mistake are probably lying.
Hell, any day I'm out and don't make some small mistake or have
something break, I'm astounded. Have to repair a sail from last
Monday's trip home. On the way out on Friday, the GPS went out, so was
soldering for an hour or so. And something went weird with the bilge
pump -- not sure what finally fixed that.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
Jere Lull
> How far did you sail in the last 10 days?
Dang, Roger...
Could you include some of who you're responding to?
In the meantime, for us it was a quiet long weekend, only about 70-80 nm.
Jere Lull
<w...@needs.email.anyhow> said:
> No it isn't! You will probably find that Roger has not been out for 9
> days.
As it happens, we have independent confirmation that he sailed out and
escorted Flying Pig into the harbor, then got them some fuel.
Jere Lull
> The interesting thing assumtion with all this if we change the
> language can we change a culture????????????
I'd say it's more an observation than an assumption.
Extreme cases would be the various cults who demonstrably create new
world-views by their coining or re-definition of words, but we see it
in everyday life.
But what did that have to do with the conversation to hand?
Justin C
> About 1000 miles in 8-9 days.
In my book that's a voyage... an adventure even.
Justin.
--
Justin C, by the sea.