Do Ships Founder or Flounder?

[icediver]

I recently read Bonnie Dahl's book Superior Way, in which she
describes ships floundering at sea, then sinking, such as the
Madeira, near Split Rock Lighthouse. I recommend her book
highly to anyone cruising Lake Superior, but doesn't she mean
to say founder, not flounder?

[Steve]

Your are correct. Your author should get a Webster.

The term is 'founder'= to sink below the surface of the water or to come to
grief or become disabled. (of the latin fundus derivative).

(damn, Webster was smart).

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

[Brian Whatcott]

Flounder - to stagger or plunge
Founder - to fill up with water and sink, or to break.
(COD)

Brian Whatcott
Altus, OK
Eureka!

[Dave Moorman]

In article <3cd49276...@snews.intellisys.net>,
in...@intellisys.net (Brian Whatcott) wrote:

The NODE includes as an adjective for "founder": "He was floundering
about in the shallow offshore waters."

So both words can be used in relation to ships. Founder means to sink,
basically, and flounder means to be doing not so well in the water. I
supposed floundering sometimes precedes foundering.

Dave

--
Dave Moorman
Downers Grove,
Illinois USA

Some men dream of fortunes, others dream of cookies.

[Dave Moorman]

In article <dmoorman4-660E4...@netnews.attbi.com>,
Dave Moorman <dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote:

> The NODE includes as an adjective for "founder": "He was floundering
> about in the shallow offshore waters."

That should be "example", not "adjective".

[Bernard W. Joseph]

Dave Moorman <dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in news:dmoorman4-
660E41.222...@netnews.attbi.com:

I agree with Dave. The ship floundered before it foundered.

--
Bernard W. Joseph http://www.appliedgrammar.com
"Even our behavior and emotions seem to have been shaped by a prankster."
-- Nesse & Williams, p5, Why We Get Sick, Times Books, NY, 1995

[Richard]

Actually, the act of "floundering" is a verb in this sentence, since it is
an action which something is engaged in. It is an example of the verb, "to
flounder"

R

Whos says usenet is a wasteland?

<snip>

"Dave Moorman" <dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in message
news:dmoorman4-BE4C3...@netnews.attbi.com...

[Adam]

"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
news:ud952e6...@corp.supernews.com...

Nah, you don't know shit!
>

[Steve]

I based my reply on Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary.

Since this is an open forum, so we would like to know your definition of the
words.

Steve

[Don R.]

On 4 May 2002 18:52:44 -0700, iced...@chorus.net (icediver) wrote:

Ships founder; Flounder swim.

[Eric Simandl]

And speaking of floundering, two dependent clauses do not a sentence
make.

Steve wrote:

> Since this is an open forum, so we would like to know your definition of the
> words.
>
> Steve

--
Negaunee, Michigan

Founded: 1873
Elevation: 1375
Population: 4041
TOTAL: 7289

[Armond Perretta]

"Eric Simandl" <sim...@sprintmail.com> wrote ...

> Steve wrote:
>
> > Since this is an open forum, so we would like to know your definition of
> > the words.
>
> And speaking of floundering, two dependent clauses do not a sentence
> make.

And speaking of correcting another person's grammar, which we tend to frown
on around here, Steve did not write 2 dependent clauses, Eric. The
construction

" ... so we would like to know your definition of the words"

is in fact an independent clause. You may not like the way it is written,
and you may feel an insatiable urge to shout out corrections, but there is
little need to chastise Steve's construction. I am pretty sure he doesn't
care very much about your opinion anyway.

If you are interested in this type of thing, why not post to
"alt.usage.english" and try your luck there? I have been posting there for
many years and I am sure you will find the subject matter sufficiently
challenging. However I do not think you will find "a.u.e" quite so
forgiving as we are here, or as forgiving as some of your gambling buddies.

Warmest regards,

Armond

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

[Steve]

Yah! What ever Armond said.!!

Besides I know I don't have good Grammar. She be dead for near on to 40
years.

My comments had to do with the question of the correct usage of a word. I
may have been asleep in High School English class, but I eventually learned
how to look things up in Webster. I believe my answer was correct.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

[Dave Moorman]

In article <dmoorman4-BE4C3...@netnews.attbi.com>,
Dave Moorman <dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote:

> In article <dmoorman4-660E4...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Dave Moorman <dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote:
>
> > The NODE includes as an adjective for "founder": "He was floundering
> > about in the shallow offshore waters."
>
> That should be "example", not "adjective".
>
> Dave

And it should be an example for "flounder", not "founder".

[Dave Moorman]

In article <3cd5faf4_1@anonymous>, Anonymous <Nobody> wrote:

> In article <dmoorman4-660E4...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> dmoo...@NOSPAMattbi.com says...

> >
> >
> >So both words can be used in relation to ships. Founder means to sink,
> >basically, and flounder means to be doing not so well in the water. I
> >supposed floundering sometimes precedes foundering.
>

> Not really. People flounder about, ships founder. Floundering may be
> followed by drowning. A ship may wallow, surge, yaw, heel,
> capsize, swamp followed by foundering, which I take to mean a gradual
> overcoming of the vessel by wind and sea. Did the Titanic founder or just
> plain sink?

Ships can flounder, according to the New Oxford Dictionary of English.
But maybe only in the British Isles.

[Steve]

My Webster can whip your Oxford a$$ any day of the week!!

Shssssh! You would think those Brits invented this language.

Steve