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Bronze - braze, solder, silver solder ??

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palmperson

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Mar 21, 2002, 2:50:00 PM3/21/02
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I want to change a part of my rudder stuffing box - it's proper Wilcox
Crittenden bronze. What's the best joining method for 2 bronze pieces
in salt water - braze, hi lead or hi tin solder, silver solder ?

Steve

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Mar 21, 2002, 3:19:44 PM3/21/02
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Silversolder is the best and easiest to accomplish.

That the method of choice on all bronze/CuNi shipboard saltwater systems.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


BD (Dave) Thompson

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Mar 21, 2002, 5:21:54 PM3/21/02
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"palmperson" <palmp...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c9a38b1...@news.mminternet.com...

> I want to change a part of my rudder stuffing box - it's proper Wilcox
> Crittenden bronze. What's the best joining method for 2 bronze pieces
> in salt water - braze, hi lead or hi tin solder, silver solder ?

From the chart below, it appears that silver solder is your best choice.

Dave

GALVANIC SERIES OF COMMONLY USED METALS WHEN EXPOSED TO SEA WATER

ACTIVE OR LEAST NOBLE
Magnesium
Magnesium Alloys
Zinc
Galvanized Steel

Aluminum 1100

Aluminum 6053
Alcad

Cadmium

Aluminum 2024 (4.5 Cu, 1.5 Mg 0.6 Mn)

Mild Steel
Wrought Iron
Cast Iron

13% Chromium Stainless Steel
Type 410 (Active)
18-8 Stainless Steel
Type 304 (Active)
18-12-3 Stainless Steel
Type 316 (Active)

Lead-Tin Solders
Lead
Tin

Manganese Bronze
Naval Brass

Nickel (Active)
76 Ni - 16 Cr - 7 Fe Alloy (Active)

60 Ni - 30 Mo - 6 Fe - 1 Mn

Yellow Brass
Admiralty Brass
Aluminum Brass
Red Brass
Copper
Silicon Bronze

70:30 Cupro Nickel
G-Bronze
M-Bronze
Silver Solder
Nickel (Passive)
76 Ni - 16 Cr - 7 Fe Alloy (Passive)
67 Ni - 33 Cu Alloy (Monel)

13% Chromium Stainless Steel
Type 410 (Passive)
Titanium

18-8 Stainless Steel
Type 304 (Passive)
18-12-3 Stainless Steel
Type 316 (Passive)

Silver

Graphite
Gold
Platinum
PASSIVE OR MORE NOBLE


Brian Whatcott

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Mar 21, 2002, 6:18:28 PM3/21/02
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:50:00 GMT, palmp...@msn.com (palmperson)
wrote:

>I want to change a part of my rudder stuffing box - it's proper Wilcox
>Crittenden bronze. What's the best joining method for 2 bronze pieces
>in salt water - braze, hi lead or hi tin solder, silver solder ?

Bronze weld, I guess to minimize electrolytic effects.


Brian Whatcott
Altus, OK
Eureka!

Richard

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Mar 21, 2002, 6:48:32 PM3/21/02
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Agreed, silver solder with a GOOD brand of silver solder. Check, and
compare the amount of silver in the mix. . . dunno what's exactly right for
you, Wilcox could tell ya'. I'd ask em.

R

<snip>

"palmperson" <palmp...@msn.com> wrote in message
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ron ginger

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Mar 21, 2002, 9:01:52 PM3/21/02
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Richard wrote:
>
> Agreed, silver solder with a GOOD brand of silver solder. Check, and
> compare the amount of silver in the mix. . . dunno what's exactly right for
> you, Wilcox could tell ya'. I'd ask em.
>

Be very sure you get real silver solder, not the 5% silver BEARING stuff
sold in hardware stores. Real silver solder melts in the range of 1200
deg, the 5% stuff melts about 400 deg. It is not even a close
substitute.

What is known as sliver solder really ought to be called silver brazing.

ron

Tom Dacon

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Mar 21, 2002, 7:55:31 PM3/21/02
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Bronze welds really well. Use silicon bronze rod.

Tom Dacon

"palmperson" <palmp...@msn.com> wrote in message
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Steve

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Mar 21, 2002, 7:59:34 PM3/21/02
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If your going to do it yourself, then you need a oxygen/acetelene (or
oxygen/propane) torch and stop by the welding supply house and get some
silver solder flux. If the part are non-ferous to non-ferous then you want
grade #3 silver solder. If it's ferous to non-ferous then you want grade #4.

If your talking about welding something to your packing box or rudder
bearing housing, then you will need plenty of heat. A ordinary propane torch
just won't give you enough heat to get the silver solder to flow into the
joint.

As in any soldering/welding job, "cleanlyness is next to godlyness". Even a
finger print will keep the solder from flowing properly.

If you going to hire it done, then your weld shop will know what to use.

--
My experience (40+ yr pipefitter/welder) and opinion, FWIW.

Steve
S/V Good Intentions


Richard

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Mar 22, 2002, 10:46:02 AM3/22/02
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I know, after I put that up, I realized he might want to braze it with an
identical metal. Ideally, he'd want a recast. I was thinking of a field
repair, he may have been thinking of a redesign. Hard to advise folks at
this distance. . . which is a pretty good reason to stop doing it.

My bad.

R

<snip>

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Gordon

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Mar 22, 2002, 12:44:40 PM3/22/02
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"Tom Dacon" <T...@dacons.com> wrote in message news:<7ivm8.166$xm2.63...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
Woodenboat had an article a few years back on fabricating bronze
hardware with lots of good info and pictures on technique and
materials for joining bronze. I don't know the issue number but the
woodenboat website has an online index. Good luck.

Dennis Couch

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Mar 23, 2002, 10:29:26 AM3/23/02
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You might ring up your local HVAC supplier & inquire about a tough silver
solder that goes by the trade name of "Silflos".

It requires a great deal of heat to braze but might do the trick... strong
as hell!


Dennis


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