Groko K head jamming
Tom Baker
Our Groko K heads have both jammed whenever we try to flush ANY toilet
paper. The paper jams along the piston and you have to take the entire head
apart to free it up. Is this a common experience?
Peggie Hall
It shouldn't be...the Groco Model K is a very high end toilet--over
$500 list. How long has it been since you rebuilt either head...if
ever?
I'm gonna use your question as a jumping off point to post an article I
wrote for publication elsewhere called "Flush With Success" as a second
reply. It should provide the answers you need, as well as the answers
to a bunch of other questions it never occurs to most people to ask. If
it doesn't, holler...
Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
Peggie Hall
Before most of us had reached the ripe old age of three, we thought our
"potty training" was finished...then we grew up and bought boats. Would
you believe that most equipment failures in marine sanitation systems
happen because most people don’t know how flush them? It never occurs to
most boat owners that the toilet at home and the toilet on the boat have
absolutely NOTHING in common...that the toilet at home is nothing more
than a bowl, a flush water reservoir, and a lever to pull the plug in
the reservoir...but a marine toilet is a working piece of machinery that
doesn't do anything unless it's working. So they stop pumping, or
pushing the button, or they release the pedal the second the bowl is
empty. Bits of paper and solids get trapped in the pump, and/or
macerator, and discharge line, build up, and lead to a clog.
Urine--which is FAR more corrosive than salt--rusts the system, cutting
the life expectancy of any metal pumps and macerators in half...and then
the owners proclaim loudly to anyone who'll listen that the brand is "a
piece of junk." As for preventive maintenance, when it comes to toilets,
the idea has never entered their minds..."fix what breaks" is all that's
ever occurred to 'em.
So we'll start with how to flush a marine toilet properly, then we'll
discuss preventive maintenance.
FLUSHING 101
A manual marine toilet has two settings: "flush," which alternates
bringing flush water in with pushing it down the discharge, and "dry,"
which only pushes the contents out of the bowl and on down the line to
its destination. Find out how many pumpstrokes it takes to push the bowl
contents all the way to its destination—holding tank, MSD, or the
through-hull (when at sea)—and religiously pump it that many times plus
two or three more to rinse the hose. Nothing left in in the system means
nothing to build up and clog the system...AND no standing sewage in the
discharge hose means less likelihood of the hose becoming permeated with
odor.
"But I don’t want to fill up my holding tank with flush water!" you cry.
When holding tank space is at a premium, the default setting for the
head should always be "dry." After urination only, pump the bowl
contents all the way to the tank, then turn the lever or knob to "flush"
for only two or three pumpstrokes to rinse behind it, and back to "dry"
to send that all the way to the tank. Since no manual head is designed
to hold water, put a cupful or two (as much as you think appropriate) of
water from the sink in the head before depositing solids and more than a
sheet or two of paper--then follow the same procedure. Not only will you
extend the life of your head and hoses, you'll more than double the
apparent capacity of your holding tank.
If your toilet is an electric macerating toilet, it's absolutely
necessary that you keep your finger on the button for a minimum of 3
full seconds after urination, and at least 10 seconds after solids.
Unfortunately, the same water conservation methods described above can't
be applied to macerating electric toilets; they burn out unless the full
amount of water called for in the specs goes through them.
When flushing a VacuFlush, DON'T just "pop" the pedal--whooosh, it's
gone--and back up. That pedal also starts the flush water...leave it
down for a full 3 seconds to rinse the bowl contents out of the
system...then let the pedal snap back up. It's spring loaded for
reason: letting it snap insures that the dome in the bowl seals
completely.
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
NEVER put anything into a marine sanitation system that isn’t
specifically marketed for that purpose. Do not use detergent, bleach,
dish soap or other cleaners--especially cleaning products which contain
pine oil, petroleum, or alcohol. Those substances will break down the
seals, gaskets, and valves in the system, and will also break down the
walls of the hose, causing it to be more susceptible to permeation. And
please--do not ever pour vegetable oil down the head to "lubricate" the
pump; it's not a wok! Besides, you don't lubricate engine or anything
else on the boat with vegetable oil--why would you put it in your head?
It all washes out in a few flushes, and an oil slick on the surface
in your holding tank will only seal the contents of the tank, keeping
air out of it, which creates the anaerobic environment that odor-causing
bacteria just LOVE! It will also combine with the animal fats present in
sewage to "gum up" your tank level indicator or the electrodes in your
Lectra/San. Only follow manufacturers’ recommendations for periodic
head maintenance and lubrication.
At least once every two years, put a complete rebuild kit in your head
as part of your regular spring recommissioning; if you lay your boat up
every winter, we recommend doing it every year. When seals, gaskets,
valves and impellers aren't used, they dry out they become brittle and
prone to crack. By replacing them regularly you all but eliminate the
possibility that you’ll ever have to make emergency repairs to the
head--and we all know those emergencies only happen at the WORST
possible times--and you control the conditions under which you’ll take
the head apart: when it's dry and clean. Although it’s impossible to
predict someone putting something in the head that’s too large to pass
through, a well-sealed pump that’s working to factory specifications can
often push a borderline object through that a worn system can’t.
Although some boat owners follow the rule, "nothing goes into the head
that hasn’t been eaten first," marine toilet paper is made to virtually
dissolve in your hand. (BTW...the cheapest "no-name" single-ply paper at
the grocery store is the same thing as "marine" toilet paper, and it’s a
whole lot cheaper!) Just don’t put anything else in the head.
Follow these simple rules, and you'll always flush with success!
No More Mr. Nice Guy!
Tom, Ever seen those signs.... Please do not put anything in the head unles
it has has eaten first. There is a reason for that and it has to do with
most peoples extreme distaste for having to fix a blocked head or hose.
Nasty, Nasty Nasty. It sounds gross and it is sort of but we NEVER put TP
down the head. I think it is THE biggest cause of clogged marine toilets. I
mean look at the size of the hoses etc. So our solution is to put the "used"
TP in the lined, covered trash container and spray with deodorizer. That way
you can use great big handfulls w/o worrying about plugging up the head!
Tom Baker wrote in message <6gtog0$i33$2...@brokaw.wa.com>...
Peggie Hall
No More Mr. Nice Guy! wrote:
>
>... we NEVER put TP
> down the head. I think it is THE biggest cause of clogged marine toilets.
diameter than the 2" pipe coming out of a toilet on land (in the
US)...not enough difference to affect a marine toilet's ability to
handle toilet paper.
The two main reasons marine toilets clog is because a) most people stop
pumping as soon as the bowl is empty, which is leaves paper and solids
are in the pump...and b) never do ANY preventive maintenance.
When you stop pumping, whatever is in the system stops moving...if you
don't push it all the way through every time, sooner or later the system
can't help but clog. Seals, valves and gaskets wear out...the pump loses
"oomph"...y'all can either replace them every couple of years in the
spring when the head is dry and clean, or deal with clogs and blame 'em
on everything from toilet paper to solids to "brand A is a piece of
junk."
Because premium toilet papers like Charmin, Northern, White Cloud,
etc--are loaded with creams for softness and reinforced with extra
fibers for strength, it's not a good idea to use them in a marine
sanitation system--they CAN clog up a macerator and they take forever to
dissolve in a holding tank, but there's NO reason why a marine toilet
that's working to specs, and is flushed completely shouldn't be able to
handle a reasonable amount of "marine-grade" toilet paper (the
made-from-recycled, almost-dissolves-in-your-hand kind that you can buy
at the supermarket for half the price of the same thing labeled
"marine").
Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
So our solution is to put the "used"
No More Mr. Nice Guy!
Peggy, OK If I haven't been flushing enough how much is enough? Another
thing we do is use fresh water while at the dock. It keeps that "river" odor
out of the hoses.
Peggie Hall wrote in message <6gvr06$o...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Peggie Hall
No More Mr. Nice Guy! wrote:
>
> Peggy, OK If I haven't been flushing enough how much is enough?
Till the bowl contents come out the other end of the hose into the
holding tank, treatment device or the thru-hull. Finding out how
many pump strokes that takes requires a little homework: put one person
at the head counting pump strokes and another at the other end to yell
"it's here!" Since the human arm doesn't pump exactly as hard every
time, do it 4 or 5 times to determine the maximum number of strokes it
takes...then religiously pump the head that many times every time it's
used.
I just posted all this and more yesterday under the heading "Flush With
Success"... If you can't pull it back up, or don't want to dig it out of
Deja News, the answers to more questions than it ever occurs to most
boat owners to ask about the laws, equipment, installation and odor are
in our booklet "Marine Sanitation: Fact vs. Folklore" which you can
download and print (it's free) from
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/phall.htm
It's information only, not sales literature...And I'm always glad to
answer any questions it doesn't answer.
Dawn & Tom
I posted the origional message and yes, I have pumped more than enough
times, over 10 pumps wet and 10 pumps to empty bowl dry (each and every
time). Lets keep the problem to a mechanical issue and not a pumping
technique issue. I am asking the NG if anyone else with a Groko K had
jamming problems when TP was tried to be flushed in the head. I have owned
may boats and many different types of heads but I have had to repair both
Gorko K units in only one year due to jammed TP. Each time a jam happened a
few sheets and not a whole wad was pumped.
--
Dawn & Tom
S/V Hylas 44 "Warm Rain"
Seattle
Peggie Hall wrote in message <6h0jms$i...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Anders Svensson
If you think the problem is specific to Groco K and toilet paper, start
looking at those two components and see what you find. Flushing
sufficiently and using the correct kind of paper is certainly good advice
to start with.
A specific suggestion : If paper sticks to the piston side, there may be
too much clearance and possibly the piston or the bore is worn. Also, the
qualty of the paper could be "wrong", and by using a slightly stronger (so
it still keeps togeter) or a softer/thinner/simpler (so it dissolves even
faster) can be investigated.
Is the problem still there or did it go awy after you serviced the toilet ?
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
Dawn & Tom <cool...@halcyon.com> skrev i inlägg
<6h1gch$o80$1...@brokaw.wa.com>...
Peggie Hall
Dawn & Tom wrote:
> Lets keep the problem to a mechanical issue and not a pumping
> technique issue. I am asking the NG if anyone else with a Groko K had
> jamming problems when TP was tried to be flushed in the head. I have owned
> may boats and many different types of heads but I have had to repair both
> Gorko K units in only one year due to jammed TP. Each time a jam happened a
> few sheets and not a whole wad was pumped.
The answer to your question is: if you aren't using "premium" toilet
paper, it shouldn't happen. It is happening for one or both of
two reasons: not enough water is going through it to wash it out,
or the pump is losing the "oomph" it needs to wash it out...or both.
While Groco heads are excellent--and the Model K is top of their
line--they're a bit more temperamental than others...they work best when
rebuilt annually, especially in climates requiring winter layup. If you
have a strainer on the intake line, it may need more frequent
cleaning...an inline odor device may be restricting the water flow...or
if you're in shallow waters (the Chesapeake, for instance) that are
full of animal and vegetable marine lifey ou may be gradually
creating a partial blockage in the intake line or in the channel in the
rim. When it's happened, have you investigated the system beyond just
what you have to do to clean out the the pump itself?
Peggie
Peggie Hall
Anders Svensson wrote:
>
> A specific suggestion : If paper sticks to the piston side, there may be
> too much clearance and possibly the piston or the bore is worn.
Since it's happening to two toilets that are only a year old, that
doesn't seem likely.
Also, the
> qualty of the paper could be "wrong", and by using a slightly stronger (so
> it still keeps togeter) or a softer/thinner/simpler (so it dissolves even
> faster) can be investigated.
I definitely would NOT use a stronger toilet paper--that would clog even
more...and I'm assuming he's not using any of the premium brands. If he
his, that's at least half the problem.
Peggie
> Is the problem still there or did it go awy after you serviced the toilet ?
>
> --
> Anders Svensson
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Dawn & Tom <cool...@halcyon.com> skrev i inlägg
> <6h1gch$o80$1...@brokaw.wa.com>...
> > I posted the origional message and yes, I have pumped more than enough
> > times, over 10 pumps wet and 10 pumps to empty bowl dry (each and every
> > time). Lets keep the problem to a mechanical issue and not a pumping
Whilden S. Parker
Peggie Hall wrote:
> THANKS PEGGIE. YOU ALWAYS PROVIDE US WITH USEFUL INFORMATION. I
> INTEND TO POST THIS IN THE HEAD ON MY BOAT.
THANKS AGAIN.WILL
"JAMBALAYA"
> Before most of us had reached the ripe old age of three, we thought
> our
> "potty training" was finished...then we grew up and bought boats.
> Would
> you believe that most equipment failures in marine sanitation systems
> ...but a marine toilet is a working piece of machinery that
> doesn't do anything unless it's working.
> we'll
> discuss preventive maintenance.
>
> FLUSHING 101
> PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
> NEVER put anything into a marine sanitation system that isn’t
> specifically marketed for that purpose.
>
>
edgar cove
In article <3534D4DA...@flinet.com>, Whilden S. Parker
<whil...@flinet.com> writes
>Peggie Hall wrote:
>> FLUSHING 101
>> PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
>> NEVER put anything into a marine sanitation system that isn’t
>> specifically marketed for that purpose.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peggie Hall/Peal Products
>> Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
I always thought that the basic rule was "Never put anything into a
marine toilet unless you have previously eaten it"
--
edgar-(remove nospam from return address for e-mail)
Armond Perretta
>edgar cove wrote: ... I always thought that the basic rule was "Never put
anything into a marine toilet unless you have previously eaten it"
This is good advice in in areas where cannibalism is not practiced. In
areas where it is, biodegradable toilet tissue is a popular gift
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
Peggie Hall
edgar cove wrote:
>
> In article <3534D4DA...@flinet.com>, Whilden S. Parker
> <whil...@flinet.com> writes
> >Peggie Hall wrote:
> >> FLUSHING 101
> >> NEVER put anything into a marine sanitation system that isn’t
> >> specifically marketed for that purpose.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Peggie Hall/Peal Products
> >> Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
>
> marine toilet unless you have previously eaten it"
One more example of the folkore that gives our booklet it's name...:-)
HOWEVER..it's not a bad rule to follow when you have a boatload of
landlubber guests aboard who are even more clueless about how a marine
head works than most boat owners are. They have a hard enough time just
understanding "flush" vs "dry"...it's FAR more effort than it's worth to
try to explain why Kleenex isn't the same thing as marine-grade toilet
paper or expect 'em to make value judgments. Far better just to put a
diaper pail in the head for the duration of the outing and tell 'em they
can't put ANYthing down the toilet.
Peggie
Peggie
Dawn & Tom
Paper used was marine TP bought at good old West Marine. One Groko K came
with the boat so may be 1989 vintage that I put a full rebuild kit into.
Second Groko K was bought one year ago as a rebuilt unit. I have received
another response from someone who also has maintained their Groko K but has
also had it jam with a minimum of TP. Soo...it looks like I cannot treat
this beast like any other marine head I have owned. Either no TP or find
another model when I happen to have a spare $1000 for two new heads..yeah
right.
--
Dawn & Tom
S/V Hylas 44 "Warm Rain"
Seattle
Peggie Hall wrote in message <6h2gio$b...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Peggie Hall
Dawn & Tom wrote:
>
> Paper used was marine TP bought at good old West Marine. One Groko K came
> with the boat so may be 1989 vintage that I put a full rebuild kit into.
Aha--the plot thickens...could be that it needs a new pump shaft
cylinder. Sand or just dried out seals can score it, causing it not to
seal as tightly as it needs to...heavy use can wear it out of round in 9
years. A PITA, but a lot cheaper than a whole new head.
> Second Groko K was bought one year ago as a rebuilt unit.
"Rebuilt" to what extent? Could be the same problem as the other one if
it's even close to 10 years old.
I think it's time you had a chat with Groco...'cuz there is NO reason
why a Model K that's functioning to specs shouldn't be able to handle a
reasonable amount of "marine grade" toilet paper. Give 'em a call at
410-712-4242. You may even want to live with putting TP in a "diaper
pail" for the rest of this season and then pull the heads out and send
them back to Groco for diagnosis and replacement of whatever parts they
need. Those heads are too expensive to just chuck...
Peggie
rado...@ibm.net
Peggie Hall wrote in message <6gu62r$8...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
And
>please--do not ever pour vegetable oil down the head to "lubricate" the
>pump; it's not a wok! Besides, you don't lubricate engine or anything
>else on the boat with vegetable oil--why would you put it in your head?
>It all washes out in a few flushes, and an oil slick on the surface
>in your holding tank will only seal the contents of the tank, keeping
>air out of it, which creates the anaerobic environment that odor-causing
>bacteria just LOVE! It will also combine with the animal fats present in
>sewage to "gum up" your tank level indicator or the electrodes in your
>Lectra/San. Only follow manufacturers’ recommendations for periodic
>head maintenance and lubrication.
If I DON'T put vegetable oil in the heads every week or two, my Raritan
heads start squeaking and sticking, even while we religiously follow the
'pump it out of the boat' routine. The problem appears to be buildup on the
pump cylinder walls, and without the periodic lubrication, the piston seal
fails and I'm stuck with a full rebuild. We actually use the salad dressing
formula--half oil and half vinegar, and we let it sit overnight to also
disolve the crystals. My experience has been that we can go a full year
(liveaboard) between rebuilds with the periodic treatment and only 3-4
months without.
Of course, unlike a few posters on this NG, I have an open mind, and would
like to hear what kind of lubrication might work better. However, if the
manufacturer's cure is anything like their concept of selling me a 'rebuild
kit' which contains the two or three parts which I need plus a lot of
useless plastic for $30-40, I'll stick with the oil & vinegar.
Don Radcliffe
s/v Klondike
Peggie Hall
rado...@ibm.net wrote
> If I DON'T put vegetable oil in the heads every week or two, my Raritan
> heads start squeaking and sticking, even while we religiously follow the
> 'pump it out of the boat' routine. The problem appears to be buildup on the
> pump cylinder walls,
Which the oil is is adding to--give the mineral crystals something to
bond to.
You have a couple of better options: The Raritan Toilet Water Kit--a
reservoir that you fill with water and Raritan Concentrate--siphons a
little of the mixture with each flush...Raritan Concentrate contains a
lubricant. Or, take the pump apart once or twice a season and "grease"
it with Raritan SuperLube or SeaLube from WM. Both are non-water
soluble, and unlike salad oil won't be washed away with a couple of
flushes. Several of our customers swear by soaking the pump shaft seals
in machine oil overnight at the beginning of each season...they claim
the seals absorb enough oil to keep the system working at least half a
season. While petroleum based oils will degrade neoprene and rubber,
they don't suffer any more from it than they do by drying out all winter
during layup...so I consider the idea a wash with the typical lack of
preventive maintenance most heads receive.
The trouble with any of those ideas is that none of them turn the head
into a device you can ignore, as you can the one at home. But since
nothing on a boat is as ignorable as anything on land, I've never
understood why anyone--much less everyone--would expect the head to be
an exception. :-)
Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Specializing in marine toilet and plumbing systems since 1987
PrinceMyshkin
You know, Peggie, I have learned that when the topic of marine sanitation comes
up, as it does very often (boaters seem to be --- fixated?), I should skip all
the responses except the initial query and your response.
But you were missing from one thread. Out of town maybe? Had to do with a guy
and a bucket or something like that.
Peggie Hall
PrinceMyshkin wrote:
>
> You know, Peggie, I have learned that when the topic of marine sanitation comes
> up, as it does very often (boaters seem to be --- fixated?), I should skip all
> the responses except the initial query and your response.
Oh, I dunno...some of the responses include additional questions that
sometimes send me scampering for the right answer...some of 'em offer
some creative solutions too. I've never claimed to know ALL the
answers...I just know where to find the ones I don't have.
As for "fixated"...I don't think there's ANYthing more frustrating than
a toilet that either won't work, or never lets you--or anybody who comes
aboard--forget it's there. At home, it's a rare occurance...99.99999% of
the time it's something that's used and ignored...but on a boat, till
the owner FIANLLY grasps that he's not carrying just a toilet but a
complete sewage treatment/management system that has to be maintained,
the d'd thing is always "in your face"--sometimes literally. I can't
blame folks for being "fixated" on fixing the problem. Trouble is, most
of them can't disconnect it from the toilet at home in their minds, and
try to solve the problems the same way they'd deal with that one--i.e.
try fixes that will allow them to ignore it...and become even more
frustrated when they don't work.
> But you were missing from one thread. Out of town maybe? Had to do with a guy
> and a bucket or something like that.
Sometimes the better part of wisdom is silence..:-)
Peggie
Steve Weingart
One lubricant that I have found to work really well is called Magic Lube.
It's sold at pool supply stores and is specifically for seals & valves in the
pool environment where there is a lot of PVC/rubber/neoprene. It won't hurt
any of these materials. It's non-water soluable and sticky as all get out. I
use it to lube all of the gaskets, o-rings, & piston seals when I rebuild and
it hangs in there really well, the only thing that needs regular (constant)
re-lubrication is the pump shaft which is always a bit of a pain to keep free
and not leaking a bit...
We don't use the head a lot (mostly weekend daysailing these days), so it will
go one to 2 yrs between a full rebuild/relube.
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
Joe Engel
A small aside from those who may have the Raritan Crown electric heads.
I note that many of my fellow boaters with these same heads ignore the
refilling of the little side tank with water and the Raritan Concentrated
head chemical designed for this use. Too expensive, they say and to much
work and it really doesn't need it to work anyway. So we tried that....
Not a good move.
It appears that this stuff serves as the lube for the mechanisms, seals
etc., also a nice smellum and probably most noticable... it lubricates the
sides of the toilet bowl so that "stuff" slides down into the hole without
that rather nasty assistance that is sometimes necessary.
I like these Crown heads except for the fact they are so darn noisy when
flushed.
Peggie Hall wrote in message <6h688q$s...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Peggie Hall
Joe Engel wrote:
>
> A small aside from those who may have the Raritan Crown electric heads.
>
> I note that many of my fellow boaters with these same heads ignore the
> refilling of the little side tank with water and the Raritan Concentrated
> head chemical designed for this use. Too expensive, they say and to much
> work and it really doesn't need it to work anyway.
That's what they say about everything--rebuild kits are too
expensive...too much trouble to rebuild it...too much trouble to take
the pump apart and lubricate it...they'd rather play Russian Roulette
with a clog and then complain about it when it happens.
The Raritan Concentrate is a good product...but unfortunately the
quantenary amonium compounds in it are incompatible with biological
holding tank maintenance--the chemicals kill the bacteria needed to make
it work. Works great if you're discharging into a Lectra/San, though.
But no matter what you're using to lubricate the head, or what head you
have--they ALL need rebuilding every couple of years.
The Crown is an excellent toilet...the newer CD models are much quieter
than the older Standard and Deep Draft models. (Be sure you get the
right rebuild kit, BTW..."Standard" is a specific model, it's
not a "regular" kit as opposed to another kit.) They only have two
drawbacks: like all macerating electric toilets, they require 1-3
gallons per flush, which fills up a holding tank very fast. And they
draw 36 amps per flush, which makes 'em unsuitable for a lot of
sailboats.
Anyone who hasn't already done so (or wants to again) can download our
booklet "Marine Sanitation: Fact vs. Folklore" from
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/phall.htm
It's free...and just information about the laws, equipment etc...not a
sales pitch for anything.
Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
> It appears that this stuff serves as the lube for the mechanisms, seals
> >Peggie Hall/Peal Products
No More Mr. Nice Guy!
I know one thing for certain! I will never do the nasty job of rebuilding a
head when the rebuild kit costs half the price of a new head. That's one
reason I buy the inexpensive heads and just toss 'em out every two or three
years and buy a new one. Like I really want to dismantle a crap encrusted
pump assembly just to save 1/2 of a crap encrusted toilet! I got my newesr
head at West Marine on sale for $99.00. A rebuild kit is $40-50.00.
Joe Engel wrote in message <6h8hgc$n48$1...@news6.ispnews.com>...
>A small aside from those who may have the Raritan Crown electric heads.
>
>I note that many of my fellow boaters with these same heads ignore the
>refilling of the little side tank with water and the Raritan Concentrated
>head chemical designed for this use. Too expensive, they say and to much
>Not a good move.
>
Anders Svensson
The PAR toilet have a nice feature. The complete pump is available as a
service unit, not only the gaskets and valves. This is a "semi-low cost"
toilet where mine has done good duty for about 8 years, (with occasional
rebuilds).
Nobody likes these jobs.
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
No More Mr. Nice Guy! <can...@iu.net> skrev i inlägg
<Oq0_.425$qV1.2...@news1.atlantic.net>...
Peggie Hall
No More Mr. Nice Guy! wrote:
>
> I know one thing for certain! I will never do the nasty job of rebuilding a
> head when the rebuild kit costs half the price of a new head.
I've been waiting for someone to bring that up. There IS something to be
said for buying cheap heads and simply replacing them every couple of
years instead of rebuilding. However, ripping out a $500--or even more
expensive...the Wilcox Imperial is over $800--head to replace it with a
$100 toilet makes about as much sense as sending a Mercedes to the junk
yard and replacing it with a Yugo because 30,000 miles service for the
Mercedes costs half as much as the Yugo. So know what you're throwing
out!
The rebuild kit for a Groco HF (the $100 head--at discount) has a list
price of $41...so I couldn't really blame anyone for choosing to replace
instead of rebuild that one--but DO IT every couple of years...don't
wait till it clogs! OTOH, the rebuild kits for a Raritan PHII are $42
(list), while the head sells for about $250 at discount. The Groco model
K toilet has a list price of $661...the rebuild kit is about $85 (list).
Rebuilding isn't high anyone's list of fun ways to spend an
afternoon...but it beats the socks off of taking one apart when it's
clogged. If the head is completely flushed each time, and fresh water
is run through it as part of the "closing up the boat" routine each
time...and if the rebuild is done as part of spring recommissioning the
head SHOULD be dry and clean...'cuz that's how you SHOULD have left it
at the end of the season.
Peggie Hall/Peal Products
Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987
> That's one
> reason I buy the inexpensive heads and just toss 'em out every two or three
> >>Peggie Hall/Peal Products
John Lewis
Soak the piston seals in machine oil?
Buy expensive lubricants?
I have had a levac on my boat for ten years with no maintainance.
I mean zero, nada, silch. I trashed 3 of the heads like the
ones discussed in this thread in the 4 years before I bought the
levac.
Our boat gets heavy usage. Its been from San Francisco to
hawaii, to Mexico, to Brittish columbia and spent a couple of
years in the California Channel Islands. There have been 4
people using the levac most of the time.
When I read these stories about people fretting over fixes for
the PHII and similar designs I am reminded of the brotherhood of
MG car owners as they revel in their clever workarounds for a
basically crappy design.
The levac is simple, foolproof, and uses less water per flush
than any of the "flapper valve" toilets on the market.
Louise Coulson
On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:40:19 -0400, John Lewis
<75655...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>Soak the piston seals in machine oil?
>
>
>Buy expensive lubricants?
>
>
>I have had a levac on my boat for ten years with no maintainance.
> I mean zero, nada, silch. I trashed 3 of the heads like the
>ones discussed in this thread in the 4 years before I bought the
>levac.
..................... snipped
>
>
>The levac is simple, foolproof, and uses less water per flush
>than any of the "flapper valve" toilets on the market.
>
>
So glad to hear this -- we're live aboards so heads get a real work
out with us. We have trashed the same 3 or 4 heads you have -- after
rebuilding them on a yearly basis, and after a lot of research have
gone to the Levac and so far excellent!!!
Have you had to replace the seals on the ring and lid at all? I
wonder if we should keep extras aboard?
Thanks,
Louise
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Navigation Seminar ~ Boat Quiz ~ Boat Trivia
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Mark B Fay
Actually I have had excellent results just dumping 1/2 cup
of galley cooking oil in and flushing. I do it once a month.
Whenever I clean the strainer in the water intake, I fill it
with cooking oil and close it up. That gets all the things
before the bowl.
I am naturally refering to the liquid vegatable cooking oil.
--
Mark Fay
Home OS/2 Merlin User ISDN & BitSurfer Pro
S/V Enough Morgan 44 CC No. 1051223
Dave Pomerantz
Have you tried coating the inner walls of the pump with vaseline?
Peggie Hall
Dave Pomerantz wrote:
>
> Have you tried coating the inner walls of the pump with vaseline?
Bad idea...petroleum based products degrade neoprene and rubbers--which
is what seals and gaskets are made of. Doing that with a NON-petroleum
based lubricant is a good idea...but the trouble is, nobody's willing to
take the d'd thing apart a couple of times a season to do it...they'd
rather pour gallons of vegetable oil down it every season and complain
about clogs and odor.
Terry Palmer
I hear (from Peggy Hall) vegetable oil is a no-no.
Other sources tell me Johnson's Baby Oil is ok.
I switched.
--
Terry Palmer 10363...@compuserve.com
04/24/98 07:24
---------
Using: OUI 1.8 Pro from http://www.peaktopeak.com
Mark B Fay
I think I read Peggy Hall just the opposite. Baby oil
being a mineral oil is a no-no. Veg oil is ok, BUT, can cause
clogs or fu fu odor.
We live aboard but use the dockhouse toilet. However,
we flush it reqularly to stop odor. Additinally, I have rigged
fresh water to the toilet when we have shore water. So the
veg oil has not caused a problem for me to date.
Peggie Hall
Terry Palmer wrote:
>
> I hear (from Peggy Hall) vegetable oil is a no-no.
>
> Other sources tell me Johnson's Baby Oil is ok.
Nope...Pouring OIL down the toilet is a no-no...All you did was switch
from a cheap no-no to a VERY expensive one. And because baby oil is so
much lighter, it just washes out that much faster.
Peggie
John Howell
Why not use the correct product...
It not only cleans the loo...Head....but seems to work magic on the
diaphragms and valves.....especially on my SL 401..and leaves a sweet
smelling head for the next person as well as helping keep the odor
reduction action going in the holding tank if fitted..
I hate to admit to when the valves were last inspected but using this
product seems to have rejuvenated them ....maybe I should try some!!!
What is this product......Its called CP and you can get it in Boat US
and
West Marine......made by an outfit called Peal Products....better than
baby oil ....vegetable oil .....or engine oil...
At least you can get it easily......we limeys have to hand carry it back
after our forays to the US of A
Mark B Fay wrote:
>
> Terry Palmer wrote:
> >
> > I hear (from Peggy Hall) vegetable oil is a no-no.
> >
> > Other sources tell me Johnson's Baby Oil is ok.
> >
> > I switched.
> >
> > --
> > Terry Palmer 10363...@compuserve.com
> > 04/24/98 07:24
> > ---------
> > Using: OUI 1.8 Pro from http://www.peaktopeak.com
>
> I think I read Peggy Hall just the opposite. Baby oil
> being a mineral oil is a no-no. Veg oil is ok, BUT, can cause
> clogs or fu fu odor.
> We live aboard but use the dockhouse toilet. However,
> we flush it reqularly to stop odor. Additinally, I have rigged
> fresh water to the toilet when we have shore water. So the
> veg oil has not caused a problem for me to date.
> --
> Mark Fay
> Home OS/2 Merlin User ISDN & BitSurfer Pro
> S/V Enough Morgan 44 CC No. 1051223
--
John Howell Chaka of Birdham MFAX-7
GM4ZQH
Edinburgh Scotland
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