lectra/san help
Rex W
and unit shuts down after about 5 seconds. Unit worked fine, was not
used for a while (followed Raritan instructions for period of non
use), and now we can't seem to get it going again. Cleaned with
muriatic acid, tried plenty of table salt with no effect. Read one
post where someone took theirs apart and manually cleaned electrodes
which may be the only hope. Anybody have any ideas before we do that?
Thanks.
Peggie Hall
directions in owners manual (if you don't have an owners manual, you can
download and print one from the Raritan website at
http://www.raritaneng.com)--didn't cure the problem, neither will taking
it apart to clean it. It's a voltage issue. Don't do anything else
until you talk to Raritan tech support...800-352-5630 x 2.
Peggie
Doug Dotson
either low salt or low voltage is the problem. I checked the voltage
and no problem. What it turned out to be was low salt. My setup
has the automatic salt injection pump gizmo but the injection tube
into the treatment tank somehow got clogged with nasties. I cleared
the obstruction and manually pumped a fair amount of saltwater
into the tank, ran a cycle, everything OK. If you have a manual
salt tank, make sure it is working and injecting alot of salt solution.
Alternative, flush a bunch of salt into it through the bowl. During this
exersize I learned a bit about how the unit behaves (with the automatic
salt injector option that is). When treatment starts it monitors the
curent through the plates. If it is much below 40A it injects salt and
because of the way the mascerator works and the placement of the
injector, the current spikes quickly. It waits for the current to settle
down for
about 5 seconds or so and repeats the process as necessary unti the
curent settles at about 40A. If it tries to inject salt and the current
does
not spike within 5 seconds the it shuts down and blinks the red light.
I suspect on the manual salt system it will just shutdown if the current
does not get to 40A within a few seconds.
Cleaning the plates with muriatic acid would have been my next
step had it not started working.
Hope this helps.
Doug
mike
but in the end we had to replace the electrodes. It's a pretty easy job
once you get the unit out where you can work on it, and not too "messy"
if you flush the unit out thoroughly before you disassemble it. Cleaning
the electrodes would probably work if you were careful (sorry, but if
the acid treatment didn't work, I don't think there's any alternative),
but I figured if I was going to go through all the trouble of taking the
whole unit apart, I only wanted to do it once. We now use the muriatic
acid treatment every 6 months, and are hoping for years of trouble free
service (especially because of the price Raritan charges for the
electrode unit!)
-mike-
s/v Clay Mhor
Rex W
Peggie - if you're still there - we did talk to Raritan. They told us
we must not have shut it down correctly prior to period of nonuse. We
assured them we followed the manual (it's dogeared!). They criticized
us for trying the muriatic acid which we did according to directions -
said we must have done that too often over time and ruined the
electrodes. Their only solution was to use quantities of table salt
and try to get it going. We followed their directions regarding
amount of salt and it hasn't worked. That's why we're looking for
another solution to avoid cost of new electrodes or new unit. Thanks
for all of your help.
Peggie Hall
'em very long--and isn't still with 'em--'cuz what you're telling me
they told you sounds like BS--what's to "shut down correctly?" Unless
it's likely to freeze, you just flush plenty of fresh water through it
after you've run it a couple of times to make sure that all the waste in
it has been treated before it gets pushed overboard by the fresh water.
And as for "too many muriatic acid baths," people in in warm water have
to do it at least twice a year, if not more often.
Call 'em again at the 800# I gave you, and this time talk to Vic
Willman, who's the tech services manager. He definitely DOES know what
he's talking about.
Btw, I don't know where you are...but if you're cruising have moved in
VERY cold water, that would cause the problem you're having...cold water
doesn't have as much suspended salt as warm water. However, pouring salt
down the toilet or using a salt feed tank should solve that problem.
Call Vic...he'll know. In fact, you can even forward your NG post to
him...he answers e-mail.
Peggie
Peggie Hall
'em very long--and isn't still with 'em--'cuz what you're telling me
they told you sounds like BS--what's to "shut down correctly?" Unless
it's likely to freeze, you just flush plenty of fresh water through it
after you've run it a couple of times to make sure that all the waste in
it has been treated before it gets pushed overboard by the fresh water.
And as for "too many muriatic acid baths," people in in warm water have
to do it at least twice a year, if not more often.
Call 'em again at the 800# I gave you, and this time talk to Vic
Willman, who's the tech services manager. He definitely DOES know what
he's talking about.
Btw, I don't know where you are...but if you're cruising have moved in
VERY cold water, that would cause the problem you're having...cold water
doesn't have as much suspended salt as warm water. However, pouring salt
down the toilet or using a salt feed tank should solve that problem.
Call Vic...he'll know. In fact, you can even forward your NG post to
him...he answers e-mail. v...@raritaneng.com
Peggie
Peggie Hall
that kind of judgment about a company with which you've never done one
bit of business, and your snide implications are totally unfounded.
There's no company on the planet that bends over backward any further to
help customers than Raritan does...but customer service reps are just
people, and even the best companies can make a hiring mistake or be
forced to put someone who's only half trained into service when they're
slammed with more calls than they can handle otherwise. That's why I
told 'em to call Raritan again and talk to the tech services manager,
who'll give 'em the right information and treat 'em the Raritan TRIES to
treat all their customers.
You're very good at making judgments and pontificating (Lord knows you
get enough practice!), but what advice did you offer 'em that was
constructive?
Peggie
Karl Denninger wrote:
>
> Contrast this view towards "customer service" (blame and criticize the
> customer) with that of Bennett, which frequently sends out replacement parts
> (including entire trim pumps!) at no charge - even if the warranty is long
> since gone.
>
> THEIR attitude is "its not supposed to break. Have another one."
>
> Which attitude do you think is appropriate for a vendor?
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <7ee7fe36.01082...@posting.google.com>,
Rosalie B.
>Oh, get off it, Karl! You have no basis in fact or experience to make
>that kind of judgment about a company with which you've never done one
>bit of business, and your snide implications are totally unfounded.
>
>There's no company on the planet that bends over backward any further to
>help customers than Raritan does...but customer service reps are just
Peggy, we have done business with Raritan, and the customer service was
spotty at best.
I admire their product and your defense, but...
We had one toilet stopped operating at all (no churning, no lights, no
treatment), and we went through all the possibilities in the manual, and
then called (by cell phone from the boat which was then anchored in NC).
This was a brand new, just installed unit. The guy on the phone suggested
some possibilities. We tried them. Didn't work.
Fortunately we had two heads and one was working. Called back. They said
it must be the control card which required that we take the toilet apart
(not easy as it was jammed in under the sink). They said they would send a
new one, so we told them to mail it to our son in Charleston.
When we got to Charleston a week later, we mailed the presumably defective
part back. We called Wednesday as the replacement part had not come. They
said it had been sent, but they sounded a little disorganized on the phone
- at first they had no record of our call. They also refused to track
where the shipment was at this point and were kind of abrupt.
The computer card did not arrive. This was just before Thanksgiving, so we
called the Mon after Thanksgiving as they were closed Thurs and Friday.
They said the part had been sent, but it went to California by mistake. I
personally think they never sent it and someone was just CTA. They refused
to ship a replacement to us in SC without making a huge charge on our
credit card for overnight delivery (they were sort of nasty about it), so
we told them to ship it to our next destination, which was Miami.
After we got the part in Miami (It had arrived the next day, but we didn't
get there for 3 weeks), Bob installed the new card, but the toilet still
didn't work. He then changed the control cards between the two toilets,
and that was the problem. One of the little solder pieces had fallen off
the card.
They did make good on the repair at no cost to us, other than mailing
things to them. So we are pretty satisfied, but I think a couple of their
shipping/customer service people leave a bit to be desired.
grandma Rosalie
Doug Dotson
has been less-than-ideal. They seem to always treat you like
a total moron. Plus the guy I talked with didn't seem to have a
grasp in basic science like the concept of capilliary action. I
was able to convince them to allow me to return a part that
was obviously defective but it took some arm twisting and a
VISA card.
Yes, the muriatic acid treatment is hard on the plates and will
destroy them over time so overdoing the treatment is a risk.
I treat mine in the fall when decommissioning for the winter.
If you live-aboard and use it alot them more often will likely
be necessary. It might be instructive after a year of use to open
up the unit and inspect the build up on the plates to determine
if they actually need to be treated however often (I've never
done this either but it seems like a good idea).
Do you have an ammeter on your electrical system? And a
handheld voltmeter? When the unit first goes into the treatment
cycle, check if the current draw jumps up to around 40 amps.
If it doesn't then low salt, cruddy plates, or disintegrated plates
are probably the culprit. Do the exersize again with a voltmeter
connected across the main DC lines AT the LectraSan. They
should be pretty thick. When the unit goes into the treatment
cycle the voltage will drop. Observe what it is. Is this a fairly new
unit. I have seen one that had the connections to the plates corrode.
One mistake that people do (myself included once) is during the
winter decommissioning when doing the final draining for the winter,
removing the plug on the top of the crossover tower without draining
some of the water out of the tank first. Saltwater runs down the tower
and over the top of the unit. If this happens rince it with fresh
water. The connections to the plates will eventually corrode and it
motors won't stay happy for long either.
Hope this helps.
Doug
Doug Dotson
another one, and it never broke right? Only a few of them left.
Doug ;)
Karl Denninger wrote:
> Contrast this view towards "customer service" (blame and criticize the
> customer) with that of Bennett, which frequently sends out replacement parts
> (including entire trim pumps!) at no charge - even if the warranty is long
> since gone.
>
> THEIR attitude is "its not supposed to break. Have another one."
>
> Which attitude do you think is appropriate for a vendor?
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <7ee7fe36.01082...@posting.google.com>,
> Rex W <lila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Doug Dotson
to stand with Karl on this one. My treatment from Raritan
after spending over $1000 on their product was arrogant to
say the least. The unit malfunctioned and ran salt all over
the electronics. They finally replaced the board that initially
failed (twice) but I have twice had to dissassemble the entire the
electronics portion of the unit to clean corroded connections
and replace destroyed connectors due to residual salt from
the original incident that was undetected at the time. If
another company offered a product of the quality of the
LectaSan at a comprtative price at this point I would
certain entertain the idea of replacing the unit. I now have
heard of 2 others that have similar experiences with
Raritan and that bothers me. Karl is right, the customer
service personel ARE the company and their attitude
and skill reflect the quality of the company and especially
its management staff.
Doug
Karl Denninger wrote:
> In article <3B81D5C9...@bellsouth.net>,
> Peggie Hall <peg...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >Oh, get off it, Karl! You have no basis in fact or experience to make
> >that kind of judgment about a company with which you've never done one
> >bit of business, and your snide implications are totally unfounded.
>
> Sure I do. The first customer reported being treated as a bother, accused of
> not following the instructions, and was told that basically it was all his
> fault.
>
> And the second customer who ended up replacing the electrodes - I assume
> he did that at his own (considerable) expense.
>
> >There's no company on the planet that bends over backward any further to
> >help customers than Raritan does...
>
> Except in this instance.
>
> Or is this in these TWO instances? Seems that we have TWO people here who
> have had similar problems and one has already spent the bucks on replacing
> the electrodes - while the second is about to.
>
> (There isn't any other company who bends over further backward to help
> customers? Horseshit. Explain Bennett Marine's response - REPEATEDLY -
> when something goes wrong with one of their products. You can't, because
> you're wrong. They are THE gold standard in the marine business when it
> comes to customer service and a view that their products are supposed to
> just plain work - no excuses, no crap, no games and no argument.)
>
> Further, you are HARDLY a disinterested observer of this company!
>
> > but customer service reps are just
> >people, and even the best companies can make a hiring mistake or be
> >forced to put someone who's only half trained into service when they're
> >slammed with more calls than they can handle otherwise.
>
> Horseshit.
>
> NOBODY is ever FORCED to do any such thing, and if they do so ANYWAY its
> their fault REGARDLESS. Staffing decisions, including who to hire, what
> quality of person to hire, how much to pay them, how many hours to work
> them, and how much stress to put on them are ALL decisions that MANAGEMENT
> is privileged to make. The fruits of those decisions BELONG TO THE COMPANY
> and there is NO EXCUSE - *EVER* - for the consequences thereof.
>
> If you don't like that fact then get the hell out of the business management
> world and go punch a clock somewhere. I will NEVER give a firm a pass on
> this kind of shit, and I WILL, in every instance, go DIRECTLY over the head
> of someone who does this to me and DEMAND the issue be addressed, an apology
> be made and restitution, when appropriate, be provided. If I don't get an
> acceptable response to THAT I'm gone - I will NEVER come back - and I *WILL*
> tell everyone I meet about my experience.
>
> EVERY rep who picks up the phone and speaks the name of the firm is a
> reflection of that business. EVERY TIME. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. And customers
> are PERFECTLY within their rights to assume as such and draw conclusions
> based on those interactions.
>
> PERIOD!
>
> I used to run such a business. Every single rep who was on the phone
> was a reflection of the company and how it was operated. EVERY TIME.
>
> I'm not going to try to tell you that nobody ever did this to one of my
> customers (they did) but I can tell you that there is no way on God's green
> earth that such a person stayed employed beyond the point that I heard about
> it, and that it certainly reflected on the MANAGERS who were responsible for
> those people on the floor.
>
> Second, if someone was put on the phones either overstressed or otherwise
> not in a position to properly help customers, THAT TOO WAS A REFLECTION ON
> THE COMPANY AND ***ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT SOMETHING TO BE EXCUSED***. Quite to
> the contrary, it was something that I was, and SHOULD HAVE BEEN, criticized
> for resoundingly, because ultimately THE BUCK STOPPED ON MY DESK.
>
> That's the difference isn't it Peggy? SOME companies (and people) believe
> that there is NO excuse for poor service and poor behavior by
> representatives, and that the proper response is for executive management
> to step in IMMEDIATELY and PUBLICALLY if necessary.
>
> Others (you, perhaps?) believe that EXCUSES should be made when a
> company's rep does something like this.
>
> > That's why I
> >told 'em to call Raritan again and talk to the tech services manager,
> >who'll give 'em the right information and treat 'em the Raritan TRIES to
> >treat all their customers.
>
> He shouldn't have to call Raritan again.
>
> Raritan should call HIM. Or someone with some authority from Raritan should
> come in HERE and apologize.
>
> Here's an interesting counterpoint.
>
> Not long ago I saw, on a forum, someone complaining about getting the "stiff
> arm" treatment from a Bennett dealer on an out-of-warranty issue, and musing
> about how they weren't too happy about it, but given the fact that the pump
> was WAY out of warranty perhaps it was just one of those "oh well, they
> eventually break" kind of things.
>
> One of Bennett's senior guys took the time and trouble to:
>
> 1. Find out who the customer was and look them up HIMSELF.
> 2. Sent him out a NEW pump - at no cost.
> 3. Apologized for the crappy way he was treated.
>
> AND, I assume, took care of the internal problem.
>
> Even more important, I've seen at least a HALF DOZEN reports of unbelievably
> good treatment - unsolicited, without having to badger, bludgeon or threaten -
> by customers who have had problems with Bennett products of one sort or
> another. IN EVERY INSTANCE Bennett has taken the time and effort to simply
> solve the problem - by repairing or replacing the piece that broke. No
> hassle, no muss, no fuss, no bullship about warranties being expired or
> any nonsense like that. In one case it was reported that a person who
> complained about some kind of problem at a boat show had the replacement
> part sitting at his house when he got home a few days later - again,
> AT ZERO COST!
>
> Contrast this with TWO people reporting in here who have not had that kind
> of experience with the Lecra-San and Raritan.
>
> Your reflexive defense of Raritan is unwarranted. If you are no longer
> associated with them, then let them sink or swim on their own merits.
>
> If they find the way these TWO gentleman were treated to be inappropriate,
> let THEM come in HERE and apologize, ship out whatever the one guy needs to
> fix his unit *AT NO COST* AND REFUND THE OTHER GUYS MONEY HE SPENT and make
> the CUSTOMERS once again happy with their purchases.
>
> Then fix whatever internal policy issues they have so that in the future
> Raritan actually has the kind of policy that you claim they have.
>
> If, that is, their intent is to actually do that.
>
> Let RARITAN choose the Rolls-Royce policy if they want. But that call
> is THEIRS, and there is no defense of them you can mount or make that is
> relavent to the issue.
>
> I suspect if Raritan does THAT, those folks will come in here and post that
> Raritan not only took care of it, but they made him feel like a God. Fair
> enough if that is what happens, and if Raritan actually does that on a
> regular basis then they will earn the gold stars themselves.
>
> The key point here, however, is that in that situation they EARN those stars
> - they don't get "awarded" them by fiat or proclamation from the resident
> Deacon of Crap.
>
> Alternatively, Ms. Peggy "Sock Puppet" can come in here and pontificate about
> how "unfair" it is to draw parallels to one of the FEW businesses in the
> marine industry that DEMONSTRABLY doesn't fart around with their customers
> and takes the Rolls Royce position - "That thing simply is not supposed to
> break. Have another one with our apologies for the disruption in what
> should be flawless service from our products."
>
> I'm very tired of seeing marine companies treat customers like THEY are
> doing THEM a convenience by providing a working product or service. Its
> goddamn time that this crap stop and that we as customers for these
> products and services stop tolerating it.
>
> I will blast ANY business that pulls this shit, and WILL NOT SPEND ONE THIN
> DIME ON THEIR PRODUCTS because I'm tired of it and tired of living with it.
> Further, I know full well that ONLY the pressure of consumers telling a
> vendor to stuff their crappy service up their ass - and withdrawing their
> financial support - will be effective in reversing this all-too-common trend
> in this - and other - lines of business.
>
> >You're very good at making judgments and pontificating (Lord knows you
> >get enough practice!), but what advice did you offer 'em that was
> >constructive?
> >
> >Peggie
>
> Oh I think the example is quite constructive.
>
> And as a POTENTIAL customer of Raritan's for one of these units in MY boat,
> I'm very, very interested in this kind of bullship. Unlike MOST people
> I don't buy stuff like this without CAREFUL consideration of both the
> product AND the company that builds it.
>
> I'm ALSO very interested when someone like you comes in here and blasts back
> at me over a posting like this - because like it or not, I associate this
> kind of crap from YOU with THEM.
>
> Not that I truly suspect that you - or Raritan - cares about little old me
> and what I think.
>
> But if THAT is, in fact, the case then that would only serve to UNDERLINE
> the point I made in my previous post!
Peggie Hall
under the sink???? That's a VERY strange place for a toilet...how do you
use it???
No company is perfect, and you and Doug are only two people of thousands
who have Raritan products (Karl doesn't count...he condemns 'em for less
than perfection, but has never had any first hand experience with them).
There isn't a company on the planet who can claim 100% satisfaction
rate.
A large part of most dissatisfaction is the boat owner's fault, and
Rosie has just provided a good example of what can cause it: she refers
to what can only be a Lectra/San as a "toilet." Raritan also makes a
toilet that use a circuit board...it also "churns" (macerates) and has a
timed flush. It could take 20 minutes of conversation with a customer
service person just to know she isn't talking about that toilet at all,
but the Lectra/San...a separate treatment device. But if the CS person
hasn't figured that out by the time the conversation ends, she's got
trouble-shooting instructions that don't apply at all to her
problem...but when they don't work, guess who gets blamed for "rotten
customer service?"
Then there's the customer who tried to fix it himself, but didn't bother
to read the owner's manual first, and made things worse. When customer
service tells him what he did wrong that's gonna cost him twice as much
as it would have, he claims the company "blames the customer for its
mistakes."
Another cause is unrealistic expectations: a recent example (not Raritan
this time): part under warranty failed the week before the 4th of July,
which was on Wednesday this year (bummer...no long weekend). Boat owner
has a choice of either putting a replacement on his Visa, then shipping
back the defective part to have his card credited when they get it, or
sending the defective part back for exchange. He chooses to overnight
it--at mfrs expense, btw--to mfr on Friday...arrives at plant on Monday.
When the replacement doesn't arrive on Tuesday in time for him to get
the equipment up and running again on the 4th, he damns the mfr for
their lack of immediate attention to his problem. He's not unique...too
many people today expect the rest of the world to drop everything to
tend to them, forgetting that every time someone does, those in line
ahead of them are negatively impacted. That doesn't matter to some
people...they want what they want when they want it, and damn anyone who
doesn't give it to 'em. Unfortunately, those who are bit more civilized
often become victims of those who make enough noise to succeed...and
then THEY complain.
And finally, there are the people who hold everyone's feet to the fire
but their own. They're as imperfect as the rest of the world, but seldom
even acknowledge their own mistakes (when forced to, it's always someone
else's fault)...but let them even HEAR of a company that fail to meet
their high standards and that company "doesn't give a damn" or "their
products are a POS"... A company can have a 99% customer satisfaction
rate among thousands of customers, but let them hear a complaint from
one or two of the remaining 1% and they're ready condemn--"punish 'em
with your wallet!"--whether they've had any first hand experience with
that company or not. They'd have a lot more credibility if they had, and
also if they took the advice, "let he who is without sin cast the first
stone."
If anyone knows of a perfect company, with CS reps who are clairvoyant,
ALWAYS right, ALWAYS endlessly patient--even with idiots, can do the
work of 10 people without breaking a sweat, never lose an order or
mis-ship it, and can guarantee that UPS will never lose or break
anything eithe, who have 100% customer satisfaction rate, please let me
know, 'cuz I haven't found it yet. I just know who tries the hardest
among those with whom I do business and have done business.
Peggie
Keith
Karl Denninger wrote:
>
> In article <3B81D5C9...@bellsouth.net>,
> Peggie Hall <peg...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >Oh, get off it, Karl! You have no basis in fact or experience to make
> >that kind of judgment about a company with which you've never done one
> >bit of business, and your snide implications are totally unfounded.
>
> Sure I do. The first customer reported being treated as a bother, accused of
> not following the instructions, and was told that basically it was all his
> fault.
>
> And the second customer who ended up replacing the electrodes - I assume
> he did that at his own (considerable) expense.
>
> >There's no company on the planet that bends over backward any further to
> >help customers than Raritan does...
>
> Except in this instance.
>
> Or is this in these TWO instances? Seems that we have TWO people here who
> have had similar problems and one has already spent the bucks on replacing
> the electrodes - while the second is about to.
>
> (There isn't any other company who bends over further backward to help
> customers? Horseshit. Explain Bennett Marine's response - REPEATEDLY -
> when something goes wrong with one of their products. You can't, because
> you're wrong. They are THE gold standard in the marine business when it
> comes to customer service and a view that their products are supposed to
> just plain work - no excuses, no crap, no games and no argument.)
>
> Further, you are HARDLY a disinterested observer of this company!
>
> > but customer service reps are just
> >people, and even the best companies can make a hiring mistake or be
> >forced to put someone who's only half trained into service when they're
> >slammed with more calls than they can handle otherwise.
>
> > That's why I
> >told 'em to call Raritan again and talk to the tech services manager,
> >who'll give 'em the right information and treat 'em the Raritan TRIES to
> >treat all their customers.
>
> >You're very good at making judgments and pontificating (Lord knows you
> >get enough practice!), but what advice did you offer 'em that was
> >constructive?
> >
> >Peggie
>
> Oh I think the example is quite constructive.
>
> And as a POTENTIAL customer of Raritan's for one of these units in MY boat,
> I'm very, very interested in this kind of bullship. Unlike MOST people
> I don't buy stuff like this without CAREFUL consideration of both the
> product AND the company that builds it.
>
> I'm ALSO very interested when someone like you comes in here and blasts back
> at me over a posting like this - because like it or not, I associate this
> kind of crap from YOU with THEM.
>
> Not that I truly suspect that you - or Raritan - cares about little old me
> and what I think.
>
> But if THAT is, in fact, the case then that would only serve to UNDERLINE
> the point I made in my previous post!
>
--
__________________
Keith
Everybody should believe in something: I believe I'll have another
drink.
Doug Dotson
to was rude, initially refused to allow me to return a part for inspection
to determine the cause of the failure and made me pay the postage when I finally
convinced them that capilliary action is a real phenomenon and the failure
I described could have happened. I'm not saying that they did not make
good on their product. They sent me a new board and pump. (Incidently
the new board was DOA and convincing them of that took a while as well).
But they did credit my VISA card for everything except postage to them.
I accept that as reasonable but it should not have taken a condecending
attitude on the CS reps part, and ridicule from the engineers (the CS rep
said the engineers got a good laugh out of my problem description).
Incidently, if it takes 20 minutes for the CS rep to understand that Rosie
was talking about a LectraSan and not a head then I would say that the
CS rep is not quite trained yet. That is a pretty unrealistic scenario.
And the assumption that a device installed by a boat owner is somehow
inferior to one installed by a "professional" installer is totally bogus. I have
re-engineered 2 LectraSan installations that were so poorly installed by
"professionals" as to be unreliable. Point is that Raritan shouldn't assume
you are an idiot until you have had a chance to demonstrate you are one.
And even then they still have to somehow address your problem.
Now perhaps my experience was not the norm and maybe the CS rep
was not well trained or was just having a bad day. I don't know, but I
came away from the experience with a bad taste in my mouth. Unless
Raritan or any other company has a program of ceritfying "Authorized
LectraSan Technician"s and informing the customers that they will only
accept installations done by these technicians and work with problems
described by same, then they are going to have to deal with the occational
situation where something fails for reasons the consumer cannot artuculate.
That's just part of doing business.
doug
Rex W
appears to be a thorough listing of steps to try to resolve the
problem along with his direct phone number. I'm keeping my fingers
crossed and starting work now to see how it goes.
Doug Dotson
Doug Dotson
Maui
about their PHII heads - she totally supported Raritan against the
facts presented.
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:18:19 -0400, Doug Dotson <ddo...@digidata.com>
wrote:
Rosalie B.
>Rosie, I'm confused...your toilet is hard to work on because it's jammed
>under the sink???? That's a VERY strange place for a toilet...how do you
>use it???
I was using toilet as shorthand for the whole thing - no of course the
actual toilet is not under the sink. And neither you nor the Rairtan
people had any doubt about what we were talking about, which was the
LectraSan part of the system. The toilets, which were not LectraSans and
not Rairtan were perfectly fine all along.
>
>No company is perfect, and you and Doug are only two people of thousands
>who have Raritan products (Karl doesn't count...he condemns 'em for less
>than perfection, but has never had any first hand experience with them).
>There isn't a company on the planet who can claim 100% satisfaction
>rate.
>
>A large part of most dissatisfaction is the boat owner's fault, and
>Rosie has just provided a good example of what can cause it: she refers
>to what can only be a Lectra/San as a "toilet." Raritan also makes a
When we called in it was my husband that called, and everyone involved KNEW
that it was LectraSan that was referred to that didn't work. We had the
order number and when they sent it and who we bought it from (went through
that with the first call). The first call was fine. The second call was
fine. It was only when we tried to track down the part that they
supposedly sent, that we ran into trouble, and they got nasty. Because
IMHO they screwed up and didn't want to admit it. There was NO MISSED
COMMUNICATION.
As I told Peggy in an email- my husband does the tech stuff. I just know
how to flush the MSD, and that's all I want to know. That doesn't mean
that Rairtan wasn't off base, or that we don't have a right to be annoyed
at them.
>toilet that use a circuit board...it also "churns" (macerates) and has a
>timed flush. It could take 20 minutes of conversation with a customer
>service person just to know she isn't talking about that toilet at all,
>but the Lectra/San...a separate treatment device. But if the CS person
>hasn't figured that out by the time the conversation ends, she's got
>trouble-shooting instructions that don't apply at all to her
>problem...but when they don't work, guess who gets blamed for "rotten
>customer service?"
>
>Then there's the customer who tried to fix it himself, but didn't bother
>to read the owner's manual first, and made things worse. When customer
>service tells him what he did wrong that's gonna cost him twice as much
>as it would have, he claims the company "blames the customer for its
>mistakes."
That wasn't the case in our case - we had done exactly what the manual
said. And we found the problem ourselves without help from customer
service, and when we did, they did replace the part.
>>
>> When we got to Charleston a week later, we mailed the presumably defective
>> part back. We called Wednesday as the replacement part had not come. They
>> said it had been sent, but they sounded a little disorganized on the phone
>> - at first they had no record of our call. They also refused to track
>> where the shipment was at this point and were kind of abrupt.
>>
>> The computer card did not arrive. This was just before Thanksgiving, so we
>> called the Mon after Thanksgiving as they were closed Thurs and Friday.
>> They said the part had been sent, but it went to California by mistake. I
>> personally think they never sent it and someone was just CTA. They refused
>> to ship a replacement to us in SC without making a huge charge on our
>> credit card for overnight delivery (they were sort of nasty about it), so
>> we told them to ship it to our next destination, which was Miami.
>>
>> After we got the part in Miami (It had arrived the next day, but we didn't
>> get there for 3 weeks), Bob installed the new card, but the toilet still
>> didn't work. He then changed the control cards between the two toilets,
>> and that was the problem. One of the little solder pieces had fallen off
>> the card.
>>
>> They did make good on the repair at no cost to us, other than mailing
>> things to them. So we are pretty satisfied, but I think a couple of their
>> shipping/customer service people leave a bit to be desired.
grandma Rosalie
Doug Dotson
for a while. I rebuilt it replacing all the fiddly bits that normally wear
out. I even wired it so that the LectraSan came on automatically
when it was flushed. Regularly clogged up when just a little too
much TP was used. Finally gave up on it and replaced it with a
nice Groco. Life is much better and both heads on the boat are
exactly the same type now. Vacuflush is sitting at Ocean Outfitters
in Annapolis for sale.
Karl Denninger wrote:
> Don't forget, Doug, that Peggie REGULARLY blasts the Vacu-flush system for
> EXACTLY this reason - they refuse to allow people to install their own under
> penalty of voiding the warranty.
>
> Its funny how the double standard appears to be alive and well here.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <3B82A8ED...@digidata.com>,
Doug Dotson
with the LectraSan but I was never able to really put
my finger on it. The runs (no pun intended) were kind
of long. 6' from head to vacuum chamber, another 6' to
the LectraSan, and then the vented loop on the output
side of the LectraSan was about 4' up. It all seemed to
work OK and I liked the VacuFlush in general. Had it
hooked up so the LectraSan started automatically so
it was really convenient. Even used official SeaLand
TP. Finally gave up. We really liked the idea of having
both heads exactly the same anyway. It was also an older
VacuFlush back when they were Mansfield with the
separate vacuum chamber and pump.
doug
Karl Denninger wrote:
> I've got a Vacuflush on my Hatt and have had no trouble with it - with the
> exception of a guest flushing a paper towel down it - that plugged it up at
> the pump.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <3B83B266...@digidata.com>,
Doug Dotson
Karl Denninger wrote:
> Mine is an older Mansfield unit as well; separate pump and chamber. The run
> from the toilet to the pump is a good 10'.
>
> Mine is a factory installation - circa 1985. It still works reliably, holds
> vacuum for a couple of hours, and in general it seems to be a decent system.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <3B83C961...@digidata.com>,
Doug Dotson
New seals, the ball looking thing in the bottom, gaskets, etc.
Karl Denninger wrote:
> I suspect a pump rebuild would drastically increase the vacuum holding time
> - its in the cards for the fall along with most of the other "minor stuff"
> that needs to be done. :-)
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
>
> In article <3B83DEE4...@digidata.com>,
Doug Dotson
Gog...@Dublin.edu wrote:
> In article <3B81D5C9...@bellsouth.net>, peg...@bellsouth.net says...
> >
> (SNIP!)
>
> When postings suddenly go from a few lines to hundreds of lines and each is
> longer than the last and the thread goes on forever, the input of useful
> information has ceased and it's time to move on to something else.