Hallberg Rassy vs. Pacific Seacraft / Valiant

[ddow...@aol.com]

We are considering buying a boat that breaks all the rules of what we would
consider a "bluewater cruiser". Our objective is to sail in comfort and
safety through all but the most terrible conditions -- which we hope to avoid
at all costs through good seamanship.

If, however, through our own or Mother Nature's doing, we end up in dire
circumstances, we want to pull through with our lives and (ideally) boat
intact.

From memory (not always 100%), my traditional definition of a "bluewater
passagemaker" includes:

1.) Full keel or cruising keel with skeg hung rudder. 2.) Solid, substantial
construction, hull & deck joint bonded and secured by SS bolts at 4" to 6"
centers. Glassed in bulkheads. Glassed in Keel, or lead keel secured with
substantial bronze or monel keelbolts. 3.) KEEL stepped mast, heavy duty
spars and rigging 4.) Small AFT cockpit 5.) Canoe stern (stern becomes your
bow in a strong following sea) 6.) 30" to 36" stanchions and lifelines 7.)
Positive locking mechanisms on floorboards, under-berth storage, drawers,
cabinets and lockers

Aesthetically and in the interest of low maintenance, we always said:

1.) NO teak decks
2.) NO teak cap rail

From our sailing experience and desire to keep things simple we said:

1.) No furling main (in mast or boom)

The Valiant 40/42 and the Pacific Seacraft 40 have been at the top of our list
because of these characteristics. We (were/are) more interested in
seakindliness and probable survival in a knockdown or roll-over, than
performance. We heard all the arguments about fast vs. slow passages for
weather avoidence, but felt rock-solid was better than the discomfort and
fatigue that would come with a harried passage.

THEN...

We looked at the Hallberg-Rassy 42.

1.) Fin keel with only partial skeg hanging the rudder (subject to damage,
but built well!) 2.) Solid, substantial construction, hull & deck joint
bonded -- epoxy filled -- then glassed -- BUT NO BOLTS, at any centers! Keel
secured with (substantial) SS bolts. Glassed in grid/hull sub-structure to
which bulkheads are glassed and floor is installed. 3.) DECK stepped mast,
but significant rigging 4.) Substantial CENTER cockpit 5.) Reverse transom
with steps 6.) 20" to 24" stanchions and lifelines 7.) NO locking
floorboards, or under-berth storage

And wouldn't you know:

1.) TEAK decks
2.) TEAK cap rail

Nice looking, but concerns about maintenance, durability, aesthetics, long
term impact on resale.

And just to top it off, a really great looking option for a two person crew:

1.) A Selden in-mast furling main (manual).

The HR 42 looks like an incredibly well manufactured boat. It has comparable
numbers (LOA, LWL, Beam, Draft, Displacement & Ballast), ratios (D/L, B/D,
SA/D, Vm/Vh), and factors (Comfort, Capsize) comparable to both the Valiant
and the Pacific Seacraft -- but with an entirely different hull shape and
performance profile.

Our intent initially is California coastal cruising (3 to 7 years), and then
extended cruising -- probably focusing on the South Seas and/or Caribbean.
Any advice or experience you can provide that will help us with our buying
decision will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Duncan

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[MastNMate]

Much has been written about your quandry, Plenty of yehs and nehs on both
sides. Go with your gut, not your head--------good luck
GaryW http://www.mastmate.com

[cap...@flash.net]

When you have to have the proven one, the very best, only one blue water
cruiser will do:

V A L I A N T

the others are just sailboats. Of course that's just my opinion and I
could be wrong.

Cap

[Paul Kamen]

ddow...@aol.com writes:

>From memory (not always 100%), my traditional definition

>of a "bluewater passagemaker" includes:...

You'll find as many defintions of "blewater passgemenaker" as there are
offshore sailors. If you go back a bit in this newsgroup you'll find
well-reasoned arguments against almost every one of the points you cite.

And new items are being addd. Flotation, variable draft, and fractional
rig might become "essential" features of the offshore cruiser of the
future.

--
fish...@netcom.com
http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html

-"Call me Fishmeal"-

[Kmmu2]

You might want to query John Neal who sailed a HR 42 for several years in the
pacific and now has a larger HR (he runs charter offshore cruises).

I don't know a web site but search for
"Mahina Teare" <sp>

On a personal note I like HR boats and think they are the equal of the others
you've considered. Deck stepped masts just have to be a bit bigger to be as
good as a keel stepped one, fiberglass only hull deck joints can and do work if
done well (and HR has a good rep as a builder). I would be apprehensive about
the teak decks though.

Evan Gatehouse
cei...@NOSPAMyahoo.com

[skip commagere]

Since as you cruise, you will be at sea about 10% of the time and at anchor about
80% with the remaining time spent on the hard or at a dock, why aren't you more
concerned about creature comforts? All the boats you mention are top of the line
in construction and you shouldn't be afraid to venture across oceans in any of
them. You and your partner will go farther for longer in the most comfortable
vessel of the three.

Skip

ddow...@aol.com wrote:

> We are considering buying a boat that breaks all the rules of what we would
> consider a "bluewater cruiser". Our objective is to sail in comfort and
> safety through all but the most terrible conditions -- which we hope to avoid
> at all costs through good seamanship.
>
> If, however, through our own or Mother Nature's doing, we end up in dire
> circumstances, we want to pull through with our lives and (ideally) boat
> intact.
>

> From memory (not always 100%), my traditional definition of a "bluewater
> passagemaker" includes:
>

[Dave Gibson]

Ask the folks who own and sail them, all years and models of HRs.
www.fultomcomputer.com/classic.htm.

[Hary]

I would also examine stability, Halberg Rassy refuses to give their
customers stability information, they say its a privacy agreement between
them and Frers, actually the older Halberg Rassy boats were excellent and
had a high range of positive stability.

But dont ignore stability.

Paul Kamen wrote in message ...

> ddow...@aol.com writes:
>
> >From memory (not always 100%), my traditional definition

[Bob Richardson]

I think all of your "wish list" decisions make a lot of sense.

I would have recommended you also look at a Tashiba 40 - except for the
minimal teak requirement. While I have a Tashiba, I fully agree with your
decision to avoid brightwork that's exposed to the elements. I don't
consider teak decks any problem at all. However, teak hand rails, etc. are a
real maintenance item.

Before you choose a reverse transom, consider the problem of mounting a wind
vane on one. Also the large cockpit of the HR will probably come at a trade
off of less enterior volume.

While I have a keel steeped mast, and use to think it was safer, I now think
that's bogus.