Dinghy Advice: Portabote 8 or Walker Bay 8
Spamfreedom
fromt he Strictly Sail show in Chicago, I have seen in person some of the
product advice given here )from some of you) has been accurate and helpful.
I have a real quandry, and it plagues many sailors. Dinghies. I have a 36
cruising sailboat ont he Great Lakes and I need to get a better dinghy.
Choosing between a roll up inflatable (of which I already own 2, a 8 ' Zodiac
and a 12'Avon and I have never put these on board or towed them, ther are in my
garage), a plasitc injection molded beat er (which seems to be a decent
alternative) or the portabote (which I never rode in or know of anybody that
has).
My goal is to have a simple dinghy that is functional, tows easily and reliably
and can be put on deck in foul times. I prefer to keep thing s simple and row
it, but I do have a small cruise N carry (1.5 hp) as well. Seem I may just
prefer to get both to have the right tool for the job. BUT ,the Walker Bay 8
has my attention right now. Any usefull feedback and advice on this before i
go out and throw $$ away?...cheers, Jeff
Oh and since sapmmers suck, please reply to the newsgroup. thanks
rh...@darkstar.ca
>
>I have a real quandry, and it plagues many sailors. Dinghies. I have a 36
>cruising sailboat ont he Great Lakes and I need to get a better dinghy.
>Choosing between a roll up inflatable (of which I already own 2, a 8 ' Zodiac
>and a 12'Avon and I have never put these on board or towed them, ther are in my
>garage),
You don't say why you don't use the Zodiac or the Avon. Either would
work well for the Great Lakes as a simple means of getting to and from
the shore from an anchorage, particularly with a 30 lb. motor. Both
can be towed or rolled up and put in a lazarette (OK, the eight-footer
wins here). Have you considered davits? Plenty of people use them and
the weight off the stern isn't too bad on a 36 footer. An alternative
is a davit pole and bridle for first the rubber boat and then the
engine (it's safer to lower the engine, even a light one.)
a plasitc injection molded beat er (which seems to be a decent
>alternative) or the portabote (which I never rode in or know of anybody that
>has).
Lots of people love the Portabote for its simplicity, ease of stowage
and ability to plane with a small motor. It can be rowed, powered or
even sailed with an optional rig. Other people find it ugly and/or too
weird to set up and take down, although it only takes (I'm told) 15
minutes, which is probably less time than it takes to inflate a
Zodiac-style tender.
>
>My goal is to have a simple dinghy that is functional, tows easily and reliably
>and can be put on deck in foul times. I prefer to keep thing s simple and row
>it, but I do have a small cruise N carry (1.5 hp) as well. Seem I may just
>prefer to get both to have the right tool for the job. BUT ,the Walker Bay 8
>has my attention right now. Any usefull feedback and advice on this before i
>go out and throw $$ away?...cheers, Jeff
>
A hard dinghy is fine and reliable, but can't be collapsed and is
often heavy for its size. It is the best choice for hauling cargo to
and from shore, and the best choice for the dedicated rower. They also
tow well. But unless I anchored out consistantly, I think a roll-up
inflatable or a nesting/folding boat is a better idea for you. Again,
davits would cost less for the existing boat(s) than a new hard
dinghy.
Personally, I have a 10' Zodiac RIB which I tow behind my 33.5'
cruiser. Being an RIB, it tracks well in the water and I rarely remove
the 10 HP 4-stroke on the back (yes, I can easily plane at 18-20 knots
in it). It's a vessel in its own right (I carry nav lights, etc.) and
is great for exploring up rivers and playing around it on days when
the air is too light for decent sailing. And it carries half a ton of
cargo, if needed. Best of all compromises for me, here in Toronto.
Hope this helps,
R.
jv
Although my Walker Bay dinghy is for sale as I have just ordered a
new inflatable, I really
enjoyed playing with it. It tows as light as my inflatable, seems very
stable and sails really well.
They don't hold a ton of weight but there is lots of freeboard to play with.
I would buy another one anytime. Mine is for sale on the west coast of
Canada at $650USD
complete. It is located in Victoria Canada.
I have tried almost every type of dinghy there is and you could do a lot
worse than a Walker Bay.
Good luck with whatever you decide to get. cheers john vye
REMOVE NOSPAM IN REPLY
EJBleendreeble
> the Walker Bay 8
> has my attention right now. Any usefull feedback and advice on this
We thought the Walker Bay 8 small. We went for the 10, and are more
and more glad of our decision all the time. You can find a review of
the Walker Bay 10 on our Web site at:
http://www.casualsailor.com/Dinghies.shtml
and -- if you're interested in davits to carry it --
http://www.casualsailor.com/ThisOldMotorYacht15.shtml
E.J. Bleendreeble
http://www.casualsailor.com
Randy Devol
<rh...@darkstar.ca> wrote:
>On 03 Feb 2003 14:59:14 GMT, spamf...@aol.com (Spamfreedom) wrote:
>
>Lots of people love the Portabote for its simplicity, ease of stowage
>and ability to plane with a small motor. It can be rowed, powered or
>even sailed with an optional rig. Other people find it ugly and/or too
>weird to set up and take down, although it only takes (I'm told) 15
>minutes, which is probably less time than it takes to inflate a
>Zodiac-style tender.
I have the 8 foot Portabote for my F-31 trimaran. I only row it and it
rows well enough in anchorages. A friend borrowed it long enough to try
his Honda 4 stroke 2 HP motor. It didn't plane but it tracked well and
zipped along at 6 knots or so. It is limited to a 5 HP motor by Coast
Guard standards and with that, can get up on a plane according to Practical
Sailor.
The 8 foot model is limited to 3 adults and is cozy with 2 adults and
supplies. Also, it is tippy and takes some getting used to after you have
used a RIB or something similar.
It is easy enough to assemble/disassemble on our nets and lift out of the
water that I prefer to fold it and place it on our nets for traveling.
I towed it once in calm conditions and it towed just fine, but that was
hardly a test. But I suspect it will tow about as well as any hard dinghy
or maybe a bit better (lighter).
>>
>>My goal is to have a simple dinghy that is functional, tows easily and reliably
>>and can be put on deck in foul times. I prefer to keep thing s simple and row
>>it, but I do have a small cruise N carry (1.5 hp) as well. Seem I may just
>>prefer to get both to have the right tool for the job. BUT ,the Walker Bay 8
>>has my attention right now. Any usefull feedback and advice on this before i
>>go out and throw $$ away?...cheers, Jeff
>>
>A hard dinghy is fine and reliable, but can't be collapsed and is
>often heavy for its size. It is the best choice for hauling cargo to
>and from shore, and the best choice for the dedicated rower. They also
>tow well. But unless I anchored out consistantly, I think a roll-up
>inflatable or a nesting/folding boat is a better idea for you. Again,
>davits would cost less for the existing boat(s) than a new hard
>dinghy.
I would suggest either a folding Port-a-boat or a nesting dinghy if you
really want to bring it on deck. At the same time, I also encourage you
to look at davits no matter what you choose. All of these options are on
the heavy side for one person to lift. It works for me due to the low
freeboard on our trimaran. On a monohull with high freeboard, it would
be a lot more difficult to lift anything on board.
-=O=- Randy Devol Corsair-31 #213, Joint Venture
Jere Lull
While you have enough deck space for a RIB, we don't -- with less than
9' between the mast and forestay and our main hatch in between. We got a
12.5' PortaBote and simply love it. Stows on our foredeck without
interfering with anything, planed with a friend's 2 HP Honda (just me:
200#), rows so well that it seems most cruisers don't bother putting the
motor on if they're just putting about the harbor (we haven't for 3 or
so years), and is comfortable for 5 adults under oar, more under power.
Though it's normally faster to put the boat back on deck for long
distance travelling, it tows just fine on a short teather.
For what I consider an *understated* review, see
http://portaboat.com/practical.html. That's the article that sold us.
BTW, the difference in price between the 8.5 and 12.5 is (last I
checked) less than $100, so there's almost no reason to get a smaller
version. Also they are limited by outboard *weight*, not size. With
ours, the floation limits us to a 100# motor. You can put heavier on,
but if you get swamped, the boat can sink. I've never been in rough
enough water to overcome the 24" freeboard, but that's your decision.
Personally, I'd be afraid of opening up more than about 10 HP except in
the calmest anchorages. 12 knots with 4 HP is just fine for me. 30+
knots would freak me completely out.
They have some quirks. Our 3 seats and the transom pretty much take over
a quarterberth when the hull's on deck (we found a better location, but
you may not have it). When the boat gets on plane, the bottom falls out
from under your feet. VERY disconcerting, though that's one reason the
boat can go so fast on so little.
Just in case you missed the point, we're VERY happy consumers of the
PortaBote.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
Rosalie B.
I tried to get into ours from the water, and swamped it completely -
the water was over the gunnels. But didnt didn't sink. It just
floated right under the surface with me sitting in it.
Ours does say it is limited in the motor hp. and total weight.
>enough water to overcome the 24" freeboard, but that's your decision.
>Personally, I'd be afraid of opening up more than about 10 HP except in
>the calmest anchorages. 12 knots with 4 HP is just fine for me. 30+
>knots would freak me completely out.
>
>They have some quirks. Our 3 seats and the transom pretty much take over
>a quarterberth when the hull's on deck (we found a better location, but
We have it folded up next to the cabin most of the time (the
inflatable is on the davits) We have had the seats in a locker, but
Bob has made a big Sunbrella bag for all the stuff and that's on the
cabin top on the other side.
>you may not have it). When the boat gets on plane, the bottom falls out
>from under your feet. VERY disconcerting, though that's one reason the
>boat can go so fast on so little.
>
>Just in case you missed the point, we're VERY happy consumers of the
>PortaBote.
grandma Rosalie
Steve Christensen
says...
>
>hello again all, and first off I would like to say thanks. After returning
>fromt he Strictly Sail show in Chicago, I have seen in person some of the
>product advice given here )from some of you) has been accurate and helpful.
>
>I have a real quandry, and it plagues many sailors. Dinghies. I have a 36
>cruising sailboat ont he Great Lakes and I need to get a better dinghy.
>Choosing between a roll up inflatable (of which I already own 2, a 8 ' Zodiac
>and a 12'Avon and I have never put these on board or towed them, ther are in my
>garage), a plasitc injection molded beat er (which seems to be a decent
>alternative) or the portabote (which I never rode in or know of anybody that
>has).
We have an 8' Porta Bote as the dinghy for our Ericson 38 on the Great Lakes,
and we highly recommend it. BUT, while it may only take minutes to dissable it,
getting it on deck, and stowing the parts, takes time and space. So in practice
we tow it from anchorage to anchorage once we get to our cruising destination
unless it is real rough (in which case we don't usually move anyway). We bought
the 8 footer to minimze on parts (one less seat to stow) and because it fits
perfectly along the side of the cabin house while underway. But if you have the
room the 10 footer is a better boat.
I highly recommed the Porta Bote. But don't think that taking it down and
stowing the parts can be done in 15 minutes. In that respect I'm not sure it
isn't just as much work as an inflatable, though it does store in a lot smaller
space. The ride and durability are fantastic though.
Steve Christensen
Midland, MI
Mark Weaver
>
> I have a real quandry, and it plagues many sailors. Dinghies. I
> have a 36 cruising sailboat ont he Great Lakes and I need to get a
> better dinghy. Choosing between a roll up inflatable (of which I
> already own 2, a 8 ' Zodiac and a 12'Avon and I have never put these
> on board or towed them, ther are in my garage), a plasitc injection
> molded beat er (which seems to be a decent alternative) or the
> portabote (which I never rode in or know of anybody that has).
>
We tow an 11' plywood/epoxy dink on the Great Lakes most of the time
(sometimes we use a sea kayak instead). The dink doesn't (and probably
couldn't) come aboard, but that's OK -- it tows just fine through conditions
as rough as those we want to sail in anyway. I'm sure we'd find having to
fold and assemble a dink as big a PITA as we found having to blow up the
inflatable we had before the kayak and current dink. Don't know what your
crew size is, but you might consider a Walker Bay 10 rather than the 8. You
get a lot more stability and capacity and it's still pretty cheap.
Homebuilt is another possible route. We really like ours, I enjoyed
building it, and if you really want to be able to take it aboard, you could
build a nesting version.
Mark
Rosalie B.
We were on a mooring in Miami off and on from December 2000 to March
2001 (with trips down the Keys, 3 weeks in Key West, trip from there
to the Dry Tortuguas and two weeks in the Bahamas interspersed), and
Bob didn't want to leave the dinghy at the dinghy dock. The dinghy
dock was full of mangrove roots and various other inimical to
inflatable things (the only one that wasn't deflated and sad looking
was on a big foam pad), so he didn't want to use that dinghy. So we
used the portabote.
We'd assemble it on the deck and put it over using the whisker pole as
a crane, and row or motor to the dinghy dock, disassemble it and put
it in the back of my SIL's pick up truck (it stuck out the back a
little), and drive to our daughter's house and take it out of the
truck and put it in the yard. When we did the reverse, we'd pull the
dinghy up onto the deck to disassemble, again using the whisker pole
as a crane.
Eventually I did persuade Bob that we could transport the dinghy
without disassembling it, and then we just stuck it upside down in the
yard. And after we'd been there two weeks, he was willing to leave
the dinghy at the dinghy 'dock' locked to a tree.
We got a lot of practice putting it together and taking it apart in
that time. (We had to be back on the boat morning and evening to run
the refrigeration,) I never timed it, but I don't think it took much
longer to take apart than it took to put it together. Actually I
think it was quite a bit quicker. Bob did have containers for all the
parts - a small bag for the little wing nuts and bolts, that is
attached to the top of the larger bag for the seats etc. Cause if we
lost that stuff, we'd be SOL.
grandma Rosalie
Jere Lull
><snip of a lot of good points; this is for Grandma's Bob>
>
>Bob did have containers for all the
>parts - a small bag for the little wing nuts and bolts, that is
>attached to the top of the larger bag for the seats etc. Cause if we
>lost that stuff, we'd be SOL.
>
>
I've had no trouble with stowing the seat clips in the boat, itself, and
screwing the transom bolts (and our attached riding bridle) onto the
transom for stowage. Everything seems to stay in its place.
Of course I have extra of everything in my junk drawer just in case, but
I haven't needed it.
Frank Wiewandt
> Homebuilt is another possible route. We really like ours, I enjoyed
> building it, and if you really want to be able to take it aboard,
you could
> build a nesting version.
Which design did you build?
TIA,
Frank Wiewandt
Rosalie B.
>Rosalie B. wrote:
>
>><snip of a lot of good points; this is for Grandma's Bob>
>>
>>Bob did have containers for all the
>>parts - a small bag for the little wing nuts and bolts, that is
>>attached to the top of the larger bag for the seats etc. Cause if we
>>lost that stuff, we'd be SOL.
>>
>>
>I've had no trouble with stowing the seat clips in the boat, itself, and
>screwing the transom bolts (and our attached riding bridle) onto the
>transom for stowage. Everything seems to stay in its place.
>
>Of course I have extra of everything in my junk drawer just in case, but
>I haven't needed it.
We don't have a square one. Bob says he thinks it is possible to put
it all inside, but we don't have to, and it doesn't stow as flat that
way.
grandma Rosalie
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/
Mark Weaver
I built a Spindrift from B&B Yacht designs:
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/
Mine is the 11-foot, non-nesting, cat-rigged version:
http://www.fototime.com/2C64AA53BF5523E/standard.jpg
(Those orange things aren't part of the original design -- they're my
swim-noodle fenders ;)
Mark
Frank Wiewandt
> I built a Spindrift from B&B Yacht designs:
Neat boat. How long did it take you to build? Any estimate on what
your final cost (not including labor ;-) was? I've thought about
building something along those lines to replace our aging inflatable.
I'd probably do a sailing version, possibly nesting.
Also, where do you sail in the Great Lakes? I sail mostly in Lake
Erie.
Take care,
Frank Wiewandt
Mark Weaver
>
> Neat boat. How long did it take you to build? Any estimate on what
> your final cost (not including labor ;-) was?
How long did it take? The elapsed time was a few months, but that consisted
of an a hour or two in various evenings -- I didn't total it all up. I
would say, though, that adding the sail rig probably doubles the overall
time (and I bought the sail ready made). The centerboard trunk, board,
rudder, tiller, boom, mast, etc. take quite a bit of work -- the hull itself
is pretty straightforward. Final cost was quite low because I 'cheated' and
used $8 luaun ply (but I was pretty careful in selecting the sheets and boil
tested it before deciding to go that route). I also went with Raka epoxy
which is good and inexpensive. So materials for just the hull were probably
no more than $200 all told. Sail and rigging parts were about $300, I
think. Add in the aluminum for the mast and the various bits of wood and I
think it was probably about $700 for everything.
>
> Also, where do you sail in the Great Lakes? I sail mostly in Lake
> Erie.
>
We cruise in a 26' trailerable, so we're all over. Most often we sail
northwestern Lake Michigan and we've been doing a North Channel cruise for
the last several years (which is where the photo was taken). We do sail the
Lake Erie Islands out of Sandusky once in a while, though -- that's very
nice (especially if you can pick a relatively uncrowded day).
We don't take the sailing rig with us when we use the dink as a tender (too
much junk to haul in our relatively small 'mother ship'), but the dink is
light enough to car-top and my wife and I take it and sail it in little
lakes near home. It sails very nicely.
Mark
Frank Wiewandt
> We cruise in a 26' trailerable, so we're all over. Most often we
sail
> northwestern Lake Michigan and we've been doing a North Channel
cruise for
> the last several years (which is where the photo was taken). We do
sail the
> Lake Erie Islands out of Sandusky once in a while, though -- that's
very
> nice (especially if you can pick a relatively uncrowded day).
I keep my boat in Port Clinton. The "Islands" are getting a bit
crowded for me so I generally try to head further north to Pelee or
the south shore of Canada. I race on a friends boat and sail out of
most of the other US north shore ports as well. It really is a good
cruising ground.
Headed for Georgian Bay a number of years ago but ran out of time.
Someday will do Georgian Bay / North Channel. A couple of Mac races is
as close as I've gotten by boat.
Take care,
Frank
Mark Weaver
>
> I keep my boat in Port Clinton. The "Islands" are getting a bit
> crowded for me so I generally try to head further north to Pelee or
> the south shore of Canada. I race on a friends boat and sail out of
> most of the other US north shore ports as well. It really is a good
> cruising ground.
>
The first time we used our dink as a tender, we launched in Sandusky. I
don't remember what I had stuffed in the centerboard slot, but it wasn't
sufficient. Very soon there were splashes of water coming up through the
slot. I didn't think much of it--just thought we'd have to bail a bit when
we got to Kelley's for a swim. But after a while I noticed we were going
slower and slower. By the time I stopped the boat and pulled the dink up
alongside, there was probably 6" of water in the hull. Heck of a sea anchor
that way ;)
Surprising how much force can be generated in the slot when the dink bounces
over a wave (and how much water will come in if the slot isn't closed). I
finally ended up cutting a piece of foam out of a swim noodle that fits
tightly and that does the job.
> Headed for Georgian Bay a number of years ago but ran out of time.
> Someday will do Georgian Bay / North Channel. A couple of Mac races is
> as close as I've gotten by boat.
>
You gotta get there -- even if you have to charter:
http://www.fototime.com/689435E3B88056D/standard.jpg
Regards,
Mark
Frank Wiewandt
> alongside, there was probably 6" of water in the hull. Heck of a
sea anchor
> that way ;)
That's the truth. I've been towing my inflatable in big blows when it
has become either a kite or a sea anchor. Not fun.
> You gotta get there -- even if you have to charter:
>
> http://www.fototime.com/689435E3B88056D/standard.jpg
Great shot Mark! That's exactly what I envision when I think about
that area. How much water was in that little cove? Also, are you in
the GLCC?
Later,
Frank
Mark Weaver
>
> Great shot Mark! That's exactly what I envision when I think about
> that area. How much water was in that little cove? Also, are you in
> the GLCC?
>
How much water? Where we were, I think there was maybe 5 feet last year.
In this shot, you can see the entrance and where we're tucked in:
http://www.fototime.com/A75133DEAE106A6/standard.jpg
I have to admit I'm not very good about tracking depths very closely -- we
only draw a bit over a foot with the board and kick-up rudder raised. But
if you're envisioning that sort of place, you've got the right idea--there
are really more places more or less like that one than you can count. Here
are some other favorites:
http://www.fototime.com/9356EA1F62C4E4E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/1B365D77751EC4E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/C242A3A392DB175/standard.jpg
The GLCC? We were in it for a while but realized we probably were never
going to do any of the social stuff and we didn't keep it up.
Mark