Air Cooled Honda Outboard Won't Start:
Bill Deutschman
I'm having problems with my Honda 2hp dingy motor. It was new last
year and ran for about 30 hours without problems. Then on this
summer's cruise it suddenly wouldn't start. I looked at all the
normal things, fuel in tank, vent open, switches on and finally
removed the plug. It was slightly tan but not fouled nor did it have
an excessive gap, however I could not see a spark when I grounded the
plug and pulled the starter rope. Nothing seemed to work.
I took it to a dealer in Canada, he looked at it, changed the
sparkplug and it started. Said he couldn't find any thing else
wrong.
Fortunately I purchased a spare plug because the engine ran for about
2 hours and then wouldn't start. Changed plug and it started
immediately. Ran about 1 hour and then wouldn't start. I was out of
new plugs so I soaked the existing plugs in acetone, put one in the
motor and it started on the first pull. Didn't seem to matter if the
engine was warm or cold. The rest of the cruise I kept soaking the
plugs in acetone so I had a "re-conditioned" plug to get the engine to
start.
When I got home I took it to our local dealer. He said he ran it for
about 2 hours and couldn't find anything.
I now know of two other people who have had similar problems. They
were told it was bad gas and they should put stabilizer in their gas
cans. Both say the fuel was new for the trip and that the engine
would start with a new plug. I suspect that it is a bad electronic
ignition module.
I like the motor as it is air cooled, light weight, four cycle so I
don't have to mix oil and meets the 2002 EPA standards but I sure
don't want to change plugs every day or so.
Does anyone have any ideas? Have you had similar problems? Any ideas
would be helpful.
bill deutschman
olc...@internetcds.com
Oregon Laser Consultants Comprehensive Laser Safety Services
455 Hillside Avenue including employee training & LSO
Klamath Falls, OR 97601-2337 support.
541.882.3295
Please change the "at" and "dot" in the addres before replying.
*****************************************************
Karl Denninger
I'll bet its a bad HEI module that is marginal and a bit too weak to
produce spark with less than optimium conditions - like when the engine
is cold.
A cold engine requires more energy to get the spark to jump; you have a
very rich mixture in there (you have to to get it to fire at all) and low
temperature. The engine RPMs are very low (since you're pulling the rope)
and since these are magneto engines that means low voltage and current
available to the HEI module.
Swapping in a new (or completely cleaned) plug gives you JUST a bit lower
voltage requirement; once the engine fires the RPM picks up, power
requirements go down, and you're fine.
Get the dealer to either check the magneto or just swap the module.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting Solutions
http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION AT THIS SITE TODAY!
AL GORE HATES FAMILIES! See the above site.
Graham
> I'll bet its a bad HEI module that is marginal and a bit too weak to
> produce spark with less than optimium conditions - like when the engine
> is cold.
>
> A cold engine requires more energy to get the spark to jump; you have a
> very rich mixture in there (you have to to get it to fire at all) and low
> temperature. The engine RPMs are very low (since you're pulling the rope)
> and since these are magneto engines that means low voltage and current
> available to the HEI module.
>
> Swapping in a new (or completely cleaned) plug gives you JUST a bit lower
> voltage requirement; once the engine fires the RPM picks up, power
> requirements go down, and you're fine.
>
> Get the dealer to either check the magneto or just swap the module.
objectively test the new module!
Larry W4CSC
in that plug, now full of a GREAT little trail of salt or some other
conductor to short out the spark.....(c;
Whew, you scared me. I thought I'd found a HONDA that failed!
Nope....spark plug. My confidence is restored....
larry....crabbers all want honda here...
Bill Deutschman
wrote:
>Just a guess, but there's a hairline crack in the porcelin insulator
>in that plug, now full of a GREAT little trail of salt or some other
>conductor to short out the spark.....(c;
>
>Whew, you scared me. I thought I'd found a HONDA that failed!
>Nope....spark plug. My confidence is restored....
Could believe that is the problem if it was only one plug that had the
problem but I had three different plugs fail to start. I still think
there is something wrong with the ignition system and Honda doesn't
want to admit it. I am currently getting a garbage can so I can run
the engine until it fails and then take it to the dealer in a
non-starting condition.
I don't think it has anything to do with being cold as it failed to
start twice after I had shut it off to talk to someone on another
boat. It was only stopped five or so minutes until I finished
talking. Changed to a cleaned plug and it started immediately. The
plug that I took out was too hot to hold more that a few seconds.
Got so that I carried spare plugs and a plug wrench when I used the
dingy.
bill
Ron Hudson
plugs are being quickly fouled one after the other as soon as the system starts
running. Since you can restore the plugs by soaking them, the fuel is a
probably suspect. How about using a separate source for fuel to flush the
carburetor and then run the engine with as a test?
Ron
On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:18:02 -0800, Bill Deutschman <olc...@internetcds.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:38:49 GMT, nob...@nowhere.net (Larry W4CSC)
Jere Lull
> On Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:38:49 GMT, nob...@nowhere.net (Larry W4CSC)
> wrote:
>
> >Just a guess, but there's a hairline crack in the porcelin insulator
> >in that plug, now full of a GREAT little trail of salt or some other
> >conductor to short out the spark.....(c;
> >
> >Whew, you scared me. I thought I'd found a HONDA that failed!
> >Nope....spark plug. My confidence is restored....
>
> Could believe that is the problem if it was only one plug that had the
> problem but I had three different plugs fail to start. I still think
> there is something wrong with the ignition system and Honda doesn't
> want to admit it. I am currently getting a garbage can so I can run
> the engine until it fails and then take it to the dealer in a
> non-starting condition.
>
> I don't think it has anything to do with being cold as it failed to
> start twice after I had shut it off to talk to someone on another
> boat. It was only stopped five or so minutes until I finished
> talking. Changed to a cleaned plug and it started immediately. The
> plug that I took out was too hot to hold more that a few seconds.
>
> Got so that I carried spare plugs and a plug wrench when I used the
> dingy.
This is getting interesting: Changing a plug works, a succession of plugs foul
out while you're on the water, but the shop doesn't see it happen.
Sounds like there's something different between the shop's set up and yours.
Wild thought that occurred while I was reviewing the available info: Did the
shop use your tank or their own? That's the only difference I can think of.
Even wilder thought: Did you perchance use old fuel, or possibly fuel mixed with
oil?
Is the tank's vent is open and the fuel line clear? (partial vacuum can relieve
itself as you change out the plug.) If you unscrew the gas cap just after it
stops, do you hear a sucking sound?
I don't know the Honda air cooled; for all I know, it's a two stroke engine.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux -- '73 Tanzer 28 #4 -- out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's Pics & Specs: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI Vacation trip FAQ (250+ Annotated pics):
http://members.dca.net/jerelull/BVI.html
Marcie Hascall
"Bill Deutschman" <olc...@internetcds.com> wrote in message
news:s4q50tc6sqkk13tru...@4ax.com...
John Pavel
1. Called NGK spark plugs and they told me that Honda knows about the
problem and all the new 2 HP outboards come with a spark plug that is one
step hotter.
2. Since it is in warrantee I took it to a Honda dealer who first tried to
tell me I had water in the fuel and would have charged me $100 to clean it
but I convinced him to call a Honda district rep who knew about the
problem. He actually came down and replaced an exhaust baffle with a
modified one that is supposed to prevent an intake of water. Upon a
detailed inspection you can see salt deposits inside the spark plug and
that is why a new spark will work until it gets fouled by water. And they
will work forever in the dealers tank because there are no waves and
therefore no water uptake.
I got my outboard back at the end of the season, so far it works so I hope
the problem is solved. I also have Honda 8 HP outboard on my sailboat and
it works very well so I'm really surprised that Honda let this one get by
them.
John Pavel
In article <s4q50tc6sqkk13tru...@4ax.com>, olcbill@<Delete