West Marine Price Increases!
sum...@nowhere.com
Any other boaters out there realized how West Marine has found a way
to increase profits by changing their shipping policies. Actually, if
you buy a $10.00 item from them with their current policy you will be
paying about 40% more than last year. Not a bad price increase for
one year.
I bet those guys at Boats US wish they had thought of it instead of
being direct with their price increases but then Boats US is an
"association" and run like the govt. so we can't really expect them to
be too smart.
Thank God we are not in an inflationary period or Lord knows what they
would have done to us.
Also note that neither of them has a really large selection compared
to the a few of the independents who are still around.
If you call Defender and squeeze them a little you can most always
beat both Boats US and West Marine. But you must s-q-u-e-e-z-e them
or they will stick it to you.
Anton
Your 100% Right!! West was a bargain at one time before Home Depot type
expansion (8-9 yrs. ago), Boat U.S. is no great deal, maybe they have some
item others don't. Defender is the place to shop, my wife even studies the
Defender catalog.
Anton CS 33 Kokopelli
sum...@nowhere.com wrote in article <5hnb3b$l...@news2.cais.com>...
Bob Edwards
course) they will generally meet or beat anyone else's DELIVERED price,
including Defender. This is assuming they have the item in stock. I've
bought a lot from West over the years, and the only exception to this I
ever found was on anchor chain, where Defender was 1/2 of anyone else's
price (but I had to pick it up at their warehouse). And if it doesn't
fit, you don't like it, etc., etc., you just send it back, no questions
asked. Don't try that at Defender, however!
Michael
Ever check out the increased cost of paper back or hard back books, or
anything else you buy? We've been hit with two major tax increases,
Read My Lips Part I from Bush and Read My Lips Part II from Clinton.
Allowable deductions have been decreased, for example the on the road
meal allowance which affects truckers, on the road salesman, delivery
vehicles, etc was cut in half. In some cases it's absorbed and passed on
as a price increase in some cases, such as myself - we just went out of
business (putting seven people out of work of which six are still
unemployed). Somebody gets to pay for all those increases and that
somebody is called the consumer. What did you expect? Of course prices
are going up. I get something of value for the money I spend at
WestMarine, but I see nothing of value for the tax increases. I think
you're barking at the wrong tree.
Ron Pearce
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 06:20:26 GMT, sum...@nowhere.com wrote:
>Any other boaters out there realized how West Marine has found a way
>to increase profits by changing their shipping policies. Actually, if
>you buy a $10.00 item from them with their current policy you will be
>paying about 40% more than last year. Not a bad price increase for
>one year.
>
>I bet those guys at Boats US wish they had thought of it instead of
>being direct with their price increases but then Boats US is an
>"association" and run like the govt. so we can't really expect them to
>be too smart.
>
>Thank God we are not in an inflationary period or Lord knows what they
>would have done to us.
>
>Also note that neither of them has a really large selection compared
>to the a few of the independents who are still around.
>
>If you call Defender and squeeze them a little you can most always
>beat both Boats US and West Marine. But you must s-q-u-e-e-z-e them
>or they will stick it to you.
>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 22:21:40 +0000
From: Chuck Hawley <chuck...@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: chuck...@earthlink.net
Organization: West Marine
To: Ronald Pearce <ron...@cybercomm.net>
CC: Crawford Cole <72763...@compuserve.com>,
Randy Repass <75717...@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: FYI--- Messages forwarded from newsgroup
(rec.boats.cruising)
Ron, thanks for the messages which you forwarded to me.
The goal of the change of the shipping policy was to make the
computation of shipping costs easier, since we get into distorted
shipping costs when we charge 1/2 lb for something light, and then
someone buys 20 of them. Or someone needs to know how much shipping
will
be on an item, but they don't know the shipping weight.
The profit impact of the new shipping policy is identical to the old
shipping policy. It is "revenue neutral" which is how we came up with
our price and weight chart. In some cases, customers get charged more
with the policy, and in an equal number of cases, customers get
charged
less. This is not hype; I was part of the team who worked on the
pricing
structure, and that is how we came up with the brackets.
We are not alone in charging for shipping this way: I think you will
find most of the major non-marine retailers using a similar method.
--
Chuck Hawley +---+
chuck...@earthlink.net | /|
West Marine | / |
http://www.westmarine.com |/ |
=========================== _|_
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---------------------------------
Mark Armstrong
Ron Pearce wrote:
>
> We are not alone in charging for shipping this way: I think you will
> find most of the major non-marine retailers using a similar method.
> --
I do believe defender still charges by weight, plus they are a little
cheaper. Just charge us for what it cost to ship.
Mark
Tim Blackburn
I'm not sure that Chuck's answer cleared up any confusion here. I will
investigate on my own, but his examples did not ring any bells here. I
believe that "sum...@nowhere.com" examples were illustrating the
increase were easier to understand.
M. Therrien
Michael <or...@cdsnet.net> wrote:
I have to agree with Michael here. If you compare the 96 and 97
catalogs, you will find that the prices on many items actually
declined. I know for a fact that a water heater and some ports that
we recently purchased were priced less than last year.
Although I'm not crazy about the concept of charging shipping
based on the value of an order rather that weight, it must be noted
that a significant portion of the cost of shipping out an item is
related to order processing, not the actual freight charge. For
example, if West Marine is paying order clerks, say, 14.00 per hour,
and it takes 15 minutes to process an order, then the cost of
the clerk alone is about 3.50 for your 10.00 book purchase.
The moral of the story is to never place piddly small orders through
mail-order catalogs-- and this holds true for more than just West
Marine.
X-no-archive: yes
Michael
Mark Armstrong wrote:
>
> M. Therrien wrote:
>
Read all previous posts.
Just like Sears and Roebuck changed things, stores like WestMarine and
WalMart are changing the way business is done today. Other factors like
UPS and freeways factor in to this of course. The old ideas of a "true"
retail or catalog store are gone.
You will probably see an increase in both stores and mail order with
companies like WestMarine. For those of us who live 100's miles from the
nearest store, or for those who are at various ports around the world
the catalog is an essential service. But for many who live reasonably
close to store sites they provide that as well along with better
selection and quality, lower prices, and reasonable service. The iron
clad rule in business is you can provide any two of Prices, Service,and
Quality but not all three. How they list their shipping and handling is
immaterial. It is actually more open to list it separately than include
it base pricing. What they are doing is graphically telling you the
result of the last pay raise or the last increase in UPS fees,indirectly
they are telling you the result of the last two tax increases and how it
affects you the consumer.
The local stores, such as the one I owned, can never compete in price
or selection. All we can offer is quality local, on-call service. We
cannot buy in quantites sufficient to keep prices down, many times a
WalMart will retail before special sales at less than our wholesale
buying cost. When artificial interference from external sources such as
government tax and wage increases gets to big to handle and we cannot
pass it on to the consumer - we go under.
As to wages. If WM pays $14.00 an hour that is not the true wage. That
is only the hourly rate for the income taxable portion. On average
total hourly wages are 50% greater so I would bet the actual cost to
WestMarine is $21.00 an hour. The same is true in every other
business. The part most people forget about is the non-income taxed
portion of wages which is actually taxed at 100%. Social Security (the
other 7.5% for a total of 15%), Unemployment Insurance, Workmen's
Compensation, employee medical program etc. All of these are in the
non-income taxed portion of salary. It's still part of overhead and has
to be accounted for on the profit and loss statements.
So now your $10.00 fifteen minute order just cost them not $3.50 but
$5.25 in employee salary - and that's only if the phone is ringing.
Assume they have marked up the item twice (I don't know what the markup
actually may be so it's just an example) and that $10.00 item becomes a
loss.
Yet companies like WestMarine still offer advice, assistance, do
research, work out better deals, and will send you to someone else if
they can't do the job, and they have never rushed me on the phone.
To keep it fair, the same applies to all the other companies I have
dealt with. I mention WestMarine because the original poster started
with them and because of my personal experience with them.
/s/Michael
Mark Armstrong
M. Therrien wrote:
> it must be noted
> that a significant portion of the cost of shipping out an item is
> related to order processing, not the actual freight charge. For
> example, if West Marine is paying order clerks, say, 14.00 per hour,
> and it takes 15 minutes to process an order, then the cost of
> the clerk alone is about 3.50 for your 10.00 book purchase.
Seems like that should be the cost of business which should be
covered by their markup.
>
> The moral of the story is to never place piddly small orders through
> mail-order catalogs-- and this holds true for more than just West
> Marine.
Or order your anchoring and chains from West Marine, electronics
from Defender.
I wondering if West Marine will de-emphasis (sp?) their mail order
business. A true mail order company does not have stores across the
country which are expensive to own and run. Mail order cost should be
lower than a store, with all these West Marine stores around, they
can't really offer mail order pricing. Having said that, I am very
glad they moved into our area, the other major local store has drop
their prices drasticly.
Mark
Ron Pearce
We are not alone in charging for shipping this way: I think you will
find most of the major non-marine retailers using a similar method.
--
Paul Curtis
In a world where there is no possibility that all of the murderers,
robbers, muggers and thieves could ever hope to do as much damage as the
incompetents of the world, I am a fairly regular shopper at West Marine
in Dana Point, California (PCH Store) and would like to share a couple
of thoughts on the business of costs and pricing.
In every instance where I have needed advice regarding a purchase, the
salesperson has either given me good advice (which ultimately saved me
both time and money) or has said candidly that they did not know the
answer and went to find someone who did. That is worth a LOT to me!
More than most of us realize.
I am sure that I have paid more then I should have for some things but
not by much. Frankly, my free time is more valuable to me than my
client paid time is to my clients and I charge a fairly hefty hourly
rate for what I do. That being the case, it is worth the few sheckles
to pay for what I can get my hands on now and be on my way. Further, I
don't mind paying a little extra for the opportunity to shop in a
pleasant environment that is well organized, well lighted, clean and
served by cheerful and knowledgable people.
I was in West Marine Tuesday evening. They close there at 8:00 PM. I
shopped until about 8:20 PM for the things I needed, got advice, placed
an order and paid for my toys. Not once did anyone complain that I was
holding them up or making them late. One of their sales people even
carried stuff out to the car for me because my arms were full.
As far as mail order is concerned, that is an invaluable service they
offer to people who would not otherwise have a choice or even an
opportunity to purchase many of the products. These include people in
rural areas and people in foreign countries. Having lived overseas I
know how spartan the supply can be. Having a telephone and a credit
card does you no good if there is no one to call or if you don't know
what you can order because you have no catalog available to you.
Finally, I ordered a spike end for a Forespar Whisker Pole about the
middle of February. Without going into a long story, after five weeks
and misdelivery of wrong parts on three different occasions, the store
manager ordered a brand new whisker pole and traded it for the one I had
just so he could get me out of the loop. He said he would then go deal
with Forespar to try to get the problem resolved. In my mind, this was
not really West Marine's fault in that they had ordered the part
directly from the Forespar catalog (I watched them do it twice) and had
been sent the wrong part each time. I don't know what an episode like
this is worth to you but it means a lot to me that an organization would
have the integrity and the customer service focus necessary to make that
kind of a decision on the spot and follow through with it immediately.
If you can count on the fact that you will get an honest answer to your
question (even if the answer is, "I don't know but let me find someone
who does" it seems to me that the perceived difference in pricing of
shipping (whether correct or not) is really rather trivial in a time
when we seem to be overcome by a rule based environment rather than a
value based environment in which the rules just naturally arise out of
the values under which we operate.
I can't speak to the issue of comparison with other retail or mail order
organizations in the marine supply business; I simply don't have a
strong frame of reference for it. However, I am sure there are a lot of
fine organizations in the marine supply business and I am equally sure
that there is room for all of the good ones in the trade.
To West Marine I say thank you for operating a business that is customer
focused and shares equally the concerns of the shareholders, employees
and vendors. That is truly the right way to run a good business!
(No, I dont' work for them, don't own any part of their business and
don't sell anything to them; I just appreciate them very much.)
--
Paul Curtis
S/V Holuke'a II
Dana Point, California
<><
skipper
From: Chuck Hawley <chuck...@earthlink.net>
Of West Marine - Responding to comments about their shipping policy
ripoff.
We are not alone in charging for shipping this way: I think you will
find most of the major non-marine retailers using a similar method.
--
Well then, I guess its up to public to find distributers that have fair
shipping policies. My experience with West was $12.00 for a couple 8'
battens with a quote of $30 or $40 for shipping. Nice business if you
can get it. Could it be that your new shipping policy has more to do
with trading on your prior reputation?
--
Skipper
skipper
May I provide that frame of referrence you say you don't have. I
recently purchased a GPS from Defender. Upon receipt of GPS I called
Defender and told them I did not like the unit. They offerred a
complete refund, no questions asked. I have found Defender to be
friendly, personable, to have the best prices by far (compare for
yourself), to have more than fair shipping policies, and to have a
larger selection than West. I will buy from both companies, but Wests
new shipping policy is a slap in the face of its customers.
--
Skipper
Michael
So where is this Defender outfit located? I haven't seen it out here so
I'm assuming it's east coast based, maybe Gulf coast? Haven't seen them
in Latitude 38 or 48 North and I just went through three Cruising
World's and didn't find them and they don't pop up on the search engine.
Thanks,
/s/Michael
Curtis Johnson
Paul,
I concur with everything you say (below), however, West Marine is taking a
new corporate path. I was in the Stockton, CA store before opening
(similar story to yours) and watched the employees removing name brand
items off the shelf. This was done IAW a corporate message the employee
was reading. They were to continue to offer to sell name brand items, but
they were to primarily display only West Marine brand items!!!
Now, that may be okay...But I have had experience with purchasing a West
Marine 'Wind Scoop' and it was garbage. The batten broke twice in one
month. West Marine was always courteous about exchanging the item (so
what?).
It is my experience that West Marine brand items are generally not as well
made as their name brand counterpart. I, for one, do not like the shift in
corporate policy.
Perhaps it is even related to the recent change in shipping costs. What I
do now, is shop more carefully. My confidence in West Marine has been
greatly shaken.
Good luck & Fair winds,
Curtis J.
Paul Curtis <PNCu...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<3343E0...@pacbell.net>...
Denis S/V Tayana
Try http:www.defenderus.com/
Louis B. Brydon
> So where is this Defender outfit located? I haven't seen it out here so
> I'm assuming it's east coast based, maybe Gulf coast? Haven't seen them
> in Latitude 38 or 48 North and I just went through three Cruising
> World's and didn't find them and they don't pop up on the search engine.
>
Try page 90 of the March Lat 38. 800/628-8225
or: http://www.defenderUS.com/
--
Louis B. Brydon
bryd...@ssvax1.ssd.loral.com
WA6OCZ
SEASTAR - Redwood City, Ca, Ba, USA, Terra, Sol, Milkyway
O-
skipper
Michael
Thanks, haven't got my "38" yet, it takes a few days longer for the
issue to be mailed up here and I'm to cheap to pay for the faster
service.
Joe Bedford
>find most of the major non-marine retailers using a similar method.
>--
>chuck...@earthlink.net | /|
>West Marine | / |
>http://www.westmarine.com |/ |
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>---------------------------------
I am sure you can justify any price increase by selecting a few remote
items, but how about a 2 lb. GPS one zone 15.95 or sailing gloves $7.00
or a foul weather jacket $13.00. I could go on and on. If you had a
inbalance fix the problem. Defender will kill you anyway.
Joe Bedford
In article <334451...@cdsnet.net>, Michael <or...@cdsnet.net> says:
>
>skipper wrote:
>>
>> May I provide that frame of referrence you say you don't have. I
>> recently purchased a GPS from Defender. Upon receipt of GPS I called
>> Defender and told them I did not like the unit. They offerred a
>> complete refund, no questions asked. I have found Defender to be
>> friendly, personable, to have the best prices by far (compare for
>> yourself), to have more than fair shipping policies, and to have a
>> larger selection than West. I will buy from both companies, but Wests
>> new shipping policy is a slap in the face of its customers.
>>
>> --
>> Skipper
>
>I'm assuming it's east coast based, maybe Gulf coast? Haven't seen them
>in Latitude 38 or 48 North and I just went through three Cruising
>World's and didn't find them and they don't pop up on the search engine.
>
>
>/s/Michael
Defender Industries Inc.
42 Great Neck Road
Waterford, CT 06385
ORDERS: 800 628-8225
860 701-3400
Customer Service: 800 435-7180
860 701-3434
Defender has been in the Marine busness 57 years